"FISTICUFFS ON EVEREST" - The Daily Fail at it again

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 561 - 580 of total 628 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 8, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
According to Alan Arnette, there have been multiple incidents on the Lhotse Face in recent days requiring 3 helicopter rescues.. apparently a U.S. Air Force elite climbing team was involved in some of the events... I wondered if anyone has more details...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 8, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
The Eiger Birds have been supplanted.

Oh the Collective International Shame.

Luxury suite in the Kline Kumbu Hotel?

The goings on of commercial outfits and their clients on Everest ius completely inconsequential.

Oh sahib, you sanctioned them all!


DMT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 8, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Price fixing is illegal under the Sherman Act, not sure about wage fixing, but it doesn't sound legal.

I don't believe the Sherman act is operative outside the US.........
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 8, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
OK, let's see the fact.
Everest has two casualties this year:
DaRita Sherpa (perished May 5 - cardiac arrest)
Mingma Sherpa (April 7) - I think you mean him
According to the report he slipped into a crevasse (http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/sherpa-killed-in-khumbu-icefall);
What is to do with this case?

ITS A DANGEROUS PLACE. How many have died in the last decade climbing El Cap?

I do not understand how possible to climb on this face for literally hundreds if such a high risk is to bomb others with ice chunks?

It would do you some good to DO some ice/snow climbing, before commenting on it. You would know that when the route is confined to one narrow area, the loose stuff is knocked off, and the snow is compacted, making is MUCH MUCH safer for people to ascend/descend single file.

Try it some time.

Actually you are making stuff up when you state "everyone else on the mountain". Please check the link here (http://altitudepakistan.blogspot.hu/2013/04/spring-2013-list-of-mountaineering.html); and find that there are other teams which are planning and doing a little bit more than pushing the jumars up for Everest and Lhotse.
But still if everyone else would be doing the same still would not mean that the only exception should adhere the _internal_ rules of the other expeditions. Or maybe the permits are different? This part was not addressed by you...

They were not INTERNAL RULES, don't you Hungarians know how to read? They were rules agreed to by the entire climbing community! Why were the three the ONLY ONES up on the face? Why did the Russians turn around?

Next time I'm in Hungary, climbing on a route behind you, I'll just cut your rope in half, because I need some accessory cord..AND THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST DOING THAT. And because your backward country is just that, get the hell out of my way......(irony intended)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 8, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Ken, is this another rhetorical question posed as a statement ?

Are you waiting in a pounce position for the unwary ?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 8, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
Jim, just responding to the attacks on my position.....

But more and more, it seems that I'm just responding to trolls, Hungarian or not......
amax

Trad climber
san diego
May 8, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
Burch3y's post sums it up: two climbing styles reflecting two very different philosophies are rarely mixed ... :)

Jan: while I appreciate your attempts to provide a balanced and insightful opinion, I am afraid you fail to clearly acknowledge that the underlying reasons for this conflict go far beyond the cultural differences between Sherpas and westerners. If that was indeed the case, why do several western guides of COMMERCIAL expeditions sided with attackers and even made statements that appear to be false by multiple accounts? In fact, many of your earlier posts quote these statements, essentially misrepresenting the reality. One conclusion that can be drawn from these posts is that Moro and Co are unappreciative je**s who took advantage of Sherpa's work low on the mountain and ignored the rules up high. What rules have they broken? Seriously, should we ban people from soloing because they may fall on someone below? How ridiculous is that? I could not disagree more that those climbing in a good style should stay off the mountain simply because there is an attempt to establish a safe highway for clients. Besides, they DID stay away as much as they could.
And for your comments that these guys should have climbed something else and off season, somehow I find it hard to believe that you are unaware of their winter accomplishments on 8000M peaks and other impressive records ... :)

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 8, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Who's to say the logistical and organization infrastructure exists to allow Sherpas to completely take over the guiding business? Would the clients who currently pay the sorts of fees that are charged now do so if the logistics and organization currently handed by Himex, IMG, etc. became a nightmare?


A significant segment of the twenty-nine permitted 2013 Everest expeditions are managed and owned in-country. Arun, Asian Trekking, Cho Oyu Trekking, Himalayan Ascents, Monterosa, Rolwaling and others are Nepali-owned.

One could wonder...would Nepali businessmen and their government confederates be even more resistant to the Sherpa acquiring control of the guiding industry than western interests have? Would they exploit and profit by Sherpa toil as Westerners have done...even to the extent of Sherpa looking back to the present era as the halycon days of guiding ??

Is that well-grounded concern, Jan ?
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
May 8, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
Kolos, orangesporanges and Jan....thanks for your insight and wisdom on this story.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 8, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
amax - Seriously, should we ban people from soloing because they may fall on someone below?

We? I think the days of we are over. Do you really think it is still up to we to decide what stays and what goes, anymore?

Look at it this way; We takes a vote and let's say it's unanimous (whatever we are voting on, but for the sake of this discussion, lets say it's soloing).

We says soloing will be allowed. Then notify Ueli, et al! Say something like this, "No worries bro, we voted on it, and you can solo the yak route to your hearts content."

I'm pretty sure that Ueli will respond to the tune of something like this, "We? We voted on it? WHO THE F*#K IS WE?"

Some peeps on this forum seem to be in denial, or something. Maybe they should watch the Godfather movie again. Because ya don't seem to be getting it.

Whisper this into the ear of the person sitting on your right and person sitting on your left, There's a new boss, and he's not the same as the old boss. ...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 8, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
A Sherpa friend from Khumbu (Namche) who lives in Vancouver comments that most of what we've heard so far about what happened is from westerners. For technological, logistical, economic and cultural reasons we've heard much less about the other sides of the story. As has been observed, it's usually a mistake to argue with people who buy their ink by the barrel.

It seems likely that most of those who were involved now regret it, as if nothing else there seems to have been profound miscommunication.

Jan: Tried to send a PM, but didn't get through.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 8, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
if i was Ueli, et al, and i really had any aspirations of ever soloing, or whatever, that
route again, i would, umm, well, pretty self explanatory i suppose, eh? ...
raymond phule

climber
May 8, 2013 - 11:58pm PT

They were not INTERNAL RULES, don't you Hungarians know how to read? They were rules agreed to by the entire climbing community!

My guess is that this is also one of your many lies but you can of course disprove it by giving a direct quote from a reliable source.

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 9, 2013 - 05:08am PT
If amax or anyone else will check post # 28 on this thread you will note that I early on brought up the issue of the commercial interests of both guide services and Sherpas and that they worked together.

As for banning soloists, that has been done to building climbers and can be done anywhere else that the officials in charge choose to do it. I'm pretty sure, whether everyone agrees or not, the Nepalese government will come down on the side of the most people satisfied and the most money made and that will not favor soloists.

Of course I am familiar with the climbing records of the three involved. That's exactly why I wondered about them being on the cargo route in the high season.

Some people would like to deny that culture had anything to do with this but it did - on both sides. To defend the competitive super achiever and lone individualist against the group is very western. To defend the interests of group survival against rebelllious individuals is very eastern. To deny there are any cultural differences involved is very American. I was taught in school that "people everywhere are just alike", which obviously isn't true but is a good national mythology for an immigrant nation.

As for Jennie's concerns that Nepalese might be more exploitative than westerners, that would probably take the form of corruption if it did, and the attempt to collect extra fees and higher percentages of profits and would more likely come from government officials. There are non Sherpa Nepalese business investors in some of the trekking and climbing groups managed by Sherpas. Since lowland Nepalis do not like cold and altitude however, they're content to collect profits and leave the rest to the Sherpas. Usually their role is to deal with the Nepalese bureaucrats since they have connections and speak Nepalese better and in return they get a salary and sometimes a share of the profits.

At this point in time, most Nepalese regard the Sherpas as a kind of living national treasure, a concept they are aware of thanks to the Japanese aid programs and influence in Nepal. Some Sherpa heros have received state funerals in the recent past and Sherpa customs like presenting white scarves have been adopted by many non Sherpas in Nepal as have certain Sherpa foods. They have gone from a discriminated against minority to national cultural symbols in only 40 years.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 9, 2013 - 07:11am PT
Thanks, I appreciate your comments, Jan...



Great to see Anders, back!
Burch3y

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 9, 2013 - 08:28am PT


Stumbled on this goofy reality show about some Brits climbing the West Ridge of Everest. It's pretty entertaining - I enjoy accents, and they throw around the F-bomb like champions.

If you go to minute 14, the Sherpas bailed out of high camp and then lied about it to the Brits on their way back down to base camp. No troll - I was waiting for someone to come on after the scolding and explain that the reason they did this was due to all the terrible treatment that the Westerners had given them over the years.

Incidentally, they make a claim in the show that Sherpas earn up to 600 dollars a day. I don't know how accurate that is, but that doesn't sound so terrible to me.

I was cracking up, when they British guy started giving them a hard time about lying, I started looking around the tent to make sure there were no rocks to grab.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
May 9, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Kangschung face Mt Everest
Kangschung face Mt Everest
Credit: Stewart Johnson
people
dont really climb on this side ....
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 9, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Burch3y, listen up...

Evidently they forgot to bring their whips, eh? ;-/

After seven grueling days of humping loads at altitude...

Dumb F*#k, "Why did they come down?"

DUH! F*#KING, DUH!!

Sherpa (laison, or whatever), "They we're tired. They have been carrying loads for 7 days!"

Sherpa, "Wake up, wake up. Carry, loads. Carry loads."

Dumb F*#k, "You have to talk to the rope leader. You just can't come down." ...

Umm...! Dunno, but, sounds to me as if their plan didn't include any rest days for the Sherpa. They shouldn't have had to ask for one, one should have been allotted.I wonder if they (limey climbers) were taking any rest days by rotating, switching leads. Or were they setting an example/standard and (being EXTREMELY DUMB F*#KS) and pushing it for seven days straight with out coming down and resting?

Answer, F*#K NO!

Plus, 'Dumb F*#k' was majorly talking down to them, imo, like he was talking to an 8 year old, "You've got to talk to the rope leader." - BTW, i would have clocked the d00d right there (wouldn't have wasted any time looking around for stones).

Because, first of all, it should be obvious that they needed a rest day after seven (7) fooking (said with a limey accent) days of humping loads at altitude!

There is something about that 7th day. "On the 7th day He rested."

Didn't fooking (limey accent) need to rest, because He's GOD!!

He did so to set an example. The rest day was meant for not only man, but also for beasts of burden (it states that in the OT). Because even fooking (limey accent) MULES need to rest sooner or later.

Sheesh, what a joke. Pathetic, to say the least!
coz

Gym climber
Belmont
May 9, 2013 - 10:33am PT
How about banning guiding on Everest,

Rule 1, no fixed lines..

Rule 2, no sucking "O"

That should clear the herds...

Jan, as much respect as I have for you, people are the same all over the world. They have different values and tradition, but the core human animal is the same, IMHO.

The three elite and the head sherpa are just boys having a pissing contest. The clash of the ego's, so to speak. This whole drama is just stupid and over analyzed.

Simply, if the three super-stars respected the work and the days the work was being done, and didn't ignore everyone, solo and crampon through their lines, none of this would have happen, end of story.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 9, 2013 - 10:36am PT
It really is that simple.

DMT
Messages 561 - 580 of total 628 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews