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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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May 10, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
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Dogs are cool. I take it on a case by case basis. Mostly, its the humans that suck. Having said that, I've been attacked before and am not a fan of the more aggressive breeds. Now a crag Newfie would be cool though. He could carry my stuff!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 10, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
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This is a fantasy planted in their head by their master, the dog.
Some weird things going on no doubt, I wonder what the back-story is?
Most dog owners seem to act as though everyone loves their dog
I know everyone doesn't love my dog, but I'm not going to confine my dog to a cage in my yard because some people are afraid of or dislike dogs.
Most dog owners I see hold their dogs back on a leash in public when the dog tries to approach me, then I ask can I pet your dog, and hold out a fist for them to sniff. Dogs know I'm a dog person, even dogs that I've been told don't like any men. Dogs can sense/smell fear and loathing. Probably why they don't like some people.
the fact that Fatal pitt bull attacks are over 60% of all fatal attacks and pitts are only 5% of the dog population seems to be a no brainer indicator that the breed is dangerous. the fact that pitt bull owners are in denial about this is also a no brainer....
So you must believe that since the majority of murders in the US are committed by African Americans and they are a minority of the population that they are dangerous? There's no other factors at play?
Pit bulls ARE more dangerous because they are much more powerful than most breeds, but they actually test above average for temperament and are no more likely to bite than other breeds. They can kill when they do bite so they require responsible owners, but unfortunately many of the people attracted to a "dangerous" looking dog are the exact type of people who aren't responsible enough to own them.
I was bit by two dogs when I was young. A german shepherd from a neighbor's house was loose (owners fault) and in front of my friend's house. I went to pet it too quickly scared it and it bit my hand (my fault for approaching, but a dog like that should never have been out loose). And once on my paper route a dog came running out and bit my ass while I was riding my bike past it's house (owner severely at fault for allowing a dog like that to be loose). But I've had thousands of interactions with other dogs, most friendly and a handful I could tell the dog didn't want to be approached so I left it alone.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 10, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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Whatever the large popular breed has been at the time is the one demonized, it goes back decades.
Again I have no problem with someone saying a pit bull or other dog is dangerous because of it's size, but I can't let it go when someone claims they are more likely to bite.
I just remembered two more dog bites. My mother in laws little mixed breed, I was petting it on the head, moved to it's stomach and it bit, but that dog has the worst personality of any dog I've ever spent much time around. If I owned that little bastard it would sit in a kennel in my yard most of the time. And a friend's little dog years ago that bit me when I walked into his backyard, so I gave it a good kick as a warning to stay the hell away from me.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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May 10, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
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My buddy came and stayed with me last weekend. He brought his two dogs. One, a little terrier named Betty, had lived here before. The other, a two year old pit named Frank, hadn't.
Keep in mind that my four year old lab Tioga still has his balls.
They were thick as thieves! Running, playing tug of war (Frank always wins), playing with the neighbors six year old daughter, they were all good. Frank may be dumb, bit he sure as hell isn't aggressive. Both my dogs 'had their way' with him. He took the humping like a champ!
Pits are an inappropriately blacklisted breed. 99% of the time, it's the owner and not the dog that creates problems through improper training.
That said, I'd never take Frank climbing. He just wants to run around and that would piss certain people off.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 10, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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Of the 20 or so pibbles I've had sent substantial time with over the last 5 or so years, there is only one that is the slightest bit aggressive... as in it barks at new arrivals, but spends the rest of the time running around and playing with the kids. My brother's kids LOVED my pibble.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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May 10, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
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If you like dogs, adopt one.
So many need homes and they are not all that difficult.
You just need an accepting attitude and a whisker of discipline.
My dogs have made me a better, more rational, understanding person.
Go for it. You won't regret it.
Lincoln is nine now, and it feels like yesterday when I picked him up from the shelter.
Tioga is four, and sometimes acts like he's a puppy.
I don't care though, I love them like they were blood relatives.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 10, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
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The problem always arises when a dog owner decides what others should think about, feel about, and how they should act around their dogs. And if they don't feel the same way as the dog owner, the fault lies entirely with the dog hater - which is not the dog owner's fault.
In fact, once a dog's rights are hoisted alongside those of people, and people are expected to tolerate and respect the dog over their own feelings and dispositions, we have a clusterf*#k every time. A certain kind of person will honor their dogs above human beings, and there is no reasoning with these folks since the "problem" rests with every one else.
That's why the standard thinking is the very few truly bellicose or belligerent dog owners out there are often times people with personality disorders, and you'll get nowhere with them owing to inflexible thinking. They simply are right and the rest or "you" can eat sh#t and die.
Extreme, but we've all seen it in shades and degrees and it's ugly.
JL
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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May 10, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
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The problem always arises when a dog owner decides what others should think about, feel about, and how they should act around their dogs.
Well, no. The problem SOMETIMES arises when a dog hater decides that a dog is a problem even though the dog has not done anything more significant than a person might have done.
Dave
P.S. Saying "always" is a sure way to get your argument condemned. You would not say "always" when talking about climbing issues. Why do it when talking about stuff you know less about?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 10, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
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We rescued 3 of our last 4 dogs. And they all happened to be big "pit bull" types dogs. Really though as far as I can tell two are American Bulldogs (Scott type) and one is perhaps a Rottweiler/Pitbull mix. We end up with them because there are MANY of these dogs abandoned (popular / attract bad owners) and there aren't enough good homes for them.
Locker, be careful with your dog. I agree that any dog (and to a lesser extent any human) could snap and do something unpredictable, but a dog with a tough past is far more likely to have a problem.
I disagree that it's owners who cause all the problems. I think it's just as much nature vs. nurture. Dogs are born with an individual personality, just like people. Even siblings can be totally different. How they are trained has a lot to do with it, but some dogs are skittish and/or unpredictable and you can help but not change them. But someone could screw up a good dog by abusing it.
Our Rotty/pitbull is a sweetheart, BUT when we first rescued him he was skittish. He chases our cat and chickens. He barks when someone walks up the driveway. He's an outdoor dog. I'd only take him climbing to an obscure area where I wouldn't see anyone. In fact I've never taken him to the crag, he's been camping, but mostly stays at home.
The current American Bulldog is a 80 pound lap dog (in his mind). He doesn't chase the chickens, the cat comes up and sniffs him because he knows he can trust him. He has attacked the Rotty/pit because that's what dogs do, they establish dominance in the pack. Once the Rotty/pit submitted they got along fine.
When I take the AB out I'm very aware of people's reactions to him. Most people are afraid and I don't blame them and I keep him away from anyone who doesn't express an interest. But once a dog person approaches him they can tell he's the sweetest, most loving dog you could imagine.
I think like so many situations it's the bad apples that ruin it for everyone. Climbers who leave trash or steal. Off roaders who tear up a virgin hillside. Smokers who stand in doorways so you have to breath their smoke or who litter their butts.
The majority of dogs I've seen at the crags were well behaved and/or well controlled, but there's been a handful of times a dog has caused a problem, often when left alone while the climber does a multi-pitch, and those are the dicks that will get dogs banned or piss other people off.
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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May 10, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
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Hey...
I bring my dog, I keep her usually tied up unless there are other free roaming dogs. She usually is right next to me. I agree that my dog should not be in your stuff, on your rope, etc. She should be only messing with my stuff. If she goes there... I take her away, I do apologies and make sure she can't do it again.
I ask people to speak up if they don't want her around, we "the dog and I" can go elsewhere. Plus work with me... I will work with you. If you ask in a kind manner, I will respond in kind, and I will correct things quickly. Cuss me out, throw rocks at us, etc. I'm not so willing or nice. Not because my dog has more rights than you, but because as a human I don't like being attacked and letting anyone bully me out. Now that makes me just want to stick it to you.
Again, I'm human...
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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May 11, 2013 - 12:45am PT
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LOL, actually he keeps me tied on a short leash. What do you think the kid is for? Giggling...
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 17, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
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Thought this article might be of interest.
Next week is National Dog Bite Prevention Week, and health care specialists, veterinarians and the insurance industry are trying to get out the word about reducing dog bite incidents this year.
In 2011, about 70 million dogs were living in U.S. households, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association, down from about 72 million in 2006. That means 36% of the population has canine companionship.
The downside to that statistic is the more than 4.7 million dog bites reported each year. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says 800,000 Americans seek medical attentional annually for dog bites. Of those injuries, nearly half require emergency room treatment. Dog bite rates are highest among children ages 5 to 9, and related fatalities average 16 a year.
Along with any physical and emotional damage, these incidents have financial costs. The Insurance Information Institute estimates that insurers paid out nearly $489 million in dog bite claims last year. Giant insurer State Farm says it dealt with 3,670 dog bite claims in 2012, paying out more than $108 million on them.
State Farm recently released a list of the top 10 states for dog bite claims in 2012:
State
Number of claims
Amount paid (est.)
1. California
451
$17.1 million
2. Illinois
337
$9.0 million
3. Texas
236
$4.3 million
4. Ohio
235
$5.0 million
5. Pennsylvania
165
$4.5 million
6. Michigan
151
$4.6 million
7. Indiana
148
$2.7 million
8. Florida
123
$7.1 million
9. Georgia
121
$3.3 million
10. New York
116
$6.4 million
Laws can vary regarding dog bites. Some states have what is known as the one free bite rule. That is, if a dog bites and injures someone -- and has never done so before -- the owner isn't liable for those injuries.
According to the Dog Bite Law website, the rationale behind the one-bite rule "was that domestic animals by definition were not injurious, and therefore liability could be predicated only on the defendant's knowledge that a particular animal had a propensity to behave in manner that was injurious to humans."
Most general liability provisions in a homeowners insurance policy will cover the owner for dog bites. However, some dogs can be excluded, according to San Diego law firm Laureti & Associates, if the dog "is a breed known to be, or (has) the propensity to be, dangerous."
State Farm says it doesn't refuse insurance based on the breed of dog a customer owns because "under the right circumstances, any dog might bite."
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 17, 2013 - 09:12pm PT
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what an awesome way to make some extra cash for retirement! especially if it's one of those police dogs hangin out the winda.
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McCfly
climber
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May 17, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
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Are we really back at this again. Clearly we can all find something a bit more creative to bitch about.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 17, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
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Ah yes-----eternal dualities.
Yen/Yang
Dogs/No Dogs
Bolts/No bolts
drunk/sober (it is Friday night!)
breasts/no breasts
Republicans/Democrats
This thread is mainstream with much of what is discussed here.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 17, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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except you probably won't have any crazee women complaining about an anti pooch thread
I'm gunna git it fer that one! lol
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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May 21, 2013 - 09:46am PT
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You can trust my judgement bring my dogs to the crags. You are already trusting my judgement on my bolts and anchors. Can't speak for others.
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thirsty
climber
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May 21, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
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Tradman is from New England? Of course. Hope he stays there.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 21, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
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Can I bring my lamb to the crag? She doesn't bite nothin' but grass.
I know Fritz and most other Idahoans and Wyomians would approve.
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