Dogs at the crag


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Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:49am PT

But then again there are canines that are perfect "Crag Dogs" ...

This is true. Rare, from what I've seen, but they exist.

^^^ Anyone who knows or has met my Goldie girl knows that to be a troofatude.

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Now taking dogs to the pool is a different story.

Trad climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:29am PT
You know the dog feels like a total ass and his tummy hurts.

I hate that.
the Fet

Apr 25, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
I am a dog owner who believes that dogs have no place at the crags. It's kinda like lighting up a cigarette in a non smoking area. I'm also a non-smoker, and am offended my someone smoking nearby, but am normally too polite to tell them to Fuk off! Dog owners sometimes think everybody loves MY dog. Leave 'em at home. If bringing a dog to the crag offends just ONE person, that's too many.

I knew this would degenerate into a standard dogs at the crag thread, but... must... speak... up.

I am a dog owner. About 1/2 of the dogs I've owned I'd bring to the crags (but I'd never leave them alone and do a multi-pitch) and 1/2 I'd leave at home. Only one would I let off leash at times, and I'd put him back on leash if I saw anyone offended by that. The ones I bring belong at the crags IMO.

Some crags are no dog areas, some allow dogs, so smokers in a non-smoking area isn't a good analogy. At crags where dogs are allowed it IS similar to smokers there. I'd rather not see smokers, but I'm not so self centered as to think, "I think smoking is lame so I don't want to even see them". They have the right to smoke in a smoking area (e.g an outdoor crag). However if a smoker's smoke gets in my face (or a dog gets in your stuff) or a smoker litters their butts (or a dog owner leaves a dog poop), then sure you have the right to be pissed because your experience is being negatively effected. And I can and have said things in those situations. Typically though the people who do that kind of thing don't care.

So people can claim all they want about how dogs don't belong at the crags, but I don't really care, my dog's and my right to be there without causing any problems is greater than their right to simply be free of seeing a dog.

I don't think everybody likes even my most well behaved dog. I can see their expressions and body language. I just don't really care if someone has a problem with something that shouldn't bother them.

In my experience 1-2 dogs out of 10 cause a problem, but even that is way too much. But at the Leap where people leave dogs alone it's more like 50% are a problem.

So it sucks that there's so many owners letting their dogs cause problems, but I'm not going to let that screw up what I want to do when I 'play by the rules'.

BTW at Auburn as mentioned the majority of dogs there aren't even with climbers so even if no climbers brought dogs you'd have to deal with them anyway.

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Do you smoke pot, at the crag?
Do you drink alcohol at the crag?
Do you play music without using personal earphones(that don't let the sound spill over to be heard by others) at the crag?
Do you allow your children to be freewheeling and have running around at the crag? If your child is an infant, have you recently brought that child into an are where there was even the most remote possibility of something falling from above and taking them out in the blink of an eye?
Have you brought your antagonistic relationship; the one in which you find yourselves bickering regardless of the fact others are witnessing it, to the crag?
Have you screamed like a two-year old having a tantrum when you can't pull the crux on a route you are redpointing?
Have you brought a bevy of others who barely climb to the crag and hung topropes, and then set up for a day of picnicking and (very little actual) climbing at the crag?

i can honestly say i do not do any of that sh#t. as for beer bottles at the crag 99% of the beer bottles and cans i pick up are from day hikers not climbers.

Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
Never met a dog at the crag I didn't like.

Bring em!

The Granite State.
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
I have two dogs.

One, I would never think of bringing, he'd be a PITA and I'd have to keep an eye on him.

The other, I'd never think of leaving at home. He knows the deal. He may cruise around and wag his tail at others, and approach if it seems wanted. Doesn't chase things. Sits at the base of multi pitch climbs waiting for me. I don't have to watch him closely, he's nine and has been climbing with me since I got him at eight weeks.

So, there's no cut and dry answer. It's like humans, some you don't want to be associated with at the crag. Others make you look good just for being there with them.


Edit; one thing I taught my older dog from the get-go was the command 'Self Entertain'. If he's harassing me to play stick or ball with him and I'm not into it, I tell him in a stern voice to self entertain. No kidding, he doesn't take it as a command to go away, he will take his stick or ball to the top of an incline and nudge it downhill with his nose, jump on it, chew it, and repeat. He will do this every time I tell him.

It's a good command to teach your dog, though many dogs may lack the brains to learn it.
the Fet

Apr 25, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Brandon are you sure he sits there patiently? You aren't there. A couple times I've seen dogs completely change personality once their owners were out if sight. When the owners returned it was all tail wagging and happy. When I told the owners this they doubted me. But when I told one of them a guy was throwing rocks at his dog because it was being aggressive/territorial he believed me.

I'd suggest spying on your dog from a distance to make sure and keep in mind some
Asshole may attack or walk off with your dog.

The Granite State.
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Indeed. I spied on him quite a few times before I trusted him unsupervised. I found that he would wander up to 20 meters but not cause any trouble. That said, I only leave him alone unleashed for long periods when appropriate. If it's a multi pitch crag with a bunch of other parties, I won't bring him.

Lost but still on lead
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
There ya go.

If you wanna change the World, look in the mirror.

... If you see somebody who might be messing with my dog for no good reason at a crag wheew I have a right to have dogs, wave bye-bye, im gonna change your face. The land is not "public property". It belongs to the State or the Fed, they call the rules and don't go enforcing anything you got no opinion to. I'll deal with the poo, either way, sh#t gets eaten by something, dogsit is high in protien and corn pretty much decomposes real quick, overall. Your entire world is built on sh#t, dinosaur sh#t, horsesh#t, all soil is sh#t mixed with rocks, you eat sh#t if you eat at all. If you have a particular area thats bad, bone up and do a few pickups or burials, or kick it down to the marmots along the bank after its a few days old, if you can find it at all.

Its the real world. Play cards or make some dip. Is it your deal? Your turn to get the beer for sure.

In Mexico I seen guys from Galveston had huge doberman dogs guarding their pickup. I didn't surf their breakers, or whatever. If somebody is really doing stupid stuff, or has a bigass obnoxious dog, thats a safety valve and a damn sweet warning: Stay away. They aren't looking for new friends.

... its easier to blow away than get blown away.

Apr 25, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
Goldie looks like a great companion and friend Philo.

But as a belayer, I'd train her to stay awake at least:-) Maybe share a little AM coffee in the dog bowl? LOL

Apr 25, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
Kab, what About wolves at the crag?

Lost but still on lead
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
wolves are allowed, currently. I think its a damn stupid idea, but there it is, I didn't get to decide.

However, if they attack domestic stock or people, become a nuisance or a danger, they may be killed immediately. And if you contact a wolf, go to a doctor immediately, many of these guys came infected with a new parasite we are not previously used to.

Many eastern states are passing laws against allowing "wolf-reintroduction" in their states, even though many suitable candidate areas exist. And there seems to be a growing resistance in other places as well. Like in california, which is where we are talking about, right?
The Warbler

the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
Dogs lick ballz

Don't try to tell me they don't

Unless of course they're a B!TCH

Jus messin wid you dog lubbers

Ice climber
soewhere over the rainbow....
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:11pm PT

youd lick yur balls if you cud too!!

Don't act like just cuz my dog can it's gross all the sudden...
Betty Uno

Mountain climber
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:20pm PT

That is disgusting, the part about the dog ripping up the goslings.

Perhaps next time you could take videos of the dog, and the dead young birds, and the guy saying "It's no big deal," and post it on youtube and elsewhere.

I say next time, because right now, as we speak, some other "nature lover" is letting his dog do the same thing, and it's spring, nesting season.

It used to be people respected spring and did not hunt or otherwise disturb the critters raising their young.

I know the one time I said to a guy standing directly under a sign saying "PLEASE KEEP YOUR DOG ON A LEASH IN THIS WILD LIFE PRESERVE" that he should, indeed, keep his dog on a leash, he snarled back; "What are you? The dog police?"

Believe me I give not one sh#t, so to speak, about dog sh#t. Just don't try to put it in my compost pile is all I ask. Yes, I have met someone so dumb they thought dog sh#t went in a compost pile for a vegetable garden, which is why I mention it. They ARGUED with me about it. LOL.

What I have seen in the spring, is that a dog turned loose can hunt out nests and young things and decimate them in very rapid order.

Then after the "fun romp" the owner puts the dog on the leash for the rest of the day, and thinks nothing of it.

Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?

Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Ok. I'm here to have my limbs ripped off and my dog killed: I am the dog owner in question.
Here is the story and you can pass you comments as you feel fit.
I would start by saying that I have climbed well over 1000 days and 3/4 of those with one of 2 dogs that I have had over a 28 year climbing period. I have never in many hundreds of days had a dog eat any live animal or bird or bite any person. Not even a squirrel or mouse. Nothing. With this in mind I brought my family dog (who lives with 3 small kids)and let him kick around while I climbed. What I have done so many times. I heard all the noise from the geese but I kept looking over and could not see anything and figured it was mating season or something? A little later I saw two small chicks tumble down the hill side and then saw my dog on a ledge where they had come from. I got him immediately under control and watched what happened. The parents guided them up the hill and out of sight. I considered it a close shave and tied him up. Later I ran down to use the head and took him with me under voice control thinking all was as well as it could be. When I came back up the guy who started the thread and his 2 friends told me all was not well and he had killed 4 chicks. He was furious (I don't blame him). I went and inspected the carnage and found 2 dead chicks. I tied him up. At that point there was not much else to be done. I suppose I could have left but other than a token of apology it would not have changed anything. I finished the day of climbing. My dog sat at the base in the sun but that was no big deal. he's sat in the sun at rock bases his whole life.
I feel terrible because:
I was responsible for my dog killing wildlife.
The incident was very upsetting to other people there.
It's the kind of incident that could screw up access if the management find out about it.
I spoke at length with the CRAGS representative. For me it is a regrettable live and learn incident the likes of which has never happened before. The Quarry is a different situation than other locations with geese nesting all over and apparently in pretty easy to access spots. I've seen a number of dogs of climbers and hikers off leash and never thought much of it until now. Personally, if he can't run around and play there is no point bringing him so he can stay at home. Most of my climbing is at empty crags middle of the week and he usually the only dog around and just kicks back.
There are a lot of people who dislike any dogs at the crag and that's fine to hold that view. I don't like it myself when there are a bunch of dogs at a small crag like Gold Wall, but most of the time it's a very mellow scene with a friend and a dog and it's been that way for years and probably will be in the future. I spend a lot of time in the back country running at dusk and he keeps the mountain lion's at bay.
Anyway, it's a bummer all round but not one that will be repeated by me at least

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
Credit: drljefe

How about dogs on top of the crag?
My dog met me at the top of a six pitch route a few weekends ago.
Yes, I leave her at the base. She has proven to not be a nuisance.

If others don't want to see a dog out at the "crag", fine.
We have the right to be there just like you have the right to do what you want.
If it bums your trip, split. When a loud group shows up, or any number of things I don't like when I'm out climbing, I split.
Easy as that.

the Fet

Apr 25, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Very brave post Aidan. It's very clear you regret it, but you may still want to offer a clear apology to the OP, etc.

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
Not so easy when the dog is a big husky threatening to rip my face off because his slave human left packs at the base of the climb next to my pack which i can not retrieve without risking bodily harm....

manzanita man

Social climber
somerset, ca.
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
i bring my dog climbing all the time but since i only climb 5.4, im never around any REAL climbers.:]
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