Dogs at the crag

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Stoney007247

Trad climber
Cordelia
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
I was climbing at the Auburn Quarry on Saturday and Sunday this past weekend. I must say that place has a lot of potential as soon as the rock quality improves and the loose rock is cleared from the walls.

Saturday was a great day, but when I arrived Sunday a Subaru pulls right up to the Memorial rock and 7 people and their dog get out. I really didnít care about the dog. If they are on a leash or VERY well mannered itís not a big deal. Well, there were a lot of Canadian geese there and that is exactly where the dog went straight to. As the owner was climbing and not watching his dog it found the nest of the geese and proceeded to maul and kill 4 geese goslings in a nest and basically leave bird parts all over the place. I was so pissed at this jacka$$ I was seeing red. When I confronted him he just told me it was no big deal.

I really didnít know what to do at the time. The guy refused to leave and just chained his dog up to a tree in the sun as he and his partner flailed on the multipitch in the back wall for like 3 hours for just 2 pitches. What would be the right thing to do at the time? Seeing this place is new and not fully set up yet I would hate to see a$$holes like this ruin it for the rest of us. Really, if you canít watch or control your dog leave it at home!

Comments on what I should have done at the time would be nice. I did look for a ranger, but none were to be found the entire day.

Thanks,

Stoney
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:37pm PT

One of my FAVORITE subjects!!!...


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!...




EDITED:


LEAVE THE DOGS AT HOME!!!...


;-)

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
wow, total jackwagon dog owner move

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:41pm PT

Other than TRYING to "take the law into your own hands" there probably wasn't really MUCH else you could do, that you didn't do...

You could have gotten in a fight over it...(What GOOD would that have done???)...

You could have left... (But you wanted to CLIMB)...

I think you did what you could...




EDITED:


Another option...

You could have THANKED him for the GOOSE dinner???...

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
You can drive up to that crag?
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
It's a state park. Take down information and call ranger.
Park Office (530) 885-4527

or call 911

They are very responsive to this sort of thing.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
"You can drive up to that crag?"

No you cannot. They were probably the volunteers from CRAGS.......
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Unfortunately that kind of behavior can potentially affect everyone. In the minds of the park officials who may not be overjoyed at having climbers in the midst of their park where they are responsible for ensuring the resource is protevted and all people get along, this type of incident can lead to restrictions and closures.

Speak up - heck yes. I'd rather have one climber pissed at me than have one less crag to climb at.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 23, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
The owner sounds petty aloof. The dog though, must have been embarrassed.

It had egg on it's face.
Stoney007247

Trad climber
Cordelia
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Thanks for the number, Labrat. I will have it for next time. All I could think of doing was cracking him in his jaw. But, that wouldn't have solved anything.

You're right Locker! Leave your dogs at home!
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
me?
i would have (after moving my vehicle so's no
traceable record existed of my existence)
mauled the f*#king dog to death and then spread it's
limbs on and around the glossy pack of it's owner.

evolutionary privilege can be created, but not destroyed.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Yep, I agree, turn them in . . .

My dog would be lucky to survive such an incident . . .
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
I would have meekly complained and then posted about it later.

This drive-up access, now that would have been awesome.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:09pm PT


Sort of a THREAD DRIFT:

Some years back these people approached our group with their dog and ASKED if ANYONE minded the pooch being present...

I IMMEDIATELY spoke up and said, "Hell yes, I mind" (the dog was actually taking a sh!t real close to our stuff while we were talking but no one knew it at the time)...

The people were taken back some and obviously didn't expect that answer...

I elaborated with, "And look at your fuking dog now over there taking a sh!t near our stuff"...

They LEFT the area...

QUICKLY...(EDITED: To their credit, they took the dogsh!t with them)...





Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
I would have ripped your baby limb from limb, took a crap on it, and then flung it at you while you climbed if you so much as sneered at my dog.

I would have... that's an awesome game!
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
The reason I know they respond quickly to this type of thing is below.

I walked with two dogs on the trail underneath the Foresthill bridge to Lake Clementine a week or so ago. The rangers were questioning me and my girlfriend if we had seen people with three pit bull type dogs that were threatening people.

Add killing wildlife and they will be all over it!
Erik
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Yes most likely a Crags volunteer since they were able to drive up. How LAME!

You should contact Crags and let them know what happened: http://norcalcrags.org/contact/

Hopefully they will revoke these folks volunteer status. If they were not volunteers Crags will want to know about someone else driving in anyway.

It's actually good you didn't find a ranger because this would have given all climbers (and responsible dog owners) a bad name. Better for Crags to settle this internally.

You don't just let your dog run unleashed.
You don't climb multi-pitch and leave your dog unattended.

EDIT TO ADD:

I wouldn't call the rangers unless the people were being threatening to me. As mentioned it will bring a bad light and access for all climbers could be threatened. Thanks idiots for letting your dog run wild.

A couple more points:

Canadian Geese are an invasive species. They push out native species and overpopulate. As a matter of fact I wish my dog would chase the damn things away from my pond so we'd get more ducks, egrets, herons, etc. They sh#t everywhere and honk and fight for territory. Maybe I should invite that dog to my house. Canadian Geese caused the Miracle on the Hudson plane crash and many others.

It's the owners fault, not the dogs. The dog was doing what he thinks he is supposed to. Hunt to feed the pack. It's the owner who should keep his dog under control. All you'd have to do is break a few of the owners fingers and then he couldn't climb, problem solved.

As far as what to do, talk to the owner first like you did. Then talk to any women in his group if possible. They'll talk some sense into him later. Not to much you can do and it's not worth fighting over. You could also eat lunch below them and talk loudly about what an idiot he is and how karma will probably cause him to fall and get hurt.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:12pm PT


"I would rip your baby limb from limb, take a crap on it, and then fling it at you"...

LMAO!!!...

Oddly FUNNY as hell!!!...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
I changed tenses, I hope it's still funny, Locker!
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
jebus!
who's baby?
dismembered?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
I was taking your cue to jump to the logical conclusions, Weedge.

How does it go? I'll posthumously rape your dog if you pee on my rope in retaliation for me kicking your kid in the face???
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
ahh.
got it.
i completely understand dislodge-ic.
sometimes i get lost, though.
while seeking it's incestuous uncle,
Floorabove

climber
The Gunks y\'all
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Feed the dog ex lax rolled in sliced ham. Will make for a sporty drive home in the Subaru.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
^^ Fantastic!!
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:43pm PT

Please, just leave your dog at home.
this just in

climber
north fork
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
Dogs are fine at crags, please leave the people at home.
this just in

climber
north fork
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
And it's Canada geese.
Stoney007247

Trad climber
Cordelia
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Ah ha, and the politically correct answer of the day goes to, the fet. Thanks for the link! And that explains the hammer drill that they broke out later and decided to drill a few new holes on memorial rock.

I will shoot them some spray later on today.

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 23, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Damn geese shudah stayed in Canadastan. Durp!

Patriotic dawgs get credit fer killin' dem be-winged terrorists fore dey dropped some lawn bombs!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
Blame Canada.

Those stupid Canada Geese. They're jealous the Loon is on their money. Leaving their igloos and coming down here, being overly nice, eating maple syrup, saying: "I"m aboot to make this rock my hoose, eh."

Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
every morning my wife gets
up at 4:30 and she disappears
into the cave-like closet
that i built her.

she lays down on her retired yoga mat,
and does 100 situps.

she uses this purple machine that
has been my nemisis ever since i smoked berry pudding.

i love it.
she's ambitious and sexy.

though this creaky machine sounds
just like a flock of canadian geese
flyin over's.

so i sometimes inquire,

"did the geese fly over this morning?"

i always get an extra-special kiss on those.

this just in

climber
north fork
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:13pm PT


Always keep kids on a leash!
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
I once wrote about climbing with a dog: Here is the link with pics:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/climbing/2010/01/rock_climbing_with_the_dog.html

Here is the story:

I would like to say first that it is not a good idea to take the dog when I go rock climbing. That being said I can say that I have done it, and the results have been mixed to say the least. Mostly it is a real pain.

For one it is not my dog. I donít even like pets. They are too much work for the supposed gain. The dog is my wifeís. She loves that dog. I try to pretend that I donít love it too. It seems to have wormed its way into my heart. Damn it!
The incidents I have had with that dog are the stuff of legend. Legendary patience, which the dog has tested numerous times over the years. Why this dog has not been left in the wilderness or shot by a farmer, I am still amazed and perplexed.

My wife and I were once climbing in a situation where we needed to have two ropes to rappel off a route. So the logical way for my wife to get the rope up to us was to trail it behind her as she climbed the route. I had done all the hard work and led the climb.

As she started up the route she noticed some resistance and looked down to see the dog lying on the rope. It was a nice soft place to lay down and it made perfect sense to the dog. My wife yelled at the dog and then had to roughly yank on the rope to get the dog to move.

It wasnít an easy route to begin with and it wasnít any easier with the added resistance from the dog. Then the dog started barking like a fiend at us, which was bad as we needed to keep a low profile in the area we were climbing in. The dog missed us.
That was a mild incident. The next one was a bit more infuriating. We were camping in Indian Creek, Utah near the Canyonlands National Park. The dog somehow got off the leash and off she went. When she saw the cows she really took off and started chasing them.

I told my wife. " If a farmer shoots the dog they are in the right. The cows are their livelihood and having a dog chase them all over the place is taking precious fat off the bones of those cows. So your dog may be dead by the end of the day."

I took off after the dog as I saw it as my responsibility to catch the dog if I could. We climbers are supposed to keep a low profile, share the land with the locals and leave no trace. I didnít want to be the climber that gendered bad blood with the local farmers and thereby cause the climbing community to get a black eye or worse lose the privilege of use of such a beautiful place.

So I took off running after the dog. It must have been 80 or 90 degrees. Letís just say that it was hot and so was I. I was planning on climbing with my partners that day not chasing some stupid dog.

After I had spent two hours and 5 miles of running around the desert chasing the dog chase the cows. We had managed to go over and through several canyons, fences and rivers. The cows finally ran into a box canyon and the dog pinned them in there and started barking. I grabbed the dog and started walking the five miles back to camp.

I was so mad I couldnít talk. It took me days to get over that fiasco. The trip wasnít ruined and I had won some ďOH honey I love you so much pointsĒ for later use in time of need. The dog lived another day to tax my patience yet again.

My wife had gone on vacation and I saw this as an opportunity to take off into the deep woods with my son and his friend. There is a place I wanted to climb that was remote and I thought well it would be good to take the dog out.

Well normally when we get out in the woods we will let her off leash and as long as we put her back on before we get to the car it is not a problem. Well there was a problem this time. The dog got scent of the elk and freaked out and didnít want to come home.
So the chase was on. She would not be caught. So we got in the car and started driving. The dog followed the car. Great. But the dog canít run over 10 or 15 miles an hour. So on down the road we go. I have no cell phone coverage so I canít call anyone to let them know what is going on. So after about 3 hours and 8 miles of trying to get the dog to get into the car we had to leave her and drive to a phone to make sure that someone didnít call out a search for us.

We drove back to a campground where the dog was trying to be caught by some campers in the area. They helped us for hours try to get the dog. Then one of them had the idea that she had some tranquilizers that we could drug the dog with. This sounded great to me so we put them into a hotdog and feed it to the dog. The dog passed out and off we went home.

If this didnít teach me a lesson it should have. Several months later I needed to go out to a remote climbing area in the deep woods by myself. Again I thought ďPoor dog. She really needs to get out. I will take her with me.Ē Bad idea.

I took her off leash and spent the rest of the day trying to get her back. I finished my task and started home and still couldnít get the dog. I did the drive down the road thing again and the dog followed slowly. I didnít have cell phone reception again and didnít have it for over 35 miles. I drove 5 miles an hour for 7 hours. Every once in a while I would open the door and yell to the dog ďAre you ready to get into the car?Ē. She wasn't. It was awful.

Finally I got to a place where I could call my wife and have her drive out to meet us. When she got there the dog ran right up to her and jumped into the car.
I don't even think about taking the dog to Smith Rock. Too many people and the area is not really dog friendly. This is an area where a dog could be a nuisance to other climbers. The regulations require that dogs must be on a leash at all times, Dogs can not be tied up to a tree or rock.

So the moral of the story is:
Donít take dogs out to climbing areas.
And if you do make sure you watch them so they donít bother other climbers and or area livestock.
Always keep them on a leash.
And if they canít be trusted around other people, leave them at home.

I have all kinds of points saved up now with my wife. So if I want to go on a climbing trip or go do something with the guys. All I have to say is DOG.
D-O-O-O-O-O-G.

Plaidman

Why is patience a virtue?
Cause not many people have it.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Seven people and a dog got out of a Subaru?

Were they dressed like clowns?

Did they smell of Patchouli?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Pass the salt!!!...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#300118
Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Hey Guys,

I will send out an email to the BOD right now on the issue. Thanks for bringing this up as this is exactly the kind of stuff we need to be vigilant about to ensure we maintain access.

CRAGS highlighted that climbers are a strongly self policing group as part of our efforts to getting the place reopened. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

I am not sure if it is just me, but I really have lost a lot of faith in humanity over the last few years. I once thought climbers typically a "better" group of people than your average cross-section of the public. Unfortunately, it is being disproved time and time again. Head-shaking news friends :(
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
Please do bring you dogs to the crag. I love dogs. If you can't/won't train them, I will help. You may think I'm rough, but they always come around eventually.

Fuk people who don't like dogs at the crag. And fuk people who don't realize when they are in sensitive areas.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
F*#k, those geese would grow up and get shot by one of the Rons for dinner or killed for shitting on the country club lawn anyhow.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
I went to the Ouray Pool wall a few weeks back and as I was approaching the base of my intended route I was accosted by four, unleashed barking dogs . . . imagine that! I told the dogs to shut up and "go home" and they backed off a bit. The climbers owning the animals, two dudes and three gals, were about 100 yards away and made no effort to come over and remove their offensive curs, they just kind of lamely called to them. Two of the four dogs did not listen and continued to growl menacingly and still no effort was made to come over and physically remove them. I decided to avoid conflict and started my set up and ignored the last lingering pooch.

Then one of the women, without apology or remorse said "She (her bitch dog) really is a sweet animal." I thought, wow, thanks chick, I couldn't tell with all the barking.

Really now, how ignorant and insensitive could these people be? They are coming to a crag near you!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 23, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
We were up there a few weeks ago with my niece's little maltese, lahso, or something mixed mini-dog.

That place is dog central, and most were with hikers just passing through.

Every one was on leash, or very well behaved.

It's par for the course that the bad apples stand out like a sore thumbs. And bad analogies and idioms are irritating too.

Floorabove's ex-lax may have to be a part of my first aid kit now. Or maybe a nice pot brownie so they have to carry their sleeping dog home.
DanaB

climber
CT
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Two of the four dogs did not listen

How many dogs are trained to listen and obey?
< 0.1%.
You cannot talk to dog owners
bp

Trad climber
Placerville, Ca
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Well, here is my side of the story.

My name is Brian Poulsen. I am a CRAGS Board Member, and have been very closely involved in the reopening of the Auburn Quarry. On Sunday morning, on my way into the Quarry to climb with my partner, I stopped and offered a ride to a handfull of other climbers that were walking in (some I knew, others I didn't). I was not the scheduled volunteer for that day, and normally, I don't drive up, unless I am the scheduled volunteer. On this day, however, I inteded to replace some missing bolts on the Memorial Wall (during the 10-year climbing ban, a number of routes were vandalized and bolts were stripped of hangers or chopped. )Rather than walk in with my heavy drill and bolting gear, I opted to drive. Apparently this offended the person who started this thread, and for that I apologize. I can see how arriving in a car with a bunch of people may have given the wrong impression, but I routinely offer rides in and out when I am the scheduled volunteer and drive in or out of the Quarry.

One of the individuals who I picked up on the way in also had a dog. When we arrived at the Quarry, I notified him that the Park requires dog's to be on leash. As I noted above, I was not the CRAGS volunteer on duty at the time. Even if I was, however, CRAGS volunteers do not have any authority whatever to enforce Park rules. We merely inform climbers what the rules are, and ask them to comply.

During the course of the day, it is my understanding that the dog did find and kill several goslings. This was serious tragedy.

I was not present when the person that started this thread confronted the dog owner, and cannot confirm his response. That said, I strongly disagree with the notion that the dog owner "didn't care." I recieved a personal email from him that very evening, wherein he expressed his deep regret and apology.

Later in the afternoon, I did "break out a hammer drill" to replace a missing bolt on one of the highly trafficked routes on the Memorial Wall. Presently there are at least three other routes on that wall that need to be mostly or entirely re-equiped with new bolts and anchors, and I intended to do more work, but had failed to bring up enough of the right equipment. I patched the old hole with epoxy since it was not reusable and drilled a new hole. I was very careful to camoflauge the old hole. I have done and will continue to do bolt replacement work in the Quarry on my own personal time, not as a CRAGS volunteer.

Clearly, the person who started the thread is upset at what happended with the goslings, and justifyably so. CRAGS will soon post a sign on the sign-board at the bottom of the Quarry encouraging climbers to leave their dogs at home. For future reference, please be aware that this sign-baord already has the contact information for Park rangers and CRAGS. I regret that the person that started this thread did not contact CRAGS directly to express his/her concerns.

In the future, I believe it would be most constructive to contact CRAGS directly if you have concerns about CRAGS volunteers or climbing related activities you observe in the Quarry.

Finally, I am profoundly sorry for the loss of the gosslings. I hope we can all learn from this tragedy.
Brian
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
There are a couple of issues, here.

first, the issue of the geese:

Canadian Geese are federally protected under the migratory bird act:
http://www.wildgoosechasers.com/law.php
Which says:

This Act makes it illegal to harm or injure a goose and damage or move its eggs and nest, without a Federal permit. Not complying with the Federal Act can result in fines ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 and this also applies to an untrained dogís actions.

so they were breaking a federal law. I'm not positive, but you might have been fully justified in shooting the dog.

Second, the issue of reporting.

Don't you guys get it? Are you incapable of education? You are conspiring to hide the commission of a crime, probably a separate offense in and of itself. You have documented your crime nicely.

What you are doing, when you talk about "taking care of it internally" is EXACTLY the same thing as the Bishops taking care of pedophiles "internally". It is EXACTLY the same as taking care of Jerry Sandusky "internally".

What normal people call it is a COVERUP.

You could not be more wrong about how agencies look at such things. They look at how the climbing community looks at protecting the resource.....or more importantly, protecting themselves?

Do you want them thinking "climbers will protect sites and the associated values as a partner", or "climbers will cover up crimes to protect each other"?

If the climbing community wants to engender TRUST, it must act in a TRUSTWORTHY manner.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 23, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Dogs don't belong at crags unless well managed but wolverines are okay.....saw one at the base of the Cobra Pillar in the Ruth Gorge.
Getch

Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
A criminal act requires intent. I seriously doubt you could prove that the irresponsible climbers intended for their dog to kill the geese. Also, this is a civil violation, something completely different from the exploitation of children.

To make the appropriate analogy, you would like to hold season ticket holders responsible for supporting the PSU football team.

No you would not be justified in shooting the dog for eating geese. They are protected by the migratory bird act so hunting can be regulated... do go on about education though...

Like many things there is one who spoils it for the bunch. I take my dog to crags regularly. I have never met a person who does not enjoy my dog. She runs, mountain bikes, canyoneers, and skis with me. She also listens exactly to what I say. She might be the exception but then again we arent all out there chipping holds and leaving cigarette butts everywhere. This was an isolated incident, not the norm.
caughtinside

Social climber
Oakland, CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Thanks Brian for working to reopen the crag and maintain the routes.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
like I've said before - dogs are cool at the crag long as they don't -

Sh#t on trail, or base
Pee on equipment
Hump leg
Sniff crotch
Lick face
Pant in face
Growl
Whine
Bark for no reason
Bark aggressively at people
Drool on possessions and persons
Bite people
Fight with other dogs
Dig holes and throw dirt on possessions and people
Lie down on possessions and people
Knock sh#t over like water bottles
Beg
Steal food
Rifle through packs
Get underfoot while bouldering
Get underfoot on steep approaches
Chase wildlife
Eat endangered species
Threaten access by the above behaviors


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
Nice list Kevin....you pretty much nailed it!
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
up in strawberry a bull-dog
type attacked my idle border collie.
i layed into it line-backer like
for it was clamped on my dog's neck.

it turned on me
so i shoved my closed fist
down it's throat.

i wore a pearl necklace
for the gastro-recoil of my fist,
but me an my dog escaped.

the owner was aghast.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 23, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
The list is hereby titled Donini's Dog Nonos

And way to animal out Norwedge
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 23, 2013 - 08:01pm PT


"Locker, do you ask people if they mind, if an old guy smelling of hootch with a bad goatee can climb near them?"...

Yes, of course...

Don't you???...



EDITED:

All joking aside...

If I see another party climbing where or near I want to be, I go somewhere else...

So it really is not an issue...

I simply DON'T "Crowd" and don't want to be around others when I'm out and about...(Hard to avoid at many places)




EDITED:

Some may be thinking I don't like dogs...

Not true of course!!!...

I've had many and still have Dog, my dog and good little buddy...

I just honestly do not believe that they belong at the "Crags" where others will be present...

If it's a gig where your group is somewhere remote???...

Different story...

But at popular crags???...

NOPE!!!...

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 23, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
A criminal act requires intent. I seriously doubt you could prove that the irresponsible climbers intended for their dog to kill the geese. Also, this is a civil violation, something completely different from the exploitation of children.

Odd definition.

So thowing rocks off El Cap for fun, and killing a climber, is not a criminal act, because they didn't "mean" to....and you have to prove otherwise?

So failing to curb your wheels, where it is legally required and posted to do so, and the car breaks loose and kills someone, is not a criminal act, because you didn't mean to?

I think your definition doesn't hold water.

The TYPE of crime is certainly different than child porn, but everyone understands a coverup.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 23, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Reckless endangerment can result in a felony charge and requires no intent.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 23, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
We were attacked yesterday as we drove by Lost Horse (JTree) on the dirt
road by a Doberman. I was in the back seat and the monster was just
outside my door. I opened the door trying to entice him to stick his
head in but my carmates pleaded with me to desist based on their belief
that we should go back and do it to the owner. I agreed.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 23, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Stoney007247

Trad climber
Cordelia
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Brian P. Thank you for responding. Let me start off by thanking you for the work you have done at the Quarry. It really is people like you that take locations like this and make it available and safe for people like me to climb at. I wish I knew who you were and what organization you are involved with. I would of come up and shaken your hand. Your replacing of bolts is a good thing and that place could use a bit of it.

At the same time, the guy with the dog didn't even have a leash for his dog. He had to tie him up with a 30" runner and biner in the hot sun for multiple hours. AND, when I told him what his dog did (kill 4 goslings) all he had to say to me was "those geese are an invasive species and shouldn't be here anyways" and "I saw two chicks alive so there must have been 6 there". Thats when I lost my cool and told him to stay away from me and put his damn dog on a leash. There was no apology or even remorse to me at the time.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 23, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Ya! Friggin dogs. They'll lay all over ya! ;)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 23, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
Sh#t on trail, or base
Pee on equipment
Hump leg
Sniff crotch
Lick face
Pant in face
Growl
Whine
Bark for no reason
Bark aggressively at people
Drool on possessions and persons
Bite people
Fight with other dogs
Dig holes and throw dirt on possessions and people
Lie down on possessions and people
Knock sh#t over like water bottles
Beg
Steal food
Rifle through packs
Get underfoot while bouldering
Get underfoot on steep approaches
Chase wildlife
Eat endangered species
Threaten access by the above behaviors

Good list but i would like to add a few.
run through my rope while i am belaying a leader almost pulling my leader off( happened last time @ rumny)

Dig up a bunch of holes and cause erosion. I care not so much about my possesions but the erosion issue is the #1 reason that land managers do not like climbers.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 23, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Please feel free to add to the Donini's Dog Nonos list.






The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 23, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Here's another:

Sprawl out on the flattest, most comfortable belay spot.

Oh and:

Go swimming and wait to shake themselves off 'til they're 3 ft away from you.

Forgot:

Lie down on your flaked out rope while you're belaying the leader.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:00am PT
What... no dogs? But how am I going to get my rope up there when my dog climbs sooo much better than me?
photo not found
Missing photo ID#300237
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:37am PT
Teddy Says -

All dogs are equal, but some are more equal than others
[url=[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://smg.photobucket.com/user/happiegrrrl/media/Teddy%20Pics/TeddyandBobE.jpg.html][/url]

I'm not just the president, I'm also a member
[url=[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://smg.photobucket.com/user/happiegrrrl/media/Teddy%20Pics/Teddys-Tagblotted.jpg.html][/url]

Leave me at home? Sure,I go both ways
[url=[/url" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://smg.photobucket.com/user/happiegrrrl/media/TeddyinBedsmall.jpg.html][/url]
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Lot of talk about giving chocolate to dogs, which can be deadly. If I see anyone feeding a dog chocolate I will consider it attempted murder and respond accordingly.

this also applies to an untrained dogís actions.

What about trained dogs who experience a temporary lapse in self-control? I've been potty trained for decades... doesn't mean I always make it. I'm sure that holds for most of the geriatric posters on the StupidTaco as well.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Good posts Stoney007247 and bp. It's great to have a productive discussion here.

Do no no list:
Sh#t on trail, or base
Pee on equipment
Hump leg
Sniff crotch
Lick face
Pant in face
Growl
Whine
Bark for no reason
Bark aggressively at people
Drool on possessions and persons
Bite people
Fight with other dogs
Dig holes and throw dirt on possessions and people
Lie down on possessions and people
Knock sh#t over like water bottles
Beg
Steal food
Rifle through packs
Get underfoot while bouldering
Get underfoot on steep approaches
Chase wildlife
Eat endangered species
Threaten access by the above behaviors
run through my rope while i am belaying a leader Dig up a bunch of holes and cause erosion.
Sprawl out on the flattest, most comfortable belay spot.
Go swimming and wait to shake themselves off 'til they're 3 ft away from you.
Lie down on your flaked out rope while you're belaying the leader.

And I'll add my biggest pet peeve, get left alone while owner climbs a multi-pitch, so they whine, pace, and get territorial, then when the selfish owner comes back the dog is happy and they think it was perfectly behaved the whole time. I see it all the time at the Leap.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 10:28am PT
when you guy's see a dog at the crag you should leave and go to the mall or something.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Dog no no list: / climber no no list
Sh#t on trail, or base / sh#t on trail, at base, on ledge halfway up
Pee on equipment / pee in a crack, or worse, from above you
Hump leg / hump your girlfriend, or try anyway
Sniff crotch / smell like crotch
Lick face / backwash your water bottle cause they ran out
Pant in face / pant loudly when pumped, or near your girlfriend
Growl / grunt
Whine / whimper at the crux
Bark for no reason / spray unwanted beta for a route your not on anyway
Bark aggressively at people / same
Drool on possessions and persons / same
Bite people / climb through without permission
Fight with other dogs / bolt wars, chopping
Dig holes and throw dirt on possessions and people / trundle
Lie down on possessions and people / dog a route with a hungover party of 3
Knock sh#t over like water bottles / drop sh#t on your head, like water bottles
Beg / yep
Steal food / its community property at the crag, aint it?
Rifle through packs / its booty if its unattended more than 10 seconds!
Get underfoot while bouldering / its a place, not a sport.
Get underfoot on steep approaches / cut switchbacks on steep approaches
Chase wildlife / ARE wildlife
Eat endangered species / displace nesting endangered species
Threaten access by the above behaviors / and more
run through my rope while i am belaying a leader / critique my belay technique, offering up the hip belay as the only safe method as seen on youtube
Dig up a bunch of holes and cause erosion.† / bolt cracks
Sprawl out on the flattest, most comfortable belay spot./ pass out drunk after fixing a clasric, causing an epic log jam
Go swimming and wait to shake themselves off 'til they're 3 ft away from you. get within 3 feet of you, without bathing
Lie down on your flaked out rope while you're belaying the leader. / chat it up, standind on your rope, while you,re belaying a leader

And I'll add my biggest pet peeve, get left alone while owner climbs a multi-pitch, so they whine, pace, and get territorial, then when the selfish owner comes back the dog is happy and they think it was perfectly behaved the whole time. I see it all the time at the Leap. / leaving their trash all alone, thinking all the while they are environmentally superior
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
WOOF.



photo not found
Missing photo ID#299703
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 24, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
^^^ Or in that case BARK.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
nice hillrat!

I was thinking the same thing, we need a list of climber no nos.. and how many of them will be very similar.

I'll add:
Drop something without yelling rock
Have the leader climb up the a*# of the second of the previous party so belay ledges are crowded. (wait until the second arrives at the belay,then start up)
Take over ~1/2 per pitch on a popular climb (i.e. climbing a classic route over their heads)
Getch

Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
Criminal intent is a requirement of the law not my definition. Yes there are ways around it, but we are talking about a civil violation which does not require mens rea. You can argue the definition or go read the case law surrounding that definition.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
Let's feed Wes some chocolate and see what happens !
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 24, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson

her sleekness,, at da crag..
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 24, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Thank you Brian Poulsen for the great response and the work you are doing!
Erik
euro-brief-guy

Boulder climber
Auburn, ca
Apr 24, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
Thanks BP. I've also been doing my best to make Auburn a bit chin' crag. I definitely don't want some yahoos to jeopardize my local crag.

About 2 months ago I saw 2 unleashed dogs get into it pretty bad.....pit bull vs terrier. Owners were pretty casual about the whole thing.

Steve Montesanto
Chim-Chim

climber
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
Wretched animals... Canada Geese, not dogs. A fowl breed that belongs up north, not in down under.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 24, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
I hope they took their dog in for a checkup!
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 24, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
I'll add to the human side.. don't try to take a picture of me trying to take a piss or sh#t. Or even blatently watch.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 25, 2013 - 01:42am PT
I'll bet there's a creepy story behind that one!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:19am PT
Doggy bump
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 25, 2013 - 02:21am PT
"Like many things there is one who spoils it for the bunch. I take my dog to crags regularly. I have never met a person who does not enjoy my dog."

Ergo, dogs belong at the crags. Bullsh#t.

I love my dog more than most human beings, for the record.

Brian, nice post. Thanks for your good work and genuine response.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:55am PT
Apoge. Your impression that everyone likes your dog is the #1 problem with 100% of dog owners/slaves. Everyone does Not like your dog. many folks are just being polite. The reality is that for every one crag dog that is cool there are 10 that are a PINTA yet every dog slave (human) thinks their master (dog) is the best thing since canned beer....
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:09am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#300446


How many of you would have told this guy that dogs don't belong at the crag?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:16am PT
Nice picture of Kor Philo.

Sadie May trying to look cute:

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:18am PT
Sadie Mae doesn't have to try. What a cutie.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:37am PT
For those who don't want dogs at the crag:

 Do you smoke pot, at the crag?
 Do you drink alcohol at the crag?
 Do you play music without using personal earphones(that don't let the sound spill over to be heard by others) at the crag?
 Do you allow your children to be freewheeling and have running around at the crag? If your child is an infant, have you recently brought that child into an are where there was even the most remote possibility of something falling from above and taking them out in the blink of an eye?
 Have you brought your antagonistic relationship; the one in which you find yourselves bickering regardless of the fact others are witnessing it, to the crag?
 Have you screamed like a two-year old having a tantrum when you can't pull the crux on a route you are redpointing?
 Have you brought a bevy of others who barely climb to the crag and hung topropes, and then set up for a day of picnicking and (very little actual) climbing at the crag?




If you answered yes to one or more of the above, please note that there are plenty of people who don't feel having/doing those things at the crag is right.

What do you say to those people? And if your answer(even in your own head) was "F 'em," then why on earth would you feel your anti-dog stance has merit?




I DO agree that poorly managed dogs are a problem. But the problem is the people. There are a lot of idiots and as#@&%es on this planet.

If only we could keep idiots and as#@&%es away from the crag!



philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:47am PT
Good one Happie
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:49am PT
I am a dog owner who believes that dogs have no place at the crags. It's kinda like lighting up a cigarette in a non smoking area. I'm also a non-smoker, and am offended my someone smoking nearby, but am normally too polite to tell them to Fuk off! Dog owners sometimes think everybody loves MY dog. Leave 'em at home. If bringing a dog to the crag offends just ONE person, that's too many.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:53am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#290444

InDOGnito



photo not found
Missing photo ID#299666

InDREDnito

photo not found
Missing photo ID#285167
photo not found
Missing photo ID#211061
photo not found
Missing photo ID#299639

photo not found
Missing photo ID#259611
Credit: philo



The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:06am PT
How many of you would have told this guy that dogs don't belong at the crag?

How many climbers have their dog on a leash at the crag like Layton does in that photo?
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:13am PT
A point which should be made to the original poster: anytime there's wanton destruction of wildlife involved, call the Game and Fish district Warden. G & F is usually responsible for enforcement of that sort of action, regardless of where it occurs. In my state, it's completely lawful to shoot the dog while in the act of destruction or harassment of wildlife.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:18am PT
Credit: Ron Anderson

this is my rooster BOB,, i bring him to da crags.. Anyone got a prob with BOB?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:21am PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ3zMacOI-U
Biskit the climbing dog.
"The Lynn Hill of the dog world".
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:22am PT
Happie, your list of human nonos is a good one, but the first two, pot and booze at the crag, are probably the most common, and I think it's a stretch to compare their impact to a problem dog's.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:30am PT
That is the thing Warbler, it is not a black & white issue. There are dogs that should not go to the rocks and their humans should know it. But then again there are canines that are perfect "Crag Dogs" and are a joy to be around.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Whos gonna try and kick BOB off da crag?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Everyone does Not like your dog. many folks are just being polite.

And I feel the same about most of you. For every cool person I meet at the crag, there are 100 fukhead who think I want to listen to them spray about 5.blahblahblah and flashing this and grab that hold like this.

Deal with it.


It's kinda like lighting up a cigarette in a non smoking area.

Nope.

but the first two, pot and booze at the crag, are probably the most common, and I think it's a stretch to compare their impact to a problem dog's.

I've picked up way more beer bottles left by others at the crag than dog poop.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:40am PT
But then again there are canines that are perfect "Crag Dogs" ...

This is true. Rare, from what I've seen, but they exist.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 25, 2013 - 10:49am PT

But then again there are canines that are perfect "Crag Dogs" ...

This is true. Rare, from what I've seen, but they exist.

^^^ Anyone who knows or has met my Goldie girl knows that to be a troofatude.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#247033
photo not found
Missing photo ID#247035




photo not found
Missing photo ID#290403
Now taking dogs to the pool is a different story.
treez

Trad climber
99827
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:29am PT
You know the dog feels like a total ass and his tummy hurts.

I hate that.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 25, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
I am a dog owner who believes that dogs have no place at the crags. It's kinda like lighting up a cigarette in a non smoking area. I'm also a non-smoker, and am offended my someone smoking nearby, but am normally too polite to tell them to Fuk off! Dog owners sometimes think everybody loves MY dog. Leave 'em at home. If bringing a dog to the crag offends just ONE person, that's too many.

I knew this would degenerate into a standard dogs at the crag thread, but... must... speak... up.

I am a dog owner. About 1/2 of the dogs I've owned I'd bring to the crags (but I'd never leave them alone and do a multi-pitch) and 1/2 I'd leave at home. Only one would I let off leash at times, and I'd put him back on leash if I saw anyone offended by that. The ones I bring belong at the crags IMO.

Some crags are no dog areas, some allow dogs, so smokers in a non-smoking area isn't a good analogy. At crags where dogs are allowed it IS similar to smokers there. I'd rather not see smokers, but I'm not so self centered as to think, "I think smoking is lame so I don't want to even see them". They have the right to smoke in a smoking area (e.g an outdoor crag). However if a smoker's smoke gets in my face (or a dog gets in your stuff) or a smoker litters their butts (or a dog owner leaves a dog poop), then sure you have the right to be pissed because your experience is being negatively effected. And I can and have said things in those situations. Typically though the people who do that kind of thing don't care.

So people can claim all they want about how dogs don't belong at the crags, but I don't really care, my dog's and my right to be there without causing any problems is greater than their right to simply be free of seeing a dog.

I don't think everybody likes even my most well behaved dog. I can see their expressions and body language. I just don't really care if someone has a problem with something that shouldn't bother them.

In my experience 1-2 dogs out of 10 cause a problem, but even that is way too much. But at the Leap where people leave dogs alone it's more like 50% are a problem.

So it sucks that there's so many owners letting their dogs cause problems, but I'm not going to let that screw up what I want to do when I 'play by the rules'.

BTW at Auburn as mentioned the majority of dogs there aren't even with climbers so even if no climbers brought dogs you'd have to deal with them anyway.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Do you smoke pot, at the crag?
Do you drink alcohol at the crag?
Do you play music without using personal earphones(that don't let the sound spill over to be heard by others) at the crag?
Do you allow your children to be freewheeling and have running around at the crag? If your child is an infant, have you recently brought that child into an are where there was even the most remote possibility of something falling from above and taking them out in the blink of an eye?
Have you brought your antagonistic relationship; the one in which you find yourselves bickering regardless of the fact others are witnessing it, to the crag?
Have you screamed like a two-year old having a tantrum when you can't pull the crux on a route you are redpointing?
Have you brought a bevy of others who barely climb to the crag and hung topropes, and then set up for a day of picnicking and (very little actual) climbing at the crag?




i can honestly say i do not do any of that sh#t. as for beer bottles at the crag 99% of the beer bottles and cans i pick up are from day hikers not climbers.
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
Never met a dog at the crag I didn't like.

Bring em!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
I have two dogs.

One, I would never think of bringing, he'd be a PITA and I'd have to keep an eye on him.

The other, I'd never think of leaving at home. He knows the deal. He may cruise around and wag his tail at others, and approach if it seems wanted. Doesn't chase things. Sits at the base of multi pitch climbs waiting for me. I don't have to watch him closely, he's nine and has been climbing with me since I got him at eight weeks.

So, there's no cut and dry answer. It's like humans, some you don't want to be associated with at the crag. Others make you look good just for being there with them.

Woof!

Edit; one thing I taught my older dog from the get-go was the command 'Self Entertain'. If he's harassing me to play stick or ball with him and I'm not into it, I tell him in a stern voice to self entertain. No kidding, he doesn't take it as a command to go away, he will take his stick or ball to the top of an incline and nudge it downhill with his nose, jump on it, chew it, and repeat. He will do this every time I tell him.

It's a good command to teach your dog, though many dogs may lack the brains to learn it.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Brandon are you sure he sits there patiently? You aren't there. A couple times I've seen dogs completely change personality once their owners were out if sight. When the owners returned it was all tail wagging and happy. When I told the owners this they doubted me. But when I told one of them a guy was throwing rocks at his dog because it was being aggressive/territorial he believed me.

I'd suggest spying on your dog from a distance to make sure and keep in mind some
Asshole may attack or walk off with your dog.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 25, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Indeed. I spied on him quite a few times before I trusted him unsupervised. I found that he would wander up to 20 meters but not cause any trouble. That said, I only leave him alone unleashed for long periods when appropriate. If it's a multi pitch crag with a bunch of other parties, I won't bring him.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
Goldie looks like a great companion and friend Philo.



But as a belayer, I'd train her to stay awake at least:-) Maybe share a little AM coffee in the dog bowl? LOL
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
Kab, what About wolves at the crag?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
Dogs lick ballz









Don't try to tell me they don't







Unless of course they're a B!TCH



















Jus messin wid you dog lubbers
Betty Uno

Mountain climber
Colorado
Apr 25, 2013 - 08:20pm PT

That is disgusting, the part about the dog ripping up the goslings.

Perhaps next time you could take videos of the dog, and the dead young birds, and the guy saying "It's no big deal," and post it on youtube and elsewhere.

I say next time, because right now, as we speak, some other "nature lover" is letting his dog do the same thing, and it's spring, nesting season.

It used to be people respected spring and did not hunt or otherwise disturb the critters raising their young.

I know the one time I said to a guy standing directly under a sign saying "PLEASE KEEP YOUR DOG ON A LEASH IN THIS WILD LIFE PRESERVE" that he should, indeed, keep his dog on a leash, he snarled back; "What are you? The dog police?"

Believe me I give not one sh#t, so to speak, about dog sh#t. Just don't try to put it in my compost pile is all I ask. Yes, I have met someone so dumb they thought dog sh#t went in a compost pile for a vegetable garden, which is why I mention it. They ARGUED with me about it. LOL.

What I have seen in the spring, is that a dog turned loose can hunt out nests and young things and decimate them in very rapid order.

Then after the "fun romp" the owner puts the dog on the leash for the rest of the day, and thinks nothing of it.







Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?

Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Ok. I'm here to have my limbs ripped off and my dog killed: I am the dog owner in question.
Here is the story and you can pass you comments as you feel fit.
I would start by saying that I have climbed well over 1000 days and 3/4 of those with one of 2 dogs that I have had over a 28 year climbing period. I have never in many hundreds of days had a dog eat any live animal or bird or bite any person. Not even a squirrel or mouse. Nothing. With this in mind I brought my family dog (who lives with 3 small kids)and let him kick around while I climbed. What I have done so many times. I heard all the noise from the geese but I kept looking over and could not see anything and figured it was mating season or something? A little later I saw two small chicks tumble down the hill side and then saw my dog on a ledge where they had come from. I got him immediately under control and watched what happened. The parents guided them up the hill and out of sight. I considered it a close shave and tied him up. Later I ran down to use the head and took him with me under voice control thinking all was as well as it could be. When I came back up the guy who started the thread and his 2 friends told me all was not well and he had killed 4 chicks. He was furious (I don't blame him). I went and inspected the carnage and found 2 dead chicks. I tied him up. At that point there was not much else to be done. I suppose I could have left but other than a token of apology it would not have changed anything. I finished the day of climbing. My dog sat at the base in the sun but that was no big deal. he's sat in the sun at rock bases his whole life.
I feel terrible because:
I was responsible for my dog killing wildlife.
The incident was very upsetting to other people there.
It's the kind of incident that could screw up access if the management find out about it.
I spoke at length with the CRAGS representative. For me it is a regrettable live and learn incident the likes of which has never happened before. The Quarry is a different situation than other locations with geese nesting all over and apparently in pretty easy to access spots. I've seen a number of dogs of climbers and hikers off leash and never thought much of it until now. Personally, if he can't run around and play there is no point bringing him so he can stay at home. Most of my climbing is at empty crags middle of the week and he usually the only dog around and just kicks back.
There are a lot of people who dislike any dogs at the crag and that's fine to hold that view. I don't like it myself when there are a bunch of dogs at a small crag like Gold Wall, but most of the time it's a very mellow scene with a friend and a dog and it's been that way for years and probably will be in the future. I spend a lot of time in the back country running at dusk and he keeps the mountain lion's at bay.
Anyway, it's a bummer all round but not one that will be repeated by me at least
Aidan
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
Credit: drljefe

How about dogs on top of the crag?
My dog met me at the top of a six pitch route a few weekends ago.
Yes, I leave her at the base. She has proven to not be a nuisance.

If others don't want to see a dog out at the "crag", fine.
We have the right to be there just like you have the right to do what you want.
If it bums your trip, split. When a loud group shows up, or any number of things I don't like when I'm out climbing, I split.
Easy as that.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Very brave post Aidan. It's very clear you regret it, but you may still want to offer a clear apology to the OP, etc.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
Not so easy when the dog is a big husky threatening to rip my face off because his slave human left packs at the base of the climb next to my pack which i can not retrieve without risking bodily harm....


manzanita man

Social climber
somerset, ca.
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
i bring my dog climbing all the time but since i only climb 5.4, im never around any REAL climbers.:]
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 25, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
What about bolted dog anchors at the base of all climbs? that should cover it.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
yeah, 2 bolt anchors about 10 ft apart with the mutt on 2 six ft leashes. Bad dogs - 5 ft leashes. Dog anchor must be at least 20 ft from base of crag.

Owner must remain within 50 ft horizontal radius and 100 ft vertical radius.

Oh, and another dog nono - kinda like knocking sh#t over, but worse - dogs atop crags trundling rocks.



They really are cute though :)
treez

Trad climber
99827
Apr 25, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
I don't think the OP needs an apology.

He ruined his own day by freaking out. My wife does it all the time.

Who cleans up the goose sh#t? That's right, nobody.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 26, 2013 - 12:27am PT
treez, nice!

Don't pretend you dog h8ers haven't left your fair share of steaming piles in the woods... and ass wipe... and YOU knew better. Besides, my dog ate far more HUMAN sh#t from areas like Maple, AF, Joe's, Happies, Rifle, RRG, etc than he ever left. How much feces have YOU cleaned up from a crag? Exactly NONE.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Apr 26, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Besides, my dog ate far more HUMAN sh#t from areas like Maple, AF, Joe's, Happies, Rifle, RRG, etc than he ever left.
Give that pooch a smooch. lol
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Apr 26, 2013 - 12:35am PT
I live in auburn, and run in the canyon past the quarry many times each week. What a sh#t show the climbers have brought to the area. Dogs chasing/killing geese is definitely worth a call to the rangers. I forgot how sweet it was to have the place off limits. Climbers will get it shut down again soon and the locals can't wait.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 2, 2013 - 07:06am PT
http://shine.yahoo.com/pets/tips-living-aggressive-dogs-190100281.html
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
May 2, 2013 - 10:41am PT
Commands all dogs should know, in no particular order;

OFF
Leave it

Those 2 cover a bunch, including not jumping on people or bothering others things, dogs and or wildlife.

No Dirt! Stops digging and playing dogs from kicking it up.

Back, as in stay behind me going up hill on scree or talus
Go, as in go ahead of me going down scree
Care-ful, meaning watch were you step, loose rocks or a cliff

STOP! Might just keep your dog from getting killed by any number of things.

Pee-pee &
Poo-poo. Yup, my dog knew these and I would ask him to go at the trail head. Give him a few minutes to get it out. If I caught him dumping, usually within 100' of leaving the car, I'd yell at him, "OFF the trail, bad dog!" And he'd bound into the brush and finish while I kicked it off the trail making yucky sounds, or "Gross!" Most times, he would go off trail on his own. Like others have mentioned, poop is everywhere, I only pick it up if it is in a high-use area. With a 100lb dog though, management was a better option.

And of course the normal

Sit. Not cower or belly flop. If this happens, your being too rough.

Stay. For as long as necessary. This one takes lots of practice. Make it a game and make it a REALLY BIG DEAL of how good they have been.

Down. Not lie down, 2 word commands are confusing, also do not use down to stop jumping up dogs, use OFF.

Come. Always, always praise a dog for coming to you, no matter WHAT they have just been up to. At the very most, say nothing, clip on the leash and be done with it)

Heel

Don't EVER let them chase anything live. Toys, yes. If your dog has ever killed anything, they will never be reliable off leash again. Learned this one the hard way.

All of these commands should be taught as hand signals pretty much right away.

Drop on recall is another important one that can be made into a fun game.

Dogs & packs. Dogs left with an owners pack will almost always guard it. Put your pack and your dog well away from the base of routes in a nice spot for the dog to hang so he's not tempted to wander. Even if you are just TRing or single pitching it.

If your not willing to put the time and energy into teaching your dog to be a well behaved member of society, don't have a dog, get a cat.
Dogs really are much happier when they know exactly what is expected of them.

Feel free to PM me with questions.

Edited to add one more;

I forgot about teaching them to bark on command. I use the hand signal of someone yakking, no voice. Counter-intuitivly, this is a great command to teach barkers. Because, once they get there is a command for barking, they figure out there is a command to STOP barking pretty quick.

Quiet. said in a very low voice. Don't ever yell at a barking dog, you sound like your barking too and they won't get it unless you resort to beating them. (ugh)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 2, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Most humans don't know what half of that means.

My dog knows: "NO!" Which rhymes with "GO!" Which basically means stop whatever you are doing and get the fuk out of here. I can't think of any circumstance where anyone else would ever need to give my dog any other command.

He also knows: "FUK OFF!"

and "HEY" or a big arm wave which means follow me, look at me, me, me, me. He is deaf, so the sign language is coming in handy these days.

He stays with a firm point to his current location.

and "OTHER SIDE" for when I am riding my bike and I want him... yep, on the other side. Took a couple times to figure out he needs to cross behind me, but we worked through it.

I gave up on trying to make him come a long time ago.


Oh, and my dog has kill numerous squirrels, birds, lizards, rabbits, and mice... so has my car. He is a hunting dog, that is what WE breed them to do for centuries. Hardly seems fair to try and make them stop now.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
May 2, 2013 - 11:18am PT
^^^eye roll


yup, problem humans

hunting dogs aren't pets

dogs that kill wildlife belong on a leash or left at home.
this just in

climber
north fork
May 2, 2013 - 11:27am PT
You do realize that the gray wolf is the common ancestor to all domestic dogs, right? Life feeds on life.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 2, 2013 - 11:46am PT


"Commands all dogs should know"...


"Stay HOME!!!"...


and...


"See ya!!!"...
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2013 - 11:48am PT
Frackin' mutts are using up the oxygen at the bolt parks. Killem all.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 2, 2013 - 11:51am PT


Commands Philo should know...


"Stay home!!!"...

and...

"See ya!!!"...


LOL!!!...

;-)

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2013 - 11:54am PT
But Locker, iffn I stay home how will I see ya?
WOOF!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 2, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Can I take my dog to the woods?


































photo not found
Missing photo ID#299703
rincon

Trad climber
SoCal
May 2, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
Cookie enjoys a day at the crag.
Credit: rincon
No dog haters here...good!
Credit: rincon
Lets eat!
Credit: rincon
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
May 2, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
Stoney I'm a dog person, these guys go with me most places.
Credit: FRUMY
I'm a 100% responsible for them & their action.

This is not about climbing.

You should have called the police or rangers immediately.

Canada Geese are protected by the "Migratory bird treaty". The fines & jail time are heavy. Just being caught with their feathers is a crime.

This was not a dog problem. It is a human problem.

Aidan, I give you lots of credit for coming forward. We all make mistakes.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 6, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
Eye roll... mock masturbatorial actions...

Hunting dogs are awesome pets. They bring you tons of mice and other small mammals all the time and leave them in your shoes.

Cuddly pibbles are great too. Especially when they bark at dog haters at the crag.


The NUMBER 1 factor causing the vast majority of impacts at every single crag across the country is HUMANS, not dogs. Stay at home fukheads.
TheTye

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
May 6, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
My buddy just told me a great story about belaying a guy he just met in the Leap parking lot and the guy's dog ate some couple's sandwiches out of their bag... and the guy was screaming at himthe whole time he was in the crux 50' up... not my buddy's dogs or sandwiches. .. but stuck right in the middle of the bullsh1#.
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
May 6, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
Gotta love dogs... but idiot owners are the problem not the
pooches .... why is it that it's usually the Dbag owners
that show up at the crag and piss people off , they should
be kicked in the ass till their nose bleeds and have their
beer taken away. Dogs are a pleasure when they are behaved,
leashed and the owners are responsible.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
May 6, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
The Tye, that dog was teaching proper & improper food storage.

He or she was only doing what any responsible person would have done.

There are Bears in them mountains. Someone has to keep us idiots in line.

Better a dog, than a rodent with plague infested flees.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 6, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
word FRUMY!

I lost a good pack (1987 Lowe Alpine) to squirrels (not Squirrel) at the Leap back in 1999. If a dog had been kind enough to teach me that lesson earlier I would still be carrying it today.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 6, 2013 - 06:55pm PT


A few days back we were walking past these fellow "Climbers" and their dog and as we got closer the owner came over and warned us that her dog was mean and WOULD bite...

Seriously...

WHAT THE FUK is wrong with some people???...

Leave the fuking dogs at HOME!!!...



Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 6, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
Yeah, some people need to leave the pooches at home. Not me though ;).

My dog's good though. She'll only bite you if you're a repubtard.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 6, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
In all fairness, I would expect my girlfriend to tell you the same about me if she saw the likes of you walking around Locker... it is the responsible thing to do.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 6, 2013 - 07:07pm PT


^^^

LOL!!!...

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 6, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
Wait, you aren't supossed to bring your dogs climbing?

I missed the memo.

If my dogs piss you off it's absolutely your fault.
ground_up

Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
May 6, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
years ago while walking along the base of the crag ,
a dog growled n went for my leg , out of instinct I
kicked it in the teeth ...told the owner I'd do the
same to him if he didn't pull his head out of his ass.

Bummer is I felt horrible about hurtin that pup ..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 6, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
No doubt there are bad dogs out there. I almost kicked a dog in the head at the Buttmilks around Thanksgiving time. I asked whose dog it was and nobody in the crowd of 20 spoke up. I said "get your dog before it gets a kick in the fuking head." Nobody did anything. I protected my dog, the object of its obsession, with my pad and positioned myself appropriately. The dog backed off... the owners still did nothing.

I've lost my cool at Owens over an aggressive dog too. The owners were initially pretty casual about their dog being aggressive towards my dog. After my 3rd complaint and some harsh words they got their dog under control. Definitely puts a damper on the day having to cuss out strangers.

Still, I like 99% of the dogs at the crags and would rather have to bust some skulls than not have the lovey pups out there.
FreeCoffee

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
May 9, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
This article was recently in The Sunrunner Magazine and it was written with Joshua Tree in mind, but still applicable to other crags:

10 Reasons to Leave Your Dog At Home

While dogs are allowed in Joshua Tree National Park, their activities are restricted. They must be on a leash at all times and cannot be more than 100 feet from a road, picnic area, or campground. They are prohibited from trails, and they must never be left unattended Ė especially in a vehicle.

1. The native animals in Joshua Tree have priority over domesticated dogs and are protected by the National Park Service.

2. Dogs are instinctual hunters.
They are closely related to wolves and coyotes. Unlike their wild counterparts, domesticated dogs get enough calories served to them at home and come to the park fueled to run and chase. The menu in the desert is scarce and natives donít always have extra calories to spare. Expending them in a chase can be the difference between life and death. They can also sense predators. The mere presence of a dog stresses them and alters their daily routines. Even though studies have shown that some animals eventually get accustomed to the presence of dogs on well-traveled trails, because they get used to predictable dog behaviors; that is not true for desert bighorn sheep, bobcats, and mule deer. These animals will always see your dog as a threat.

3. Domesticated dogs have attacked big horn sheep in Joshua Tree NP. An incident occurred at 49 Palms Oasis in 1968 where 4 unleashed dogs cornered and killed a ram.

4. Desert heat can be deadly to your pet.
Park temperatures peak at over 100⁰ F, turning the inside of your car into an oven. Even on mildly warm days, when the temperature is 72⁰, the temperature in a car can be more than 100⁰, causing severe injury and death to animals. Plus, California State Law (597.7) prohibits leaving an animal in a car unattended in conditions that endanger its health or well-being. If a law enforcement officer sees an animal in a car that appears to be suffering, this law allows him to do whatever is necessary to remove the animal from the car.

5. Diseases can be passed both ways.
Your dog can contract distemper or pass it on to a wild animal via contact with infected bodily fluids like saliva, urine and feces. Common symptoms of distemper are runny nose, vomiting and diarrhea, dehydration, excessive salivation, coughing and/or labored breathing, loss of appetite, and weight loss. A population of kit fox near the parkís southeast boundary recently contracted distemper most likely from a dog at an I-10 wayside. Unfortunately many of them died. Remember - You can take your dog to be treated for distemper, but the Parkís wildlife does not have that luxury.

6. Dog waste poses the same disposal problems as human waste.
It is unsightly and gross Ė and leaving it in a plastic bag alongside the trail is just as bad. In the desert, fecal waste piles up faster than it decomposes. Its high nitrogen and phosphorous content also has negative effects on soils, watersheds, and plants. Wild animals will sniff feces out of natural curiosity and can contract pathogens from doing it. Parvovirus has been cited as the cause of high wolf pup mortality in Glacier National Park during the 1990s.

7. Dogs are natural diggers.
Dogs digging in Joshua Tree National Park have huge negative impacts on the native wildlife Ė especially on the federally listed species, the desert tortoise. Approximately, three tortoises per km ≤ live within the parkís boundaries, and dogs have been known to dig them out of their burrows. Other small mammals, like pocket gophers and kangaroo rats also build their homes beneath the sand.

8. For your dogís safety.
Your dog could encounter 25 different kinds of snakes Ė including 7 types of rattlesnakes. A bite from any one these rattlers could be lethal. Remember that snakes do not go after domesticated dogs because they ďfeel like itĒ. If they do coil and attempt to strike, itís only because they feel threatened and are defending themselves. Coyotes are predators, too. Packs of coyotes have been seen surrounding and attacking domesticated dogs. Almost every plant in the desert has something sharp on it. Cholla spines are hooked Ė like a fishhook Ė and are especially difficult to remove from a dogís paw, making them suffer needlessly.

9. You will see less wildlife if you are walking with your dog.
Studies have shown that small mammals, like the western Mojave ground squirrel or dusky chipmunk, make their burrows farther away from trails that allow dogs than trails that donít. Big horn sheep, mule deer, bobcats, and coyotes will avoid areas where dogs are common.

10. Not everyone likes dogs.
Your canine companion may be a model of good behavior, but not all dog owners are responsible trainers. Many people, especially children, are frightened by dogs, even small ones.

Please think ten times before bringing your dog to Joshua Tree National Park or to any public lands. Each park has its own rules Ė as a dog owner you are responsible for knowing them before you hit the trail. Information can be found on park websites and at park visitor centers.
http://www.nps.gov/jotr/faqs.htm

Sources:
Joshua Tree National Park Wildlife Biologists, personal communication, March 2013.
Lenth, B. E., Knight, R. L., & Brennan, M. E. (2008). The effects of dogs on wildlife communities. (28 ed., Vol. 3, pp. 218-227). Natural Areas Association. Retrieved from http://www.bioone.org
Miller, S. G., Knight, R. L., & Miller, C. K. (2001).Wildlife responses to pedestrians and dogs. (1 ed., Vol. 29, pp. 124-132). Wildlife Society Bulletin.
Taylor, A. R., Knight, R. L., & , (2003). Wildlife responses to recreation and associated visitor perceptions. (13 ed., Vol. 4, pp. 951-963). Ecological Society of America.
Dogs In Parks. Retrieved March 13, 2013 from www.us-parks.com/joshua-tree-national-park/dogs-in-parks.htm
Canine Distemper. Retrieved March 13, 2013 from www.wikipedia.org/wiki/canine-distemper
California Penal Code 597.7. Retrieved February 9, 2013 from www.theanimalcouncil.com/files/CA_PENAL_CODE_SECTION_597.pdf
scooter

climber
fist clamp
May 9, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
I would say the best thing to do would not be such a cry baby. Do you think your made in china climbing gear and completely useless sport are more environmentally friendly than the dog eating a few geese? Hilarious lack of in-sight into your own actions.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
http://news.yahoo.com/california-woman-fatally-mauled-four-pit-bulls-officials-224141248.html
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 9, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
The pit bull scare. Nice.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
any time you have 3 or more dogs running free unsupervised they can get pack mentality regardles of breed. I have seen golden retrivers, a mom and her 2 adult pups running deer and makeing a kill that ended up in our back yard. Unsupervised pitts are simply insane.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/2-year-old-boy-killed-by-pit-bull-in-georgia-dog-was-longtime-family-pet/
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
http://www.wistv.com/story/21812748/2-year-old-girl-killed-by-7-pit-bulls-in-ellabell
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
dog bite-related fatality research.
2011 statistics2

31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011.3 Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 600 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.4
Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.
The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4), the number two lethal dog breed, accounted for 84% of all fatal attacks in 2011. In the 7-year period from 2005 to 2011, this same combination accounted for 74% (157) of the total recorded deaths (213).
The breakdown between pit bulls and rottweilers is substantial over this 7-year period. From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 29; about one citizen every 88 days.
Annual data from 2011 shows that 58% (18) of the attacks occurred to adults (21 years and older) and 42% (13) occurred to children (11 years and younger). Of the children, 62% (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.
2011 data also shows that 39% (12) of the fatal incidents involved more than one dog; 26% (8) involved breeding on the dog owner's property either actively or in the recent past, and 6% (2) involved tethered dogs, down from 9% in 2010 and 19% in 2009.
Dog ownership information for 2011 shows that family dogs comprised 65% (20) of the attacks that resulted in death; 74% (23) of all incidents occurred on the dog owner's property and 29% (9) resulted in criminal charges, up from 15% in 2010.
The states of California and Texas led fatalities in 2011, each with 4 deaths; pit bulls and their mixes contributed to 88% (7) of the 8 deaths. North Carolina, New Mexico, South Carolina and Virginia each incurred 2 deaths.
See: 7-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Chart (2005 to 2011)
See: Full news release

2011 U.S. dog bite fatalities 2011 fatal dog attacks by breed
2011 dog bite fatality chart

In 2011, one fatality involved dogs from up to four different dog breeds, thus producing a "death credit" total of 33 rather than 31. Up to seven dog breeds contributed to one death: Alaskan malamute, American bulldog, "bulldog" (American or English not specified), cane corso, doberman pinscher, German shepherd and Japanese akita.
2011 victims
fatal pit bull attack Linda Leal
Linda Leal
51-years old | Colusa, CA

Linda Leal, 51-years old, was mauled to death by her pit bull-mix. Her husband, Enrique Leal, discovered her shortly after 7 am in the couple's backyard. One pit bull, with a history of violent behavior, was penned up in the yard. The couple's other dog, a pit bull-mix, was loose and found with blood on it. Arriving firefighters found extensive head and neck injuries "consistent with a dog attack." An autopsy later determined that Leal was alive during the mauling. As of January 7, officials did not know the time of death and are awaiting a toxicology report. Sheriff's Lt. Shane Maxey said the tests were needed to ensure that she "didn't have something in her system that put her in that position." Yet, police also said that there was no indication of foul play or a sign of struggle at the scene. Leal had been battling liver cancer at the time of her death. [source citations]
Date of death: January 4, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
fatal pit bull attack Makayla Woodard
Makayla Woodard
5-years old | Waxhaw, NC

Makayla Woodard, 5-years old, was killed by two pit bulls while in her front yard. Her grandmother, Nancy Presson, was severely injured trying to protect her. Michael Gordon, a convicted felon, owned both pit bulls. Neighbors said they had complained many times about Gordon's dogs running loose. Police said they warned Gordon at Christmas -- just a few weeks earlier -- to keep his dogs contained. At the time, Gordon admitted that his dogs, Rebel and Daisy, often managed to "hop the fence." Residents of Waxhaw were devastated by the incident. Hundreds attended Makayla's funeral, which began with the little girl's body carried in a horse drawn cart. After the funeral, town commissioners set up a panel to study the existing dog control law and to determine how to better handle potentially dangerous dogs. On January 26, Gordon turned himself into police after being charged with involuntary manslaughter. [source citations]
Date of death: January 12, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (2) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal dog attack, Kristen Dutton
Kristen Dutton
9-years old | Modoc, SC

Kristen Dutton, 9-years old, was bitten in the neck and killed by a 98-pound Japanese akita. Her grandfather, Mickey Abercrombie, had purchased the dog three weeks earlier for his grandchildren who lived at his Modoc home. The seller of the dog was not named, nor did any discussion arise in the media concerning why Abercrombie purchased an akita as for his grandchildren; a breed with a well known heritage of dogfighting and guarding. Prior to the fatal incident, Kristen had taken the dog for a walk by herself. While playing with the dog near its kennel afterward, the animal attacked. Unfortunately, Kristen's brother discovered her motionless body first. Kristen Dutton was a fourth grader at Merriwether Elementary school and adored animals. She hoped to one day become a veterinarian, according to her grandmother Janice Abercrombie. The new akita was the first and last pet Kristen ever had. [source citations]
Date of death: January 22, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Japanese akita Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Grandfather
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Ronnie Waldo
51-years old | Randolph, MS

Ronnie Waldo, 51-years old, was killed by three pit bulls owned by his neighbor, James Swanson. Waldo had been renting a nearby property from Swanson and was discovered by a friend in Swanson's front yard. Police shot and killed two of the pit bulls on the scene. Just before the attack, Waldo and his friend Raymond Blansett had been trying to fix a hot water heater in Waldo's trailer; they needed a relay switch to complete the task. Waldo walked over to Swanson's house to see if he had one in his garage. When he did not return, Blansett went to find him. He found his friend on the ground with two pit bulls tearing at him. The third dog went after Blansett, who had to run up the road to escape. Pontotoc County has neither a leash law nor a vicious dog ordinance and the attack occurred on the dog owner's property. Despite these issues, a special grand jury charged him with manslaughter. [source citations]
Date of death: January 26, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (3) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal dog attack, Sirlinda Hayes
Sirlinda Hayes
66-years old | Dillon County, SC

Sirlinda Hayes, 66-years old, was gardening just outside her one-story home when two loose rottweilers viciously attacked. The dogs, owned by her cousin and neighbor Shawn Samuel, had roamed loose many times before, but had not been a problem, according to family members. Yet on February 17, the two dogs launched a brutal attack upon Sirlinda killing her. When the dogs' owner learned what happened, he rushed out to help Sirlinda. His own two dogs then turned on him, launching a second attack. When emergency responders arrived, the dogs would not let them near the victims. Deputies shot and killed both animals. Animal control later removed three additional rottweilers from Samuel's home. Badly injured, Samuel was rushed to McLeod Medical Center in Dillon. In addition to suffering many bite wounds, doctors were forced to amputate one of his legs. Billy Odom, Sirlinda's nephew, said he believed "seeing the garden hoe" held by his aunt may have caused the dogs to attack. [source citations]
Date of death: February 17, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Rottweiler (2) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Cousin
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Pending
Darius Tillman
15-days old | Kalamazoo, MI

Darius Tillman, 15-days old, was mauled to death by the family pit bull as he lay sleeping. At the time of the incident, the victim's mother, his 2-year old sibling and two pet pit bulls were at the home. Police reported that the mother laid her infant down for a nap in a bassinette and fell asleep in another room. One of the pit bulls pushed open the bedroom door and mauled the baby to death. Animal control euthanized the young male dog after the incident. It's unknown what became of the second household pit bull. Jeff Hadley, Kalamazoo Public Safety Chief, called the incident a "tragic accident," echoing the same distortion voiced by pro-pit bull groups. About four months later, and after the Kalamazoo Gazette gained the final incident report under the state Freedom of Information Act, it was learned that detectives sought charges of involuntary manslaughter against the child's mother, Mallory Wildig, but the Kalamazoo County Prosecutorís Office declined to pursue. [source citations]
Date of death: February 19, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Mother
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Vanessa Husmann
Vanessa Husmann
3-years old | Hopkinton, IA

Vanessa Husmann, 3-years old, was mauled to death by her grandfather's two rottweilers that were being kept at her home. Just before the attack, she had gone into the backyard to play where the dogs were kept separated in a secure kennel. Her 18-year old half brother was babysitting her at the time, but it was Blake Muller, who was visiting his mother's home across the street, who witnessed the attack and ran to help. The victim's mother, Rhonda Marty, later told reporters that she did not know how the dogs escaped their kennel (she issued a statement on TV that the gate was "still locked" after the incident too). But on Sunday, a day after the little girl's death, family members used a large tractor to destroy and remove the kennel, leaving no future way to make this determination. Police said the dogs were usually kept in Monticello at the grandfather's home where he breeds "family oriented" AKC registered champion rottweilers, according to his website. [source citations]
Date of death: March 6, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Rottweiler (2) Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Grandfather
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Jennie Erquiaga
47-years old | San Bernardino, CA

Jennie Erquiaga, 47-years old, died at her home in the 200 block of West 16th Street on March 6th after being attacked by her dog. Police received a report of the dog attack at 10:19 pm, according to San Bernardino police Lt. Jarrod Burguan. The victim's dog, a pit bull-mix, bit both of Erquiaga's arms, her left leg and shoulder. People in the house fought with the dog and then locked it in a room. Police suspected other medical issues besides the bite wounds may have led to her death. In December 2011, DogsBite.org requested Erquiaga's cause of death from the San Bernardino County Coroner's Office. The office confirmed that her death was due to "physiologic stress from multiple dog bites" in addition to underlying medical issues. [source citations]
Date of death: March 6, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Unknown
Larry Armstrong
55-years old | McKinley County, NM

Larry Armstrong, 55-years old, was mauled to death by a pack of dogs last December. The Office of the Medical Investigator did not release a report confirming his death being "due to dog bites" until the following March. The attack occurred in the small community of Sundance, on Navajo Nation land near Gallup. McKinley County deputies found Armstrong lying unconscious along the side of a road with the dogs mauling him. They had to pepper spay the animals to keep them away while EMTs attended to the victim. He was later pronounced dead at a hospital. The Office of the Medical Investigator determined that dog bites killed Armstrong, and that he may have suffered a seizure before the attack, rendering him unconscious when the mauling began. As of April 26, 2011, authorities know who the offending dogs are and have sent out samples for examination. A complaint may be filed against the owners of the dogs. [source citations]
Date of death: December 8, 2010 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Unknown Relationship to dog: Unknown
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Unknown
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Pending
Annabella Mitchell
7-months old | Frankfort, ME

Annabella Mitchell, 7-months old, was mauled to death by the family's pet rottweiler, named Hannibal. At the time of the incident, Annabella was at home with her mother and two-and-a-half-year old brother. The little girl's mother, Katrina Mitchell, said she found her baby being attacked in the living room of her home. Stephen McCausland, a spokesman for the Maine Department of Public Safety, confirmed that the child's mother called 911 saying, "the dog had attacked her daughter." Emergency responders found the baby dead when they arrived at the residence. The dog was later shot and killed by a Waldo County deputy at the request of the baby's father, John Mitchell. A team of state police spent the night inside the Mitchell home gathering evidence and conducting interviews. On July 13, 2011 Maine State Police arrested 29-year old Katrina Mitchelle and charged her with endangering a child. [source citations]
Date of death: April 12, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Rottweiler Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Parents
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal pit bull attack, Virgil Cantrell
Virgil Cantrell
50-years old | Ardmore, OK

Virgil Cantrell, 50-years old, was horribly attacked by a tethered pit bull that he had visited on previous occasions. The pit bull, named Ike, along with four other pit bulls -- including at least two breeding females -- belonged to Rickey and Lisa Grant. When Cantrell stopped by the Grant's house on the evening of April 22, the two were not home. He stayed on the porch with the tethered pit bull and wound up being killed by it. An 11-year old boy, who had been bitten by the same dog about 30 days earlier, saw the attack and ran to get help. Arriving officers had to shoot and kill the aggressive pit bull to allow EMTs to reach the victim. Cantrell died while being driven by an ambulance to a hospital in Dallas, Texas. He would have been airlifted, but planes were grounded due to weather conditions. Authorities later charged both dog owners with felony offenses. [source citations]
Date of death: April 22, 2011 Chained: Yes
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Unkown Owner of dog: Friend
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal pit bull attack, Margaret Salcedo
Margaret Salcedo
48-years old | Truth or Consequences, NM

Margaret Salcedo, 48-years old, was brutally killed by four pit bulls while taking a walk on Easter Sunday. A passerby in a car opened his door to intervene, but he stayed in the vehicle after the pit bulls charged him. The man watched helplessly as the dogs savaged Salcedo to death. Neighbor Laura Russell, who called 911, witnessed the same horrible scene unfold. Police officials arrived in about 3 minutes, shooting one pit bull dead and scattering the others. Like all victims of horrific dog attacks, Salcedo was conscious throughout the entire mauling. The victim died a short while later at a nearby hospital. The pit bulls belonged to John and Maria Hardiman who were not home when the incident occurred. According to Police Chief Patrick Gallagher, the Hardiman's yard was fenced, but officers found several areas where the dogs could have escaped. After initially announcing that no felony charges would be filed against the dogs' owners, the two were arrested in October and charged with five felonies. [source citations]
Date of death: April 24, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (4) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal pit bull attack, Jayelin Graham
Jayelin Graham
4-years old | Brooklyn, NY

Jayelin Graham, 4-years old, was brutally killed by a family pet whose owner dubbed a "monster dog." The animal belonged to Damien "Dread" Jones, the boyfriend of Jayelin's mother. Jones brought the dog into the home a few months before the boy's death. The 65 pound dog was reportedly a cane corso-mastiff mix, even though this type of mix would produce a dog weighing 90 to 110 pounds. A photo taken from Jones' Facebook page depicts a pit bull-cane corso mix representative of the lower weight. The pictured dog, however, might not have been Jayelin's attacker. At the time of the incident, Jayelin was alone in a bedroom with his two young brothers. The dog, named Machete, ripped out the child's neck while his siblings watched. His mother, Saquina Jubeark, said she only left the boys alone for few minutes. When she returned, she found Jayelin in the dog's jaws. Police released Jubeark after questioning and ruled the boy's death an accident. Administration for Children's Services (ACS), who had visited Jubeark's home before, "vowed to investigate" the child's death. [source citations]
Date of death: May 27, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Cane corso-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Mother's boyfriend
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
David Haigler
38-years old | Spotsylvania County, VA

David Haigler, 38-years old, was discovered dead on his living room floor with wounds to his arms, head and face. Authorities suspected that one of Haigler's two pet pit bulls mauled him to death. Lt. Col. Michael Timm of the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Office said the victim was "already under medical care for a dog bite" that happened a week earlier, but did not say whether or not one of his own dogs was responsible. An autopsy later confirmed that one of Haigler's pit bulls inflicted the fatal injuries. That pit bull was loose in the home at the time of the incident. The second pit bull was chained up in a separate part of the home. Both dogs were 6-years old. An affidavit for a search warrant filed in Spotsylvania Circuit Court stated that the living room was "in disarray and there was a wooden baseball bat on a sofa near the body." The court records also revealed that blood was on the floor, walls and furniture. The medical examiner's investigation showed that Haigler's fingers and hands suffered defensive wounds during the attack. [source citations]
Date of death: June 11, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unkown Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unkown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal pit bull attack attack, Roy McSweeney
Roy McSweeney
74-years old | Putnam County, FL

Roy McSweeney, 74-years old, was mutilated by his neighbor's two pit bulls June 10. When rescue personnel arrived, the victim's right arm had been amputated, his left arm was partially amputated and he was suffering from severe facial injuries. The disabled veteran had been working in his front yard when the dogs jumped the fence and attacked. McSweeney was rushed to Shands Hospital in Gainsville and underwent immediate surgery. The same two pit bulls, owned by Deanna Blitch, had mauled two other men in the past. Blitch told authorities after the attack on McSweeney that she no longer owned the dogs. But her son William Blitch said the dogs were in the home and brought them out to authorities. One previous dog bite victim, Robert Floyd, retained a law firm in the wake of his attack. After McSweeney succumbed to his injuries June 15, his family retained the same law firm who stated to Jacksonville.com that both victims were "completely failed" by police and laws meant to regulate dangerous dogs. In November, a Grand Jury indicted Deanna and her son on misdemeanor charges equivalent to first time Petty Theft. [source citations]
Date of death: June 15, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (2) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Yes
Salvador Cotto
6-months old | Chesterfield, VA

Salvador Cotto, 6-months old, was killed after a dog bit him on the head while visiting the home of Charles and Erin Teets. At the time, family members were in the kitchen and the baby was in a room close by. Salvador and his mother had been visiting from Seattle. Friends and neighbors described the dog, named Polar, as a deaf dogo argentino that was "quick to obey commands and hand signals from strangers." The dog turned out to be a female pit bull-American bulldog mix. The Teets adopted the animal several years earlier after being rescued from an abusive home in Atlanta. Animal rights activists quickly minimized the fatal injuries inflicted by the dog and launched an online campaign to "Save Polar" from being euthanized. Chesterfiled County Police Department remained unfazed by the effort. As soon as the Medical Examiner's Office confirmed the cause of death, "cerebral edema due to a dog bite to the head," the dog was put down. [source citations]
Date of death: June 29, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-American bulldog mix Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Female Owner of dog: Relatives
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Michael Naglee
Michael Naglee
11-months old | Nehalem, OR

Michael Naglee, 11-months old, was killed by a family dog while visiting the home of his paternal grandparents, Betty and Robert Naglee. The two invited Michael's parents and his mother's family to spend the July 4 weekend at their Nehalem home. Michael's parents also brought along the family dog, a 135 pound American bulldog, named Duncan. The couple adopted the dog from a shelter four years earlier. Just before the attack, Michael's maternal grandmother, Louisa Farmer, was sitting on a couch in the living room holding the boy. He wanted down, and just after being set down, he headed toward the dog that was resting about 7 feet away. Duncan knocked him down then attacked, according to Farmer's husband. At the time of the incident, Michael's parents were away on an outing. Sheriff's deputies said the "dog was so agitated" after they arrived that they were eventually forced to shoot it. [source citations]
Date of death: July 2, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: American bulldog Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Parents
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Darla Napora
Darla Napora
32-years old | Pacifica, CA

Darla Napora, 32-years old, was mauled to death by one of her two pet pit bulls inside her Pacifica home. At the time attack, Darla was in her sixth month of pregnancy. Her husband, Greg Napora, returned from work that day at lunchtime and discovered her body on the floor with the couple's 2-year old male pit bull hovering over it. According to Greg, Darla was an avid fan of Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pit Bulls (Bad Rap). Greg did not explain why the couple had not neutered "Gunner," as strongly recommended by the group. The pair's other pit bull was a spayed female and was not involved in the attack. Twenty-four hours after her death, Greg delivered intolerable statements to the media including: 1.) "He doesn't blame the dog," 2.) It's "not the breed's fault," 3.) "[Pit bulls] are the most loving animals I have ever had in my life," and 4.) He "plans to bury his spouse, Darla, with their pet's cremated remains in her casket." His last statement, in particular, horrified citizens across the United States.[source citations]
Date of death: August 11, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, James Dowling
James Dowling
4-years old | Ozark, AR

James Dowling, 4-years old, was killed by a rottweiler while visiting the home of his grandfather in Ozark. Police said the boy was left with friends at the home while his grandfather was away at work. At the time of the incident, James was playing in the backyard when the rottweiler jumped out of its four-foot-high chain link pen and attacked. The boy was barely breathing when first responders arrived. He was taken to a local emergency room and from there airlifted to Arkansas Children's Hospital in Little Rock. In transit, the boy's condition worsened forcing the helicopter to land immediately at Johnson Regional Medical Center in Clarksville, where he was pronounced dead. Shortly after his death, his family held a funeral for him in Hot Springs, where James had lived with this family. His grandfather, and owner of the rottweiler, was one of the pallbearers. [source citations]
Date of death: August 12, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Rottweiler Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Grandfather
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Michael Cook
Michael Cook
61-years old | Tucson, AZ

Michael Cook, 61-years old, suffered life-threatening injuries after his pet pit bull attacked him August 3. Neighbors heard the victim screaming and rushed down the alley to help. Fernando Lozano described the scene as the dog "literally eating him." Within two days, Cook underwent two surgeries and was administered 60 pints of blood. At this time, his family made a plea with the public to "replenish the blood site for the City of Tucson," as his injuries had depleted area blood banks. The family called the savage attack a "freak accident" and blamed the incident on the dog being under medicated -- earlier that day, the pit bull had been neutered. Less than two weeks later, doctors amputated both of Cook's arms and it was noted in media reports that he also suffered from liver failure and kidney damage. On August 23, twenty days after the horrific mauling, Cook succumbed to his injuries and died. [source citations]
Date of death: August 23, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Yes Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Carmen Ramos
Carmen Ramos
50-years old | Philadelphia, PA

Carmen Ramos, 50-years old, was mauled to death by her husband's five pit bulls. The victim's husband, 55-year old Jose Alvarez, told police he came home from work to discover his wife being attacked by the dogs in their living room. Eleven days earlier, the pit bulls escaped his home and attacked two neighbors, Dolores Estrella and Gus Castro. The Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (PSCPA), picked up the dogs only to return them to Alvarez three days later. Neighbors said that Alvarez had at least three run-ins with the PSPCA in the past about his dogs, including the discovery of dead dogs in his basement last year and the removal of live dogs. The potential protocol violations by the PSPCA were so numerous that City Managing Director Brian Abernathy launched an internal investigation into the group. We do not expect to hear results from the investigation anytime soon or possibly ever. [source citations]
Date of death: August 30, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (5) Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Husband
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Addyson Camerino
Addyson Camerino
9-days old | Clarkton, NC

Addyson Camerino, 9-days old, was mauled to death by a group of dogs inside his Clarkton home August 30. A baby shower had been scheduled for the infant the following day and was quickly cancelled. The boy's father, 21-year old Charles Nelson Camerino, was in jail at the time of the deadly incident. Along with the boy's mother, 18-year old Chelsea Lynn Brigman, the young couple lived with the newborn's grandparents, Nelson and Linda Camerino, uncles and an upstairs tenant at a home on North College Street. Authorities removed five dogs from the home suspected in the attack, including a pit bull, bulldog, Alaskan malamute, German shepherd and German shepherd-bulldog mix. On September 16, a special session of the Bladen County Grand Jury was convened. Bladen County Sheriff's deputies subsequently arrested Chelsea Lynn Brigman and the baby's grandfather, Nelson Camerino, charging each with involuntary manslaughter. [source citations]
Date of death: August 30, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Up to four dog breeds5 Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Family members
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
Brayden McCollen
2-weeks old | Cypress, TX

Brayden McCollen, 2-weeks old, was badly injured by the family pit bull-mix. The attack occurred in the 16500 block of Cypress Bridge Drive in Northwest Harris County. The baby was taken by LifeFlight to Memorial Herman Hospital, but died five hours later. At the time of the incident, the infant was in a swinging sleeper inside one of the rooms in the house when the large dog began sniffing the newborn then mauling him. The dog had been behind a pair of French doors, but pushed through them to reach the baby. Adults in the home heard noises from the room and rushed to help. Thomas Gilliland, a spokesman for the Harris County Sheriff's Office, said the baby's mother was outside at the time, watching him through a window. Investigators will determine whether the incident was an accident or due to negligence. As of September 18, 2011 no new information has been released. [source citations]
Date of death: September 4, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Uknown Owner of dog: Family members
Spay/Neuter: Uknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Pending
Donna Conrad
71-years old | Valley View, TX

Donna Conrad, 71-years old, was attacked and killed by her pet dog at the La Cantera Ranch Resort in Valley View, Texas. Cooke County Sheriff's Office received a call on September 16 about a woman at the resort who was discovered dead. Chief Deputy Jim Carter said, "It appears she was in the backyard watering and one of the pets -- a doberman pinscher -- is believed to have attacked her and, ultimately, killed her." At the time of the incident, a couple of other women were in the victim's home, but were unaware of what was going on in the backyard. Sheriff Mike Compton said he believes the doberman pincher was imported from Hungary and had been trained to protect humans. The womanís injuries include deep head and throat lacerations, he said, adding, "It was a brutal attack." The dog was quarantined at a local veterinarian. It was later put down after testing negative for rabies. [source citations]
Date of death: September 16, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Doberman pinscher Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal dog attack, Nevaeh Bryant
Nevaeh Bryant
20-months old | West Haven, CT

Nevaeh Bryant, 20-months old, was killed by three pit bulls while visiting her aunt, Erica Hobdy. The child's great grandmother, Dolores Leonard, said the baby's mother, Samantha Leonard, 20, left the child with Hobdy at the home on Leete Street. "She was put down for a nap and for some reason, Hobdy left her and was going out when she realized she left her pocketbook in her bedroom." Hobdy sent her 10-year old son to get the pocketbook. "He went into the room where his mother had put the pit bulls, but didn't shut the door behind him," she said. The dogs then attacked Nevaeh who was sleeping in another room while her aunt was away. At the time of the incident, Hobdy was being sued by a postal worker for injuries inflicted by a different pit bull she owned in 2009. In December 2011, Hobdy was charged with criminally negligent homicide, first-degree reckless endangerment and risk of injury to a minor. [source citations]
Date of death: September 30, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (3) Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Aunt
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
Fatal dog attack, Mya Maeda
Mya Maria Maeda
11-days old | Amarillo, TX

Mya Maeda, 11-days old, was snatched from her bassinet in the middle of the night by the family dog and fatally injured. At about 3 am, while Mya's 20-year old mother, Monique Hernandez, slept beside her on the couch, her mother said she woke up and began searching around in the dark for her baby. Her hands couldn't find the infant, but could feel Rocky, the family's large pit bull-mastiff mix. She next felt the baby's head in the dog's mouth. Hernandez pried the dog's jaws open and pulled Mya out and began screaming for her mother. The infant died at 9:20 am that morning due to head trauma from the attack. Several authorities began investigations following the infant's death including Child Protective Services and Special Crimes Unit. Mya's aunt, Sue Glenn, later pleaded with the public to "stop attacking the baby's mother" and also requested that investigating officials be "understanding" toward the family. [source citations]
Date of death: October 3, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mastiff mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Family members
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Pending
Fatal dog attack, Edna Dyson
Edna Dyson
71-years old | Houston, TX

Edna Dyson, 71-years old, died from serious injuries inflicted by two pit bulls. On November 9, Edna went to a rental property she owned on Swiss Lane in South Houston to tend to the yard. The neighbor's two pit bulls dug under the fence and attacked her. She managed to crawl to her car and climb inside and wait for help, but she remained undiscovered for two hours. First responders rushed her to the hospital where she remained in critical care until she succumbed to her injuries and died November 15. The Harris County District Attorney's Office declined to press criminal charges against the owner of the two pit bulls because the owner "put the dogs down" after the attack and the owner "was in the process" of putting in a fence. The decision devastated Edna's husband, Billy Dyson, and her two daughters, Regina and Lawanda, who called her death a "homicide." Edna had been a teacher for the Houston Independent School District (HISD) for 33 years and was basketball coach too -- Coach Dyson. [source citations]
Date of death: November 15, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (2) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: No
Joseph Hines
58-years old | Burnettsville, IN

Joseph Hines, 58-years old, was mauled to death by his pet pit bull named Honey. A family member discovered his body; Hines lived on the family member's farm in Burnettsville. An autopsy confirmed that Hines died after his dog bit into his jugular vein and that he had no underlying medical conditions. The victim also had defensive bite wounds on his arms, indicating that he had tried to fend off the animal. The victim's sister, Shirley Silkey, 60, was close to her brother and said, "He always loved his dogs. He found this dog and took care of it. I guess the dog just lost it." Silkes added that Hines had owned the male dog for about four or five years and that she wasn't aware if the dog was aggressive or had behavioral problems. One neighbor reported that he often saw Hines walking his pet pit bull and characterized the dog as "friendly." Honey was put down. [source citations]
Date of death: December 3, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Tonia Parks
39-years old | Rockford, IL

Tonia Parks, 39-years old, died from her injuries after being attacked by one of her two 8-year old pit bulls. Parks was attacked by her pit bull as she suffered a seizure on November 18. Parks remained in critical care at Rockford Memorial Hospital after the incident and succumbed to her injuries December 6. Winnebago County Coroner Sue Fiduccia said the Rockford woman suffered injuries to her head and that her jugular vein was bitten. A family member told investigators she had run out of the home that day in an attempt to find help for Parks as she suffered a medical crisis. When she returned, she found Parks being viciously attacked by one of her pit bulls. The other dog attacked the pit bull that was mauling Parks, according to Jennifer Stacey, deputy director of Winnebago County Animal Services. Both animals were put down. [source citations]
Date of death: December 6, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Misti Wyno
40-years old | Valdosta, GA

Misti Wyno, 40-years old, was brutally attacked and killed by her neighbor's pit bull. Wyno was reportedly "close" with her neighbor Bobby Joe Courson, the owner of the dog. At the time of the incident, Wyno was on her way to visit Courson's home when the male pit bull broke free of its chain and attacked her. Neighbors had called animal control three times in the past about this pit bull; Courson owned three other pit bulls as well. In September, a different pit bull owned by Courson bit a 5-year old boy. The boy's father, James Sharp, said: "I've even told the district attorneys and everybody at the aggressive dog hearing, if these dogs get out somebody was going to get killed." That pit bull was later released back to Courson. Both pit bulls were put down after the mauling death of Wyno. As of December 14, 2011, no charges have been filed. [source citations]
Date of death: December 8, 2011 Chained: Yes
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: Unkown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Pending
Fatal dog attack, Emako Mendoza
Emako Mendoza
76-years old | San Diego, CA

Emako Mendoza, 76-years old, was savagely mauled by her neighbor's two pit bulls while in her backyard on June 18. The dogs broke through a gap in the fence to attack. Emako suffered a heart attack during the assault and afterward, the amputation of her lower left arm and left leg. Both dogs, 6-year old female pit bulls, were seized along with eleven puppies and put down. The owners of the dogs, Alba Cornelio, 39, and her daughter Carla Cornelio, 19, were each charged with two felonies for owning dogs that caused serious bodily injury. Prosecutors also sought and received a no contact order barring the dogs' owners from having contact with the victim and her husband. Due to complications of her traumatic injuries, in addition to the amputation of her right leg months after the attack, Emako died on Christmas Eve. After her death, prosecutors added new charges of involuntary manslaughter and death from a mischievous animal. [source citations]
Date of death: December 24, 2011 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (2) Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Female Owner of dog: Neighbors
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: Off Criminal charges: Yes
Additional victims
Deaths involving non-dog bite injury, minor dog bite injury or cases that lacked a "reasonably clear" determination of death due to dog bite injury are not included in DogsBite.org statistical fatality data. Victims falling into the latter category may be added at a future time.

01/26/11: Howard James Paul, 76-years old (Socorro, TX)
04/17/11: Cary Grant Sr., 56-years old (Sullivan, OH)
07/15/11: Robert Walker, 53-years old (Jackson, MS)
07/27/11: Jesse Porter, 89-years old (Hayward, CA)
10/13/11: David Shahda, 47-years old (New York, NY)
11/23/11: Keith Trout, 60-years old (York City, PA)

DogsBite.org contains verifiable information about U.S. citizens killed by dogs including the name and age of each victim, location of attack, dog breed and up to 18 other factors. Information was gathered through media accounts that were available at the time of the attack or found through Internet archives, including, but not limited to, Google News Archive and AccessMyLibrary. Each fatality also lists "source citations," which links to its related citations.
Portions of the combined data (from 2005 to 2011) was updated February 18, 2012 to include revised 2006 data.
Larry Armstrong died on December 8, 2010, but his death was not attributed to dog bites until March 2011. Larry's death is included in the 2011 dog bite fatality statistical data and excluded from 2010.
2011 data from Animal People (More Adoptions Will Not End Shelter Killing of Pit Bulls, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, October 2011) scales back the total population of pit bulls from 5% (Decade of Adoption Focus Fails to Reduce Shelter Killing, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, July/August 2009) to less than 5%, specifically to 3.3% of the total U.S. dog population.
Each dog breed was counted once in contributing to this death.

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Three year fatal dog attack study 2006 to 2008Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008 Ľ

One year study police shootings of dangerous pit bullsReport: U.S. Police and Citizen Shootings of Pit Bulls 2008 Ľ

Video of pit bull attack victims in 85-day periodVideo of Attack Victims: U.S. Pit Bull Attacks in 85-Day Period Ľ

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By 2016, pit bulls are projected to maul 275 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.
Fatalpitbullattacks.com, 2013

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 9, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
Tradmanclimbs! Thanks for the list of fatal dog attacks.


Heidi & I have both been recently attacked by dogs ------and we like dogs------but we don't trust strange dogs anymore.


Why should we trust any dog at a climbing area?

Leave your aggressive dog home!

Please!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
Reading the individual stories is haunting. i noticed in 2012 that there was a fatal attack by a lab mix and annother by a golden retriver mix. they were not all rottys and pitts.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 9, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Can I bring my dog?
Credit: kennyt
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
Mable McCallister
84-years old | Cleveland, TN

Mable McCallister, 84-years old, was attacked by her grandson's pit bull on December 18, 2011. Police officers said that she was bitten in her face and neck. The injuries caused her hospitalization in Erlanger hospital's trauma unit for over four days, according to Bradley County Medical Examiner Dr. Jeffery Miller. Mable died on New Year's Eve while in hospice care. The owner of the pit bull, Jerry Harrison, Jr., lived on his father's property where several other pit bulls were kept. No one from the Harrison family called police or animal control after the attack. "We became aware of the dog attack only after Ms. McCallister was brought to Erlanger," Officer Evie West said. The Harrisons also "home-quarantined" the pit bull after the incident; it's unknown if the dog was ever put down. The victim's great-granddaughter left a message at the news article: "A woman, an amazing woman dies from this dog and nothing is being done about it." [source citations]
Date of death: December 31, 2011 Chained: Unknown
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Grandson
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
iden McGrew
2-months old | Ridgeville, SC

Aiden McGrew, 2-months old, was killed by the family dog while his mother was away and his father was sleeping. The mother found her son after returning from a doctor's appointment with her 7-year old daughter. The other child in the household, 3-years old, was asleep with the father during the mauling. The baby was left in a "bouncy chair" by his mother before leaving to the doctor's office. Initially awake that morning, the father, Quintin McGrew, fell back asleep. The recently adopted dog, described as a golden retriever-mix, pulled the infant from the chair and severed the baby's leg during the attack. Dorchester County Coroner Chris Nesbit ruled the death a homicide and that neglect led to the boy's death by "animal eating." The father was charged with unlawful conduct toward a child, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The couple's two other children were taken into protective custody after the attack. [source citations]
Date of death: April 20, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Golden retriever-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Parents
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Yes
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 9, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
when you get a chance can you start listing all the people that were killed by drunk drivers and firearms?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 9, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
It's Wes's pitbull baby, because slobbering obsessively over a dog means you never have to say you're sorry to a human !

YAY !
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
This not a thread about guns or drunk drivers. it's a thread about dogs and everyone thinks their dog is the sweetest most harmless lovable critter on the planet. simple fact is that even very sweet lovable dogs can get weird when left unsupervised espicaly when there is more than one dog unsupervised.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 9, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
fair enough, how many climbers have been killed by dogs at the crags?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
I am a dog hater for posting the stories of people who were killed by dogs?
here is annother child.
ohn Doe
6-years old | Oak Grove, KY

John Doe, 6-years old, was mauled to death by a medical service dog that had allegedly been trained to help a Fort Campbell serviceman who suffers from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Part of the dog's training was to wake its owner up in the event he was experiencing a nightmare. Instead, the animal brutally mauled a child to death. At the time of the attack, the young boy and his family were visiting the Fort Campbell serviceman's home. The boy was outside in the backyard with the service dog, described as a "small German shepherd," when it attacked. The dog inflicted severe facial injuries to the boy. He was helicoptered to Vanderbilt University Medical Center, but did not survive. The serviceman surrendered his service dog along with two other dogs to authorities. The service dog was quickly put down. No identities were released. As of February 18, 2012, there is no new information about this incident. [source citations]
Date of death: January 30, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: German shepherd Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Unknown Owner of dog: Family friend
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: Pending
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
Two really interesting ones, both loveable family pets. Jeremiah Eskew-Shahan
1-year old | Henderson, NV

Jeremiah Eskew-Shahan, 1-year old, was killed by his grandmother's dog after celebrating his first birthday. Following a long day of opening presents, Elizabeth Keller set the toddler down in the living room. Jeremiah crawled over to the family dog, a large mastiff-Rhodesian ridgeback mix, and grabbed the dog's fur to pull himself up, as he had done many times in the past. This time, the dog clamped its jaws around the boy's head and shook him. The grandmother tried to free the boy from the dog's jaws, but could not. The mauling continued for about 30 more seconds until the boy's father rushed downstairs and managed to free him. Jeremiah did not survive his injuries. His father, Chris Shahan, was stunned by the dog's actions and told the media, "They played with each other all the time ... they kissed each other ... they slept together." The baby's death was ruled accidental by the Clark County Coroner's office. [source citations]
Date of death: April 28, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Mastiff-Rhodesian ridgeback mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Grandmother
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Fatal pit bull attack, Clifford Wright
Clifford Wright
74-years old | Santa Fe, NM

Clifford Wright, 74-years old, was discovered mauled to death by one of his pet pit bulls. The victim's son, Gavin Wright, found his body after returning from work. Gavin Wright described the male pit bull, named Achilles, as a playful and loving pet and that his father loved the dog more than even himself. "He loved the breed, he loved the dog," Gavin said. The state Office of the Medical Investigator confirmed "the injuries sustained by Mr. Wright were from the dog. There were no other medical reasons related to his death." Santa Fe Police Lt. Louis Carlos said the victim had apparently been watering plants in his front yard before the attack. Carlos said that police "walked into a death scene" that night and described the victim's injuries as "grisly." The victim kept up to six dogs at his home that he shared with his son, at least three of which were pit bulls. In 2005, Clifford Wright was bitten by a different male pit bull at his home. [source citations]
Date of death: May 2, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: No Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
May 9, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
I've had my lunch killed by a dog at the crag more than once, and my buzz killed more times than that

Don't hate 'em though

Just because you don't love 'em, don't mean you hate 'em.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 9, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
Excellent anthropomorphic projection of your world view by staring into your dog's eyes, Dick.

"My dog is so smart I can relate to it on a higher level than when I have to talk to humans".

HAHAHAHA ! ! !
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
My bosses dog Angus I trust 100% but I still would not bring him climbing. He sucks at climbing;)
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 9, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
Dogs are great & dogs are good and dogs belong in your neighborhood!

but


For the "dog-lovers" posting here!



There are a lot of folks that are very afraid of your dog at the crag.

Please try to understand that there are very good reasons why some climbers are afraid of your "beloved & sweet dog-friends."


Or are you just in doggie de-nile?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 9, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
Credit: kennyt
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
May 9, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
the lovely Ms. Bean fulfills ALL of the above stated criteria for being a crag dog. She's incredibly well behaved, highly trained, and silent.

I love her so much its crazy. But the thing is, she's not even my pooch. Her momma (my close friend) has been bogged down with crazy schoolwork for the last two semesters so I take Bean out for hikes and climbing a couple times a week to supplement her normal activity. But alas, our time is coming to an end as she'll soon be moving to Grand Junction for the summer....*sniff*

The wonderful, sweet, and beautiful Bean
The wonderful, sweet, and beautiful Bean
Credit: gonzo chemist
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 9, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
Makayla Darnell
3-days old | Monroe Township, OH

Makayla Darnell, 3-days old, died hours after being bitten on the head by the family pit bull-mix. At the time of the incident, the baby was sitting in an infant swing in her family's living room. After the attack, which occurred about 6:30 pm, the infant was driven to Blanchard Valley Hospital and then flown to St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center in Toledo. She was pronounced dead shortly after 11 pm. Lucas County Deputy Coroner Dr. Cynthia Beisser said that an autopsy showed that the baby died from blunt force injury to the head, consistent with a dog bite. The baby's mother and grandmother were in the kitchen, just a few feet away, when the attack occurred. Steve Kale, a Lucas County coroner's investigator, said the family never heard a sound from either the baby or the dog. "It all appeared to happen in a matter of seconds," Kale said. The baby's death occurred just five days before the State of Ohio abandoned its statewide pit bull law. [source citations]
Date of death: May 17, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Parents
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 9, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
but is it fair to assume the familial Fart position is agreeable to others, Dick ?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 9, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Sigh


It does appear that "some" dog owners are living

IN DENIAL!


Would you just accept that a lot of climbers are scared of your dogs?

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 10, 2013 - 12:06am PT
I don't like to argue with Dicks, so I will take your word for it on notice of scrutiny going forward.

I have had the pleasure of the company of dogs both skiing and climbing. The problems whether I registered them or not were:

- It's not my dog but I feel honour bound to defend my at the time girlfriend's mutt's behavior as an extension of my fealty to her...

- The dog itself was an as#@&%e and gleefully so. As such, I screamed at the dog for behaving accordingly and expected other people climbing to understand that screaming at animals was perfectly reasonable.

- It wasn't my or anyone I know's dog and it was content in it's conditioned justification in thinking I'm a threat and a stranger. So my leg was sweet, sweet land sushi in defense of it's owner, five pitches up.

I do like dogs though, if they do like me!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 10, 2013 - 12:07am PT
Fritz...You are living in denial...The sheep are afraid of you...You ol bugger..RJ
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 10, 2013 - 12:23am PT
I was bitten pretty good by a dog once. I'm not a f*#king pussy about it like some of y'all are. I blamed the owners, not the dog.

A dog is just mirroring your own anxiety, so start being an alpha instead of bait. (Oh, tell that to the children, the ill-supervised children, they cry).

A quick search of results from the CDC shows ~330 people killed by dogs in a 20 year period in the U.S. (16.5 people a year). However, 130 people are killed by deer per year (mostly hitting them), 53 by bee stings per year, cows kill ~20....

Log up Bessie's kills, Tradman. She'll get you before Fido. That's not even counting the coronary events she causes (dogs are much leaner meat).

Dogs at the crag turns into: Dogs, man's worst enemy? F*#k you you pansy ass f*#king hand wringers. You don't even belong at the crag if you're that stinking pussy. I have a new hobby for you, it's called watching Fox News in your soiled adult briefs.

That said, I wait for my moments with my dog at the crag, and there are a lot of BS dog owners who let their pooches fight and do every other thing while impotently pleading for their dog to mind them.

So, yeah, f*#k you too. Ha!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 10, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Dick,

Is that ice pick the Right Side of the Weeping Wall ?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 10, 2013 - 12:29am PT
Beautiful, you must have had a fun day.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 10, 2013 - 06:35am PT
I am not afraid of dogs unless there is an unsupervised pack or an agressive large dog getting in my face and am certainly not a dog hater. I simply see through the bullshit and am not under the doggs spell. Most dog owners are clueless of how their dog behaves when unsupervised. It is impossible to properly supervise your dog while you are climbing a cliff. Most dog owners seem to act as though everyone loves their dog. This is a fantasy planted in their head by their master, the dog.

I clicked on the California fatal mauling last night and then stumbled on the dogsbite.org site. it is a facinating read espicaly the stories of the individual victims.

the fact that Fatal pitt bull attacks are over 60% of all fatal attacks and pitts are only 5% of the dog population seems to be a no brainer indicator that the breed is dangerous. the fact that pitt bull owners are in denial about this is also a no brainer....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 10, 2013 - 06:45am PT
annother pitt story
Kevin Latz
50-years old | Reno, NV

Kevin Latz, 50-years old, was discovered dead at a home on the 17300 block of Bear Lake Drive after being attacked by a male pit bull, according to the Washoe County Sheriff's Office report. The victim was with a man who resided at the home who had invited him over to barbecue. While the man was in the backyard lighting the grill, Kevin stepped onto the back porch. The dog, also on the back porch, immediately attacked, according to the report. The victim retreated into the laundry room, where the dog continued biting him up and down his legs until he dropped to the ground. The dog then bit into the victim's neck. The victim died "due to asphyxia due to compression of the larynx and trachea by a canine with other significant conditions: multiple blunt force injuries inflicted by the canine," according to the report. The manner of death was determined accidental. [source citations]
Date of death: June 27, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull Relationship to dog: Non-family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Neighbor
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 10, 2013 - 06:51am PT
here is one just for dick
onnel Brown
40-years old | Cincinnati, OH

Ronnel Brown, 40-years old, died after being attacked by his own dog in his Avondale home. Ronnel called 911 just before 1:00 am stating that he had been attacked by his dog and was about to pass out. Upon arrival, paramedics were unable to treat the victim because his dog, Kilo, was "berserk, out-of-control." Police officers arrived about 10 minutes later and shot the animal dead. By that time, Brown had bled to death. According to Hamilton County Coroner Lakshmi Sammarco, Brown was on dialysis at the time of the attack and had a device in his forearm. The dog bit him in the forearm, "ripping a hole in that device, that led to a lot of blood loss," Sammarco said. She added that the bite wounds were deep. The male dog was described as an Alapaha blue-blood bulldog, which is a pit bull-bulldog mix and unrecognized by established kennel clubs. [source citations]
Date of death: July 11, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull-mix Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Male Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: No
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 10, 2013 - 06:52am PT
This one is really sad. and you guys can't simply blame the owner though you most certainly will.
23-years old | Decatur, GA

Rebecca Carey, 23-years old, was killed by one or more of the five dogs she had rescued that were under her care. Her parents issued a statement after her death, "Upon placing her first abandoned animal in a permanent loving home in 2003, she volunteered countless hours with rescue networks and animal shelters. There she did what she loved the most: rescuing animals from untenable situations to find them safe, loving homes." At the time of the attack, Carey was caring for two pit bulls, two presa canarios -- one of which she was dog-sitting for her friend Jackie Cira -- and a boxer-mix. Cira discovered her body at her home after Carey failed to show up for work at Alpharetta's Loving Hands Animal Clinic. The DeKalb County medical examiner ruled that Carey's death resulted from dog bites. It was not determined which (or if all) of the dogs participated in the attack. All five dogs were subsequently euthanized. [source citations]
Date of death: August, 12, 2012 Chained: No
Breed of dog: Pit bull (2)
Presa canario (2)
Boxer-mix (1) Relationship to dog: Family
Sex of dog: Mixed Owner of dog: Victim
Spay/Neuter: Unknown Multiple dogs: Yes
On/Off property: On Criminal charges: No
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 10, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Nice tardman. If you keep it up you might list all of the 0.00001% of the US population who are killed by dogs each year.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 11:33am PT

We were out climbing at a very popular area last week...

One where every group seemed to have a dog...

As we walked by each group, almost every dog cruised over to do some butt sniffing...(speaking of Butts, those young ladies in those groups sure had some nice ones!!!)...

Met some pretty cool animals that day...

Even connected with a few...

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 10, 2013 - 11:40am PT
As we walked by each group, almost every dog cruised over to do some butt sniffing...(speaking of Butts, those young ladies in those groups sure had some nice ones!!!)...

Like bees to a flower, bringing some of that sweet smelling nectar back to the queens.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 11:43am PT


LOL!!! that's a fuking good one!!!...

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 10, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
I have two dogs.

One, I would never think of bringing, he'd be a PITA and I'd have to keep an eye on him.

The other, I'd never think of leaving at home. He knows the deal.

So, there's no cut and dry answer. It's like humans, some you don't want to be associated with at the crag. Others make you look good just for being there with them.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 10, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Dogs are cool. I take it on a case by case basis. Mostly, its the humans that suck. Having said that, I've been attacked before and am not a fan of the more aggressive breeds. Now a crag Newfie would be cool though. He could carry my stuff!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 12:42pm PT

"Mostly, its the humans that suck."...


I'm thinking that's a GUD thing...

;-)


the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
This is a fantasy planted in their head by their master, the dog.

Some weird things going on no doubt, I wonder what the back-story is?

Most dog owners seem to act as though everyone loves their dog

I know everyone doesn't love my dog, but I'm not going to confine my dog to a cage in my yard because some people are afraid of or dislike dogs.

Most dog owners I see hold their dogs back on a leash in public when the dog tries to approach me, then I ask can I pet your dog, and hold out a fist for them to sniff. Dogs know I'm a dog person, even dogs that I've been told don't like any men. Dogs can sense/smell fear and loathing. Probably why they don't like some people.

the fact that Fatal pitt bull attacks are over 60% of all fatal attacks and pitts are only 5% of the dog population seems to be a no brainer indicator that the breed is dangerous. the fact that pitt bull owners are in denial about this is also a no brainer....

So you must believe that since the majority of murders in the US are committed by African Americans and they are a minority of the population that they are dangerous? There's no other factors at play?

Pit bulls ARE more dangerous because they are much more powerful than most breeds, but they actually test above average for temperament and are no more likely to bite than other breeds. They can kill when they do bite so they require responsible owners, but unfortunately many of the people attracted to a "dangerous" looking dog are the exact type of people who aren't responsible enough to own them.

I was bit by two dogs when I was young. A german shepherd from a neighbor's house was loose (owners fault) and in front of my friend's house. I went to pet it too quickly scared it and it bit my hand (my fault for approaching, but a dog like that should never have been out loose). And once on my paper route a dog came running out and bit my ass while I was riding my bike past it's house (owner severely at fault for allowing a dog like that to be loose). But I've had thousands of interactions with other dogs, most friendly and a handful I could tell the dog didn't want to be approached so I left it alone.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 01:44pm PT


The Pit Bull BS is hyped...

If a dog even slightly resembles a "Pit" they call it a "Pit", and then BLAME all Pitbulls...

It's bigger news...




EDITED:

MANY of the recorded attacks by "Pits" are in FACT, not by "Pits"..

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
Whatever the large popular breed has been at the time is the one demonized, it goes back decades.

Again I have no problem with someone saying a pit bull or other dog is dangerous because of it's size, but I can't let it go when someone claims they are more likely to bite.

I just remembered two more dog bites. My mother in laws little mixed breed, I was petting it on the head, moved to it's stomach and it bit, but that dog has the worst personality of any dog I've ever spent much time around. If I owned that little bastard it would sit in a kennel in my yard most of the time. And a friend's little dog years ago that bit me when I walked into his backyard, so I gave it a good kick as a warning to stay the hell away from me.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 10, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
My buddy came and stayed with me last weekend. He brought his two dogs. One, a little terrier named Betty, had lived here before. The other, a two year old pit named Frank, hadn't.

Keep in mind that my four year old lab Tioga still has his balls.

They were thick as thieves! Running, playing tug of war (Frank always wins), playing with the neighbors six year old daughter, they were all good. Frank may be dumb, bit he sure as hell isn't aggressive. Both my dogs 'had their way' with him. He took the humping like a champ!

Pits are an inappropriately blacklisted breed. 99% of the time, it's the owner and not the dog that creates problems through improper training.

That said, I'd never take Frank climbing. He just wants to run around and that would piss certain people off.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 10, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
Of the 20 or so pibbles I've had sent substantial time with over the last 5 or so years, there is only one that is the slightest bit aggressive... as in it barks at new arrivals, but spends the rest of the time running around and playing with the kids. My brother's kids LOVED my pibble.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 10, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
If you like dogs, adopt one.

So many need homes and they are not all that difficult.

You just need an accepting attitude and a whisker of discipline.

My dogs have made me a better, more rational, understanding person.

Go for it. You won't regret it.

Lincoln is nine now, and it feels like yesterday when I picked him up from the shelter.

Tioga is four, and sometimes acts like he's a puppy.

I don't care though, I love them like they were blood relatives.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 02:51pm PT


I "rescued" my dog, Dog from fuking stupid as hell "Skin Heads" out in Yucca Valley...

Dog was being fought and apparently did alright in the "pit" manageing to outdo (kill) three other dogs...

It took me a solid year of teaching/training/loving Dog before he would even allow ME to approach his food bowl...

Even when he'd be sleeping sometimes I would get near (In the beginning) and he'd look up and growl at me...

Now, he is a super cool and FRIENDLY to all HUMANs...

However, I still can't allow him to be around any other animals as he still seems to have it in him...


Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 10, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
The problem always arises when a dog owner decides what others should think about, feel about, and how they should act around their dogs. And if they don't feel the same way as the dog owner, the fault lies entirely with the dog hater - which is not the dog owner's fault.

In fact, once a dog's rights are hoisted alongside those of people, and people are expected to tolerate and respect the dog over their own feelings and dispositions, we have a clusterf*#k every time. A certain kind of person will honor their dogs above human beings, and there is no reasoning with these folks since the "problem" rests with every one else.

That's why the standard thinking is the very few truly bellicose or belligerent dog owners out there are often times people with personality disorders, and you'll get nowhere with them owing to inflexible thinking. They simply are right and the rest or "you" can eat sh#t and die.

Extreme, but we've all seen it in shades and degrees and it's ugly.

JL
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 10, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
The problem always arises when a dog owner decides what others should think about, feel about, and how they should act around their dogs.

Well, no. The problem SOMETIMES arises when a dog hater decides that a dog is a problem even though the dog has not done anything more significant than a person might have done.

Dave

P.S. Saying "always" is a sure way to get your argument condemned. You would not say "always" when talking about climbing issues. Why do it when talking about stuff you know less about?

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 04:22pm PT

I love dogs...

Will ALWAYS stand my ground that it's better for ALL concerned to not bring them to the crags...



And with that...

I bid farewell to this thread!!!...




Farewell, thread!!!...

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 10, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
+1 to Rectorsquid.

Mostly, the "problem" is a vastly overblown internet construct. Yes, I've seen some problem dogs/owners, but, really, it's not that often. Just as often it's just people doing stupid people stuff that gets my grits.

I sound belligerent in my f*#k y'all pronouncements, but, really, I usually leave my dog at home instead of exposing her to the self-entitled chuckleheads many climbers are.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
We rescued 3 of our last 4 dogs. And they all happened to be big "pit bull" types dogs. Really though as far as I can tell two are American Bulldogs (Scott type) and one is perhaps a Rottweiler/Pitbull mix. We end up with them because there are MANY of these dogs abandoned (popular / attract bad owners) and there aren't enough good homes for them.

Locker, be careful with your dog. I agree that any dog (and to a lesser extent any human) could snap and do something unpredictable, but a dog with a tough past is far more likely to have a problem.

I disagree that it's owners who cause all the problems. I think it's just as much nature vs. nurture. Dogs are born with an individual personality, just like people. Even siblings can be totally different. How they are trained has a lot to do with it, but some dogs are skittish and/or unpredictable and you can help but not change them. But someone could screw up a good dog by abusing it.

Our Rotty/pitbull is a sweetheart, BUT when we first rescued him he was skittish. He chases our cat and chickens. He barks when someone walks up the driveway. He's an outdoor dog. I'd only take him climbing to an obscure area where I wouldn't see anyone. In fact I've never taken him to the crag, he's been camping, but mostly stays at home.

The current American Bulldog is a 80 pound lap dog (in his mind). He doesn't chase the chickens, the cat comes up and sniffs him because he knows he can trust him. He has attacked the Rotty/pit because that's what dogs do, they establish dominance in the pack. Once the Rotty/pit submitted they got along fine.

When I take the AB out I'm very aware of people's reactions to him. Most people are afraid and I don't blame them and I keep him away from anyone who doesn't express an interest. But once a dog person approaches him they can tell he's the sweetest, most loving dog you could imagine.

I think like so many situations it's the bad apples that ruin it for everyone. Climbers who leave trash or steal. Off roaders who tear up a virgin hillside. Smokers who stand in doorways so you have to breath their smoke or who litter their butts.

The majority of dogs I've seen at the crags were well behaved and/or well controlled, but there's been a handful of times a dog has caused a problem, often when left alone while the climber does a multi-pitch, and those are the dicks that will get dogs banned or piss other people off.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 04:31pm PT


Well that blows!!!...

I'm fuking ALREADY back...

LOL!!!...



"Locker, be careful with your dog. I agree that any dog (and to a lesser extent any human) could snap and do something unpredictable, but a dog with a tough past is far more likely to have a problem."...

I have had him for 10 years...

He's fine...

Just not around other dogs or cats or squirrels, or birds flying by, a fly in the house, etc...(He's pretty old now and often lately he'll just watch... But the desire looks like it's still there)

But THANKS anyway of course!!!...



and again...


FAREWELL THREAD!!! (Not to worry Thread, I'll be right back!!!)...



EDITED...

See!!!...(fuking already "I'm BACK" again!!!)...

I've trained five "Pits" and am well aware of their behaviors...

;-)

Anastasia

climber
Home
May 10, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Hey...

I bring my dog, I keep her usually tied up unless there are other free roaming dogs. She usually is right next to me. I agree that my dog should not be in your stuff, on your rope, etc. She should be only messing with my stuff. If she goes there... I take her away, I do apologies and make sure she can't do it again.

I ask people to speak up if they don't want her around, we "the dog and I" can go elsewhere. Plus work with me... I will work with you. If you ask in a kind manner, I will respond in kind, and I will correct things quickly. Cuss me out, throw rocks at us, etc. I'm not so willing or nice. Not because my dog has more rights than you, but because as a human I don't like being attacked and letting anyone bully me out. Now that makes me just want to stick it to you.

Again, I'm human...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 10, 2013 - 08:43pm PT


"I bring my dog, I keep her usually tied up"...


Your Husband just emailed and said you meant him...

Not the dog...

;-)

Anastasia

climber
Home
May 11, 2013 - 12:45am PT
LOL, actually he keeps me tied on a short leash. What do you think the kid is for? Giggling...

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 17, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
Thought this article might be of interest.


Next week is National Dog Bite Prevention Week, and health care specialists, veterinarians and the insurance industry are trying to get out the word about reducing dog bite incidents this year.

In 2011, about 70 million dogs were living in U.S. households, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association, down from about 72 million in 2006. That means 36% of the population has canine companionship.

The downside to that statistic is the more than 4.7 million dog bites reported each year. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says 800,000 Americans seek medical attentional annually for dog bites. Of those injuries, nearly half require emergency room treatment. Dog bite rates are highest among children ages 5 to 9, and related fatalities average 16 a year.

Along with any physical and emotional damage, these incidents have financial costs. The Insurance Information Institute estimates that insurers paid out nearly $489 million in dog bite claims last year. Giant insurer State Farm says it dealt with 3,670 dog bite claims in 2012, paying out more than $108 million on them.

State Farm recently released a list of the top 10 states for dog bite claims in 2012:

State
Number of claims
Amount paid (est.)

1. California
451
$17.1 million

2. Illinois
337
$9.0 million

3. Texas
236
$4.3 million

4. Ohio
235
$5.0 million

5. Pennsylvania
165
$4.5 million

6. Michigan
151
$4.6 million

7. Indiana
148
$2.7 million

8. Florida
123
$7.1 million

9. Georgia
121
$3.3 million

10. New York
116
$6.4 million

Laws can vary regarding dog bites. Some states have what is known as the one free bite rule. That is, if a dog bites and injures someone -- and has never done so before -- the owner isn't liable for those injuries.

According to the Dog Bite Law website, the rationale behind the one-bite rule "was that domestic animals by definition were not injurious, and therefore liability could be predicated only on the defendant's knowledge that a particular animal had a propensity to behave in manner that was injurious to humans."

Most general liability provisions in a homeowners insurance policy will cover the owner for dog bites. However, some dogs can be excluded, according to San Diego law firm Laureti & Associates, if the dog "is a breed known to be, or (has) the propensity to be, dangerous."

State Farm says it doesn't refuse insurance based on the breed of dog a customer owns because "under the right circumstances, any dog might bite."
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 17, 2013 - 09:12pm PT
what an awesome way to make some extra cash for retirement! especially if it's one of those police dogs hangin out the winda.
McCfly

climber
May 17, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Are we really back at this again. Clearly we can all find something a bit more creative to bitch about.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 17, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
"Are we really back at this again."

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1884456/Is-it-OK-to-bring-dogs-to-the-outdoor-climbing

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1438634/Perro-non-grata

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1165244/Dogs-at-the-crags

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1382971/dog-bites-at-the-crag

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1365462&msg=1365486#msg1365486

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1323672/Do-crag-dogs-always-stick-around

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1212213&msg=1212244#msg1212244

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/933262/pups-and-outdoors

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/486002/attn-dog-owners

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/485208/JTree-Leave-your-dog-at-home

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=461499&msg=461499#msg461499

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/273380/to-the-f-ker-with-the-dog-at-hemingway-today

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/271136/josh-and-dogs

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/77674/dogs-and-crags

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/38368/Dogs-Crags

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/27951/Dogs-at-the-Crags


Can't wait for the next one...
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 17, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
Ah yes-----eternal dualities.

Credit: internet


Yen/Yang
Dogs/No Dogs
Bolts/No bolts
drunk/sober (it is Friday night!)
breasts/no breasts
Republicans/Democrats


This thread is mainstream with much of what is discussed here.



kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 17, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
except you probably won't have any crazee women complaining about an anti pooch thread


I'm gunna git it fer that one! lol
Hard Rock

Trad climber
Montana
May 21, 2013 - 09:46am PT
You can trust my judgement bring my dogs to the crags. You are already trusting my judgement on my bolts and anchors. Can't speak for others.
thirsty

climber
May 21, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Tradman is from New England? Of course. Hope he stays there.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 21, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Can I bring my lamb to the crag? She doesn't bite nothin' but grass.
I know Fritz and most other Idahoans and Wyomians would approve.

Credit: Reilly
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 21, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
I've seen well behaved dogs at the crag...and then I've seen the crazy, wild, stupid, annoying noisy dogs/and KIDS at the crag...the difference is the ADULTS who brought them...some know thier dogs and how they will act and others are just clueless...if you are clueless nothing can save us from you and your dog...if your intelligent and CARE about others enjoyment you already know if your dog will be a problem and will make the correct CHOICE!!!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
May 21, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
I'm gunna git it furItalic Text that one! lol


;D
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 21, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Thirsty. why exactly is it that you wish i never come west? Is it because I will be polite at your cliff, I will not bark at people, i will not piss on your pack, I will not leave a dog tied up at the base while I climb multi pitch all day. Perhaps it is because I am a free man, not in servitude to dogs. I have no problem with others being endentured servants to dogs but I do cherish my own freedom;)
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#304390
photo not found
Missing photo ID#304392
photo not found
Missing photo ID#304393
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 25, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
Not only do dogs enslave their humans but they steal all the hot chicks.
McCfly

climber
May 25, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
You might want to think about that Trad ;)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 25, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Just the facts baby ;)
McCfly

climber
May 25, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
Hmmm let me see find any dog related thread and be a dick. Musta had another bad day. You put off such great energy trad....

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
Yeah Tradman you should have seen it, it was a hoot.
I had just lowered after a nice lead and lo and behold there was Goldie completely enmeshed in cuteness. The college boys who were with them were momentarily annoyed as they couldn't get the cuddling Co-Eds attention. The best part is that this happens all the time. Goldie is a fox magnet. If only I could make friends like Goldie Sigh.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 25, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
That is just the way it works. They make you completly arrange your scedual arround theirs, feed them, clean up after them, house them, dispose of their fecal matter, pay their health care bills and transportation costs and they steal all the girls.

Why exactly does being honest make me a dick?

BTW if Repugs were as smart as dogs our country would not be such a mess....
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
Hey, I didn't say you were honest, er, I mean a dick. :)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 25, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
Philo. Just baiting the Mcfly kiddo. your master looks pretty cool;)
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
May 25, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
<- He only kept me around cause I had a can opener.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
Yeah Tradman I know Iz jes phunnin'. Yes my "master" is very cool even though she is such a bitch. lol
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 25, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
and a lesbian;)
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
Nttiawwt. :)
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 25, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Traddie is right, I'm taking my dogs to the pound and more importantly my kids to the orphanage. It's not like they give me anything in return.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 25, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
That depends are they roasting weight yet?
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
May 25, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
I don't know --- mine gives me grief & trouble.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Dogs and kids and crags oh my.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#316724
MisterE

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
Here's some calming dog music from Laurel Canyon:

http://www.petcds.com/STMDH/5%20Good%20Dog%20SS.mp3

And the entire library to round out your iTunes library:

http://www.petcds.com/STMDH.html
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
Crag dawg.
Crag dawg.
Credit: The Larry
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Aug 22, 2013 - 10:07am PT
The last few months i have been the defacto dog sitter for Angus@ work as the boss leaves the job site frequently and leaves us in charge of the dog. at the end of the day i even get to give Angus a ride home in my car from time to time. i let him sit up front and he feels like a king. he is super cool black lab but is definatly would Not take him climbing despite the fact that he is a chick magnet. he doesent really like work and i can't imagin he would like climbing much better than work.. still not changing my OP of Of Pitts regardless of how cute they look....http://news.yahoo.com/video/owner-fights-keep-pit-bull-072741074.html
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 23, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
Wow ... look an old dog hanging out at Gunsmoke. No dogs in the wilder...
Wow ... look an old dog hanging out at Gunsmoke. No dogs in the wilderness.
Credit: Yafer collection

oh no a dog!!!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 23, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
I don't always bring my dog to the crag, but when I do I make sure she bites tradman right in the raisins.
bit'er ol' guy

climber
the past
Nov 24, 2013 - 12:00am PT

Some dogs are great at the crags

other are not.

You dog owners can figure this out.

You can't?

Really?

You think Darkstar is friendly?

Your Rasta-pooch barked nonstop,

dropped a steamin' turd at he base of the V5 (it's really V3+ that's why it's 5 star man, send it!)

it smmelled #@*&ing Gnarly!!

Don't feed your dog your left over world-be-free-ire burger;

NASTY!!!

he then launched a "REd R0cKet" dry hump on my pack.

Really, REALLY NASTY!!!

One more thing-Darkster dosen't like to get HIGH






he told me so.



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