What knot do you use for fixing a line to two bolts?

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ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 21, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
I have just started my decent into the madness that is aid climbing, and have a real gumby question:

Assuming that you are using two bolts at an anchor station, what knot do you use to fix the line that your partner will ascend? A two loop figure eight, a two loop bowline, a two loop butterfly or something totally different?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:32pm PT

This should be interesting...



EDITED:

"A slip knot with a back up five feet behind it is good for some laughs later."...

LOL!!!...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 21, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
A slip knot with a back up five feet behind it is good for some laughs later.
James Wilcox

Boulder climber
The Coast
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
^^^^^^^
Assuming the person jugging survived the heart attack ;)
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:13pm PT

It really WOULD be funny as sh!t to do that to someone...

Have any out there done it???...

Warbler???...
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
A one loop fig, 8, or a clove hitch.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
When I did the Salathe way back when, my partner and I were both just 17, and he was more gripped than I was. He actually wanted to rap from Sous le Toit Ledge, up there below The Roof and The Headwall on our second to last day. I talked him out of it, and he went on to lead The Roof. I lead The Headwall, and stopped just below The Long Narrow ledge at that hanging belay. By the time Eric jugged up to me it was dark.

We had no hammocks, so the obvious thing to do was forge onward to the spacious ledge just above. Eric wanted no part of leading in the dark, so it was up to me. We had no headlamps, but we did have a small flashlight which I clenched in my teeth as I worked my way upward. I managed to reach the bivi, a huge relief, and fixed the rope for Eric who was hanging down there alone in the dark.

I can't recall if I sent the light down to him to clean or not, but after I took the bag, he asked me 4 or 5 times if the anchor was bomber, and if he was tied off. I assured him he was good, but when he weighted the rope, I heard this terrible scream/cry followed by uncontrolled whimpering rising up from below. I hadn't noticed that the rope had hooked over one of those big diorite knobs on the traverse at the end of the pitch, and it popped off when he moved onto it, dropping him about five feet.

Not funny, I guess. For him anyway.
WBraun

climber
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Hahaha LOL

I thought it was funny knowing Mellow Brutus was always scared.

Dale put in 2 shitty pins above a 2 bolt belay once.

He anchored me to the 2 shitty pins and back down to the bolts.

I started to clean the pitch and the pins pulled and I dropped a few feet onto the bolts.

No big deal knowing Dales crazy ideas sometimes.

I yelled up "what's up man" and he yells down "Bomber man"

LOL
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
I think Porter told Eric that he was so big and heavy he could snap a rope if he fell too hard on it. Of course Charlie was just fuking with him - but it scarred Eric for his whole climbing career. I could never assure him enough that it just wasn't going to happen.

That was probably exactly what he was thinking about up there on the Headwall.

Any idea what Eric's up to? I haven't seen or heard from him in decades...
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Tie an Eight knot to one and tie a butterfly to the other. Then, work the butterfly to make the loop bigger and equalize the pull from the climber onto the two knots.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
a simple ol self equalizing belay anchor, tied with one rope.
WBraun

climber
Apr 21, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
Any idea what Eric's up to?


No .... I haven't seen him since he left.

He's probably at his home somewhere still thinking the rope is going to break.

LOL

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
Last time I saw him was in Berkeley in the early 80's - he had a two bedroom apt with one bedroom full of 6 ft pot plants and giant lights. I think he had bypassed the electric meter for power...

Now that's scary
WBraun

climber
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
Tie an Eight knot to one and tie a butterfly to the other.


You can do it with one knot.

Adjustable equalized bowline.

You can even get three adjustable equalized loops out of one knot also.

Bridwell taught me the knot back in 1971.

HO MAN ......
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Bunny ears, equalized best ya can. Clip bolts with biners.
D'Wolf

climber
Apr 21, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Clove hitch to the first bolt backed up by an eight-on-a-bight (or butterfly) on the second bolt.

Once tied, eliminate most (but not all) of the slack between the two such that the weight of your partner is on the first bolt.

You can tie other knots on the first bolt if you'd like but once your partner has jugged (bounced) his way to the anchor have fun taking that first knot apart. A double-butterfly would be my choice if I really felt the bolts were suspect and I wanted the weight shared between the two (proceed as a standard butterfly but wrap one more time; then, pull the TWO center strands through to form a butterfly with two ears. Adjust.)

Cheers,
Thom
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Great replies. I especially like the slip knot idea. Nice!

My go to in this situation (for a trad anchor, not a fixed line to be jugged) was always bunny-ears eight http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8loopdouble/

However, the thought of untying this after having a partner bounce on this for 100' sounds less than fun.

What is the double loop bowline that you use? Is it this:
http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/bowline-on-a-bight

I guess the simple solution (assuming bomber bolts) is the clove hitch on one, backed up with an eight on another bolt.

Still, I keep thinking about the slip knot...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 21, 2013 - 06:39pm PT

Quite an ENTERTAINING thread...

LOL!!!...


EDITED:

Like the above poster I too keep going over that slip knot idea in my mind...

and each time it cracks me up good!!!...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 21, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
My sincere apologies to all future victims of the sadistic slip knot prank.
briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
Apr 21, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
Tie an Eight knot to one and tie a butterfly to the other. Then, work the butterfly to make the loop bigger and equalize the pull from the climber onto the two knots.

I use this based on mark's idea, but I use a clove hitch instead of a eight, to make equalization even easier.

"Hudon" style big wall anchor. Simple, bomber, clean
"Hudon" style big wall anchor. Simple, bomber, clean
Credit: briham89
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Cool! The clove or figure eight combined with the butterfly make perfect sense. The clove / butterfly combo seems to be the best of both worlds; easy to equalize and easy to untie. Thanks for the input!!!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 21, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
I yelled up "what's up man" and he yells down "Bomber man"


buahahaha
Plaidman

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
Apr 21, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
Bunny ears, equalized best ya can. Clip bolts with biners.

It is a caver's knot. But it is sweet. Easy to tie and un-tie. Learned it from one of those Petzl catalogs.




Plaid
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