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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Apr 22, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
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climate change has nothing to do with snow stability. they operate on completely different time scales. Climate change works on the span of centuries and snowpack is a day to day timescale. There is no doubt that people are skiing gnarlier stuff but this accident was the result of poor terrain choice, travel techniques, and the fact that they ignored the avy bulletin. It would be nice to blame something else but this was clearly human error as tragic as it is.
my deepest condolences go out the the families and friends of the victims
rip
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Apr 22, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
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That's true Spanky. But huge temperature variations have a lot to do with snowpack stability, and those seem more dramatic now (at least on the Front Range) than two decades ago. Whether those variations are due to climate change, is anyone's guess. .
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 22, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
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Condolences to all involved.
These were very experienced folks by anyone's standards. And there was a UDOT avalanche forecaster killed in a slide here in the Wasatch a little more than a week ago. No one should think that experience gets you a free pass.
It will be interesting to see the comparisons between this and the Stevens Pass slide mentioned above. In both cases a large group of folks that should have known better.
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Apr 22, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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Big swings in temp do destabilize the snowpack but the snowpack is a unique entity which occurs as a result of the weather patterns each season. Colorado has always had huge temp swings this time of year (I have lived here for over 20 years) The real issue is that bc skiers/riders need to know the snowpack every season and this requires checking the snowpack consistently and actually listening to the warnings in the bulletin.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Apr 22, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
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Yes those swings in temps are common here, but didn't we have the all time high temp. record for a recent date, and almost an all time low temp. for a recent date during the same month?
Again, I'm thinking of the difference between the Colorado snowpack, and another snowpack that I used to play in all winter (NW Wyoming) , which was a consistently cold snowpack. I moved to CO more than 25 years ago as a backcountry skiing fanatic. I've never really felt the love for it here; the turns aren't as sweet, and the risk assessment is more difficult.
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Decko
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 22, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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I learned a phrase years ago in a safety training class that has forever stayed with me.
Complacency kills........
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 22, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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Were they high lining?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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hey there say, hossjulia and all,
i can't stay on line tonight, so this is fast:
the one that posted the link to the story about the
avalanche that had the 16 members, in group...
well--i sure wish anyone that going skying, or snowboarding,
etc, would READ all that first, and then make decisions
as to where, when, and such, to ski, etc...
whewwww, it speaks very clear about very many things... :(
thank you for sharing... i i KNEW folks that did more
snowstuff, i would and will, share it... :(
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 22, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
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Colorado is a whole nother ball of wax compared to Coastal and Intermountain snowpacks...
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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Big reason I moved from Colorado was the avy danger. Anyone who thinks spring conditions are safer ought to think twice. Got turned around by obvious warning signs in April too many times after driving a long way and making plans for weeks.
And yes, the weather patterns have changed, and this HAS affected the snow pack all over the world.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Apr 22, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
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It's true. We've weird new patterns at our High Peaks.
I'll learn them, if I don't die. If I do die, then I'll be dead.
I AM sorry about yer friends. I'm just awash in keeping up, though. Gotta keep up. Or get trod under.
Peace.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 23, 2013 - 12:01am PT
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The mountain environment is beautiful, envigorating, life giving and life taking.....answer the siren song and have no regrets.
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steve shea
climber
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Apr 23, 2013 - 09:48am PT
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BITD, the early 70's, we used to call San Juan co, Co the avalanche capital of North America. What would be rare occurences in other ranges were the norm. in SW CO. We saw some unbelievable slides in areas that just should not go. We climbed near Telluride and skied, Silverton area, a lot. And always with an extra measure of caution. The CO snowpack was/is different. Check out Chris Landry's CSA site. I think they are based out of Silverton and doing some serious snow dynamics research.
Also, myth or fact, there was a popular story going around. The Glen Canyon Dam was relatively new and the result of Lake Mead created a suface high pressure that split weak lows. This radically changed the snowpack in SW CO because more moisture all of a sudden started to fall in that area. SW CO ski ares were all of a sudden getting hammered early and often. We'd go down to Wolf Creek to ski pow sometimes in Nov. Deep pow! Silverton was just snowed out. Myth or fact or some other reason the weather and snowpack did change after Glen Canyon. We saw it first hand.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Apr 23, 2013 - 10:31am PT
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The Glen Canyon Dam was relatively new and the result of Lake Mead created a suface high pressure that split weak lows. This radically changed the snowpack in SW CO because more moisture all of a sudden started to fall in that area. SW CO ski ares were all of a sudden getting hammered early and often. We'd go down to Wolf Creek to ski pow sometimes in Nov. Deep pow! Silverton was just snowed out. Myth or fact or some other reason the weather and snowpack did change after Glen Canyon. We saw it first hand.
That is a bit of a stretch
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steve shea
climber
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Apr 23, 2013 - 10:52am PT
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Coincidence then?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 23, 2013 - 10:53am PT
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A stretch for sure as those conditions do not exist every year.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 23, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
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I'm still not clear how the Glen Canyon Dam affects the water in Lake Mead, unless the water sent down-stream from Lake Powell is colder than it otherwise would be.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 23, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
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I am generally more comfortable ski touring with skiers that have lots of mountaineering experience than skiers whose primary background in the mountains comes from skiing.
The risk analysis in mountain terrain takes time to develop as a skill. Mountaineers (climbers) usually spend more time in the Alpine zone.
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