Explosions at finish line of Boston Marathon!

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 2041 - 2060 of total 2161 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:03am PT

Coz climbs 5.14. I know this because he told me. Several times.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:07am PT
The wars in the ME by the USA where self defense, in reaction to 9/11

I thought that was just their bullshit excuse.
Degaine

climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:30am PT
ron anderson wrote:
Not talking about the Sudan conflicts. Im not talking about the Buddhists and muslim conflict either. Im talking about two Chechens who "defended islam" or 19 plane-jackers, or a Ft Hood person that killed for "allah".


So what you're writing in the above is that they're not all the same, right?

In other words we can't just make the sweeping "all attacks and conflicts are radical Islam" generalization, right? Each has its own geopolitical specifics, so it would be stupid (and unsafe) to approach everything with the same strategy and through the same lens, wouldn't it?
Degaine

climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 08:33am PT
ron anderson wrote:
Now,, as for your Yahoo.com answer to true muslim, all i will suggest is READING the Qua-ran.. Then get back to me.


So you've read the Koran in it's original Arabic, right? And you have a strong grasp of 7th century Arabic, I assume (you know, as to not misinterpret expressions and all).

I probably shouldn't assume, it makes an ass out of you and me.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2013 - 08:38am PT
Degaine,, I suppose you going to tell me how that book is one of peace now?

Yet this book is used as the catchall isnt it? I mean they will riot and kill of any "jokes" made about it right?


Obama loves to take a quote from that book in an effort to exemplify the peaceful nature of that book, yet the quote he uses is meant for JEWS, and NOT people of islam.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:00am PT
...picking up book or newspaper narrowly averted!!!!
Degaine

climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:03am PT
Ron,

You're asking people to read the Koran, but have you actually read the book or haven't you?

It's like Christians quoting the Old Testament as the literal truth, but have only actually read the thing in modern English instead of the original Hebrew (which is really an Aramaic dialect) and putting the expressions in the original Hebrew into their context. A simple example would be the number 40 coming up a lot, which was a number used to basically indicate "a long time". (40-day flood, 40 years in the desert, ...).

I'm not trying to refute that certain Muslim communities don't overreact to political cartoons depicting the prophet Mohamed in an unflattering way.

However, you seem to easily dismiss the violent parts of the Old Testament - stoning, animal sacrifice, et al, - as no longer applicable, as do many of the proclaimed religious in here do, and no one (other than one or two anti-semites on supertopo) attributes the violent Israeli policy in the occupied Palestine to violence in the Torah.

Yet for some illogical reason you attribute episodes of violence committed by a few Muslims to a small portion of the translated texts of a book written centuries ago (a book that you have not even read), and then generalize about not only the 1.5 billion Muslims across the planet (who most live in India, China, and Indonesia) as well as the extremist groups committing their violence in the name of Islam.

This radical ignorance on your part is just fine with guys like GW Bush and Cheney, because it allows them to (wrongly) invade countries in the Middle East like Iraq with your full and unquestioning support.
Degaine

climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:08am PT
ricky wrote:
Coz climbs 5.14. I know this because he told me. Several times.


Not sure why you wrote this. Coz clearly is an experienced climber, guide, and rigger.

He has my respect and my ear when it comes to climbing( and climbing equipment).

But he doesn't know jack sh#t about the Middle East, and I would say he almost as dangerously ignorant as ron anderson.
WBraun

climber
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Read this sh!t ...?

http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/26/boston-bombers-uncle-married-daughter-of-top-cia-official/
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2013 - 09:32am PT
well that is funny Degaine,, and thank you for clearly identifying your partisanship. But it isnt i who bombs innocent people in the name of some mythical being. So you might wanna rephrase the dangerously ignorant quote to a group more deserving. you see,, you hav done exactly what doc f does constantly. You brushed the broad,, by your "MUSLIM" wording.. Im talking about radical islam, which makes places like Iran a shythole today. Im talking about those stuck in a century long ago, and third world taboot. Im talking about my buddy in Iran wishing they were like the US and how he hates the islamic RULE they live under now. Even though they are muslim for the majority, they dont want to linger in a time that should have been long since forgotten.











edit: Werner,, i guess that is the sub-world order?
coz

Gym climber
Belmont
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:38am PT
Funny,

I've traveled all over the ME.

I'm not a big fan of the Muslim culture or religion in general, I witness a young girl beat up by men in Jordan, I tried to help and was threaten for my life.

In Turkey, I almost got blown up, by a suicide bomber targeting Americans.

Never saw a women on the streets, who wasn't cowering.

I'm sure Ricky and you are big experts however, oh did you see the woman sentence to a hundred lashes in the Maldives for being raped.

If you're going to defend the Muslim culture, maybe you should do more than read about it or watch CNN.

I really would love to hear your defense of the treatment of women in the ME.

Do you believe America deserved to be attacked and innocents murdered Degiane?




Tready

Trad climber
Quito
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:56am PT
The Mideast has a pretty craptacular track record with women's rights; I don't think you'd find anyone who would argue that. There is progress being made on that front though, and it should be applauded, just like women/minorities continuing to get rights in the US.

I lived in Syria for just under two years, and my experiences appear to be the opposite of yours. Weird. Particularly the bit about women on the street always cowering. Didn't see it in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, or Egypt, though when I did travel I tended to be in the more urban areas (with the exception of Jordan). That could be a reason - those backwards places tend to be bastions for narrow mindedness and stupidity.

No one is saying those people in Boston deserved to be murdered, but you can't look at the US's foreign policy over the past decade and be shocked when some nutjob blows himself up in the name of Allah. Bush's invasions and Obama's drone attacks have been a better recruiting tool for those extremist groups than anything.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2013 - 11:17am PT
On that i agree with you some,, in that past policies and actions have created much resentment. Yet, we dont act like the taliban here for the vast majority. When was the last attack against muslims here in the USA? And in the precision/police actions we engage in these days, the results are predictably poor. This due to the ugliness of actual war to some how be avoided at any and all costs, even if it means having never ending skirmishes in countless countries with the death tally in the end the same of not more.. That and the never ending ties of the all mighty dollar to the "group".

Things were far better off for the USA in the days of semi isolationism. At least we didnt borrow trillions to give away..
coz

Gym climber
Belmont
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
As I have said an eye for an eye, and fighting terror with more terror doesn't and will not work.

I did see a few women not cowering in the ME, but to say it's getting better is BS, I was in Mumbai and honor killings were all the rage. Muslim culture is not my thing, I like dogs, woman, and pork, and anyone who lays hands on a women is a punk.

That said, I did work with a Muslim stunt team in India and recently on a movie called Lone Survivor and had a great time. Many Muslims are very good and descent people, so I'm not condemning all, just some and yes they seemed to be in the more remote areas.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
The trend seems to be going backwards in terms of women's rights in the Middle East and North Africa, or Islamic culture. Sharia is becoming 'cool' again there.

Algeria and Tunisia appear to be fighting to be the exceptions. But, they're fighting it. Egypt, after Mubarak's fall, has gotten worse. People were supposed to be more "free" once the "brutal dicatator" was overthrown. Go ask women and Coptic Christians how that is going.

Afghanistan in the 70's was like Turkey of today. Chicks in skirts, and a general secular culture.

Islam is not the problem, per se. It just my need a reformation from within. Anybody, trust me I know this, can twist words and bend interpretations. As the Catholic Church did, Islam needs a reformation.

But, as I said, it seems to be getting worse, not more moderate. Pay attention to North Africa, Southern Thailand, and Southeastern India. Intolerance is spreading.

Radical Islam is on the march again. Let's hope it doesn't take another Crusade to stop it. Maybe it can be stopped from within.
Tready

Trad climber
Quito
Apr 27, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Ron, what do you mean by “we don’t act like the Taliban here for the vast majority?” I don’t understand what you’re getting at with the other stuff about attacks against Muslims in the US either, or the rest of that paragraph, to be quite honest.

I will say, though that the whole “Tsarnaev doesn’t deserve any rights or a trial. We should just execute him” sounded very Taliban-esque to me.

Coz,

“HARD-WON PROGRESS AND A LONG ROAD AHEAD: WOMEN’S RIGHTS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA” – Sanja Kelly

http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/270.pdf

The study, of which I skimmed the first 12ish pages, indicates that the Mideast/North Africa region is the worst in the world in terms of women’s rights, but to say there is no progress being made is wrong.

“Although the study indicates that a substantial deficit in women’s rights persists in every country in the MENA region, the findings also include notable progress, particularly in terms of economic opportunities, educational attainment, and political participation” (1).

“The most significant achievement occurred in Kuwait, where women received the same political rights as men in 2005, enabling them to vote and run for office, and paving the way for the election of the country’s first female members of parliament in 2009. In Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates (UAE), the first women judges were appointed in 2006 and 2008, respectively”(2).

“In the UAE, eight women were appointed and one secured election to the 40-member Federal National Council (FNC), an advisory body to the hereditary rulers of the seven emirates. Previously, no women had served on the FNC, which until 2006 was fully appointed by the seven rulers. In other countries, such as Oman and Bahrain, the government has appointed an increasing number of women to unelected positions, including cabinet and diplomatic posts” (11).

Also, Saudi Arabia gave women voting rights in 2011.

Edit: Yeah, the whole Arab Spring really changed the landscape, and It'll be real interesting to see what that report says, should they do another edition in 2015.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 27, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
Ron,

You're asking people to read the Koran, but have you actually read the book or haven't you?

This is the mistake. I do not need to understand Islamic faith or read a f*#king book. THEY need to bring their culture into the 21st century!

That does not mean they to have welcome degeneracy or immorality, but they need a reformation.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 28, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
Bluering, the "read the Quaran" remark was made to Ron, in direct response to his posting the following:
Now,, as for your Yahoo.com answer to true muslim, all i will suggest is READING the Qua-ran.. Then get back to me.


He told ME to read the book, and someone asked him if HE had.


But as for "them needing" to do anything - who says? It is major horse crap to suggest that all the upset over middle eastern policy is due to their human rights issues, because of the way they treat women. This country doesn't give a rat's ass about how women in other countries are treated. The problem is - we want their resources, and we want them at bargain rates. And they don't want to make a deal.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 28, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
Good post Happiegrrrl,

Lost in the emotion posted here of the value of life to individuals, is the only thing that matters to holders of power is natural resources and who controls them.

The criminal Kissinger once imagined remedy for the majority of people on the planet as "thinning out the useless eaters"

Fun, huh ?

Only as long as you don't fall from grace and ask for help.


The goal has always been about becoming rich.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Apr 28, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
The problem is - we want their resources, and we want them at bargain rates. And they don't want to make a deal.

I gotta call BS here. We did NOt get their resources, we sat back and let the Chinese get all the f*#king contracts!

And why did we help overthrow Mubarak in Egypt, or Ghaddafi in Libya?

Oil? Resources? Crock of f*#king shit! Islam is a poison. And it's spreading.
Messages 2041 - 2060 of total 2161 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews