Rattlesnake Canyon closed?


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Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:53am PT
Mr. Keesee, what would you like to see the NPS do differently?

First off, quit complaining about your lack of funds..... NPS rangers get new SUV's about every year.... cut that stuff out, for starters, we can all see that every year.

Stop being "campground comandos" ... Rangers run around HVG (and others like C4) with guns looking to hassle folks. When did our parks become dangerous places?

More camping....

maybe stop trying to "manage our visit"... with stuff like LOOP ROADS, or "No Parking"...Fake adobe "Ruins".. mostly just stupid stuff that makes zero sense.

I could go on and on with my bitching but it will not do any good, why you ask 5.10B?????

Are you NPS person?????

And I don't have problems with the workers, most are just trying to do a good job and follow their dreams of working in the outdoors. Its the manigers and policy setters who I think are failing...or getting a c-.

G Zeus

Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:05am PT
Thanks for not flaming me to a crisp.

I agree closing rattlesnake canyon is an inappropriate response by the NPS. Screwing everyone for the actions of a few can't be right.

I agree the tagging looks like hell and I prefer it wasn't there, but I also know that I am making a value judgement that needs to withstand rational scrutiny.

I admit I stirred the pot a bit on purpose. I can't stand fuzzy thinking. Please don't take it personally, Mr. Trotter.

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:13am PT
How come they don't add more camping????

RV Lobby is stronger than outdoor gear (i.e. "Coleman") lobby?

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:14am PT
As far as the cleanup goes give me a chopper for a day and I'll bring in a
nice sandblaster and it'll git done! And if we happen to find one of those
punks we'll give him a good scrubbing too.

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:39am PT
I was at Barker Dam last weekend for the first time, and I didn't notice any fences. Just an empty reservoir. There was some graffiti, but the stains on the rocks from the historical water lines was more obvious than any writing. Somewhere north on Hwy 247 there is serious painting that covers the roadside rocks. That did get my attention, and I remember thinking that I was glad it was not like that in Jtree. Funny timing.

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Elcap.... do you really think it's the RV lobby???

When they made JT a Nat Park, one of the first things they did was remove some sites in HVCG (or that might have been just before NP status).

As "managers", who have a responsibily to manage parks in our interest, closing camping sites just dose't make sense. This has been a problem for a long time.

So Elcap, I reckon it's the Motel- Hotel operators in 29, JT, Yucca Valley and Paln Springs who pull the strings.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
Good points Guy.

I don't see much evidence of the RV lobby in national parks. I can't even think of a national park that has hookups.

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
Are you NPS person?????

no, not an NPS person

And I don't have problems with the workers, most are just trying to do a good job and follow their dreams of working in the outdoors.

yet you, and others rag on the rangers all the time. granted, some LEOs are wanna be cops, and push their authority too far, but to keep harping on it gets a little old.

now, I do agree with you about a poor management policy, but the boots on the ground are only doing what they are told to do.


Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
to keep harping on it gets a little old.

I'll stop harping on it when they stop f*#king doing it. It get's old harping on it? Well if gets REAL DAMN OLD experiencing it.


Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
harping on it doesn't solve the problem
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Not necessarily. Diamonds are hardly rare. They are expensive as hell due to clever marketing.

I did not use diamonds in my comparison. I used the value comparison between gold and coal.

Wait. What? How can we know much and relatively very little at the same time? They tell us someone marked the rocks. They do not tell us whether their contributions were even valued by their contemporaries. For all we know it was the work of native hooligan teenagers who were roundly criticized at the time. It's called prehistory for a reason.

The first sentence is semantical gamesmanship that I don't want to waste time delving into further.
Yes they do tell us someone marked the rocks. Just like your birth certificate and drivers license tells us someone marked a piece of paper.
Your other comments in that paragraph are notably ignorant and uninformed and gives us an abundant clue as to why you have hitherto failed to make the critical distinction between glyphs and modern graffiti.

Whoa, there! Ascribing motives. Danger! Danger! Glyphs don't have annotations reading, "I did this because...." They could also mean, "I'm bored." We weren't there and we can't ask.

Precisely because present day researchers have thought to ascribe motives to the presence of glyphs that we have discovered important things about the culture , history, and even the historical climate of a certain region.
For instance, we know that there was a severe drought over 1000 years ago in the southwest.
We know this because of data gathered that suggests this very thing :part of the data is evidence of a contraction in the population of peoples living here and other changes. Glyphs from that time have helped to seal the deal. They are a journal of the life and death struggle I alluded to earlier.

Pluck someone from the distant future who can't read, plop them down at barker dam without telling them anything, and they just might assume they are at a sacred site due to all the graffiti. It's been known to happen.

I think we have a budding SciFi writer here.

Don't take this personal Zeus, but I don't think I've ever been confronted by someone who considers present day graffiti on the same level as prehistoric petroglyphs.
Maybe I'm overreacting.

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 17, 2013 - 03:42pm PT

"Locker... that is a cool place, but Jon Samulson ... (SP?) wrote most of his stuff in the 20's...."...


I was OFF by a bit...


Pretty cool out there for sure...

So is the well, way on the other side...

GLAD it's (SORT OF) not a popular spot to hit...

Wouldn't be long before someone fuked it up...


Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
lOCKER... Best not to speak of the many unique spots around JT.

The NPS might just remove them for safe keeping.... to some east coast museum.

Yea I know you got it off by ten years... but he did date his writings.

Hated the Government,

he was a teapartyer, I recon.

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:28pm PT

"but he did date his writings."...



I never noticed that Dean Martin looked a little like Victor Mature...

If you watch the clip closely, occasionally you'll see it...

G Zeus

Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
Apr 19, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Wow. Charts. I bow to your superior intellect. Buh bye.

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 19, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
You know the National Park Service, by blowing this story up in the national news, has made these the most famous taggers ever.

Their "Tags" are now the most popular tags in the world.

Now, some taggers are going to "out do them"

whats next.... tag Mt. Rushmore?

Our government

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Apr 19, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
Don't worry guyman, this provides the perfect justification for increasing the enforcement (oops, I mean "protection") budget.

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
May 1, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Just heard that the canyon will be closed for another thirty days

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 1, 2013 - 10:36am PT

Here's our chance Coz!!!...

We NEED to hurry!!!...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#301035

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
May 2, 2013 - 08:18am PT
10b4me is correct.
The closure has been extended through May.

See the press release below for details.

National Park Service
U.S. Department of the Interior Joshua Tree National Park

74485 National Park Drive
Twentynine Palms, CA 92277

contact Dave Carney
phone 760 367-5570

Joshua Tree National Park News Release

Joshua Tree National Park Announces Extension to Closure of the vandalized Rattlesnake Canyon

Since January, individuals have defaced the day use and canyon area of Rattlesnake Canyon with graffiti. This damage resulted in a three week closure of the popular hiking and day use area. Because a more extensive cleanup program is required to remediate vandalism in Rattlesnake Canyon, Joshua Tree National Park is extending the closure for an additional 30 days.

This closure includes physical access, public entry and use to protect the canyon from continued damage. The current closure was scheduled to end today but was extended through May due to the sensitive nature of several areas. These locations require a more detailed analysis and cleanup to limit additional damage.

The cleanup project began on April 8 and has largely been completed. Volunteers from across the state worked with park staff to successfully clean spray paint from numerous locations in the canyon.

The closure includes the entire day use area of Rattlesnake Canyon from the day use closure gate to the top of the canyon. Following the 30 day extension, park staff will decide if additional extensions are needed before reopening the area.

Joshua Tree National Park reminds visitors that we appreciate your assistance in watching for and reporting acts of vandalism or suspicious activity to the nearest park personnel.

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