What Is Trad ?????????

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deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 19, 2013 - 02:30am PT
Hi Ed-- good to hear "Fireside Chat" might have gotten a second ascent. Walt and I hiked up with the tiniest of tiny racks, rope, t-shirts, found a line and climbed it. I recall the day as very mellow, blue sky, peaceful and quiet, everything seemed timeless back in the day when time wasn't a factor in day-to-day life. Cruiser route--5.9 if I recall?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 02:33am PT
It is beautiful up there... a real antidote to the hectic scene in the Valley... and a lot of great rock to climb. So much like that it's a wonder that people complain about crowding. These should show up in the next guide edition too, though I'm not sure it will increase the traffic very much.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:08am PT
Too funny Ed (a few up)!
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:23am PT
Mark,

Nice job showing the impact of chalk on two different kinds of rock. You think the 2' chalk highways in Indian Creek splitters 'leaves no trace'? Oh, and there are shiney bolts and hangers at the top of each route, whether one can walk off or not.
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:30am PT
out-of-text-ed cracks me up..
one can climb with a minimal touch...
...as far as faces are concerned, they too harbor life

so ed, myster physisist, how doth one climb with minimal touch?
like levitation on the order of zen mastery? like floating upon the
ether vibes of harding's farts?

come on ed, you surely better understand the universal physical laws better than we.

now, regarding the faces comment:
my face is an exo-ecosystem?
life spawns upon my cheeks and chin?
hmm. i don't wash very often, so im sure the bacteria fraternitys
are keg-standing in my ugly scruff;
and then there's the emoticons etched upon my expressions.
these facial aspects are spirtual entities,
lawfully dead in the physical realm,
though vibrantly alive within god's dreams.

thanks ed.
your hybrid analysis of uncommon understanding is always commonly confusing.
which is very welcome, in my mind.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:34am PT
Trad is a surfer now, she doesn't care what you guys think of her.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:53am PT
Actually, Weeg in Master of Rock our own Patrick Oliver & Jogill do 'touch on' that levitation* thing




* not to be confused with Leavitation...
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:08am PT
Warbler,

good post, yes I suspect you and I can perform such analysis from hours of experience while defying the rules of trad.

Ed,

...based on a review of the literature...

like many of your posts this one entails endless babbling from you. You are all around the topic but seldom on top of it. You search the web like a madman? and produce little that shows you understand the central gravity of the issues.

For 19 years I was married to and often worked in the field with Hollis Marriott. She was the rare plant botanist for the WY Nature Conservancy. I have had three plant searching contracts myself and I am still ask to review her reports and articles.

Now brother here is what you fail to see or mention, the effect of gradients. Yes, you and all that literature fail to have set up the question of how long would be the recovery time for plants to again grow in the cracks. Comparatively trails recover in a short time but once the soil and anchoring base is gone from a crack, the plant life will be gone for centuries.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:18am PT
Ed,
Dingus McGee? what would the land managers think of such a thing? speaking hypothetically...


this is WY not CA. For WY (raw) BLM land which is far from designated wilderness or land having much agency concern, but may feel more like it than being in a real CA wilderness, the rules and concerns are quite different than your state. One can find temporary structures here and there on lands of WY, several old sheep herders wagons are near where we park. Are they the Faraday cages of some old experiments?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:21am PT
Spoken like Chip Salaum! Except no mention of cosmic rights....
;)
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:25am PT
Jaybro,

a lot of what are issues in CA are not issues in WY. Do we have a universal cosmic criteria for how one is to behave? Oh yes, it is leave no trace.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:30am PT
Jaybro,

Chip Salaun? , I get it.


Does a WY climbing camp differ from a WY hunting camp?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:35am PT
Yes, gradients. A few bolts here and there versus a multitude of bolts (and often chains) here, there, and everywhere.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Testing Configuration of 1/2" Ramhorn cold shuts.
Testing Configuration of 1/2" Ramhorn cold shuts.
Credit: Dingus McGee

Chains?? none needed. Elegance?
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 09:47am PT
Mark,

you could go to designated wilderness? Would there be less bolts? It seems you want the status of all lands to have the rules you want? To some extent what goes on here in the US is what the gravity of the masses want, but a squeaky wheel can often get grease first.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 19, 2013 - 10:17am PT
The offroad community has come to some common ground about land use with cutting new trails here there and everywhere with ATCs, ATVs, and offload bikes being considered bad behavior and the community is on the path to regulating themselves. They know that their continued access to the environments they enjoy depends on it.

The whitewater boating community did the same thing. There are very clear community wide agreed upon rules of ethics concerning resource use - pack out your trash and your sh#t, don't cut firewood, leave the beach as pristine as possible, and don't change rapids...ever.

The horse packing community has agreement about preventing the importation of non-native seeds.

Some Eastern European climbing areas areas have community rules concerning preserving the resources and, IMHO, they have done well by it.

We, as a community, could do this, too. My vision would be to limit bolting to ground up and hand drilled. That automatically prevents indiscriminate bolting (IMHO).

There is a place for restraint. And, restraint helps establish us in a better position concerning resource use.

Enough on that and I won't post anything about that topic again. This has been a wonderful thread about the aesthetics and rewards of trad style climbing. It, unfortunately, has suffered drift into the realm of environmental ethics. I have been guilty, too; mea culpa.

We could all do well by bringing the thread back to its' original track and leave the other discussion for another thread.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Mark,

so each and every one of us would buy a large rack of friends and nuts plugging our resources into gear companies and their latest rage?

You seem to miss the point why there is Sport Climbing. Here it is, "We want overhanging climbs, granddaddy."

And also we want the self same sovereignty as to our style of protection (on those sedimentary face all you folks neglected) that you profess to demand when you tell us how it ought to be.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 10:30am PT
Now brother here is what you fail to see or mention, the effect of gradients. Yes, you and all that literature fail to have set up the question of how long would be the recovery time for plants to again grow in the cracks. Comparatively trails recover in a short time but once the soil and anchoring base is gone from a crack, the plant life will be gone for centuries.

I understand that, Dingus McGee, (I am married to a plant ecologist).

I will take down my babbling so that it does not mislead.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 19, 2013 - 10:37am PT
We, as a community, could do this, too. My vision would be to limit bolting to ground up and hand drilled. That automatically prevents indiscriminate bolting (IMHO).


The standard to be a mag these days is to climb 15a, and you want it put in ground-up on hand-drilled bolts. LMAO!

However, in a sense you are correct. The steeper the climbing gets, the most likely the bolts are put in ground-up, but not with a hand-drill.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 19, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Ed,

I will take down my babbling

fair enough.
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