Echo Cliffs Vandalism Easter Weekend


Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 21 - 40 of total 49 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>

Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
OK.. update.

I hauled in a 50# pack full of water, brushes and cleaner and spent my entire day on my hands and knees, scrubbing rocks. The majority of paint has been removed. This did seem to be the non-permanent type of paint, BUT it took a lot of elbow grease to remove it and some of it just wouldn't come off. Hopefully, natural weathering should take care of the rest. Water based or no.. it's still a totally inappropriate way to mark a trail IMO. Visually offensive and just plain dumb.

@David.. Thank you for clarifying and I hope you talk to your people. I'm glad you chimed in about the So Cal Climbing group to clear up any speculation. I was not going to point fingers until I had spoken directly with you to get accurate information. All the better if you guys are clear of blame.

@Levy I was present at a recent meeting with the park rangers about the Lookout closure. The official closure still only applied to the main obvious rock face that is directly over the road where falling rocks could hit cars. The Lookout itself was still open, but parking in the regular pullout is now off limits making access more difficult but not prohibited.
...Unless something changed in the last few months..?

@Pyro. Well, I was "worried about it" so I got off my ass and did something about it. From my observations, the athletic competitions almost always use tie-tags or flags these days.


PS: Now we can get back to blaming the usual suspects.. Euros and gym climbers.

PPS: I'm sunburned and cranky. I need my binky and a nap.

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
A big cheer for JTM! All the idiotic paint will probably dispear soon as the sun bakes it. Thanks!!

Social climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
All right I edited some pictures - she's tired and crabby. It was flat light so I had to overdo the saturation and contrast to show the real color of the arrows.

NPS sign:

Credit: justthemaid

All of the following are pretty much gone, as of today. The arrows were 18"-3 feet long.

Upper Gully tag:

Credit: justthemaid

Middle gully tag (as if it wasn't obvious which way to go - duh!:

Credit: justthemaid

The only useful arrow (still ridiculous) - the curved arrow at the bottom of the gully:

Credit: justthemaid

Off-trail tag, out of the gully. Really?:

Credit: justthemaid

And, finally - the Grotto tag on the face to the right of where you actually go (she had to hang over the edge to clean some of this one):

Credit: justthemaid

They don't call her "justthemaid" for nothing.

Big Wall climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
Good for skip.
I always thought the tags meant poison oak.
Echo is a great place.
Potter is always rad with his crew!
Captain...or Skully

Apr 6, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Definitely Grader's paint. Still seriously Lame.
I dig Just The Maid's Grit. She's of The Real. +So many.

Don't be a dick, Hedge.

edit:Not doggin', it seems you miss the point at hand. Just sometimes.
I reckon we all do, though. <<sigh>>


Social climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Good work there Skip :) thanks for alerting, sometimes people get the strangest ideas...
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Skip Thank you for taking care of this. Slapping it down fast is the best solution.

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
You know, there is such a thing as good citizenship. Justthemaid went way beyond just "good." Thanks for what you did.

Social climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not

Like to hear how the "Leave All Natural Features Undisturbed" sign is reconciled with what we do as climbers, especially at Echo, which is basically an outdoor gym

jhedge: you bring up an interesting point. One that is difficult to reconcile with our sport, rock quality and steepness, and mitigating danger due to rock-fall.

I feel that the "work" done at Echo Cliffs falls roughly under the "multiple use" umbrella - and given that 95% of the route development was done well before the usage parameters were defined.

Spray-painting is, well just a simple defacement. It doesn't "fall" under any "outdoor use" parameters.
Captain...or Skully

Apr 6, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Mister E drives my nail.
10 penny, too.

Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not

Well, that's a separate issue (also worth discussing). Climbing, along with the bolts that make the climbing possible are currently sort of "grandfathered in" and are permitted by the park service. Trail erosion is always an issue with any area that sees a lot of use. Land managers in every park in the world have to mitigate these issues. Realistic non-draconian compromises are often made in order to allow people to enjoy public land while at the same time not totally destroying it. The current guidelines are reasonable and should be followed even if they weren't in the past.

Unnecessary brightly colored spray-paint in the wilderness, is pretty much universally condemned. I'm guessing any ranger who caught someone spray painting rocks wouldn't just walk on by and give them a thumbs-up.

Fortunately I'm not a land manager, I'm just someone who really f*#king hates graffiti.


Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 12:46am PT
Park Rangers reading this thread might just wander down there and have a look around, and not quite feel the same about things as we do, and bye-bye Echo Cliffs

There is a great deal of alarmist rumor about Echo Cliffs that floats around on the web - perpetuated by people who don't have accurate information.

The park rangers can and do wander down there. They are well aware of the impact we have. I've been told we(climbers) are actually the smallest group they have to deal with compared to the large numbers of hikers and bikers that use the trails.

Having spoken with the head rangers face to face.. I can assure you that Echo Cliffs is not currently teetering on the brink of closure. They completely reasonable people. Their goal is to work with the public to resolve any issues that come up and keep the area open.. not find a reason to shut it down.

Captain...or Skully

Apr 7, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Don't be a puss, Hedge. I think they'd be stoked knowing that some folks actually Care.....

edit: you're edging towards "dick" again.....Life in a Vacuum, or some such.
BTW...Fuck you.

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 7, 2013 - 01:28am PT
We have had some problems with graffiti at one of our climbing areas. It was local tweaker kids.

This was full on spray paint on granite. I talked to a buddy and he said that they had good luck with a power washer hauled in there with a generator.

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Hedge...good point about bolts and chalk but i think that bolts are hard to see for the non-climber...Chalk may be easier to see but in the big picture they have low visual impact...IMHO...

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:17am PT
Thanks, JTM
Jebus H Bomz

Peavine Basecamp
Apr 7, 2013 - 11:17am PT
I am certain there are many that are opposed to slamming metal bolts and hangers on to pristine rock...

You've been to Echo right? Bolts are actually an aesthetic high point, lol.
cali kat

Apr 8, 2013 - 11:46am PT
This reminds me of when I was at Malibu Creek and saw a trail of goldfish crackers going all the way through the park. Picked up as many as I could....

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
I'm guessing any ranger who caught someone spray painting rocks wouldn't just walk on by and give them a thumbs-up.

Monday morning humor interlude.

An old friend was a ranger in Glacier NP BITD. It was past Labor Day so he
figured he had weathered another summer's worth of azzholes and idjits. He
was taking a nice cruise up and over Going To The Sun Pass. He gets to the
crest of the pass and sees a family outside their car. Thinking they might
need help he slows down. Now he needs help, with his blood pressure, when
he sees they are spray-painting the road cut! He gets out and confronts the

"What the hell do you think you're doing?"

With a smarmy sneer the dad answers, "What does it look like we're doing?"


The azzhole looks around him and says, "I don't see any sign saying I can't."

My buddy looks around and says, patting his .38, "I don't see any sign saying
I can't blow your fool head off, either."

After explaining the serious trouble the idjit was in my buddy decided to
cut them some slack and himself a bunch of paperwork. He just happened to
have a bunch of tools in his truck including a number of wire brushes. As
I recall the clean-up took a good three or four hours.

JTM - keep up the good fight!

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 8, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Skip.... Thank you for cleaning up.

I was there yesterday, didn't notice a thing... cause you had finished up.

The meetup was there... but they were OK and well behaved and were climbing the usual climbs, I did stroll through after they left and picked up some litter.... mostly banana and orange peals.

ECHO was extra beautiful cause of all the flowers blooming and it was dead calm while everyplace else was having the "wind episode" .

So thanks again for cleaning up.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 49 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews