Echo Cliffs Vandalism Easter Weekend

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 55 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Apr 6, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
Sorry Skip (JTM), I was taking a bunch of inner city urban graffiti artists to Echo for their semi annual "Tag -a- Crag" day. I just wanted them to be able to follow the trail & thought the paint option would be most familiar to them! These kids don't know the signs of a trail so I went with something they;d recognize. ;)

Seriously, I am bothered by your news of paint on the trail. Really lame.

Oh yeah, I heard that the Overlook is now closed. Can anybody else conform this. I heard from Jeff that there are signs saying that Overlook is closed.

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 6, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
next time they should go with earth tones or paper plates and ink marker
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
OK.. update.

I hauled in a 50# pack full of water, brushes and cleaner and spent my entire day on my hands and knees, scrubbing rocks. The majority of paint has been removed. This did seem to be the non-permanent type of paint, BUT it took a lot of elbow grease to remove it and some of it just wouldn't come off. Hopefully, natural weathering should take care of the rest. Water based or no.. it's still a totally inappropriate way to mark a trail IMO. Visually offensive and just plain dumb.

@David.. Thank you for clarifying and I hope you talk to your people. I'm glad you chimed in about the So Cal Climbing group to clear up any speculation. I was not going to point fingers until I had spoken directly with you to get accurate information. All the better if you guys are clear of blame.

@Levy I was present at a recent meeting with the park rangers about the Lookout closure. The official closure still only applied to the main obvious rock face that is directly over the road where falling rocks could hit cars. The Lookout itself was still open, but parking in the regular pullout is now off limits making access more difficult but not prohibited.
...Unless something changed in the last few months..?

@Pyro. Well, I was "worried about it" so I got off my ass and did something about it. From my observations, the athletic competitions almost always use tie-tags or flags these days.

Edit:

PS: Now we can get back to blaming the usual suspects.. Euros and gym climbers.

PPS: I'm sunburned and cranky. I need my binky and a nap.
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Apr 6, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
A big cheer for JTM! All the idiotic paint will probably dispear soon as the sun bakes it. Thanks!!
MisterE

Social climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
All right I edited some pictures - she's tired and crabby. It was flat light so I had to overdo the saturation and contrast to show the real color of the arrows.

NPS sign:

Credit: justthemaid

All of the following are pretty much gone, as of today. The arrows were 18"-3 feet long.

Upper Gully tag:

Credit: justthemaid

Middle gully tag (as if it wasn't obvious which way to go - duh!:

Credit: justthemaid

The only useful arrow (still ridiculous) - the curved arrow at the bottom of the gully:

Credit: justthemaid

Off-trail tag, out of the gully. Really?:

Credit: justthemaid

And, finally - the Grotto tag on the face to the right of where you actually go (she had to hang over the edge to clean some of this one):

Credit: justthemaid


They don't call her "justthemaid" for nothing.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 6, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Good for skip.
I always thought the tags meant poison oak.
Echo is a great place.
Potter is always rad with his crew!
jghedge

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not

Like to hear how the "Leave All Natural Features Undisturbed" sign is reconciled with what we do as climbers, especially at Echo, which is basically an outdoor gym
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
Definitely Grader's paint. Still seriously Lame.
I dig Just The Maid's Grit. She's of The Real. +So many.

Don't be a dick, Hedge.

edit:Not doggin', it seems you miss the point at hand. Just sometimes.
I reckon we all do, though. <<sigh>>

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
Good work there Skip :) thanks for alerting, sometimes people get the strangest ideas...
jghedge

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
"Don't be a dick, Hedge."


Just saying'

Posting that sign in this thread seems a tad ironic
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
Skip Thank you for taking care of this. Slapping it down fast is the best solution.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
You know, there is such a thing as good citizenship. Justthemaid went way beyond just "good." Thanks for what you did.
MisterE

Social climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not

Like to hear how the "Leave All Natural Features Undisturbed" sign is reconciled with what we do as climbers, especially at Echo, which is basically an outdoor gym

jhedge: you bring up an interesting point. One that is difficult to reconcile with our sport, rock quality and steepness, and mitigating danger due to rock-fall.

I feel that the "work" done at Echo Cliffs falls roughly under the "multiple use" umbrella - and given that 95% of the route development was done well before the usage parameters were defined.

Spray-painting is, well just a simple defacement. It doesn't "fall" under any "outdoor use" parameters.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
Mister E drives my nail.
10 penny, too.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not

Well, that's a separate issue (also worth discussing). Climbing, along with the bolts that make the climbing possible are currently sort of "grandfathered in" and are permitted by the park service. Trail erosion is always an issue with any area that sees a lot of use. Land managers in every park in the world have to mitigate these issues. Realistic non-draconian compromises are often made in order to allow people to enjoy public land while at the same time not totally destroying it. The current guidelines are reasonable and should be followed even if they weren't in the past.

Unnecessary brightly colored spray-paint in the wilderness, is pretty much universally condemned. I'm guessing any ranger who caught someone spray painting rocks wouldn't just walk on by and give them a thumbs-up.

Fortunately I'm not a land manager, I'm just someone who really f*#king hates graffiti.

jghedge

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 08:55pm PT

Again, just saying'

Nobody here gets to be Holier Than Thou

Drawing attention to other's rock defacement might also draw attention to our own

Park Rangers reading this thread might just wander down there and have a look around, and not quite feel the same about things as we do, and bye-bye Echo Cliffs

Maybe consider just deleting this thread?
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
Park Rangers reading this thread might just wander down there and have a look around, and not quite feel the same about things as we do, and bye-bye Echo Cliffs

There is a great deal of alarmist rumor about Echo Cliffs that floats around on the web - perpetuated by people who don't have accurate information.

The park rangers can and do wander down there. They are well aware of the impact we have. I've been told we(climbers) are actually the smallest group they have to deal with compared to the large numbers of hikers and bikers that use the trails.

Having spoken with the head rangers face to face.. I can assure you that Echo Cliffs is not currently teetering on the brink of closure. They completely reasonable people. Their goal is to work with the public to resolve any issues that come up and keep the area open.. not find a reason to shut it down.



Captain...or Skully

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Don't be a puss, Hedge. I think they'd be stoked knowing that some folks actually Care.....

edit: you're edging towards "dick" again.....Life in a Vacuum, or some such.
BTW...Fuck you.
jghedge

climber
Apr 6, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
"Don't be a puss, Hedge. I think they'd be stoked knowing that some folks actually Care....."


And I think you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about


Try educating yourself about Williamson Rock, and get back to us about how much "some folks actually care", fool.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 6, 2013 - 10:17pm PT


"Funny how bolts, chalk and trail erosion are OK, but paint's not"...

Totally depends on perspective...

I am certain there are many that are opposed to slamming metal bolts and hangers on to pristine rock...
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