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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 26, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Ya know,,, having let this sink in a little,, im gonna call BULLSHEET!

Mtlion, you cam on here a while ago begging for gear , which you got through the goodness of the tribe here. Now you come on with a post that all but calls out that same tribe because they choose to help those who have been delt a crap hand,, things like horrific accidents, mounting medical bills, cancer and the like.
All the while whinning about that same tribe being rich as#@&%es. What i DIDNT see was YOU even attempting to help others of this tribe. Not even a thread bump.


Youve more than proven your nerve here before but this time ya done hit it out of the park.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
but this time ya done hit it out of the park

Yeah, but on the wrong side of the foul pole.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 26, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Ron, I do not usually agree with you on some issues, but I think that you have called this one right.

Maybe Mountainlion, just maybe I have gotten your message wrong... but climbing gear for a nation that has to sort through trash dumps for food and other items?

I think Ron may be, I stress may be, correct in smelling... trash.

One does not need a rope to climb through a mountain of trash, wading boots may help. If you are really there, witnessing what you say, don't worry about the climbing gear, worry about the food they need to exist.

That is my take on it. There is poverty in every country of the world, every country, some of course much worse than others (yes, even in Canada and Scandinavia too, and the US as well.)

If you want to help the Filipino people (I lived with a couple for 18 month in London... okay Larry was Tagalog, Nuala was from Belfast, and I worked with Filipinos, and one of my mom's closest friends was from the Philippines). Help them for real.

If you really want to help the people... I do not know what the nutritional value of a cam or a rope is. Do you Mountainlion? Social value of climbing gear? But one cannot climb on an empty stomach. Or severely ill.

Mountainlion, I do not know what your game is, and I cannot speak for other posters, but...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 26, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
"what is a worthy cause" by Mountainlion



Never mind Blitzos cancer, Johns shattered leg or Big Mikes recovery,, just send bolts so i can impress the local villagers.

If you dont ill call you as#@&%es..


THE END....



locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 26, 2013 - 02:40pm PT


...

John M

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 03:42am PT
I'm beginning to think you have a comprehension problem mountainlion. You can't seem to understand that the donations for that party are to help pay for the party. Have you never thrown a bring your own beer party? This isn't much different except the people are shelling out some bucks to make it fun and are asking for donations to help make it fly. They aren't begging. So get off your damn high horse and grow up.

Yes.. people starve all over the world. Should everyone stop having fun because that happens? They are throwing a big party.. Thats all. They aren't starting a new war. They aren't stealing. They aren't raping anyone. They are just throwing a big party and asking for donations to help fund it.

Is it over the top? I have no idea. 10 buck donation for booze, barbecue and music isn't really that much. America spent 8 billion dollars a month on the iraq war and this party bothers you more? good grief.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 07:54am PT
Nice try at trying to explain yourself Saint Mountainlion, but... didn't work for me. Try again. And be a bit more humble.

And just to add, I can learn more humility myself. I am trying.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 27, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Has anyone climbed with Mountainlion or does anyone here know his real name from meeting him in person? Not saying he's not genuine, but reading this story and was thinking of him and his question to title this thread: "What is a worthy cause". I figured that getting shoes for shoeless feet would be worthy. Indeed.




http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/give_him_the_boot_FKlhXh3eJx09zq9oQi73HI

"Give him the boot
Posted: March 27, 2013

So it now turns out that Jeffrey Hillman, the barefoot beggar who famously received a free pair of boots from a big-hearted police officer, not only has an apartment but pockets as much as several hundred dollars a day while pretending to be homeless.

Hillman freely admitted as much to a team of Post reporters who followed him home on the subway Sunday — and then watched as he calmly counted a huge wad of bills. Not to mention that he seems to be the Imelda Marcos of the streets, with at least 30 pairs of shoes and boots.



Most New Yorkers will doubtless be disappointed to learn that the inspiring tale of a police officer’s kindness to a man in distress would have such a cynical denouement. Few, however, will be surprised. Even so, there is a moral to this story that is especially timely. The beggar whose charade spurred Officer Larry DePrimo's act of kindness is a fraud.

New York is a generous city, at both the individual and government level. In addition to private charity, those in need can count on a whole raft of services, from shelter to food to rent subsidies and Medicaid. Our guess is that most New Yorkers are more than willing to pay so long as their dollars go to help people truly in distress.

Hillman reminds us how easy it is to exploit generosity. His scam seems to have been directed at passers-by who take pity on a man who goes about Midtown pretending to be barefoot, poor and homeless. His example reminds us why it is important for the city to ensure that its own assistance is not exploited by those who don’t need it.

For in addition to the needy, New York also has a whole class of politicians and activists quick to denounce City Hall as cruel and heartless (and to sue) whenever it takes reasonable measures to weed out the deserving from the undeserving.

When the NYPD’s Larry DePrimo bought those now-famous boots, he represented the best of this city. People such as Jeffrey Hillman remind us that when the greedy take advantage, there’s more cynicism about giving — and less help to go around for those truly in need."


Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Couchmaster, right on.

Here is another one that mountainlion may want to ponder on...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21955740

Madagascar hit by 'severe' plague of locusts

"Nearly 60% of the island's more than 22 million people could be threatened by a significant worsening of hunger”


And we should be worried about climbing gear?

Oh yeah, mountainlion, I am a RICH ASSHOLE. Please tell me, where are my riches, because I could certainly use those riches..

I still have a roof over my head and food in the cupboard, and trying to keep Jennie from full-time care, but I am facing eviction. And I am sure that the Filipinos you care so much about have less than I do...

... and you want bolts, hangers and climbing gear.

Call me stupid, but I don't get it.

Are you for real? Or just a rich self-righteous troll?



EDIT

Gian, below. Great post. I only edit in this post because it looks like the thread has been taken down, after I tried to post a thanks to you for informing us. I'd imagine, and I could be wrong, that Mountainlion nuked the thread (so, how come I can still edit this post?)
Gian

Sport climber
Lapu Lapu City, Cebu, Philippines
Mar 28, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
I can't take it anymore! Mountainlion, you almost destroyed my credibility as a blogger/adventurer but I'm not going to let you embarrass our citizens as Cebuanos/Filipinos.

I watch people live HAND TO MOUTH

people who can't afford even the simplest pleasures of life

Food, clothing, shelter, medical care, toys etc are in need here in the Philippines

Mountainlion, will you please stop making it seem as if we are poorer than we actually are? It is damned embarrassing and TOTALLY WRONG! What you're seeing there are slums of Talisay, which is in close proximity to your place. Maybe you've seen beggars and destitutes, who are actually in any other place in the world.

For once, go around the Cebu island and check out other places there; you will see lots of people living comfortably. Can't you see innumerable citizens shopping in malls, enjoying high-class resorts, going island hopping, buying things, etc.?

Besides, poverty is relative. What you perceive as "poor" may be actually be average. What you may see as "hand to mouth" may actually be people who love simple dishes, who are on a diet, or who have small appetites. You yourself eat just bananas and peanuts on the crag; we eat a whole lunch of rice, chicken or pork, and vegetables. Does that make you poor in our (Filipinos) eyes considering that you're just eating what we consider as snacks instead of a full-blown lunch? Of course, not.

And what gives you the right to judge people that they don't have the "simple pleasures in life?" Having food on the table, having fun with friends, bonding with families, caring for a pet, going to the beach, etc. may be simple pleasures in life for them but NOT for you. Again, "simple" is relative. You grew up in the US, so your standards of simple living may not be the same here. Don't judge us according to YOUR standards. Can you see people here, regardless of financial capability, HAPPY and SMILING? Even the kids on the streets?

it is easier to see that when you watch children roll a bike tire down the street for fun because they have nothing to play with

many children here grow up without ever actually having a real toy????

What's a real toy for you? Plastic gizmos? Remote control cars? Again, it's relative. Children here love to use cardboard boxes, tires, pieces of wood, etc. because 1) they have fun making their own toys, 2) they use their imagination, 3) they provide them mental and physical exercise. Hell, when me and my friends were young, we even played with hollow papaya stalks as blowguns, converted thin bamboo into "guns" that fire wet newspaper pellets, and put together newspaper and sticks made into kites. And we had a lot of fun, in fact, lots more fun compared to rich kids who have expensive toys. Go to any home in the Philippines, and you'll see lots of discarded "commercial" toys. What remains are toys that are made through imagination and creativity.

Since I have been here there have been maybe 50 foreign climbers from the U.S. and Europe who have used the climbing area for 5 pesos (less than a penny). While using the bolts (which need replacing) and generally showing what RICH ASSHOLES they are as they buy beers after climbing that would pay for a weeks food but don't pay the climbers who helped them

Please don't make any assumption that they're not paying. You haven't seen behind the scenes. For your info, they do not pay the guides IF they bring their own equipment. If not, or if they need a climbing partner, they do pay the guides...but they don't do it at the crag. They do it where no one will see them (e.g. after the climb at the guide's house, before the climb at the guide's house, a local eatery, etc.) In our culture, unless it's a normal commercial transaction, we don't pay a "private" transaction in front of other people's eyes because we consider it embarrassing. Yes, that might sound strange to you, but it is our CULTURE!

It's funny that you should mention foreigners not paying. You, a foreigner, climb the crag and ask the guides to belay you. And YOU don't pay them! You just go home directly after you have your fill of climbing. No, the Php5 don't count; that's the fee to use the crag, not the guide payment. But did they accost you for not paying for their services? No, because you have your own equipment; they're just CONSIDERATE enough to let you go without paying their services because I told them to give you a break.

And you don't see foreigners inviting the guides for a beer or a night of drinking because you go home directly after your climb at the cliff. Stay for a while after we freshen up, and you'd see these same foreigners DEMANDING that the guides go with them for a drink or for a night of fun. Have you ever wondered why the local guides are sometimes giddy in the weekend?

Most of the crag has been developed by foriegners who donated the bolts to climb themselves

Get your facts straight before you post something like this because it generates misconceptions. While there are indeed foreigners who donated bolts, a large number of the bolts, huecos, rap rings, etc. are donated/bought/invested upon by Cebuano and Manila climbers who were able to go abroad and buy these things. It was a collaborative effort that ranged for 8 years.

many different people to try climbing for the first time

Yes, but do MOST of these first-time people take up the sport so that they look forward to have it as a lifelong sport, a pastime or a hobby? Nope, only a small percentage of it. You donated the climbing gear to guides and regular climbers who lacked equipment, not "people who tried climbing for the first time."

I have also looked into having bolts made here to make this cheaper for me to accomplish.

Aha! And you once gave me unsolicited advice about safety! Eat your own words. The reason why we are eyeing to buy quality bolts and not tailor our own is precisely because of safety! And you're disregarding the first rule of any extreme sport...which you advised me...unsolicited, unwanted, and insulting.

About the topic itself:

Yes, we do need bolts and hangers to equip a new route in Campo Siete. But don't ask for donations of such things using the excuse of poverty. It's very degrading, pathetic, and embarrassing. Remember that for most people, these are luxuries, not necessities.

The real reasons why we are asking for donations is that 1) we don't have any shops in Cebu that sells climbing hangers and bolts, 2) we want to expand the climbing areas in Cebu, 3) we want to develop tourism in the area, and 4) we want to provide the local guides extra income.

There's no need to use your perception of poverty about us to gain the sentiments of other people. Hell, if there was an establishment here that sells hangers and bolts, I'm sure a horde of climbers will definitely purchase bulk orders of such items. Unfortunately, there's none, so that's why donations are needed.

Finally, don't use the guilt card and insult your targeted sponsors. That's like having a coffee business and insulting your customers so that they'll buy coffee from you (I don't know how that will work). I am in the same project and I don't hide the fact that we need donations. But I did my plea in a more humble, truthful way, which is posted in Facebook and a few other websites:

Hi friends! As part of our effort to make Cebu a world-class rock climbing destination, we are planning to bolt a nice cliff somewhere in Camp 7 (along Manipis Road in the midlands of Cebu) for sport climbing. However, bolting a route is quite a complicted matter in this part of the world, particularly because 1) it is expensive and 2) there are no suppliers of hangers and bolts here.

If you would like to help us in this endeavor (and it's a noble purpose indeed for the sake of tourism and promotion of our beloved island), you can donate expansion bolts and hangers. 10 such bolts and hangers and 2 rappel hangers are needed to establish a single route. And as far as we know, the cliff can accommodate around 40 to 60 routes.

Check this link for information about climbing hangers and bolts. Photos of bolts, hangers, and rappel hangers (anchors at the top of the route) can be seen at the right side of the page.

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ContentPrimary/Learn/Climbing/Hardware/BoltsAndAnchors.jsp

In return for your generosity, we will name the bolted routes after you (or you can provide us any word, term, phrase, or name that you want).

Our coaches have specific parameters in mind. So please send me a PM so I can give you the specs of what we need. Thank you.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 28, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
+100 Gian! It might be better to start your own thread, i'm sure you would recieve a better reaction.
Gian

Sport climber
Lapu Lapu City, Cebu, Philippines
Mar 28, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
It might be better to start your own thread, i'm sure you would recieve a better reaction.

That's okay, Big Mike. I just want to explain to Mountainlion that what he's doing is definitely wrong and actually goes below the belt. In fact, my girlfriend and I severed ties of friendship with him because we can't handle his behavior and attitude.

Good luck on your recovery, man. How are you?

Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
Some folks just get carried away at times, Gian...we see it here all the time. Cheers to you & yours.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 28, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
Wow, totally thought this was a troll until I went back into his post history.


Man... whatever drugs you are on... I've got to get my hands on it.

Some wild sh!t grows in the jungle....
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