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ghisino
climber
Italy/France
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 25, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
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After buying the howto book as advised here, today i was at my local "crag" (railway bridge) to test my basic aid skills.
given the peculiar nature of the pocketed stone ended up hooking the whole pitch (protected by bolts), and this made me ask to myself how do people usually rack their hooks.
one hook-one biner?
several hooks on the same biner?
if you expect several hooking moves in a row, do you bother re-racking your hooks or keep em on the ladders?
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RJNelson
climber
A few different places
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Mar 25, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
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I'm curious too. I use a petzl caritool to rack em. Works great. I also used cord instead of webbing as it racks much nicer. I even went a step further and color coded my hooks. One for talon, one for hooks, and one for cams. With the caritool, I'm able to select them by color and not have to ever un rack them. Maybe overkill, but its efficient and fool proof.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Mar 25, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
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It kinda depends how desperate the hooking is...definately fast if you leave them there, but they hook on sh#t too and can cause extra movements. I've also kept a cam hook on each aider too during easy clean aid for those quick in between moves, I sometimes keep cams there too for "cam jugging" easy cracks.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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Hooks?
Ugh. Nightmare material. As the name suggests, they "hook" on everything. Constantly.
Best strategy is to have your partner lead the hooking pitches. Let him/her deal with them.
Which is too bad, as hooking is a lot of fun.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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Fish small Beef Bag.
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
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I back up what Hudon says.
They need their own bag to do their hooking in.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
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You want to rack your hooks for redundancy. They are one of the easiest things to drop when on the big wall, if only because you may be scared when using them!
First thing is to divide your hooks into two or three separate sets, assuming you have two or three of each. You should definitely have at least two Cliffhanger aka Skyhooks and two Grappling hooks, as these are your "workhouse" hooks. I sharpen all of mine to a point, I see little benefit to the flat head they come with.
After you separate them into sets, sling each set with the same coloured sling. This way, when you rack a set of hooks, you can put all of one colour slings on one crab, and all of one colour slings on another crab. That way if you drop one crab full of hooks - heaven forbid! - you can't lose all of the same size.
I remember this Japanese dude who was soloing Sea of Dreams, and he bailed from above Big Sur Ledge after he dropped both his Cliffhangers. Hell, I have about four of those, plus a roll of duct tape and some Screamers, for when I get really scared.
Finally, get yourself a Fish Beef Bag for each set of hooks. This will prevent hooks from hooking on things on your rack when you're not actually using them. When your hooks are in use, rack them up high on your front sub-racks.
Cheers, eh?
Pete
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Mar 25, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
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You don't need a bag. I rack my hooks on 2 biners, yes But I just have a little loop on the top(shoulder) of my wallrack(A5 type) and they stay up there out of everything else. They're easy to get and don't EVER hang up on stuff.
No "purse" needed.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Mar 26, 2013 - 12:26am PT
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I usually use a small bag, like mentioned above.
My partner has one each talon, cliffhanger, and grappling Tied on a rap ring. Each hook has it's own sling. Very compact, attaches to the ladders and you just pick the hook, let the others hang.
Great for when you have to get all sporty up there.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Mar 26, 2013 - 09:25am PT
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Yup, they work well on a ring for me. Stow them in a chalk bag until I get to a hooking section then try come out and onto my aiders. When I solo, I keep extra for leaving as pro; heavier that way but I climb heavy (no tag rack) so I'm used to the weight.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 26, 2013 - 09:46am PT
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The turquoise sling on Kirk's Grappling Hook in the photo above [top right] looks to be a bit long. I tend to keep my hook slings fairly short, just long enough so the carabiner you clip into it doesn't interfere with the hooking action or pry it away from the wall.
I hate to lose even an inch or two of height.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 26, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
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I've also kept a cam hook on each aider too during easy clean aid for those quick in between moves.
Me, too, because that's where they're least likely to hang up if not bagged, and, at the same time, they're convenient, quick to deploy, and always at the front of my thoughts.
I also keep an old-fashioned (circa 1970) Chouinard cliff hanger readily available to fit onto the end of my hammer for an instant "Denny Arm" (See "Realm of the Overhang" in the Sierra Club Bulletin.)
John
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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What Hudon said ^
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
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I just googled the fish beef bag. You guys really put that on your harness when leading?
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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Mar 26, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
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I tried a hook bag on a few walls and didn't like it. Too much fumbling to get the right hook out.
I used to wear my hooks like Capt. Kirk, I think he's the one that actually showed me this technique. I ran with this system for many years but finally switched because I started noticing bruises and sore back muscles from flipping the hooks out of my way, all the time.
Now, I have two identical racks of hooks and keep them right in front on my chest harness so I can easily maintain them.
If it's an extensive hooking pitch I'll leave them on my daisy/aider but the second I don't need them anymore I get them the 'ell out of there.
AND I think that Turquoise sling is the perfect length... exactly how I would have rigged it.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Mar 26, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
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Chicks dig bruises, don't they?
Rigging on individual hooks is subject to change based on premises conditions.As always. I COULD critique your junk show,Pete, but I don't.
edit: Whatever, man. It's all good. Quibble yer heart out.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 27, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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A critique is not a criticism, Kirk. There is a difference.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Mar 27, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
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There's one of those beef bags up on ebay for $15.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Mar 27, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
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There ya go: the guy who gets up walls in a matter of hours doesn't like fumbling with the bag, and the guy who's spent hundreds of nights up there runs the bag. I kinda like Kirk's idea, though I haven't tried it. Compared to these guys, though, my opinion is worthless.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Mar 27, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
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Sweet thread
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 27, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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It's pretty easy, really.
"Do my hooks get tangled up with other stuff all the time?"
If yes, use a Fish Beef Bag.
If no, find a way to rack them where they don't tangle so much. A few ways to keep them from tangling is to:
 avoid having hooks near nylon and cams that they love to hook
keep hooks racked near pins, heads, wires, and other metallic "tanglies"
keep your "tanglies" on a separate sub-rack away from things like nylon and cams
when you wear hooks on your rack while leading or cleaning, keep them up high and front where you can keep half an eye on them
only put things next to hooks that won't tangle, such wires and free crabs
WHEN to use the bag is also important. For instance, when you're actually on lead, do you really want the hook bag or not?
What do you do with your hooks when they're not on you? In my racking system, everything gets stuck onto a sub-rack, and chucked into the piglet to be hauled first by the leader, along with the tops of the haul lines and the anchor kit. You can bloody well bet that when my hooks go on a sub-rack inside of a piglet, they are contained in bags.
Chongo put me onto hook bags, and I really like them. To me, a bunch small or medium Fish Beef Bags is really a great way to reduce tangling and clusterf*#kage in your racking system.
Incidentally, Russ - I really wish you made those Beef Bags in more colours than just blue. Or at least blue is the only colour that I have. [HINT]
Beef bags are great for containing Peckers, too. Although if you put racking/cleaning loops through their top, and rack them all pointing in the same direction away from you, they won't tangle as much. But I use Fish Beef bags for Peckers, too. All the time. Hell, yeah.
Russ' Fish bags are superb for big wall camping. I particularly like that they come in so many different sizes and colours. I have some on my rack that have done over 40 El Cap routes. Those would be the ones held together by endless patches, sewing and of course Plasti-Dip!
Finally, you should never get angry at a little hook that is tangling up in stuff on your rack. Remember, he is only doing his job.
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