Begging on Supertopos


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Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Splitter, some day you shall reap the goodness that you have sown, hopefully
soon. And, contrary to my previous poor attempt at humor, I'd be honored
to have you as my neighbor, even if it meant having to buy some extra umbrellas. ;-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
For as much as we complain about troll threads. Many times good things come out of them that perhaps would not have come to light otherwise, like Splitters contributions to this thread. Obviously it touched a nerve with many of us here.

It seems to me that more often then not, these threads start legitimate discussions. Some of the best threads on st have been started by trolls. Obviously they serve their place as well.
Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Mmm bacon!
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Splitter, I cannot add to what other people have said. But, wow, as Werner and others have put it. If I could help you I would, believe me. But I had to put Jennie into hospital today.

But you show us what strength is really about. I admire you, big time. Your post has helped me realize, there is light at the end of the tunnel. My hat is off to you sir.

And I tip my cap to other Supertopians who have or are experiencing troubles, griefs and lows. It makes me feel very humble.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
I am bumping this thread, not for the OP's original purpose (which sucks, if I may be judgmental), but some of the stories and posts are heart warming, enlightening and have given me strength.

Actually, the OP jerk had an axe to grind, but in fact, the stories and posts that have come out on this thread have, at least to me, done a good service. I would suppose that the OP did not expect that. And I do not care. This thread shows that the SuperTopo forum is not just about climbing, but life.

As a climber since 1969, never reaching the heights I wanted to, but trying...

The Taco Stand is the best IMO. I let my feelings and emotions out here. I wish I could post more climbing topics and TRs, but for the time being I cannot. But the genuine folks on the forum give me comfort.

Thanks all.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
PS - thank you sir. truth is, i am 90%+ whine, bleep & moan. i have to admit that i was not someone that anyone would want to be around for any length of time. in fact, i hatched a plan & did my very best (or worst) to alienate my mother, brother & sister, the ones closest to me. i said some pretty rotten things. b'cuz, at one point i was determined to end it. i gave it a pretty darn good shot (ending it) but it backfired.

i didn't want to hurt them, so i figured i could somehow make it less painful for them if i could get them to hate me, disown me, be glad that it was over for me. well, it really didn't work so well, i just couldn't completely burn that bridge. our family has been thru so much together, we have that bond. i mean, we can't stand to be around each other at times, but when the going gets the ruff'est, which it has so many times, we're there for each other. we have suffered so much together. but, i just didn't want them to suffer/hurt because of me, so i was instrumental in instituting that distance, but we are remain close spiritually/lift each other up in prayer, etc (church speak, lol) which is most important, imo.

i was going thru something straight from hell. but in the process, some things were brought to the surface, some very bitter and selfish things that were in my heart. i was 'sifted', as they say. as i look back, at my life, people i let down, situations where i was called and could have made a difference, but turned my head and went another way. the self centered direction i chose instead, there probably wasn't any other way (but a trial by fire, lol). i have heard that the apostles were just mere men. if that is the case, then i am truly, the mere'st of men.

Patrick, you have stuck with Jennie through thick and thin, i don't think anyone could ask for, or expect anything more of anyone. please hold your head high. i am hoping and praying for a miracle in your and Jennie's life, and i know i am not alone in doing so here on ST. i will be honest with you, i am not exactly sure what 'tender mercies', are, but i do know that they exist. i am hoping and praying that they are showered down upon Jennie and you. my heart is with you, you are a courageous man and she must be a wonderful woman. what i see is a very special bond, i would call it the truest of love. thank you for being there for another very precious human being, you are a living testimony of what true
love is all about.

Brokendownclimber - you have done what you could, no one could ask for anything more. sometimes, just being there is worth its weight in gold. that is something that can't be bought, when it comes from ones heart.

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
When I could, I did. It's not always possible for those of us who are "retired" to do so. Unfortunate that the need usually exceeds the resources available to help in a meaningful way.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
I was ready to give up on Jennie today. Let the pros take care of her, after the visit to the doctor.

But... Splitter, Brokendownclimber and others have shown me, not to give up. I have to try.

She is afraid of me going up at the quarry and bouldering and free soloing, says she does not want to see, yet she also need to get out, for her own peace of mind. So we go on the beach or Dun Laoghaire Pier.

I have no answers, no solutions. Just trying...

I want to be in Ben Nevis, ice climbing. I want to be in the Valley, finally do El Cap, I want to be in Chamonix.

But I am here, trying to sort things out.

Some of the posts on this thread help me a lot. Not as a climber (and I did lead 5.11 at one point and did a couple of walls, and minimal ice climbing and some mountains), but the posters on this thread (bar the OP and one or two others) give me hope.

Thanks people.


In my opinion, this is what makes Supertopo a great forum. We talk about life, not just climbing. Climbing may be a common 'thread', but our life experiences come into play

I am not knocking other forums... Mountain Project, RC, UK Climbing, Irish Climbing, and others, but the ST forum is alive, with life. Never boring, that is for sure.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 26, 2013 - 09:36am PT
I don't know why I ever posted on this thread, but it's to late to go back. But, I feel as though I have taken a step in some direction. You take that first step, stop abruptly, and it feels like your in the middle of nowhere, and its to late to go back. I mean, back doesn't exist in this thing, this game called life, eh?

And I just wanted to say that the most precious commodity I have, is called faith. In my opinion, it is priceless. Why? Because with faith, you are NEVER hopeless. It may seem like you get pretty damn close to hopelessness at times, but it's a lie, that is one word or thing (whatever ya want to call it) that doesn't exist in an X'tians life, and shouldn't exist in anyone's life, imo. I woke up this morning with this strong compulsion that I should level with ya, and that I had left that out.

Like I said, I'm not sure why I even posted on this thread, my life is not some shining example of what you will be blessed with, or whatever...on the contrary. I don't have any pictures to post of the life long wife that God blessed me with, and the kid[s] that just graduated from med school, or Bazerkley, or wherever. Or the two story log cabin with a view of the White Mts in one direction and Mt, Tom in the other, and, blah, blah, blah.

But, I said i lost EVERYTHING. Not true. I didn't lose my faith, and, therefor I haven't lost hope. It can feel pretty miniscule/shakey at times...but we don't live by feelings. I don't mean to rub this in your face, but, I woke up this morning and I felt like I had left that out, should share that with ya, fwiw!

And my hope is that things are going to get better, not worse, for everyone (including myself) that has either posted on this thread, or this thread is in someway or other about.


edit: one other thing that i left out. i said that i did everything i could to burn that bridge between myself & my mother, sister & brother. that wud generally be a hard thing to do in any true 'family' situation, particularly between mother & son. but, like i said, i gave it a damn good shot, and managed to distance them from me, BUT, there is an even stronger bond than 'family' (which should be analagous to family) and that is love.

What am I getting at? Well, in my opinion, it (life) is all about, faith, hope and love. And, btw, the "the greatest of these is love". ...something i found out the hard way! i will always love my family, although i haven't seen some of them in years. and i can only hope that they will always love me.

"And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

i also hope that no one gives up. i can certainly understand giving up. i mean, i have already posted (on the movie director who jumped off the bridge thread) about how the docs said that me feet would 1st go numb and then my legs would become paralyzed. well my feet did exactly that. so i had, imo, to act fast. i said i had considered the coronado bridge, etc.! well, memories of myself coming too on my bedroom floor doing the 'funky chicken' with a noose around my neck (the eyebolt pulled that i had set in a beam) is not EXACTLY a strong testimony of FAITH/HOPE, eh? well, one other thing, were instructed to look forward, not back. hope is a thing of the future.

i said that if the apostles (whom x'tians are supposed to look at as examples of faith, etc) were 'mere men', then i am the 'mear'est of men'! believe me when i say3, i have good reason to believe so!!

ANYWAY, like i said, or at least hoped to imply, in my first post here, was that this is not about me (my lame situation) it was about how you can't always "prepare" for certain situations, and that having friends that care about you is "a very good thing!!!

Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Sheesh... a lot of good posts on this thread! Lots of people in tough situations that I'll be thinking about and praying for. Glad ST can provide some community because, as has been said, we are a social race, dependent upon community.

However, aside from sad, unforseen sh*t happening (which I know HAPPENS), no one has dealt with the OP's original thought that there are people out there who refuse to grow up because it's easier to depend on someone else than it is to do the hard work of life for yourself. I know because I used to be one of them. (Hell yeah, I'd rather climb than work!) I was living with an entitlement mentality that said that everyone else owes ME (and you're an a-hole if you don't agree)!

Surely there are people out there like I used to be. Or is EVERYONE a victim?

No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.

Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Yeah, I can agree with that... slightly off.

Uh-oh locker... you just opened up another whole can-o-werms.

Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 08:42am PT
No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.

No offence pbernard02, but I think the point that a lot of people are trying to make... is that sh#t happens.

You could be driving down the road and a semi smacks into you (as happened to a friend in Belfast recently).

Actually they call them articulated lorries over here.

Several years ago, one of my nephews fell asleep in his semi and smashed into another semi up near Redding on Highway 5. He was the only one hurt but the CHP and firemen took almost two hours to cut him out of his rig. He lost some toes and was in rehab for a long time.

He did not mean or foresee that he would crash his truck.

Sh#t happens. And when it does, society, us, should be supportive.

So it is not such a simple matter of "social responsibility" as you put it/ask Bernard.

But I will agree, that there is a "victim" culture, especially in the US it seems. Some people do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

I have always, always, held my hands up if I messed up, mea culpa. I have never sought to blame somebody or make excuses for my f*ckups. (My late mother, late brother Mac, brother Casey, and uncles, taught me that. Especially Mom and Mac, "take responsibility for your actions", good or bad.)

And on the flip side, it is nice to be recognized for doing a good job.

To iterate, I agree, there is somewhat of a 'culture' out there to try and avoid responsibility for one's actions. To point the finger elsewhere.

But when sh#t happens, people do need help. We are a social species, a pack animal, IMO that is why we have survived as a species.

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:01am PT
locker has a great point.

Society is f#cked up. I have NEVER had an easy time of it in this culture. So much falseness we live with in today's world. So much unimportant BS being touted as THE WAY. So many scams being perpetrated against us, affecting our health, freedom (of mind anyway)and well being.
There are times I honestly can't stand it and I have to disappear myself.

30 days on the trail last summer, talking to other folks doing the same thing, living out with the deer. I was in heaven. Never wanted to come out.

I pace the box I live in like a rat in a cage.
The weather so cold outside it freezes my breath in my throat.

So I jog in place and the cat streaks down the hall. I chase. We have fun. I go to work and wonder what is it all for?

I'll be back in the Sierra by summers end.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Hossjulia, get back to your cubicle.

How dare you take a month off to hike. ;-)

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Billions of people would kill for a cubicle. ;-)

Mar 27, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Cross posted this on Mountainlions "What is a worthy cause" thread.

full link:

"Give him the boot
Posted: March 27, 2013

So it now turns out that Jeffrey Hillman, the barefoot beggar who famously received a free pair of boots from a big-hearted police officer, not only has an apartment but pockets as much as several hundred dollars a day while pretending to be homeless.

Hillman freely admitted as much to a team of Post reporters who followed him home on the subway Sunday — and then watched as he calmly counted a huge wad of bills. Not to mention that he seems to be the Imelda Marcos of the streets, with at least 30 pairs of shoes and boots.

Most New Yorkers will doubtless be disappointed to learn that the inspiring tale of a police officer’s kindness to a man in distress would have such a cynical denouement. Few, however, will be surprised. Even so, there is a moral to this story that is especially timely. The beggar whose charade spurred Officer Larry DePrimo's act of kindness is a fraud.

New York is a generous city, at both the individual and government level. In addition to private charity, those in need can count on a whole raft of services, from shelter to food to rent subsidies and Medicaid. Our guess is that most New Yorkers are more than willing to pay so long as their dollars go to help people truly in distress.

Hillman reminds us how easy it is to exploit generosity. His scam seems to have been directed at passers-by who take pity on a man who goes about Midtown pretending to be barefoot, poor and homeless. His example reminds us why it is important for the city to ensure that its own assistance is not exploited by those who don’t need it.

For in addition to the needy, New York also has a whole class of politicians and activists quick to denounce City Hall as cruel and heartless (and to sue) whenever it takes reasonable measures to weed out the deserving from the undeserving.

When the NYPD’s Larry DePrimo bought those now-famous boots, he represented the best of this city. People such as Jeffrey Hillman remind us that when the greedy take advantage, there’s more cynicism about giving — and less help to go around for those truly in need."

John M

Mar 27, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
When the NYPD’s Larry DePrimo bought those now-famous boots, he represented the best of this city. People such as Jeffrey Hillman remind us that when the greedy take advantage, there’s more cynicism about giving — and less help to go around for those truly in need."

To add to the cynicism, there was a news story that talked to some cops and they said all the cops knew this guy had an apartment and wasn't homeless because he had been picked up in the past many times. So the cop doing the giving was really just taking advantage of PR opportunity. Otherwise, how did they get the nice pictures.

Gym climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
^ ^
Nice, a double level scam, with the public the losers, as usual!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Mar 27, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
Hossjulia I want you to know... I read every post of yours I see, I savor your words, I respect your opinion.


Fitting in isn't for everyone. I can only maintain the Grand Illusion for limited periods of time.

And yet?

I see Masters of Illusion, daily. Folks who can navigate the white water of society while swimming with sharks and smiling all the while. They live to 90 and when they pass people mourn their losses. Its always blown me away.

You see a smiling white haired old man in the park... he could be a former tycoon, or a child molester or a life long bully or drunk.... or he could be the nicest man in the universe.

From the smile alone you just can't tell.

Weird, huh? We all start and finish this life in the same way - its the in-betweens that'll get to ya.


Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:51am PT
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