Begging on Supertopos


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Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 25, 2013 - 02:32am PT
LilaBiene - From my own experiences, I believe with every fiber of my being, that it's connection that we need above everything else...
Yes, I believe that is very true also.

And speaking of exactly that, WOW, I didn't expect what I posted to have this much impact, it is really moving. To be honest, I was initially hoping that it had drifted off the front page overnight, since I was having second thoughts about what I posted. But after reading all of your kind responses, and, how many of you have experienced similar things, I must say that I am glad that I did share with you. I have the urge, or desire to respond to each and every one of you. But, more than a few, have revealed things that take me beyond words, or at least, I don't have the proper words to respond with.

But maybe I could somehow share one more thing with you that may help express the way I feel in general. Actually, I typed this same story some 5-6 months ago, hesitated to post it, then lost it. I had been wanting to share it with ST/everyone, then it kind of lost its timeliness, but perhaps now would suffice.

When I was living in Belle Cote, Cape Breton and in kindergarten, one Spring morning while waiting for class to begin in our little one room schoolhouse, a group of us noticed these two young kids, brother and sister (my age 5/6). They were walking up towards the school, hand in hand.

Someone mentioned something I wasn't aware of, that their mother, whom they lived alone with (no father) had passed away the night before. One of the older girls (maybe 8/9) replied, "Poor kids, they don't even know that they don't have to come to school today." and she went and intercepted them with that information, and they turned around and began the long walk home.

I had figured that she did the right thing by sending them home. And I never really thought any differently about it until last summer, when I lost my own mother rather suddenly. And, although we were blessed to have her with us for many years, it didn't seem to make it any easier when she was suddenly gone. In fact, it hit me very hard.

The prior 12 or so hours kept running through my mind, and other segments of our life. Some thoughts were just too hard to bear at the moment, particularly sitting alone in my apartment. I needed someone, so I turned to the only place I new where other people had turned to in similar times, here/SuperTopo.

I didn't say anything about my mom, I was to sick with grief. I just read every thread I could, listened to music and occasionally posted. I must say that I also turned to faith, hope and prayer because I new my younger brother was also particularly hurting since he had taken her in and cared for her since our father had passed away a number of years ago. But I was really hurting also. I didn't sleep for at least 3-4 days! Those were very long days and nights, and I am very thankful for SuperTopo helping me get through them.

Sometime during that time, between moments of deep grief, prayer, and spending much time here, I recalled those two little kids, the brother & sister. And I realized that they hadn't gone to school that day because they had to go, it was because they wanted to go. They needed to be, had chosen to be with someone, rather than be home all alone.

Thanks for being here for me when I needed you most!


Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Mar 25, 2013 - 02:40am PT
Beautiful, hard, painful and powerful thoughts and experiences that Splitter, Lilabiene and others are sharing. Not easy to do, I and others here understand that very well. But ultimately, it can be helpful to reach out. We do need connection and camaraderie; these somehow are core needs beyond shelter and sustenance. In the best of time and the worst of times.

You all are appreciated all the more for having done so. At least in my humble eyes.

Peace and godspeed to you all.

Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 03:07am PT
Wow guys!! Did this thread ever turn for the better!

Hossjulia- i am sorry to hear about your loss. There is really nothing more i could say other than things will get better. Good people get what they deserve in the long run.

Lilabene- thanks for re-iterating that tale. I'm glad you are feeling better and moving forward with your life.

John m- i am sorry to hear that you are sick. You can't pay any mind to the trolls on here. It's just like real life. Some people will always want to bring you down. Thank you for sharing, and know that most on here will be sympathetic if you are willing to share. I wish you the best in your continued struggles. Please feel free to pm me if you want to talk or if i can help in any way.

Splitter- wow dude! Once again you've blown me away. Please know that you will always have a friend up north and pm me any time you wish....

Ed- the nice thing about the taco funds is that the proceeds go directly to the person who needs it. Yes there is more potential for fraud this way, but if you are willing to put some research time in, i'm sure you can tell for yourself wether that person is really in need of such assistance.

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Mar 25, 2013 - 09:02am PT
"Kindness is the language that the deaf can hear, and the blind can see."

Mark Twain

"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good thing,
therefore, that I can do or any kindness I can show to any fellow human
being let me do it now. Let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not
pass this way again."

Stephen Grellet, 1773-1855
French-born Quaker Minister
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Mar 25, 2013 - 11:55am PT
For as much as we complain about troll threads. Many times good things come out of them that perhaps would not have come to light otherwise, like Splitters contributions to this thread. Obviously it touched a nerve with many of us here.

Hope all you guys and gals going through tough times get through them soon and can continue enjoying the good things life has to offer.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Splitter, some day you shall reap the goodness that you have sown, hopefully
soon. And, contrary to my previous poor attempt at humor, I'd be honored
to have you as my neighbor, even if it meant having to buy some extra umbrellas. ;-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
For as much as we complain about troll threads. Many times good things come out of them that perhaps would not have come to light otherwise, like Splitters contributions to this thread. Obviously it touched a nerve with many of us here.

It seems to me that more often then not, these threads start legitimate discussions. Some of the best threads on st have been started by trolls. Obviously they serve their place as well.

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:49pm PT

Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Mmm bacon!
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Splitter, I cannot add to what other people have said. But, wow, as Werner and others have put it. If I could help you I would, believe me. But I had to put Jennie into hospital today.

But you show us what strength is really about. I admire you, big time. Your post has helped me realize, there is light at the end of the tunnel. My hat is off to you sir.

And I tip my cap to other Supertopians who have or are experiencing troubles, griefs and lows. It makes me feel very humble.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
I am bumping this thread, not for the OP's original purpose (which sucks, if I may be judgmental), but some of the stories and posts are heart warming, enlightening and have given me strength.

Actually, the OP jerk had an axe to grind, but in fact, the stories and posts that have come out on this thread have, at least to me, done a good service. I would suppose that the OP did not expect that. And I do not care. This thread shows that the SuperTopo forum is not just about climbing, but life.

As a climber since 1969, never reaching the heights I wanted to, but trying...

The Taco Stand is the best IMO. I let my feelings and emotions out here. I wish I could post more climbing topics and TRs, but for the time being I cannot. But the genuine folks on the forum give me comfort.

Thanks all.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
PS - thank you sir. truth is, i am 90%+ whine, bleep & moan. i have to admit that i was not someone that anyone would want to be around for any length of time. in fact, i hatched a plan & did my very best (or worst) to alienate my mother, brother & sister, the ones closest to me. i said some pretty rotten things. b'cuz, at one point i was determined to end it. i gave it a pretty darn good shot (ending it) but it backfired.

i didn't want to hurt them, so i figured i could somehow make it less painful for them if i could get them to hate me, disown me, be glad that it was over for me. well, it really didn't work so well, i just couldn't completely burn that bridge. our family has been thru so much together, we have that bond. i mean, we can't stand to be around each other at times, but when the going gets the ruff'est, which it has so many times, we're there for each other. we have suffered so much together. but, i just didn't want them to suffer/hurt because of me, so i was instrumental in instituting that distance, but we are remain close spiritually/lift each other up in prayer, etc (church speak, lol) which is most important, imo.

i was going thru something straight from hell. but in the process, some things were brought to the surface, some very bitter and selfish things that were in my heart. i was 'sifted', as they say. as i look back, at my life, people i let down, situations where i was called and could have made a difference, but turned my head and went another way. the self centered direction i chose instead, there probably wasn't any other way (but a trial by fire, lol). i have heard that the apostles were just mere men. if that is the case, then i am truly, the mere'st of men.

Patrick, you have stuck with Jennie through thick and thin, i don't think anyone could ask for, or expect anything more of anyone. please hold your head high. i am hoping and praying for a miracle in your and Jennie's life, and i know i am not alone in doing so here on ST. i will be honest with you, i am not exactly sure what 'tender mercies', are, but i do know that they exist. i am hoping and praying that they are showered down upon Jennie and you. my heart is with you, you are a courageous man and she must be a wonderful woman. what i see is a very special bond, i would call it the truest of love. thank you for being there for another very precious human being, you are a living testimony of what true
love is all about.

Brokendownclimber - you have done what you could, no one could ask for anything more. sometimes, just being there is worth its weight in gold. that is something that can't be bought, when it comes from ones heart.

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
When I could, I did. It's not always possible for those of us who are "retired" to do so. Unfortunate that the need usually exceeds the resources available to help in a meaningful way.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
I was ready to give up on Jennie today. Let the pros take care of her, after the visit to the doctor.

But... Splitter, Brokendownclimber and others have shown me, not to give up. I have to try.

She is afraid of me going up at the quarry and bouldering and free soloing, says she does not want to see, yet she also need to get out, for her own peace of mind. So we go on the beach or Dun Laoghaire Pier.

I have no answers, no solutions. Just trying...

I want to be in Ben Nevis, ice climbing. I want to be in the Valley, finally do El Cap, I want to be in Chamonix.

But I am here, trying to sort things out.

Some of the posts on this thread help me a lot. Not as a climber (and I did lead 5.11 at one point and did a couple of walls, and minimal ice climbing and some mountains), but the posters on this thread (bar the OP and one or two others) give me hope.

Thanks people.


In my opinion, this is what makes Supertopo a great forum. We talk about life, not just climbing. Climbing may be a common 'thread', but our life experiences come into play

I am not knocking other forums... Mountain Project, RC, UK Climbing, Irish Climbing, and others, but the ST forum is alive, with life. Never boring, that is for sure.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 26, 2013 - 09:36am PT
I don't know why I ever posted on this thread, but it's to late to go back. But, I feel as though I have taken a step in some direction. You take that first step, stop abruptly, and it feels like your in the middle of nowhere, and its to late to go back. I mean, back doesn't exist in this thing, this game called life, eh?

And I just wanted to say that the most precious commodity I have, is called faith. In my opinion, it is priceless. Why? Because with faith, you are NEVER hopeless. It may seem like you get pretty damn close to hopelessness at times, but it's a lie, that is one word or thing (whatever ya want to call it) that doesn't exist in an X'tians life, and shouldn't exist in anyone's life, imo. I woke up this morning with this strong compulsion that I should level with ya, and that I had left that out.

Like I said, I'm not sure why I even posted on this thread, my life is not some shining example of what you will be blessed with, or whatever...on the contrary. I don't have any pictures to post of the life long wife that God blessed me with, and the kid[s] that just graduated from med school, or Bazerkley, or wherever. Or the two story log cabin with a view of the White Mts in one direction and Mt, Tom in the other, and, blah, blah, blah.

But, I said i lost EVERYTHING. Not true. I didn't lose my faith, and, therefor I haven't lost hope. It can feel pretty miniscule/shakey at times...but we don't live by feelings. I don't mean to rub this in your face, but, I woke up this morning and I felt like I had left that out, should share that with ya, fwiw!

And my hope is that things are going to get better, not worse, for everyone (including myself) that has either posted on this thread, or this thread is in someway or other about.


edit: one other thing that i left out. i said that i did everything i could to burn that bridge between myself & my mother, sister & brother. that wud generally be a hard thing to do in any true 'family' situation, particularly between mother & son. but, like i said, i gave it a damn good shot, and managed to distance them from me, BUT, there is an even stronger bond than 'family' (which should be analagous to family) and that is love.

What am I getting at? Well, in my opinion, it (life) is all about, faith, hope and love. And, btw, the "the greatest of these is love". ...something i found out the hard way! i will always love my family, although i haven't seen some of them in years. and i can only hope that they will always love me.

"And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

i also hope that no one gives up. i can certainly understand giving up. i mean, i have already posted (on the movie director who jumped off the bridge thread) about how the docs said that me feet would 1st go numb and then my legs would become paralyzed. well my feet did exactly that. so i had, imo, to act fast. i said i had considered the coronado bridge, etc.! well, memories of myself coming too on my bedroom floor doing the 'funky chicken' with a noose around my neck (the eyebolt pulled that i had set in a beam) is not EXACTLY a strong testimony of FAITH/HOPE, eh? well, one other thing, were instructed to look forward, not back. hope is a thing of the future.

i said that if the apostles (whom x'tians are supposed to look at as examples of faith, etc) were 'mere men', then i am the 'mear'est of men'! believe me when i say3, i have good reason to believe so!!

ANYWAY, like i said, or at least hoped to imply, in my first post here, was that this is not about me (my lame situation) it was about how you can't always "prepare" for certain situations, and that having friends that care about you is "a very good thing!!!

Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Sheesh... a lot of good posts on this thread! Lots of people in tough situations that I'll be thinking about and praying for. Glad ST can provide some community because, as has been said, we are a social race, dependent upon community.

However, aside from sad, unforseen sh*t happening (which I know HAPPENS), no one has dealt with the OP's original thought that there are people out there who refuse to grow up because it's easier to depend on someone else than it is to do the hard work of life for yourself. I know because I used to be one of them. (Hell yeah, I'd rather climb than work!) I was living with an entitlement mentality that said that everyone else owes ME (and you're an a-hole if you don't agree)!

Surely there are people out there like I used to be. Or is EVERYONE a victim?

No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:34am PT

Those that appear to CHOOSE the lifestyle of a "Climbing bum" are most likely slightly off in the MENTAL area...

Not totally NON FUNCTIONAL in society...

But CLOSE!!!...

I don't think there are that many that really CHOOSE to be a BUM...

Speculation on my part...

But from observing through the many years...

pretty sure I am about right...


Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Yeah, I can agree with that... slightly off.

Uh-oh locker... you just opened up another whole can-o-werms.


Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:47am PT

I have the feeling I'll be fine...


Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 08:42am PT
No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.

No offence pbernard02, but I think the point that a lot of people are trying to make... is that sh#t happens.

You could be driving down the road and a semi smacks into you (as happened to a friend in Belfast recently).

Actually they call them articulated lorries over here.

Several years ago, one of my nephews fell asleep in his semi and smashed into another semi up near Redding on Highway 5. He was the only one hurt but the CHP and firemen took almost two hours to cut him out of his rig. He lost some toes and was in rehab for a long time.

He did not mean or foresee that he would crash his truck.

Sh#t happens. And when it does, society, us, should be supportive.

So it is not such a simple matter of "social responsibility" as you put it/ask Bernard.

But I will agree, that there is a "victim" culture, especially in the US it seems. Some people do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

I have always, always, held my hands up if I messed up, mea culpa. I have never sought to blame somebody or make excuses for my f*ckups. (My late mother, late brother Mac, brother Casey, and uncles, taught me that. Especially Mom and Mac, "take responsibility for your actions", good or bad.)

And on the flip side, it is nice to be recognized for doing a good job.

To iterate, I agree, there is somewhat of a 'culture' out there to try and avoid responsibility for one's actions. To point the finger elsewhere.

But when sh#t happens, people do need help. We are a social species, a pack animal, IMO that is why we have survived as a species.
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