Begging on Supertopos

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Theoriginalone

climber
confusion
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 16, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Jeez people about one quarter of these threads are people begging because of some unplanned event that has left them destitute. I just got to wonder what was your game plan, most have had no regular employment....to busy playing and no insurance.

How about getting a job and paying your own way. It's called being an adult. Hard times can come to anyone but most of these were predictable what exactly did you think was going to happen?
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:19pm PT



its not about being superior


its about caring
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
to borrow a phrase from Tami,,,,FUH-Q...;-) Its called shyt happens. And can happen to anyone, you included.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Fishfinder and Ron A are right.

So you had nothing better to do than create an anonymous avatar to start another thread to whine about the fact that people other than you are generous and caring. What a weasel. Delete this useless thread.

I have not made any whack a mole posts in months but you troll may just about warrant a double barrel dose of bad mouth.

"Predictable" WTF? "Get a Job" WTF?
What happened to me and what happened to Big Mike were not predictable. They were utter sucker punches to our lives. We have jobs but it is really hard to work a job with a broken back. I have been able to work my business again since my surgery and Big Mike will too. Now his job, and it is damn serious work, is to heal and recover. What's your problem?


Oh and Blitzo's situation, I am sure you believe he should have just predicted it.

canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
Are you kidding? Many of the ST folks apparently didn't get a job with normal health insurance, much less have any personal savings. It is fairly unseemly to be adults dependent upon charity but that's the dirt bag way.

Begging is acceptable. Look at the sailboat guy that just drowned during a yacht race in San Diego. He was married with a kid and one on way. He wasn't even dead for 24 hours and his buddies started a website for donations for his "memorial" and the kid's college educations. Now mind you, this guy was crewing on a friend's yacht Uncontrollable Urge, but he owned his own yacht too, the Uproarious. Explain to me why a middle aged adult man who has enough money to belong to the local yacht club, be an active racer, and owns his own friggin yacht, wouldn't have had life insurance once he got married and started pumping out kids? Begging is Plan B now.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
I think you may be misunderstanding the intent. These acts of community kindness are not merely random. They are in fact a concerted effort to change our culture into one of nanny state entitlement, funded and promoted by that George Soros of climbing web sites, Chris MacNamarra.

Climbers have always been somewhat on the leading edge of social change so if such blatent a communist agenda can be enacted here, it is reasoned that the rest of America will follow suite with hardly a whimper.

I understand your concern and sympathize ( limp wristed cry baby liberal that I am) so in further expression of my guilt in causing you anguish and consternation I would like to direct you to the following web site:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ari


where you will find other like minded individuals with whom you can wring your hands and gnash your teeth with. Good luck and if ever you stub your toe don't hesitate to come scurrying back begging for help, much as Ayn Rand found herself doing.
this just in

climber
north fork
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
It's called being an adult? Like starting a troll cause you're to scared to speak these words under your real avatar. You offer so much to this forum.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
people make choices, some people do things that are extraordinary that don't have a financial reward...

some people will put a coin in a cup of someone who is in need,

and some people will look away and walk on by.

no need to be judgmental or sanctimonious about other's choices or the lot they drew in life to justify your own choices.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Many of the ST folks apparently didn't get a job with normal health insurance

Many of us here have chosen to not work in a cubicle (terrible, I know) and are self employed or work as subcontractors.

That said, I compel you to find one thread where someone is soliciting funds for themselves. All of the fundraiser threads were started by others who want to help.

If you can't understand what it's like to feel sympathy or empathy and want to help, then you're a f*#king lost cause.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Mind you, none of the injured is begging for money. We (the community) started the fundraisers for them.

Big difference!

Edit: Looks like you beat me to it Brandon.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
We all could use a little help sometimes. No point in being a dick about it.
weezy

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
trolling...it's not just for 13 yo gamers.


ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
I think many of us who take/took climbing seriously recognize that there are free spirits out there who have enriched our lives and improved the climbing community and might need a little help down the line.

I'm a frumpy attorney with insurance and all that but I get how some folks might need some assistance.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
If you guys didn't post to this troll then it would just fall off the front page into oblivion faster than a turd off a portaledge.

Let this mud falcon of a thread just fly away.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
In fact The Origin Alone one may need help.
Perhaps we could have a fundraiser to find them a heart.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
I didnt choose to be born in a nation with a less than third world healthcare system. But I'm damn-well willing to do the governments job even if it isn't. It's called being morally superior to your own leaders.

yay lets get political!

moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 16, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
No more fundraisers in 2014. You will HAVE to be insured...
mcolombo

Trad climber
Heidelberg, Germany
Mar 16, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
Are you kidding? Many of the ST folks apparently didn't get a job with normal health insurance, much less have any personal savings. It is fairly unseemly to be adults dependent upon charity but that's the dirt bag way.

Begging is acceptable. Look at the sailboat guy that just drowned during a yacht race in San Diego. He was married with a kid and one on way. He wasn't even dead for 24 hours and his buddies started a website for donations for his "memorial" and the kid's college educations. Now mind you, this guy was crewing on a friend's yacht Uncontrollable Urge, but he owned his own yacht too, the Uproarious. Explain to me why a middle aged adult man who has enough money to belong to the local yacht club, be an active racer, and owns his own friggin yacht, wouldn't have had life insurance once he got married and started pumping out kids? Begging is Plan B now.

I don´t see how a few friends wanting to help out the family of a lost buddy equals begging, it is an awesome gesture and when the larger sailing or climbing community passs around the pot it can help a lot. Even if he had insurance money may still be short.

No matter who you are you never know when you may end up needing help, or mabye be in a position to give it, maybe both at some time or another. Helping out for others is not a bad thing.

I don´t know Mike from UU or his situation, I have a few friends who do. Having a boat and racing it does not mean you have tons of money- I was racing my own small yacht in San Diego and living off slightly more then minimum wage. Lots of "yachts" cost less than a lot of people heres racks.
I don´t think Silvergate is too expensive of a club.

Ok back to lurking and Grüß aus Deutschland
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 16, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
Don't judge the old ones harshly and teach the young ones well.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 16, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
begging on supertopo is soooo lame.

makes for a good laugh!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
browniephoto

climber
bc
Mar 16, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
You better be wearing green OrangeAloner or else the leperchauns are gonna steal your socks. Then you will have no socks, and no soul.

You sock.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
Once again, we have identified another character who thinks that money is God's report card. Carry on and is there anyone who wants to corroborate this fantasy from the last millennium?
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Word up Heidelberg!

Get over to the Reisenstein!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
Anyone got some spare change? hard man fe dead.


philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#294533
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
To counteract this negative energy, I for one find it inspiring that there is such a caring community on this forum that people from all walks of life are united by climbing and willing to support others in a time of need, even if they may have never met.

Sure some people are architects of their own destruction but accidents happen too.

Like my mother used to tell me, "If you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all"
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
Picking on the less fortunate...class act..!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
Thank god everyone on here isn't like you dude. The support that I have received both moral and financial has directly contributed to the speed if my healing. When this idea first came up, I said no because I didn't want it to end up like the largo fund with everyone wondering about where the money went. Do you have any idea how costly it is for a small contractor to get health insurance?? Truth is it wouldn't even cover half the stuff this fund is going to help subsidize.

I have promised to make this thing transparent and will be reporting back on what every cent is spent on so people can know how they helped me. I am also re paying people how I can, which is with prints that I have spent much time and money producing, and have already contributed freely to this community without any expectation of payment.

Others stoke is my reward.

I truly hope nothing like this ever befalls you sir, because if it does, only then when your insurance runs out or refuses to pay up will you understand the position I am currently in.

As Fes would say, I bid you good day sir.
mcolombo

Trad climber
Heidelberg, Germany
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
Wish you the best Mike, my late second wife was a contractor who had to drop her insurance when work was slow. If she had had insurance she would be still alive. We were only married 4 weeks, I was making plans for her to move here to Germany. Here we could have gotten her covered.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 16, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
One and done for the UNoriginalone...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 16, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Theoriginalone,

Compassion should be for everyone, I'm sorry you've missed out so far.
Perhaps you can join in by randomly helping some one in need.
It will make you a better human being and there's nothing wrong with that.


LilaBiene

Trad climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
It wasn't so long ago that I had to depend 100% on my husband and family for everything, for several years. I've never felt so helpless, humiliated, embarrassed, hopeless and frightened. What I needed was love and understanding and shelter, until I could figure out what was wrong, rehabilitate myself and get back on my feet.

I hate to see Big Mike (or anyone else, for that matter) being put in the position of feeling the need to defend receiving the love and generosity of friends.

It's too bad the poster of this thread felt the need to kick some folks when they were already down.
John M

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Best laid plans of mice and men.



This thread needs a good laugh. Cross country ski carnage.


Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 16, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
I had a friend who traveled around the world, from UK to Australia to US, with all his things in a black diamond haulbag that was his luggage. I think he lived an entire year on less than 10k and most of it was transporation costs. He always found people who let him stay in their homes and fed him. He explained to me that his job was to entertain them and tell them stories about his travels. He took it seriously. A good deal for everyone since his hosts thought he was a fun guest.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 16, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
And learn how to use "to" vs "too" you uncompassionate, uneducated moron!
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Mar 16, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
Actually my husband and I planned pretty well, but when he died the perfect storm occured in every other area of my life too. Pretty crazy what can happen in a "Life Perfect Storm."

I'm with Fishfinder. It's about caring, not about pride cause you have not experienced extreme hardship. Despite all your best planning, yo, it could happen to you. We live on a tough, imperfect planet. Anything can happen. We need to thank God or whoever you deem your higher being that you are OK today.

One more thing I've learned in my life....don't judge. It's hard not too sometimes, but you have not walked in their shoes. Peace and Joy, lynne
jstan

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
In this age of marathons with 10000 contestants I have to wonder. Do bacteria hold races? John M's carnage post may be telling us something.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 16, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
There is a reason Humans are social animals.

It is because the race would not have survived without it.

In our human lives we each depend in so many ways on other people. As others depend on us.

It is these complicated relationships that make our lives possible. When one grows up one realizes it is also what makes it worth living.

It should be celebrated as our greatest strength.. because it is.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
If you don't have something nice to say....


What you might not realize is that this is a group of friends and a community, and communities do that.

If you guys didn't post to this troll then it would just fall off the front page into oblivion faster than a turd off a portaledge.

Let this mud falcon of a thread just fly away.


There's nothing embarassing about it, unless you are the OP. Let this thread stay at the top, so that whoever has the silly notion that Clark knew cancer was coming, or Mike started his own thread, can realize the errors in their judgements.

Remember, it's up to God to judge not us. Unless he/she isn't real, then we should just not be dick heads.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
My climbing partners are my BEST Friends.
You would never be a climbing partner of mine Originalalone.

If you are one of my climbing partners, give me your real name
so I can take you OFF my climbing partner list.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Ed's got it best.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Ed's got it best.

He always does... I keep an eye on him, like a canary in a coal mine.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
One and done for the UNoriginalone

No, he's just sitting back enjoying his success in everyone getting their panties in a wad.

STFUAGC PEOPLE! ;-)
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Mar 16, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
GDavis, I thought you were climbing...............
10b4me

Boulder climber
takin' the scenic route to Montana
Mar 16, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
a number of these people that the OP refers to as not having a job, actually do have a job. it's just not the kind of job the OP finds respectable(imo)
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 16, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#294571
fosburg

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
"We are here to help each other through this, whatever it is." Kurt Vonnegut
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 16, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
Breaking my silence again...

This is truly a community of friends. Many of these who I've tried to help, even though I didn't know them, were simply friends I hadn't met yet.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
You guys rock. I love this place!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
Troll is successful troll.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
I am thinking about starting a fundraiser for Theoriginalone. Something got stuck up his/her arse. Removal will be costly.
Credit: Snowmassguy
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Charity is full of inconsistencies.

Last week there were some firefighters raising money in the middle of an intersection in my town. You've probably seen it - they collect money in a boot.

What was it for? I don't know. They were playing the hero card to raise money. I'm sure their intentions were good.

Did their cause deserve money from others? Probably, although they didn't think it important to explain what it was. "Hey, we're firefighters, were the good guys!"

One of them walked right up to my car and shoved the stupid boot in the window. I said "no thanks." He looked at me like I was f*#king Ebenezer Scrooge.

I give to the ASCA, the Access Fund. I give to my church.

I have a brother with an incurable debilitating disease and over the years I've given thousands to charities related to that.

I don't give to the pink ribbons, even though I enjoyed the boobs thread.

I give to Goodwill, not so much out of charity but because I hate to throw away stuff that might be useful.

I was a Big Brother for over a decade.

I don't give to individuals simply out of charity, but I try to be generous to friends as so many have been to me.

I don't often tip the luggage guy at the airport, usually because I don't have anything smaller than a twenty.

Am I a generous person? I don't know. But neither does anybody else.

There's no no way to make that call based upon whether or not I give to your cause.






neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
hey there say, oh my.... :( mcolombo... very sad to hear this, as to the
death of our wife...

may god bless you with a special hug, when you have sadness over
her memories.. may the good times you had, be a good solid part
of your foundation, for life, as it goes on...

god bless...
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 16, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Other than the first post, this is an awesome thread, some great points raised. TFPU TheOriginalone
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Mar 16, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
"Other than the first post, this is an awesome thread, some great points raised."






good post, Jon!
It takes some good Manure to raise a healthy Crop.

:)
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Mar 16, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
It takes some good Manure to raise a healthy Crop.

HAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also LOVED the Special K on page 1. Ayn Rand. Guffaw.


And to quote Ron quoting me ?


FUH Q !!!
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Mar 16, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
Ayn Rand-ism is exactly what came to mind. Let the bastards die in the street. Each for themselves and one against all. I guess that is what explains the "alone" avatar.


On the other hand, I do wonder if our energy might not be better spent working for universal healthcare and such, rather than piecing back together each person's life one at a time.


Another story worth repeating. I was once sitting with my spiritual teacher, in a village some distance from Calcutta. One well-to-do American commented that there were so many beggars in India, and he knew most of them were cheaters. My Guru's response, "cheating or no, it is good for your hand to learn to let go".
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 16, 2013 - 10:57pm PT

Ed's good. Jstan's good.
Tami. . .

She da best!!!!!

hee hee hee. . .
Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
You guys are too easily trolled.
Stick a sock in it, just once, eh? Larry is Wise.
That trolling one isn't even real, PROBABLY(pseudonym?).huh?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 16, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Ayn Rand-ism is exactly what came to mind. Let the bastards die in the street. Each for themselves and one against all.

?????????

Must have read the collectivist Cliff notes.


A pretty good four part critique of objectivisim.

http://www.wordaroundthenet.com/2012/07/objectivism-examined.html


John M

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Even if it is a troll Captain.. so what.

"Other than the first post, this is an awesome thread, some great points raised."


Lemonaide out of lemons. Its an affirmation of the positive.

Plus the ayn rand post was classic.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
It's lemonade, actually.
I just don't see the point. Like your troll cares?
It's like beating off or some such. Pointless.
Like much of the infernoweb.

Have fun with yourselves, I guess.

edit: Nevermind, then. Congratulate yourselves. Maybe I'm missing your point. If you already know what's up, why affirm anything?
BTW,I'm not bummed. Bummed at how often I'm misunderstood, perhaps.
John M

climber
Mar 16, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Thanks for the spelling lesson.. haha..

The point is.. who cares about the troll. The troll didn't win anything and even if in his little troll mind he thinks he won, it still doesn't matter. Because he was trying to spread negativity, and wasn't able to. People were bummed by what he said, and then people started injecting the positive and the whole thread became a net positive. So troll or not.. its a net positive.

Forget the troll. He lives under a bridge. We jump off of bridges. We soar over bridges. We might run a rapids under a bridge, but we don't live under it.

If you stay bummed about people posting up positive things, well, then the troll does win.
MisterE

Social climber
Mar 17, 2013 - 12:04am PT
Begging on Supertopos

OK, I am in!

I beg all of you your forgiveness for all of my insensitive/inflammatory/misguided/untrue posts on this forum.

Pleeeeaaase forgive me?

*begging here*
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Mar 17, 2013 - 12:23am PT
What's the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US? Major unforeseen medical bills. You can have a job, a house and savings and still be wiped out in a flash. I know a guy from my high school who owned a $880 K house in the suburbs. Wound up with a strange disease they couldn't find a name for, and he was wiped out in about 3 weeks. Luckily his cousin found out that because he'd been in the Air Force, he had some vet benefits. Now he gets to be taken care of and fed with a straw at a VA hospital till he departs this vale of tears. Lucky him!
MisterE

Social climber
Mar 17, 2013 - 12:51am PT
WBraun

climber
Mar 17, 2013 - 01:03am PT
It's pretty obvious who the troll is .......
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 17, 2013 - 01:15am PT
Not the first time a prolific poster has done some anonymous trolling eh Werner?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 17, 2013 - 01:50am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#294602
weezy

climber
Mar 17, 2013 - 02:15am PT
good ole donny. winding up the tacoheads since 2001(?) *citation needed

what's impressive to me is the sheer dedication to trolling this forum since it's inception. that is some grade VII trolling. i mean, we're talking hooks duct-taped to a 20' tentpole kind of dedication to the craft.

this one's a bit on the obvious side, but hey this pond is shallow. as it's always been.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 17, 2013 - 02:16am PT
“There has to be evil so that good can prove its purity above it.”

Right Duck?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 17, 2013 - 03:43am PT
Hmmm biner troll?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 17, 2013 - 04:38am PT
I've just completed some research. Interestingly, canyoncat has 0 photos, and 0 trip reports. In fact, "her" only contribution to this forum are "her" 62 negative posts.......
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 17, 2013 - 05:53am PT
I will,put this point blank, using language that I don't think anyone has ever seen from me on this forum.
You are a scum sucking, bottom feeding, low life piece of f*#king trash, and a f*#king coward to boot. Grow some f*#king balls and post under your real name, and see how well this community effort works in a different direction.
You have the nerve to post this sh#t when my friend is Ina f*#king rehab center fighting to even be able to walk right now after an accident that could happen to anyone. And no matter how good your insurance is, I guran damn tee that you'd run out of it real f*#king quick if this had happened to you.
Troll or not, you ever want to step up and I will be glad to educate you. One thing you don't do, ever, is talk sh#t about one of my friends. I don't have many and I will stand up to anyone, anywhere, that is so much of a f*#king coward to kick them when their down.
I almost died on El Cap last year. My friends saved my life. If I knew who you were and it happened to you, I'd walk the f*#k away. And people here who know me and what I do in that regard know how deep of a statement that is.

Karma is a motherf*#ker, and you just put yourself Ina real good position to make it come due.

The one saving grace of this thread is the fact that every damn one of us is standing against you. So your little troll may have been successful in the short term, but in the long term it will bite you in the ass. Count on it. Shitass worthless punk. I'm a lot older and more passive the. I was in the old days, thank God, but I'd love to stomp a mud hole in your a*# and walk that motherf*#ker dry.
LeeBow

Trad climber
Victoria BC
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:12am PT
Sometimes this stuff is TOO funny. Who cares if this is a troll...

Check out page one again! There's this dude who can't understand why a middle aged guy with kids AND a race boat doesn't have any money.

Snicker.

Crap, my moorage was more than my rent, a new set of sails is like replacing your entire wall rack once a year, you have one hell of a lot more rope to buy AND the crew expects you to buy the beer after the race. Sure ate a lot of peanut butter and jam (hold the jam)

THEN came the kids. Now they get the peanut butter sandwiches.

EDIT: Absolutely NO disrespect to the dead or living meant...but I've STILL got coffee in my sinuses and all over my screen.

Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Mar 17, 2013 - 07:45am PT
If I knew who you were and it happened to you, I'd walk the f*#k away.

I'm guessing you wouldn't, because it would be a far greater lesson in humility for the troll to show him the kindness of selflessness than to reflect his (or her?) own selfishness and it's next to impossible for someone with compassion to ignore another being in pain.

Good comments on this thread. We should thank the troll for the chance to air them. Good job!
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 17, 2013 - 08:41am PT
There is a reason Humans are social animals.

It is because the race would not have survived without it.

Climbski2, well put.


I was reading several articles recently...


Brain comparison suggests that Neanderthals lacked social skills

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17287827-brain-comparison-suggests-that-neanderthals-lacked-social-skills?lite

New insights into differences in brain organization between Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/280/1758/20130168.full


Neanderthals Lacked Social Skills

http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthals-lacked-social-skills-130312.htm

The original poster may have more than the 4% of the Neanderthal DNA that some scientists and researchers suggest most homo sapiens have.


That said/written...

Study casts doubt on human-Neanderthal interbreeding theory
Cambridge scientists claim DNA overlap between Neanderthals and modern humans is a remnant of a common ancestor

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/aug/14/study-doubt-human-neanderthal-interbreeding

Neanderthals ... They're Just Like Us?
Well, not exactly. But new discoveries have had a surprisingly humanizing effect.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/121012-neanderthals-science-paabo-dna-sex-breeding-humans/


There's more... but if the original poster thinks he/she is superior to most of Taco Standers, let the delusion stand. He/she is only fooling 'themself.'

And unlike some, the Neanderthal in me has not sussed out who the OP is. Have I missed something, besides being last in line when God was giving out brains?

Wait a minute, I am an atheist, so God never gave me a brain. Must be my Catholic upbringing.

Anyway, Happy Paddy's Day.

Some claim that St Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland (yet, there are plenty of human snakes here), but why won't the bloke give me the winning lottery numbers, if he is a saint? Typical Welshman, (and I have Welsh heritage in me).
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 17, 2013 - 09:34am PT
Lots of us work our asses off in jobs that have no health care. I know i have a full time job and a part time buisness and have zero health care and just barely staying on top of the bills. somehow this is all my fault because I go climbing once or twice a week?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 17, 2013 - 10:11am PT
It is truly sad when the "iI got mine" Libertarian/Teahadist mentality blinds people to the value of human compassion.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Mar 17, 2013 - 11:10am PT
WOO Whoooo!
I sure LIKED Vegasclimbers response!
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Mar 17, 2013 - 11:29am PT
This topic and the response poses one of the great contradictions about
the US of A.

As an outsider looking in (Though I lived in Arizona a couple of years, and benefited from reciprocal healthcare) I am always struck by the compassion found on here for those who have fallen on hard times....usually the result of healthcare bills.

Despite these disasters (and the millions we don't see) you haven't had a healthcare system worth a damn, and as a country seem to be struggling to come to terms with what Obama is trying to introduce.

Our NHS is far from perfect, but over the years I have had four significant operations, a whole bundle of ongoing care for some chronic stuff. My son has had an Osteochondroma removed from his femur, and so on and on. None of it done at a direct cost to me.

The belief some in the US (and on here) have that, a healthcare system the equal of, or better than the NHS is impossible, is frankly staggering. The only thing I can see standing in its way is the vested interest of the private healthcare system.

It's frankly amazing that folks have to come here for financial support - it just shouldn't be like that. Sh#t, if we can do it.........

(but I applaud your tribal compassion)

Confused of the UK
steve shea

climber
Mar 17, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Philo, you are right on bud. Teabaggers, I got miners and nimbys. All duplicitous jerks. Islands unto themselves. I'm happy to help someone in need if I can. Makes me feel good and hopefully helps out. There but for the grace of ...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 17, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Blakey, It would be un American for anything to stand in the way of the insurance companys and their billions in profits.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 17, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Our system is so bad i even know EMT's on the ambulence that run IV's simply to get the extra $80.00
SicMic

climber
two miles from Eldorado
Mar 17, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Nalone- I'll totally agree, if you send me a dollar.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 17, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
What Blakey said. Money that should have been used on healthcare ends up in the pockets of insurance companies and lawyers. Observing Americans discussing their healthcare system is a jaw-dropping experience seen from a part of the world where the healthcare system functions quite well. The president does his best against the resistance of the money-makers and the lost-through-spinning-every-man-for-himself-ideological-sleepwalkers.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 17, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
In America we have to do everything are own way, no matter how f*#ked up it is. The worst thing is we never learn from are mistakes.
DanaB

climber
CT
Mar 17, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Very nice, Dave Kos.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Echo Steve Shea's comment to the dot.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
those who have fallen on hard times....usually the result of healthcare bills.

Solution:

1. Dont pay them. Change phone numbers and block the numbers of the collection agencies. Worst, worst case scenario is that you get sued. Just defend it pro se and many years later the millionaire doctor gets a judgment against you. Then declare bankruptcy, hopefully your primary residence and car stay with you.

2. If you're not going to die right away, get the hell out of the US and get medical care anywhere else.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
If you're not going to die right away, get the hell out of the US and get medical care anywhere else.
Probably not quite that easy
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
Well,, ill take the medical care available here any day. Say what you want, but there are a few walking/climbing miracles on this very forum thanks to the advancments of medical care here. Rebuilds on legs, backs and necks and the like.

Don Paul is a chavez/eye-dumuh-jab/kimjoguwee fan..Probably dug ohwsalmi bin -waden to.. pffff
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 17, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Big surprise, another internet ball bag decides to be a dick. Nothing to get upset over, I'm sure it's the only success they have going for them.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 18, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Ron Anderson, when are you going to stop shooting yourself in the foot, then shoving it in your mouth and then claim whatever welfare you can? ;-)

I wonder if you are the original OP.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Mar 18, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
The US "healthcare" INDUSTRY making a killing off of human misery. Very little care or health involved, lots of industry and highway robbery.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Mar 18, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
I concur entirely with Blakey. While it is commendable to offer our fellows assistance out of compassion, it is no replacement for a functioning health care system. Yes we should help and give, but we must also put some money and energy into advocacy of the changes needed to keep injured people out of the poorhouse.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Mar 18, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
I need more money for more bullets... Cash please. Thanks
okie

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
The OP is living in a bubble of some sort. Bubbles exist for mere fleeting moments of perfect symmetry. They are temporary, like Achilles. Even the mighty can fall. They plummet from great heights when they do.
This is a barbaric nation. The wild west mentality worked well enough when there was a frontier but we're living in a closed system now. European cultures have had many centuries to deal with this lack (except for the new world for their cast-off dirt bags) but we've only had about one century, a few generations to figure it all out, how to be civilized.
MisterE

Social climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
OMG!

Someone has posted twice on the forum!

http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?dcid=Ozk5ODc4KSkh

It must be important and warrant 100 responses!

You guys are actually catching up to the RC.com crowd - congratulations on your gullibility.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Larry called Troll a bunch of posts ago. It was ya'lls intertia.
Unstoppable. You should bottle that stuff.
John M

climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
congratulations on your gullibility



Oh piss... I'm tired of people worrying about responding to trolls. who gives a f*#k if the guy gets his jollies. To me it only matters if it harms people. This one harmed no one.

Today I was in Raley's market in Oakhurst and overheard some people talking about civil war in america. They were saying that the gun owners would be fighting those who were against gun ownership.. specifically those who voted for Obama. They believed civil war would happen within the next two years. The conversation was so strange that I interjected myself into it and told them I voted for Obama. Then I asked them if they were planning to shoot me. It kind of shocked them. These were five middle aged average looking adults. 3 men and 2 women.

Then I went to the hardware store and heard a similar conversation of someone warning another person.

What a strange experience.. America is going a bit nuts and people are worried here about trolls. good lord. We deserve to die.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:31am PT
Hey Ron, just yanking your chain.

MisterE, I like being gullible, about the only fun I have nowadays.

John M, I hope you are not serious (civil war in America), but then Palin just spouted a whole bunch of crap about Obama, and Rand Paul (what, did Ron Paul name his son after Ayn Rand?) apparently is the flavor of the month with Tea Party kooks.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:50am PT
John M...You could have asked them Tea Baggers how they were going to identify who owned a gun and who they intended to shoot then suggest they use the national gun registry...
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Mar 19, 2013 - 09:03am PT
The more old pharts you have the more help they gonna need. Give me about fifteen years.

Whoa, whoa. This turned into a gun thread.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:05am PT
Begging for guns on supertopo.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:08am PT
PLease please please!!! Will someone give me a day off to go climbing?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:10am PT
You could have asked them Tea Baggers how they were going to identify who owned a gun and who they intended to shoot

The ever-present flabolanche should be a good start.




DEY TOOK ERR GERNS!!! WHATS NEXT, CHEESEBURGERS?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 19, 2013 - 11:23am PT
There is much more pontificating than begging......guilty as charged.

Oh, and let's not forget the ranting.....just did some on the bringing dogs to COR thread.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 12:03am PT
I hate to dredge this thread up out of well-deserved obscurity but I thought it needed a period at the end of its sentence.



Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 23, 2013 - 09:28am PT
There is much more pontificating than begging

Jim, pontificating... isn't that what the Pope does?

pon·tif·i·cate (pn-tf-kt, -kt)
n.
The office or term of office of a pontiff.

heh heh, from an ex-altar boy now atheist. But I do like his call for more dialogue with different religions, and for the poor/poverty stricken.

My god is evolution. Though as I have mentioned before, when I was nine I wanted to be the first American pope, then at ten, the astronaut option looked better. Never did either. But I always try and keep reaching for the stars.

The stars of Hollywood, and Broadway.


EDIT

Okay, the lottery is not happening. I keep trying. I reckon over the years the money I have spent on Irish Lottery and EuroMillions tickets is about the amount my landlord wants in back rent by the second week of April.

So I am going to beg. I reckon my harmonica and guitar skills are as good as a lot of buskers. I just have decide where. Grafton Street? But lots of competition. Dun Laoghaire? Timbuktu?

So many journalists out of work, freelance is tough and lots of competition.


To be serious and avoid anymore of my thread drift, I still think the original poster that started this thread is wrong.

People who need help for unforeseen circumstances, deserve a helping hand. As for my own circumstances, even though Jen's medical condition has caused some financial strains, I am to blame for mismanaging our funds, not in a malicious way but a foolish way.

The only help I need is my own. But my hat is off to her doctors, the local public health nurse, the HSE and the carers that come in.

However, I am the primary architect of my problems. I just have to pull my thumb out and shorten the long finger.

BVB, Pat, Largo and others, if I ever do win the lottery (and let's not hold our breaths), I'll be there, seriously.


EDIT again

What's the saying, fill out the lottery form and... stick it in the drawer and save a couple more bucks. Though in most lotteries, the winning ticket is usually a quick pick. If Lady Luck likes you, well...
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 23, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Busking is not begging....


I used to love going to washington Square Park on a Saturday afternoon and enjoying the various Buskers. There were comedians, groups of gymnasts, martial artists, all sorts of talented people giving performances. It takes skill to drum up that audience, keep the gathering ones entertained until there are enough to begin the main show, get the money collected while keeping the people entertained so as not to leave before the bucket gets to them.

It is a service. An alternative way of producing income. But it is not begging.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 23, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
happiegrrrl, I agree, busking is not begging, I just used that term for better lack of words. My bad.

Many buskers do provide entertainment and are deserving folks.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 23, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Tuba Skinny , the ultimate rag band buskers

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 23, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
One of the easy ways to spot a troll or someone using a second username is to click on their name next to the post and see how many posts or TR comments or photos added.

This is the OP's first post.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 23, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
I'm confused. What would this fall under; dood claims he once could do multiple laps on a boulder problem that todays top boulderer's can't do. Dood bet's that he (now an ol' fArt) could still do at least one lap, off the couch, some 20+ years later. Challenges people to put up any amount of money that he can't do it, and he will match it saying he can. Practically no offers, but many disparaging remarks regarding his sobriety, trolling, big fat homo spraylord'ness, etc!

So, is he a:

1). troller
2). begger
3). loony
4). spraylord
5). loosing touch with reality, aka too much time on SuperTopo
6). needs meds
7). needs to cut back on meds
8). needs to get out more
9). bAdAzz ol'fArt
10).bAdAcid casuality from bitd
11) disturbed
12. crazy hippy jesus freak
13. someone nobody takes seriously/best ignore him
14. having a mid/late term life crisis
15. f'n nobody, so who gives a sh#t
16). (fill in the blank).
17).any or all of the above

Cap - "you KNOW what kinda of folk you are right?" -- AMEN! i cud give a flyin fuk what others think of me. but it does annoy me a tad that some wud think that i am spraying or trolling. wudevah..

but hey, it supremely baffles me that nobody wud wanna make some (or a lot) of easy cash. that DOES disturb me. what's gone wrong with Amurika?

anyway, i might try donating my winnings (should i send) to the doods who have run upon bad luck/hardtimes, or whatever. i was planning on doing that anyway (but not spraying about it before hand). i was initially gonna just make one simple post. i thought everyone would be game. but, its gotten like pulling teeth on a friggin' mule. maybe i shud just give up (prollie save myself a lot of money). ;)
Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 23, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
uh, yeah. That. I figure it don't matter, anyway. You KNOW what kinda folk you are, right?
That's it, then.
I'd be keen to sic a Billy Goat Gruff on trolls, though.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 23, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
"Oh and Blitzo's situation, I am sure you believe he should have just predicted it."...

Correct!!!...

How the fuk could he have known he would get cancer???...



Whomever the OP TROLL is, is just being a dickhead, to be a dickhead...

His or her day WILL come when some form of HELP will be needed (Not talking insurance)...

We ALL do if we don't just instantly POP...





splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 24, 2013 - 12:16am PT
^ what Locker said!!
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 24, 2013 - 01:43am PT
Locker - His or her day WILL come when some form of HELP be needed. (not talking insurance)
I must admit, I WAS what the OP was characterizing in his original post (OP). Not that I set out to be such, but it just can drag on. I worked fairly steadily, but most jobs were not much over minimum wage (ski area, etc) I did eventually get my journeyman's card in the carpenters union, but the union fell apart during the late 70's secondary to piece work, etc, and union jobs hiring nonunion peeps, corruption, etc! Plus, it wasn't steady work anyway, it only takes so long to build something, and it is to tempting to then take some time off and draw unemployment and go climbing, or whatever.

By the time I was 40, I had over 220 lower and upper division college units combined (over a period of 20 years) without a degree. I just kept changing my mind and dropping out. I had excellent grades, just couldn't make up my mind what I wanted to be when I grew up, lol. I mean, it only takes around 120-130 units to get a BS degree and I had almost twice that!

So, I find myself at 42 years old going nowhere, and all those units (220+) don't amount to anything on a resume. In fact, it just spells out quitter. It got to the point where they (potential employers/applied for a few really stable and well paying jobs that wanted a lot of info like IBM, etc) would start asking me, "How long was your longest relationship.?" (lol) because my longest job on my app was maybe 6 months, then I would either get laid off (seasonal job, ski resort, etc) or finish some construction job with nothing lined up. So yea, I would go climbing, surfing or whatever and draw unemployment insurance. And it all looked very shabby on paper.

So, at 42 I decided to pursue a degree in either PT or OT. Both require an MS degree + 6 month internships, national exam, & licensing, etc) Long story short, I return to school, get real serious about getting out of my rut (get really focused) and pulled it off (OTR degree).

Everything was going really well for about 8-9 years. Bought a new car/truck and a brand new house in a gated community with ocean views of the Coronado Islands and downtown San Diego (sister & brother also bought and still live there).

I worked full time (last job i was making 95K+ bonuses a year) had money coming out of my ears (to what i had prior) then I started to get deathly ill, right out of the blue. Kaiser eventually tells me, after having all these specialized tests, etc, EMG's, Nerve Conduction Studies, MRI's, CT scans and blood work, etc, that I have a terminal illness, a peripheral nerve disease/poly-neuropathy = bad news.

Except, 6 years later I was still alive but still sick as hell and wishing that I had died 5.9 years earlier, talk about brutal. I lost my house, all my savings (250K+) and eventually went bankrupt after running out of money (my meds and Kaiser premium was over $1,500 a month alone). Plus rent ($1,250), & food and other expences. It was costing me over 4K month/50K+ a year, so it didn't take long for all my savings to go with nothing coming in.

Plus, I started giving all this stuff away early on. I didn't expect to be around for long, and I was too sick to utilize it anyway. I gave a good friend from bitd/Mammoth, a pair of brand new, top of the line, Rossi Bandits (skis) and Solomon bindings, and a brand new pair of Nordica Grand Pre boots (top of the line racing boot). I had paid over $1,200 - 1,500 (forget) for the package.

And I gave away other stuff, collectibles, furniture etc to family, nephews and nieces. I gave one nephew, who could play a guitar a lot better than me, my Les Paul Classic and a couple Marshall amps. All this stuff i had worked long and hard for that I no longer needed or was to sick to use.

I had health insurance, Kaiser, but they kept upping my premium, from around $200 a month to over $700 and like I said, I had to pay for portion of my meds. Fortunately, Kaiser became to expensive, so I left it and into to a small family clinic. I told my doctor about the terminal illness (plus she had all the Kaiser paperwork). She use to question me about various aspects of it (illness) each time I saw here. It use to annoy the heck out of me. It was obvious that she wasn't 100% convinced, but I could tell I was on my way out.

So, one day after I had been with her for bout 2 years I get this phone call (actually a message on my machine) to stop taking this one medication (Tricor). She said that I was allergic to it, it was severely toxic to my system and was killing me. I stopped taking it and basically recovered within a week or two. She said that it did a lot of damage to my system (she didn't elaborate, and I don't really want to know).

I had lost all my hair the first year by the time I was 53, pulled it out in big patches, and aged consideraly. And both of my feet went completely numb (my doctor told me that my feet would go numb first then my legs would go/become paralyzed). Actually, I went totally paralyzed 4 times, but came out of it. My feet still haven't fully recovered, pretty sure there is nerve damage. They cause me a lot of pain, at times, besides being numb. Stuff like that. Evidently, according to my doc, a lot of internal damage also. I mean, I was taking that medication for nearly 10 years. If I had stayed with Kaiser, I would have been dead by now.

I think what hurt the worse, is my relationships. I lost what friends I had. For instance, the dood I gave the ski equipment (and other stuff) to just totally x'ed me out of his life. I mean, we had been friends for over 30 years, and then I give him all this stuff and tell him I was dying and the next day/week he won't even talk to me on the phone. Not like I would bother him, nothing changed at all except I was dying. I would call maybe once a week or every other week to see how he and his family were doing, and he would just say "Oh hello, can you hold for a minute I have someone else on the line?" But i would sit there for 10 or 15 minutes and he would either cut the connection or I would get tired of waiting and try calling him back and I would get a busy signal. I mean, major hint, eh? Within a couple weeks, he was no longer my friend. He probably thinks I'm dead by now. I think his wife had something to do with it. Thing is, i am the one who brought them together, brought them to church, and led him to Christ. I seriously doubt they would have married otherwise. But I can understand, he had a lot of other issues going on, his oldest son (20 at the time, was going through rehab for chemical and alcohol dependency, and there were other problems they were having, only so much someone can deal with at one time, eh?

And all my nephews and nieces dropped me like a hot potato. I was there "favorite uncle". I mean, I baby sat and changed their diapers when they were kids. We were a very close nit family all our lives. I paid their house and car payments many times when I was doing well. One of my nephews would have lost his home, a very nice one in Allied Gardens section of San Diego if it wasn't for me (paid for 3 months mortgage when he was sick). We (him, his wife and two kids & my mom brother & sisters) met at least once a month for dinner or movies or over at one of our houses and picnics and barbeque, etc! That stopped all together, I just wasn't invited, but was probably to sick anyway. But he (my nephew) didn't even call. My one sister, who I was close to all my life, hasn't talked to me in years (his mother). I use to visit her at least once a month when she would invite me over for dinner or we would go to a movie or walk or something.

She, called me one day a couple years into the illness, just after the third time I came out of the hospital after going into a coma. All she said was, you know (her son/my nephew) would really like your truck (I have a truck that I paid over 50K for, a f350 diesal 4x4 with only 18K miles on it). They new the docs told me that one of those times, perhaps the next, I wouldn't be leaving the hospital. I thought what the heck? I haven't even heard from him or her in years, and I get that message after almost croaking.

I have always been somewhat of a loner, but now I am a major recluse. I'm okay with that, like i aid, I lost EVERYTHING...! But I have the type of personality where I don't need anything, anybody. I probably would do just fine in solitary confinement. I mean, I have lived in this apartment since 2003 (when i took sick) not one person including close family, has crossed the front door threshold in 10 years. Total loner. I never use to be like that, I was always doing something, visiting someone, someone visiting me. The last ten years changed me.

So, the point I am trying to make is, it is good to have friends and loved ones. And it is very good to have friends like Blitzo, Big Mike and Clark Jacobs, etc, have. To have friends that reach out and help you, and start a thread for you, etc! Not "friends" that abandon you. Because, like Locker said, ya never know whats around the corner (or something to that effect). And you don't REALLY know what it's like unless you've been there.

And, often, you just can't "prepare" for some things that you don't have a clue could ever happen to you (my allergic reaction happens to only a fraction of 1%) and end up being so devastating and sudden (kind of blind sides you). That is when you find who is really your friend, or just your fair weather friends. That's when you think about, is it really worth it (living) is it really worth it? All the pain and torment, all the hassle. Believe me, I have thought a LOT about that one!

I just want to say, and I don't mean to get religious or anything, but the only friend I have in this whole wide world, is JC! I would have left this place, left it behind for good, a long time ago. So it is really refreshing to see these guys who support them with their friendship, etc!

I am really looking forward to getting on the road again. Photography is my hobby, and you need to be outdoors 24/7 to get the good lighting and shots. I worked semi-professionally for a while during the 80's, had a few adds and shots in Surfer and various other mags, but have done little in the past 10 years or so. I still have a large and medium format and love working in both color & B&W, but also recently got a dslr. I would like to meet Blitzo some day.

I was looking at LL's cool thread she has on packs. I have a number of excellent packs of various cubic inches. Arcturus (sp) Dana Design, Lowe, etc! Several are brand new. I have (or had when i was working full time) this thing of not being able to pass up a good deal. Like the Sport Chalet use to put everything in the store for 50% off every once in a while. But, some stuff I paid full price for.

Anyway, I was thinking of maybe selling some stuff here on ST, and donating 10% (maybe more) to our fellow down & out in (wherever). Otherwise I will most likely either sell it on eBay or Craigslist to someone. I would rather see them go to someone here. Maybe we could start a general type thread for selling stuff. I'm sure there are others like myself, who have at least a few climbing, backpacking and so forth items collecting dust in their garage or elsewhere that could be, relatively painlessly, parted with Perhaps 10% (or whatever) could go to a common pool, which could be divided up among those whom would benefit most from it.

We talk about some sort of climbers resources to fall back on and joke about an Ol'Timer's home (you may recall Warren Harding's Downward Bound & other's musings on such a place) well, something like this (or perhaps someone else has a better idea) could be a start.

Well, kinda a long winded and rambling post, not sure what i was really trying to relate/convey, perhaps someone will garner something from it. And, if I had it all to do over, I would have focused first on an education, and a survival plan for the long run,I can only speak for myself, though, because I had plenty of opportunity, and should have made use of it sooner.

Peace!

WB - Thanks, your very welcome. Kinda hard to share, open up about some things, but i felt it was apropos!
WBraun

climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 01:55am PT
WOW !!!!

Thanks for writing that splitter .....

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 02:29am PT
I second Von Braun's comment.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 24, 2013 - 02:56am PT
Triple wow!! Splitter, you seem like a good dude. Sorry to hear that everyone in your life treated you so badly. If there is one thing i've learned from this, it's the friends and family are the only thing in life that really matter. They are the ones who will be there when you need them.

If you ever find yourself in squamish and need a partner or just want to go for a beer, please feel free to contact me and i would be happy to meet up with you!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Thanks again Splitter!
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Ditto on the thanks for sharing it Splitter. On this quote:
"I started to get deathly ill, right out of the blue"

Did you ever figure that out, or get any feel for what might have been going on physically which started you feeling bad?
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:16am PT
splitter, just a quick thank you.

My family has never mentioned my sons suicide. Not once. No sorry for your loss cards, nada, zip.
Even though I am staunchly non-religious, I DO have something of a relationship with Christ, and that has probably kept me alive.

It happens all the time, not sure why, but I know I am totally uncomfortable with illness, etc., and have probably done the same, abandon someone in need. Can't really pin point anything, but I'm sure I've let people down who might have needed me.


happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:45am PT
Splitter - So sorry to know that people walked away and took from you in your direst time of need.

Thank you for that story - it certainly has a lot of messages and potential for learning lessons. Bets wishes to you today and going forward.
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Splitter,
That takes guts to tell your story. Good for you. I hope you ENJOY LIFE.
Photography is a great hobby/passion of mine too.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:55am PT
... high ratings for your comments, Splitter.

I suppose many of us skip or quickly scan over longer forum posts. But reflections so personal, plainspoken and guileless are not easy to pass over. Thank you.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
I almost didn't circle back to this thread again because I was so pissed after I read the OP the first time around, but for some strange reason I felt like I should...and I'm really glad I did.

Hey Splitter, consider posting again in your own separate thread -- what you have to say speaks to many more people than even I can begin to imagine. I'm sorry to hear that you are so isolated, but I completely understand. For several years, it was just me and the muppet (not knocking the hubby, but he stuck his head in the sand, I think, because it was too hard to deal with, and I'm okay with that). It was with GREAT trepidation that I stuck my toe in the water here, but WOW, what an AWESOME tribe this is when you let its members IN.

What you wrote took brute courage and a serious jump into the unknown. And, hey, you've got at least one more new member of the tribe who would be honored to call you "friend", if nothing else, but I suspect you've struck gold in the human connection department. From my own experiences, I believe with every fiber of my being that it's connection that we all need above everything else (even when it feels "safer" to rely on yourself and external forces). BooDawg will chuckle if he reads this, because he reminds me quite frequently (indirectly, of course) that I am DESERVING of connection...eh-hem. You are, too.

My husband has asked me many times why I wasn't angry with my friends or family for treating me the way they did when I was sick. I was angry plenty at various points in time, usually when it felt like things were completely outside of my control, but I always came back to center believing that they all had their own burdens to bear. I also didn't want the anger or the energy of the anger pinging around inside my body, if that makes any sense. I wanted it out because it didn't belong to me and wasn't mine. Gave it the boot. Not saying that's right or healthy or anything else -- it just was. It was freeing, in a sense.

I'm sort of a lone wolf, too, but wolves live well in packs. I suppose I'm a wolf that sticks with pack members that give me the freedom to leave when I need solitude. And in return I try my best to be there when I'm needed. But, I'm not perfect.

It's an incredible journey that you're on, Splitter, and sharing the stuff most choose to hide is an incredible gift that you've offered of yourself. I suspect that anyone you meet in the future that has read your post will meet you with his or her heart.

Echoing what Ed said several pages back, it just doesn't matter which path you followed to get where you are. Stop "should-ing" all over yourself. ") I was a corporate attorney in international telecom when I first really started going downhill fast. In the end, it didn't matter what my job was, that I had savings and retirement savings, a house, a car, health insurance, short-term and long-term disability insurance, etc. It took almost 10 years, getting fired from a job in international satellite and losing absolutely everything, including all of those benefits you're "supposed" to have as a safety net, before I figured out what was wrong. But you already know that story. I added this to back up YOUR story. There are things you just can't predict.

Chiefly among those things that you just can't predict is how people will respond to you when you open your heart. I hope that yours is now starting to feel full.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Mar 24, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
Very moving...you guys (and gals)...

Funny how a thread can turn...in this case a very moving way...

Susan
MisterE

Social climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
Splitter, I wish your sharing would be posted on another thread that wasn't a first-time troll.

Just saying, it's worthy, and this thread is not.

We followed similar paths with our carpentry, BTW.

Erik

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 24, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/charity
charity

1: benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity
2
a: generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering; also : aid given to those in need
b: an institution engaged in relief of the poor
c: public provision for the relief of the needy
3
a: a gift for public benevolent purposes
b: an institution (as a hospital) founded by such a gift
4: lenient judgment of others


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beg
beg

as an intransitive verb:

1: to ask for as a charity

as a transitive verb:

1: to ask for alms


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alms
alms

1: archaic : charity
2: something (as money or food) given freely to relieve the poor



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_(practice);
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
^^^ :D And are beggars really begging, or just asking for help?
John M

climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Hey Splitter,

I started to write a thanks for sharing 3 or 4 times, but kept deleting it because some of your story hit too close to home. I have shared bits and pieces of my story here on the forum, but its hard to say much because I haven't yet found out why I have gotten sick. I also lost my home and job and a business that I was just starting. Plus I also lost friends. I do have two staunch friends who stuck by me through the worst of it. Karl Bralich who posts here as Karl Baba is one of those friends. Thanks Karl, you da man.

It can be hard to share stories like that because sometimes you can get negative responses. One person on this forum made fun of me for losing my home. He said I was an idiot for not declaring bankruptcy, but at the time I fully believe that I would be able to turn things around and had no idea the poor health would go on for so long. So I know that it takes courage to express oneself on such a public forum.

I'm very grateful that you found out that it was a med that was causing the problem. What a relief that must have been, though you say it caused quite a bit of damage to you physically. That must really suck.


Thanks again..

John
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
the basic issue with providing charity by some institution seems to revolve around how much of the contribution given to charity actually gets to the people who need it...

while libertarians argue that the government is inefficient, absorbing a large fraction of the funds to support the activity, and that private institutions are more efficient, private institutions have problems with fraud (which is the reason that government overhead is so high, to manage the funds so that there is no fraud).

but whether or not the organization is public or private, the hesitancy seems to be the idea that the money given is not going to the people the giver intended...

another issue is whether or not the people receiving the charity are deserving, in the eyes of the giver... certainly there are many emotional issues regarding this... but once again, this is independent of whether or not the organization is public or private.



the itinerant life style of climbing leave many climbers "under resourced" for the various problems that may beset them, most often these are medical, but they can also be legal.

This is not a new problem, for instance, crews of ships often encounter misfortune in remote places, a shipping company might not pay and leave a shipmate stranded in a foreign land... or in the past, the shipmate may not return home due to some accident, and leave a family with no one to provide for it.

Various institutions grew up around finding the resources to provide for people who are in need, including both int the public and private sectors.

There was an article in the NYTimes yesterday (Saturday) about the Freelancers Union,
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/business/freelancers-union-tackles-concerns-of-independent-workers.html
http://www.freelancersunion.org/
which provides a benefit to workers who are hired on as "contractors" without benefits... first and foremost, they can use the bargaining power of the union to obtain health insurance, the major benefit they lack in the work situations.

This is another way of providing for the needy, though here it is the "working" needy, by organizing together and using the power of that organization in the form of the availability of labor.... it seems that this is just parity with those organizations that would use labor... obviously the two are a complementary pair which should balance each other (though this seems quite out of balance in the US at the moment).



The main point of this rambling post is a notion that has been floated from time to time on the STForum, that is, given that the public sector response to health care is something that is going to take a long time to sort itself out, shouldn't climbers band together to create a "Climbers' Benevolence Society" with the expressed purpose of raising funds to disperse to climbers in need.

There are many climbers who might want to help, and have the means to help, but do not want to directly contribute to an individual who is asking for, or for whom someone else has asked for help.

This is a private charity. The idea would be for it to seek contributions and then oversee the dispersement of those funds to those seeking help. There would be criteria to receive help, and some board to oversee the decisions, and the financing of the charity.

I have no idea what this would cost, I'm not the sort that has that knowledge, but there are many climbers who do...

How would such a thing work, etc... it would be interesting to discuss it here again...
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
AAC Ed?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
the AAC has a different mission statement, and is probably not legally set up to raise money for the purpose of charity...
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:25pm PT

I think that those of us that can, will.

Sharing is a basic human trait.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Yes it is, and that's probably why I'm so on edge. I'm sick of not being able to help! Or buy presents. I haven't been able to buy presents for those I care about in a very long time and THAT SUCKS!
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
I'd be willing to bet that your presence in their lives is far more important than anything money can buy. And I really mean that.

I have been there (and still am there to a certain extent with my private student loan holder threatening to sue me for the entire balance owed).

Here's one of my other favorite quotes, for what it's worth (I've been trying to find it for months):

"Nothing splendid has ever been achieved
except by those who dared to believe
that something inside of them
was superior to circumstance."

 John Barton
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 25, 2013 - 02:32am PT
LilaBiene - From my own experiences, I believe with every fiber of my being, that it's connection that we need above everything else...
Yes, I believe that is very true also.

And speaking of exactly that, WOW, I didn't expect what I posted to have this much impact, it is really moving. To be honest, I was initially hoping that it had drifted off the front page overnight, since I was having second thoughts about what I posted. But after reading all of your kind responses, and, how many of you have experienced similar things, I must say that I am glad that I did share with you. I have the urge, or desire to respond to each and every one of you. But, more than a few, have revealed things that take me beyond words, or at least, I don't have the proper words to respond with.

But maybe I could somehow share one more thing with you that may help express the way I feel in general. Actually, I typed this same story some 5-6 months ago, hesitated to post it, then lost it. I had been wanting to share it with ST/everyone, then it kind of lost its timeliness, but perhaps now would suffice.

When I was living in Belle Cote, Cape Breton and in kindergarten, one Spring morning while waiting for class to begin in our little one room schoolhouse, a group of us noticed these two young kids, brother and sister (my age 5/6). They were walking up towards the school, hand in hand.

Someone mentioned something I wasn't aware of, that their mother, whom they lived alone with (no father) had passed away the night before. One of the older girls (maybe 8/9) replied, "Poor kids, they don't even know that they don't have to come to school today." and she went and intercepted them with that information, and they turned around and began the long walk home.

I had figured that she did the right thing by sending them home. And I never really thought any differently about it until last summer, when I lost my own mother rather suddenly. And, although we were blessed to have her with us for many years, it didn't seem to make it any easier when she was suddenly gone. In fact, it hit me very hard.

The prior 12 or so hours kept running through my mind, and other segments of our life. Some thoughts were just too hard to bear at the moment, particularly sitting alone in my apartment. I needed someone, so I turned to the only place I new where other people had turned to in similar times, here/SuperTopo.

I didn't say anything about my mom, I was to sick with grief. I just read every thread I could, listened to music and occasionally posted. I must say that I also turned to faith, hope and prayer because I new my younger brother was also particularly hurting since he had taken her in and cared for her since our father had passed away a number of years ago. But I was really hurting also. I didn't sleep for at least 3-4 days! Those were very long days and nights, and I am very thankful for SuperTopo helping me get through them.

Sometime during that time, between moments of deep grief, prayer, and spending much time here, I recalled those two little kids, the brother & sister. And I realized that they hadn't gone to school that day because they had to go, it was because they wanted to go. They needed to be, had chosen to be with someone, rather than be home all alone.

Thanks for being here for me when I needed you most!

John/Splitter
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Mar 25, 2013 - 02:40am PT
Beautiful, hard, painful and powerful thoughts and experiences that Splitter, Lilabiene and others are sharing. Not easy to do, I and others here understand that very well. But ultimately, it can be helpful to reach out. We do need connection and camaraderie; these somehow are core needs beyond shelter and sustenance. In the best of time and the worst of times.

You all are appreciated all the more for having done so. At least in my humble eyes.

Peace and godspeed to you all.

Eric
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 25, 2013 - 03:07am PT
Wow guys!! Did this thread ever turn for the better!

Hossjulia- i am sorry to hear about your loss. There is really nothing more i could say other than things will get better. Good people get what they deserve in the long run.

Lilabene- thanks for re-iterating that tale. I'm glad you are feeling better and moving forward with your life.

John m- i am sorry to hear that you are sick. You can't pay any mind to the trolls on here. It's just like real life. Some people will always want to bring you down. Thank you for sharing, and know that most on here will be sympathetic if you are willing to share. I wish you the best in your continued struggles. Please feel free to pm me if you want to talk or if i can help in any way.

Splitter- wow dude! Once again you've blown me away. Please know that you will always have a friend up north and pm me any time you wish....


Ed- the nice thing about the taco funds is that the proceeds go directly to the person who needs it. Yes there is more potential for fraud this way, but if you are willing to put some research time in, i'm sure you can tell for yourself wether that person is really in need of such assistance.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Mar 25, 2013 - 09:02am PT
"Kindness is the language that the deaf can hear, and the blind can see."

Mark Twain



"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good thing,
therefore, that I can do or any kindness I can show to any fellow human
being let me do it now. Let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not
pass this way again."

Stephen Grellet, 1773-1855
French-born Quaker Minister
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Mar 25, 2013 - 11:55am PT
For as much as we complain about troll threads. Many times good things come out of them that perhaps would not have come to light otherwise, like Splitters contributions to this thread. Obviously it touched a nerve with many of us here.

Hope all you guys and gals going through tough times get through them soon and can continue enjoying the good things life has to offer.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Splitter, some day you shall reap the goodness that you have sown, hopefully
soon. And, contrary to my previous poor attempt at humor, I'd be honored
to have you as my neighbor, even if it meant having to buy some extra umbrellas. ;-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
For as much as we complain about troll threads. Many times good things come out of them that perhaps would not have come to light otherwise, like Splitters contributions to this thread. Obviously it touched a nerve with many of us here.

It seems to me that more often then not, these threads start legitimate discussions. Some of the best threads on st have been started by trolls. Obviously they serve their place as well.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:49pm PT


...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Mmm bacon!
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Splitter, I cannot add to what other people have said. But, wow, as Werner and others have put it. If I could help you I would, believe me. But I had to put Jennie into hospital today.

But you show us what strength is really about. I admire you, big time. Your post has helped me realize, there is light at the end of the tunnel. My hat is off to you sir.

And I tip my cap to other Supertopians who have or are experiencing troubles, griefs and lows. It makes me feel very humble.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
I am bumping this thread, not for the OP's original purpose (which sucks, if I may be judgmental), but some of the stories and posts are heart warming, enlightening and have given me strength.

Actually, the OP jerk had an axe to grind, but in fact, the stories and posts that have come out on this thread have, at least to me, done a good service. I would suppose that the OP did not expect that. And I do not care. This thread shows that the SuperTopo forum is not just about climbing, but life.

As a climber since 1969, never reaching the heights I wanted to, but trying...

The Taco Stand is the best IMO. I let my feelings and emotions out here. I wish I could post more climbing topics and TRs, but for the time being I cannot. But the genuine folks on the forum give me comfort.

Thanks all.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
PS - thank you sir. truth is, i am 90%+ whine, bleep & moan. i have to admit that i was not someone that anyone would want to be around for any length of time. in fact, i hatched a plan & did my very best (or worst) to alienate my mother, brother & sister, the ones closest to me. i said some pretty rotten things. b'cuz, at one point i was determined to end it. i gave it a pretty darn good shot (ending it) but it backfired.

i didn't want to hurt them, so i figured i could somehow make it less painful for them if i could get them to hate me, disown me, be glad that it was over for me. well, it really didn't work so well, i just couldn't completely burn that bridge. our family has been thru so much together, we have that bond. i mean, we can't stand to be around each other at times, but when the going gets the ruff'est, which it has so many times, we're there for each other. we have suffered so much together. but, i just didn't want them to suffer/hurt because of me, so i was instrumental in instituting that distance, but we are remain close spiritually/lift each other up in prayer, etc (church speak, lol) which is most important, imo.

i was going thru something straight from hell. but in the process, some things were brought to the surface, some very bitter and selfish things that were in my heart. i was 'sifted', as they say. as i look back, at my life, people i let down, situations where i was called and could have made a difference, but turned my head and went another way. the self centered direction i chose instead, there probably wasn't any other way (but a trial by fire, lol). i have heard that the apostles were just mere men. if that is the case, then i am truly, the mere'st of men.

Patrick, you have stuck with Jennie through thick and thin, i don't think anyone could ask for, or expect anything more of anyone. please hold your head high. i am hoping and praying for a miracle in your and Jennie's life, and i know i am not alone in doing so here on ST. i will be honest with you, i am not exactly sure what 'tender mercies', are, but i do know that they exist. i am hoping and praying that they are showered down upon Jennie and you. my heart is with you, you are a courageous man and she must be a wonderful woman. what i see is a very special bond, i would call it the truest of love. thank you for being there for another very precious human being, you are a living testimony of what true
love is all about.

Brokendownclimber - you have done what you could, no one could ask for anything more. sometimes, just being there is worth its weight in gold. that is something that can't be bought, when it comes from ones heart.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 25, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
When I could, I did. It's not always possible for those of us who are "retired" to do so. Unfortunate that the need usually exceeds the resources available to help in a meaningful way.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 25, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
I was ready to give up on Jennie today. Let the pros take care of her, after the visit to the doctor.

But... Splitter, Brokendownclimber and others have shown me, not to give up. I have to try.

She is afraid of me going up at the quarry and bouldering and free soloing, says she does not want to see, yet she also need to get out, for her own peace of mind. So we go on the beach or Dun Laoghaire Pier.

I have no answers, no solutions. Just trying...

I want to be in Ben Nevis, ice climbing. I want to be in the Valley, finally do El Cap, I want to be in Chamonix.

But I am here, trying to sort things out.

Some of the posts on this thread help me a lot. Not as a climber (and I did lead 5.11 at one point and did a couple of walls, and minimal ice climbing and some mountains), but the posters on this thread (bar the OP and one or two others) give me hope.

Thanks people.

EDIT

In my opinion, this is what makes Supertopo a great forum. We talk about life, not just climbing. Climbing may be a common 'thread', but our life experiences come into play

I am not knocking other forums... Mountain Project, RC, UK Climbing, Irish Climbing, and others, but the ST forum is alive, with life. Never boring, that is for sure.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Mar 26, 2013 - 09:36am PT
I don't know why I ever posted on this thread, but it's to late to go back. But, I feel as though I have taken a step in some direction. You take that first step, stop abruptly, and it feels like your in the middle of nowhere, and its to late to go back. I mean, back doesn't exist in this thing, this game called life, eh?

And I just wanted to say that the most precious commodity I have, is called faith. In my opinion, it is priceless. Why? Because with faith, you are NEVER hopeless. It may seem like you get pretty damn close to hopelessness at times, but it's a lie, that is one word or thing (whatever ya want to call it) that doesn't exist in an X'tians life, and shouldn't exist in anyone's life, imo. I woke up this morning with this strong compulsion that I should level with ya, and that I had left that out.

Like I said, I'm not sure why I even posted on this thread, my life is not some shining example of what you will be blessed with, or whatever...on the contrary. I don't have any pictures to post of the life long wife that God blessed me with, and the kid[s] that just graduated from med school, or Bazerkley, or wherever. Or the two story log cabin with a view of the White Mts in one direction and Mt, Tom in the other, and, blah, blah, blah.

But, I said i lost EVERYTHING. Not true. I didn't lose my faith, and, therefor I haven't lost hope. It can feel pretty miniscule/shakey at times...but we don't live by feelings. I don't mean to rub this in your face, but, I woke up this morning and I felt like I had left that out, should share that with ya, fwiw!

And my hope is that things are going to get better, not worse, for everyone (including myself) that has either posted on this thread, or this thread is in someway or other about.

Peace!

edit: one other thing that i left out. i said that i did everything i could to burn that bridge between myself & my mother, sister & brother. that wud generally be a hard thing to do in any true 'family' situation, particularly between mother & son. but, like i said, i gave it a damn good shot, and managed to distance them from me, BUT, there is an even stronger bond than 'family' (which should be analagous to family) and that is love.

What am I getting at? Well, in my opinion, it (life) is all about, faith, hope and love. And, btw, the "the greatest of these is love". ...something i found out the hard way! i will always love my family, although i haven't seen some of them in years. and i can only hope that they will always love me.

"And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

i also hope that no one gives up. i can certainly understand giving up. i mean, i have already posted (on the movie director who jumped off the bridge thread) about how the docs said that me feet would 1st go numb and then my legs would become paralyzed. well my feet did exactly that. so i had, imo, to act fast. i said i had considered the coronado bridge, etc.! well, memories of myself coming too on my bedroom floor doing the 'funky chicken' with a noose around my neck (the eyebolt pulled that i had set in a beam) is not EXACTLY a strong testimony of FAITH/HOPE, eh? well, one other thing, were instructed to look forward, not back. hope is a thing of the future.

i said that if the apostles (whom x'tians are supposed to look at as examples of faith, etc) were 'mere men', then i am the 'mear'est of men'! believe me when i say3, i have good reason to believe so!!

ANYWAY, like i said, or at least hoped to imply, in my first post here, was that this is not about me (my lame situation) it was about how you can't always "prepare" for certain situations, and that having friends that care about you is "a very good thing!!!
pbernard02

Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Sheesh... a lot of good posts on this thread! Lots of people in tough situations that I'll be thinking about and praying for. Glad ST can provide some community because, as has been said, we are a social race, dependent upon community.

However, aside from sad, unforseen sh*t happening (which I know HAPPENS), no one has dealt with the OP's original thought that there are people out there who refuse to grow up because it's easier to depend on someone else than it is to do the hard work of life for yourself. I know because I used to be one of them. (Hell yeah, I'd rather climb than work!) I was living with an entitlement mentality that said that everyone else owes ME (and you're an a-hole if you don't agree)!



Surely there are people out there like I used to be. Or is EVERYONE a victim?



No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:34am PT


Those that appear to CHOOSE the lifestyle of a "Climbing bum" are most likely slightly off in the MENTAL area...

Not totally NON FUNCTIONAL in society...

But CLOSE!!!...

I don't think there are that many that really CHOOSE to be a BUM...




Speculation on my part...

But from observing through the many years...

pretty sure I am about right...



pbernard02

Trad climber
Chester, CA
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Yeah, I can agree with that... slightly off.


Uh-oh locker... you just opened up another whole can-o-werms.






LOCKER SAID IT, NOT ME!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 26, 2013 - 11:47am PT


I have the feeling I'll be fine...

;-)





Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 08:42am PT
No insensitivity intended... just a serious question on social responsibility.

No offence pbernard02, but I think the point that a lot of people are trying to make... is that sh#t happens.

You could be driving down the road and a semi smacks into you (as happened to a friend in Belfast recently).

Actually they call them articulated lorries over here.

Several years ago, one of my nephews fell asleep in his semi and smashed into another semi up near Redding on Highway 5. He was the only one hurt but the CHP and firemen took almost two hours to cut him out of his rig. He lost some toes and was in rehab for a long time.

He did not mean or foresee that he would crash his truck.

Sh#t happens. And when it does, society, us, should be supportive.

So it is not such a simple matter of "social responsibility" as you put it/ask Bernard.

But I will agree, that there is a "victim" culture, especially in the US it seems. Some people do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

I have always, always, held my hands up if I messed up, mea culpa. I have never sought to blame somebody or make excuses for my f*ckups. (My late mother, late brother Mac, brother Casey, and uncles, taught me that. Especially Mom and Mac, "take responsibility for your actions", good or bad.)

And on the flip side, it is nice to be recognized for doing a good job.

To iterate, I agree, there is somewhat of a 'culture' out there to try and avoid responsibility for one's actions. To point the finger elsewhere.

But when sh#t happens, people do need help. We are a social species, a pack animal, IMO that is why we have survived as a species.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:01am PT
locker has a great point.

Society is f#cked up. I have NEVER had an easy time of it in this culture. So much falseness we live with in today's world. So much unimportant BS being touted as THE WAY. So many scams being perpetrated against us, affecting our health, freedom (of mind anyway)and well being.
There are times I honestly can't stand it and I have to disappear myself.

30 days on the trail last summer, talking to other folks doing the same thing, living out with the deer. I was in heaven. Never wanted to come out.

I pace the box I live in like a rat in a cage.
The weather so cold outside it freezes my breath in my throat.

So I jog in place and the cat streaks down the hall. I chase. We have fun. I go to work and wonder what is it all for?

I'll be back in the Sierra by summers end.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:57am PT


^^^

See!!!...

There's a "NUT" right there...

LOL!!!...


Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 27, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Hossjulia, get back to your cubicle.

How dare you take a month off to hike. ;-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Billions of people would kill for a cubicle. ;-)
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 27, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Cross posted this on Mountainlions "What is a worthy cause" thread.

full link:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/give_him_the_boot_FKlhXh3eJx09zq9oQi73HI

"Give him the boot
Posted: March 27, 2013

So it now turns out that Jeffrey Hillman, the barefoot beggar who famously received a free pair of boots from a big-hearted police officer, not only has an apartment but pockets as much as several hundred dollars a day while pretending to be homeless.

Hillman freely admitted as much to a team of Post reporters who followed him home on the subway Sunday — and then watched as he calmly counted a huge wad of bills. Not to mention that he seems to be the Imelda Marcos of the streets, with at least 30 pairs of shoes and boots.



Most New Yorkers will doubtless be disappointed to learn that the inspiring tale of a police officer’s kindness to a man in distress would have such a cynical denouement. Few, however, will be surprised. Even so, there is a moral to this story that is especially timely. The beggar whose charade spurred Officer Larry DePrimo's act of kindness is a fraud.

New York is a generous city, at both the individual and government level. In addition to private charity, those in need can count on a whole raft of services, from shelter to food to rent subsidies and Medicaid. Our guess is that most New Yorkers are more than willing to pay so long as their dollars go to help people truly in distress.

Hillman reminds us how easy it is to exploit generosity. His scam seems to have been directed at passers-by who take pity on a man who goes about Midtown pretending to be barefoot, poor and homeless. His example reminds us why it is important for the city to ensure that its own assistance is not exploited by those who don’t need it.

For in addition to the needy, New York also has a whole class of politicians and activists quick to denounce City Hall as cruel and heartless (and to sue) whenever it takes reasonable measures to weed out the deserving from the undeserving.

When the NYPD’s Larry DePrimo bought those now-famous boots, he represented the best of this city. People such as Jeffrey Hillman remind us that when the greedy take advantage, there’s more cynicism about giving — and less help to go around for those truly in need."


John M

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
When the NYPD’s Larry DePrimo bought those now-famous boots, he represented the best of this city. People such as Jeffrey Hillman remind us that when the greedy take advantage, there’s more cynicism about giving — and less help to go around for those truly in need."

To add to the cynicism, there was a news story that talked to some cops and they said all the cops knew this guy had an apartment and wasn't homeless because he had been picked up in the past many times. So the cop doing the giving was really just taking advantage of PR opportunity. Otherwise, how did they get the nice pictures.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 27, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
^ ^
Nice, a double level scam, with the public the losers, as usual!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Mar 27, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
Hossjulia I want you to know... I read every post of yours I see, I savor your words, I respect your opinion.

:-)

Fitting in isn't for everyone. I can only maintain the Grand Illusion for limited periods of time.

And yet?

I see Masters of Illusion, daily. Folks who can navigate the white water of society while swimming with sharks and smiling all the while. They live to 90 and when they pass people mourn their losses. Its always blown me away.

You see a smiling white haired old man in the park... he could be a former tycoon, or a child molester or a life long bully or drunk.... or he could be the nicest man in the universe.

From the smile alone you just can't tell.

Weird, huh? We all start and finish this life in the same way - its the in-betweens that'll get to ya.

DMT
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:51am PT
KUMBAYA
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Mar 28, 2013 - 02:53am PT
Philo, thanks for this one. It's now on my desktop screen saver.

Arne

Credit: ionlyski
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
Philo, I love that picture, too.

And Cragman's quotes about kindness...
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
Pud posted the best response
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Pud said:
"Theoriginalone,

Compassion should be for everyone, I'm sorry you've missed out so far.
Perhaps you can join in by randomly helping some one in need.
It will make you a better human being and there's nothing wrong with that."

So Pud, mmm, curious here: how many bolts did you send to Mountainlion after he flamed everyone here while begging for free bolts and hangers so he could have someone else pay for him to grid bolt some sh#t-assed little cliff in the Phillipines?
deschamps

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Billions of people would kill for a cubicle. ;-)

An important thing to always remember. No matter how much work frustrates us sometimes, having a job is a blessing.
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