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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 11, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
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Yosemite is, without a doubt, the best known rock climbing venue on Earth. The Valley has also had a major impact on modern climbing development. I'll name three....which one is tops in your opinion?
1) The development and continuing refinement of modern Big Wall techniques. The most obvious of the three, but is it the most influential?
2) The most influential venue for the development and spread of the "free climbing" revolution. A lot of climbers from around the World learned here that "French Free" was not free. Probably the most far reaching in it's impact on the face of today's climbing.
3) The spawning ground for the American renaissance in World class alpinisim. Granite big wall techniques and the 70's free climbing revolution propelled Americans into the cutting edge of alpinisim, a place where they had long been absent. Yosemite also provided the skills and showed what could be done in the mountains, forever changing the face of alpinisim. The process continues...the young guard of today's American alpinists either cut their teeth or refined their skills in the Valley.
My personal favorite,
What's your vote, or do you have other ideas?
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steve shea
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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Alpinism! I remember Chouinard writing about Yosemite as a gymnasium. To take the skills learned there to the big mountains of the world. One of several golden ages of alpinism in the Massif du Mt Blanc was in large part moved by American and Brits who honed their techniques in that gymnasium as well as the Valley. Then many of those same climbers went to the remote ranges of the world with the Valley experience. I think most of the ice climbing technical advances were also pushed by Valley visitors who just wanted to keep climbing through the winter. Of course those skills learned on waterfall ice in concert with the rock skills of the Valley is what pushed the sport. For many visiting climbers Yosemite was a just a whistlestop on their respective tours of the world's mountain ranges. A valueable stop but a whistlestop nonetheless, a gymnasium.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
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The easy access to nearly unlimited climbing challenges much like Chamonix seems to be the key.
The development of technique and skill becomes unstoppable once you mix access and inspiration. Each generation can find and learn what is needed to take the next logical step forward. Faster higher better. It's inevitable when you have the perfect playground.
It has become generational. Like Europe before it Yosemite is bringing second and third generation offspring of dedicated pioneers. Kids who are flashing one-time test pieces at age 10. Where will they go in the future? A bright future it seems.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
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Related to the 3 that Jim offers, I think the development of EQUIPMENT in Yosemite or by those who climbed there has also had a profound influence on world-wide climbing.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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I choose B. What was the question?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
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iron history lead to clean climbing revolution
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
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proficiency, efficiency, boldness, humble (to the YDS anyways).
Those seem to be the traits of the true Yosemite climber. The first three are pretty self explanatory. The last being humble, may need further detail. What I mean by that is, if a Yosemite climber travels to another climbing area he or she will usually lead, onsight at or above the grade they lead in Yosemite. When a climber travels to Yosemite, in my experience, they onsight lead at least a grade below what they feel they should.
It takes all three of those things to be a Yosemite climber. Whereas just one of any of them will get a climber up a 1 pitch sport climb.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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What me worry.
Oh oh I better run now .....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
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Definetly need to add BooDawg's point about equipment development....that was huge.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 11, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
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I saw this title and wondered who had taken the longest fall,..
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
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Of Jim's three, I'm inclined toward big wall technique as the most influential Yosemite effect, but all three had predecessors elsewhere. British free climbing had no "French free" component, and a great deal of boldness, and clean climbing really had its origins there, too. Some of the routes around Dresden had difficulties that were 50 years ahead of Yosemite in free climbing. Alpine big walls came into their own in the 1930's with the great north face routes, so what made Yosemite climbing so different?
To me, the relatively benign weather and good rock allowed its climbers to develop techniques for dealing with long, continuous difficulty that could not be pursued easily elsewhere. Britain lacks really big walls. The Alps have difficult weather and often less-than-perfect rock.
The reason I say big walls, though, is that difficult aid really was a Yosemite concept that got exported. I'm unaware of any climb in the world that had the aid difficulty of the Salathe-Nelson ascent of the Southwest Face of Half Dome in 1946. The overhang pitch on the Powell-Feuerer route on the North Buttress of Lower Cathedral rock in the mid-1950's -- 120 feet of continuous, difficult nailing, still rated A4 years later, was also probably without parallel anywhere else in the world.
By the time of the early 1960's, the Yosemite approach to big walls -- no fixed ropes, avoidance of bolts, difficult aid and free -- led to Yosemite climbers leading the world, and that's where the influence really began to spread. Climbers came from all over by the mid- to late-sixties to learn Yosemite techniques in the Valley, and the rest is history.
In the U.S., Yosemite had great influence everywhere, although I would argue that jstan, among others, had at least as much influence on the switch to clean climbing, and the big push in free climbing had many adherents all over. But for difficult rock walls, Yosemite was, and remains, unique in its influence.
John
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nopantsben
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
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i think freeclimbing was brought to the US -and then to yosemite for that matter- from the Elbsandstein area in Germany, where they climbed 5.10 or even 5.11 free before 1900, and did not use any aid for progression ever. Fritz Wiessner was one of the first people with Elbsandstein experience to visit the US and import that style, I think.
that said I'd go with nr. 1, because the Valley was (is!) so unique in that regard, while alpinism skills have been developed by European climbers in the Alps as well, Chamonix for the french folks and the Dolomites for Lacedelli, Cassin, etc. that then had an impact on Himalayan climbing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
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Jim, I'd say it's redefined what people are "third-classing!" ;>)
To put it in Lito Tejad-Flores's "Games Climbers Play" terms, Honnold on Half Dome brought the boulder game to big walls.
John
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Lost
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Mar 11, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
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I vote #3 first, with #2 a close second
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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Mar 11, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
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Cams. Others may have thought of them but they were perfected in the Valley.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
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from the Elbsandstein area in Germany, where they climbed 5.10 or even 5.11 free before 1900 I think this might be overstated somewhat. True, the Elbsandstein was a strong catalyst for free climbing, but pre-WWI, I think the hardest route was 5.9, put up by American expat Oliver Perry-Smith (c. 1909 I think?).
I think A is probably the most accurate of donini's premise, though gear is pretty close behind.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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Mar 11, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
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i think the huge tour buses have the biggest impact on the yosemite valley experience. o h wait...
clean climbing without a doubt.
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mueffi 49
Trad climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
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In conjunction with Jim's item 1. and 2. - I like Chill's reply: "Cams"
Think about it - what would the Valley be without it?
Compare it to Europe's "free climbing" approach where - by now - nearly all the classic free climbs are"retro-bolted" to provide (their) State-of-the-Art protection
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sempervirens
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
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Perhaps a topic for another time: Climbing's impact on Yosemite.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Mar 11, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
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Crack climbing.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
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1. Salathé Wall
2. Nutcracker
3. Nose free
I see those three as the emblems of Yos' progress, each for the obvious reason. Maybe you could add the Phoenix as 2b, for Jardine's contribution of the SLCD.
Maybe the next item on that list would be Honnold's Triple IAD.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
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Regarding Free climbing, Ben and John have excellent points. The routes being free climbed in Germany in the early part of the 20th century were far harder than anything else being done. The British also have a long tradition of hard free climbing with the likes of Whillans, Brown and Boysen and guys like Stannard, Wunsch, Barber, Goldstone and Bragg were pushing standards in the 60's and 70's in the Gunks as was Erikson, Ament and others in Boulder.
These developments, however, were happening in a degree of isolation. The lure of the magnificent granite walls of Yosemite brought climbers from many countries together into one spot. I was witness to the transformation of a really good French climber tn the Valley in the early 70's. He was super good but he would naturally grab a piton if there was one in place. After being admonished, he ceased doing it and found that he could still do the climbs. That sort of attitude was brought back to the Continent and other areas around the World and soon became the norm.
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JohnnyG
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
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What about climbing clean??
No pitons. Kind of goes along with someone's suggestion about cams.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Mar 11, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
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that's what I says above Johnny. It's been glossed over in the thread by the rest of these guys and subsumed into some clap trap about SLCDs. ;)
* and to the point above about Elbsandstain. Its not an impact if it isn't done at a time when magazines couldn't have picked up the story and had the rest of the world doing the same thing.
While poignant, the "impact" was not that big.
In clean climbing though, let's compare Gritstone standards to Yosemite's harder learning curve of having to go through the iron age first to start using nuts and SLCDs and free climbing more.
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Gene
climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
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Yosemite’s impact is a result of the fact that it provides an accessible and benevolent playground relatively free of objective dangers which allows climbers to master the art of moving over stone. For most, that is enough of a goal. For some, mastery learned in Yosemite is just a point of departure for other arenas.
Big walls were done in Europe prior to Yosemite. The Brits had a great tradition of free (and clean) climbing which Yosemite embraced. Yosemite climbers without a doubt opened the door to big climbs in Europe, Asia, and South America – and even in Colorado.
Yosemite’s contribution is that it attracted climbers who took the best from around the world and synthesized it into the techniques and commitment that Chouinard was referring to.
My vote: 1, 2, and 3 with the caveat that what was done in Yosemite – at least after the mid-60s - was not done in isolation.
g
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
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Biggest impact: proof of concept that a climber can meet all his/her caloric needs by eating food leftover on stranger's plates.
This was a quantum leap forward from making a meal of tomato soup from free ketchup packets.
Second biggest impact: proof of concept that the climber can sleep free in a highly regulated and expensive venue by employing the stealth bivy.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 11, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
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I gotta go with the big wall climbing on this. I think that is the most uniquely Yosemite contribution to climbing. Clearly the free climbing style was influential in the way Donini suggests, but i think that it was part of a whole that was going a lot of places. Even if it had the largest of the voices it didn't stand out the way the wall climbi g did/does.
And likewise the alpine. It seems to me that Yosemite school contribution to that was mostly an offshoot of the wall climbing as well.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Mar 11, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
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I'll vote for #3, as well.
Most of the good alpinist of my generation, had a few big walls under their belt, early in their career.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Mar 11, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
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Jaybro, even you didn't say the 'wide fetish!'
Where did reel offwidth start, folks????
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wayne burleson
climber
Amherst, MA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
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Great thread!
Thanks Kevin for beautiful poetry...
Thanks PhylP for levity. Climber "culture" is a key contribution.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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Yosemeite was certainly influential in the areas you mentioned. But I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at here, Jim.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
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i think the huge tour buses have the biggest impact on the yosemite valley experience. o h wait... LOL.
clean climbing without a doubt. I concur.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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My unimportant take on Jim's query
1: The irresistible lure of the big walls.
2: The clean & free climbing revolution.
3: The evolution to serious Alpine climbing.
4: The crystallization of 1 through 3 on Big Mountain Big Walls.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
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From my very limited perspective and assisted, estimated triangulation, "spawning ground" would appear to cover all the bases.
I'll probably burn in Hell for that one...
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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"spawning ground"
LOLila perfect.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Mar 11, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
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The ability for all of the above mentioned progressions to so easily be captured on film and spread out to the world culture at large. Also millions of civilians see headlamps twinkling on walls and climbers walking by.
A world class venue- right next to the road. That is the the biggest impact.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
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It's really all about that airplane crash and the extra time bought to produce things like the friends and push the boundaries of climbing by using the abundance of free time. In a culture like california with a place like that, everything just came together at the right time to spawn some crazy ass climbing homos...
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Mar 11, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
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pullies, winches, stove legs, hard pitons, no pitons, bashies?, bird beaks?, bongs, HEHEHEHEHE, bongs....
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 12, 2013 - 04:53am PT
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Bump, Awesome thread & lots of cool posts. I need to go to the valley to properly answer this.
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nopantsben
climber
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Mar 12, 2013 - 08:29am PT
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i've been told there is a route from 189? that was rated 5.8 but really has mandatory 5.10+ or so on it. can't think of the name.
but I agree with Jim that Yosemite is different from Elbsandstein and ultimately had a very different impact.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Mar 12, 2013 - 10:31am PT
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The chance to hang with people from many different countries.
Good parties and socializing after dark.
Eating strange Japanese delicacies with the Suzukis and their friend.
Climbing Braille Book and not being able to see the roads or campgrounds, just thinking we were in wilderness (only 1 other party within sight or earshot).
The first real leader fall. The first 5.10 leads
Lots of fun and challenges.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Mar 12, 2013 - 10:54am PT
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Okay I agree on all 3 counts but Yosemite is the antithesis of overhanging face climbing and its techniques.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Mar 12, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
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Yup, it's about crack climbing and always will be.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 12, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
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Yosemite is what you make it.
Not more or less .......
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 12, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
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i've been told there is a route from 1989? that was rated 5.8 but really has mandatory 5.10+ or so on it. can't think of the name.
It's called "High Pressure"
Bridwell rated I believe originally 5.9 to piss off all the down raters during that period.
It's actually 5.11.
Me and Kauk went up there on day to do it and it's definitely NOT 5.9.
Is this the climb you're thinking of?
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