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Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 10, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
I had dinner last week with an old friend who was huge in the electric car
business technically speaking. He agreed that electric cars are unjustifiably
polluting in terms of making the batteries.

Trad climber
Butte, America
Mar 11, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Plastic grocery bags that are cooked at high temperatures are proven to be the cheapest, most efficient hydrogen storage cells that out perform anything yet discovered... is stifled, and mankind suffers.
john hansen

Mar 11, 2013 - 12:58am PT
The ban on plastic bags just went into effect over here in Hawaii.

The reason we did it here is because they blow into the ocean and fish and turtles and other creatures either get tangled in them or ingest them. It was a bit of a hassel at first to remember your re usable bags, but after a while no big thing.

I have built three school buildings, with over 25,000 square ft combined , that are suppling all thier electricity with solar and selling the surplus back to the local utility. I would say the panels took up less then 50% of the roof space.

A lot of solar companies now offer leases where they put in the system for free, and then just charge you your normal monthly electric bill.

After a certian time,, like 7 years, you own the system.

The county building dept here , is overwhelmed with permits requesting solar panel installation's. This island only has 170,000 people but they are getting 30 or 40 applications for solar systems a week.

That is close to 2000 per year..

The hardest part of all this is to get the local utility companies to accept all this energy flowing back thru thier infastructure. They can make more , if they supply the power themselves.

Interesting times we live in...

20 % of our energy comes from a geo thermal plant here on the Big island.



Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:41am PT
Nice thread Philo. I'm so stoked to see what happens with tech over the next 10-15 years. Not only with solar, but also with medical. They are on the verge of so many breakthroughs right now - its really an exciting time.

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:56am PT
thanks Philo, good stuff-seems like there is solutions out there for our problems, if we can just get these ideas implemented...

interesting info, John Hansen... a ban on plastic bags sounds like a great start, and it just forces people to change one little habit (bringing your own bags). In fact, I haven't been perfect on that one, and now I am going to bring my own reusable cloth bags from here on out... packing them in the car as we speak...

Trad climber
Redding, CA
Mar 11, 2013 - 02:01am PT
Interesting how the Governor thinks the current tax breaks are fiscally unsustainable. Sounds like it was fun while it lasted. Now the state can figure out how to pay for all those lost revenues. Maybe they can blame the big corporations they are giving the breaks to... If the are still in business. Probably will need to raise taxes. It is all smoke and mirrors!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 11, 2013 - 02:26am PT
Did Locker ever answer the phone?

We'll see later, I suppose. It could be so awesome just to be there to find out.

What's the deal with a switch-over, Philo? Oil to diodes, I mean. I foresee War, Plague, Famine, and Disease: the horse's revenge, like. Worst case, though.

I figure about twenty million dead here in the USA (US of Automobiles)before they/you give up their/your death machines that run on dead animals and plants? More? More yet?

One thing, should the government see their/our way clear to implement glass roads, they/we then could put squads of those pesky homeless folks to work-Caltramps--with long-handled squeegees, baby strollers full of old newpapers, and Indian pumps full of Windex.

In a brief O.T. aside to Mr. Hansen (Aloha), can you tell us if on the high peaks above the treeline on the Big Island, are there any rodents living there resembling marmots? I've always wondered about that.
Big Mike

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2013 - 02:46am PT
Solar is old tech too. The newest cutting edge tech is infrared band and it is embedded into stickers which can wirelessly transmit power! Very cool. Still in the labs, but imagine!! Any surface can be turned into a power cell!!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 11, 2013 - 03:09am PT
Interesting thread.

I've had a particularly fascinating week or two, in the green arena.

First, a talk by the mayor of LA and former mayor of Toronto. Very interesting perspectives. Because Mayors are closer to the action, they often can do more than Gov's or Presidents. For example:

The US has not signed the Kyoto Protocol on the reduction of greenhouse gases.....but Los Angeles HAS, and has met the standards!

In fact, LA has accomplished some amazing things. It is using the same amount of water as it used 20 years ago, through good practices. It recycles/reuses/composts 75% of the trash stream, from it's baseline.

On friday, I attended an all day conference on "Cool Roofs", something increasing adopted by cities across the country....NYC is a leader in this.

Commercial replacements with cool roofs have a payback of 5 years.
New roofs basically cost little to nothing.
Or the new rage: White roofs. This is not voodoo, it is scientifically proven.

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Mar 11, 2013 - 09:13am PT
Philo,great post,there are so many better ways ,we will have to get there.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2013 - 09:44am PT
That is the point, that there are better ways. Strange that some feel anything new and different should be denigrated in favor of a failed status quo. Fortunately he foolish will follow along with the future.

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Mar 11, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Best way to a better future and to be green:

Consume less!

Stupid Americans. Heh.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2013 - 10:07am PT
How about being efficient enough to get more from less?

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 11, 2013 - 10:10am PT

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Mar 11, 2013 - 10:11am PT
A Breath of Fresh Air from China.

Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Mar 11, 2013 - 11:05am PT
The future is fukkin stupid.

Big Wall climber
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
At least the eco-nuts know how to get the ball rolling.

Sobriety is needed to prevent the ball from rolling in the wrong direction.

Sadly, they squander their excitement and credibility all too often.

I've had them claim we all need to switch to veggie oil powered cars. The technology is here! Break free of big oil! The sentiment is great, their math isn't. Veggie oil works great for the <<1% who can take advantage of the cast off used fryer oil. Beyond that, it does not scale. Once you start farming rapeseed just to burn in a car, it becomes a net environmental negative (more diesel used to farm than biofuel produced). Wasting political capital on dead end ideas that could be shown as such with the vaguest analysis is very counterproductive.

I really like seeing "green" home makeovers where folks rip out perfectly good counter tops and put in "green" concrete ones that can be recycled later. WTF? The obliviousness boggles the mind.

The point is that cheer leading should only be encouraged to a point. Once laws start getting drafted based on enthusiasm of hippies regardless of the actual environmental math, you are likely causing more harm than good.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Moof, well put.

The most ecological thing one can do is to use a condom.

The Granite State.
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:09pm PT

I'm intrigued by the algae idea. I first read about it in 'From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank'. If you haven't read it, get it.

That said, it seems that algae hasn't hit the productivity level yet to make it a financially viable alternative.

Anyone have knowledge of algae based fuels that they'd care to share?

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 11, 2013 - 01:12pm PT


I wonder when we might start to see that the Wind Power Industry is killing all the big birds..... how clean is that????

Just saying.
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