Has Ivan Greene responded publicly to the "chipping" vid?

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Matt

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
AKA the sledgehammering video?

Sorry I have not been watching and don't want to read through that whole thread to see if there is a mention of it, can someone help me out? Kinda curious what his public reaction is going to be, aren't you?
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
See the comments on the youtube.com videos.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 3, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Darn you Matt. You shun home for months, then materialize and present yourself out of the blue...expecting a Cliffs Notes report on the chiseling calamity...

...well sorry mister! You're going to be required to read the thread.


Or maybe you can read Jon Krakauer's upcoming book, Under the Banner of Chipping: A story of Violent Rock Modeling. (I wouldn't expect great accuracy or focus...but Mr Krakauer knows sensationalism sells books)




This I can tell you: Ivan's mother tears up whenever her son's name is mentioned...and the cliffs themselves are completely shattered over what he has become...
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
Dead Point Magazine has had his phone number, place of business and home address on their video comments so he can be harassed publically, and youwant him to make a statement! Lol. Ethics police climbers are a$$holes
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
I don't think anyone said they "want him to make a comment." Matt said he was "kinda curious." I am too... I'm curious if he has more remorse or indignation or simply doesn't give a fuk. Not that it matters, just curious. I'm also curious if Ondra gets any bitches.
WBraun

climber
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
Ivan Greene don't give a flyin fuk what you people say here or anywhere.

That's why he uses a sledge hammer and the perry tool .......
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
Really,, any climber that steps into the light should just paint a target on his backside.. Climbers in general are teriibly opinionated, and snarky at the drop of a hat.


And to think a chip is worse than 17,000 bolts hanging off the ORG walls.

Funny standards we have sometimes.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Mar 3, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Which brings up the old adage, "Don't teach a pig to sing. It annoys the pig and wastes your time".
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 3, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
This is Ivan's big chance to be famous. Either become the founder of modern day chipping, or beg forgiveness for his sins. Crawling and hiding under a rock is just missing an opportunity.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Mar 3, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
I meant the posts made by the people that are hosting the videos.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 3, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Yeah it's hard to tell what that other thread is even about anymore, I was under the impression Donald P was writing the chipping guide? Not krakauer? Very confusing, I'll try to pay more attention.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 3, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA

Mar 3, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Which brings up the old adage, "Don't teach a pig to sing. It annoys the pig and wastes your time".





DOH!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
Not a lot of craftsmanship in evidence in that chipping video -- he looked like Bam-Bam on crack -- but a small amount of this stuff went on at Woodson in the 80's. And as has been pointed out, in Josh and the valley as well. Today it's mostly forgotten and rarely, if ever mentioned.

Funny how the passage of time cools the jets and it all just fades away. In addition to the brutal hack job that seems to be going on (for what looks to be a chossfest problem, no less) the individual in question has been a pathological spotlight seeker at times and so the commentary on this will be al the more biting and sarcastic. It all adds up to a run-of-the-mill slagfest -- one we'll all have forgetten in a few months. I'm not an apoligist, mind you. I was physically cringing when I saw that vid -- thinking to myself -- WHAT THE F*#K?!! Might as well have used a jackhammer.

Personally, I think that crap that Ken Nichols has pulled in that part of the country is far more odious and loathsome.



sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Mar 3, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
He should be able to boulder his way out from under that rock he's hiding under, right? Even without a sledge.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 3, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Have I missed something? Besides the last train and besides life.

So is it a matter of "pull up the anchor and Chips Away?"

I guess I'll have to watch the video, just out of curiosity. The only thing I have ever chipped is my tooth.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:07am PT
Or maybe you can read Jon Krakauer's upcoming book, Under the Banner of Chipping: A story of Violent Rock Modeling. (I wouldn't expect great accuracy or focus...but Mr Krakauer knows sensationalism sells books)

Or you can read the Book of Mormon, which is WAY more accurate. You even get your own planet!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:08am PT
No, Ivan hasn't responded. See: Sociopathic Behavior.

You won't get that redemption from him likely, no more than Lance fessed when 'caught'. If your ego is big enough to see you this far, it'll see you to the grave.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:13am PT
"Soilent greene"...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:41am PT
I saw his music vid, he better keep his day job!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:42am PT
The GREENE mile!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Greene DAY!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:44am PT
a day on the GREENE?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:46am PT
I'm warning you this is as hard to watch as the chipping vid.
Greene puke.
Greene puke.
Credit: kennyt
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:50am PT
^^^ Wow.... jesus that was bad.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:50am PT
Greene-acide!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 4, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
I'm also curious if Ondra gets any bitches

With moves like dees, he's mackin on all the ladies:
weezy

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Book of Mormon

those mormons...they knew how to chip

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 4, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Ahhahhha! But the Mormons built a beautiful Tabernacle with their chipped rocks AND they owned them outright before they touched them with the pneumatic chisel AND (here's the best part) ...............


wait fer it.....

...THEY STILL, TO THIS VERY DAY, LET US CLIMBERS CLIMB ON THEM!!! (Can you say "Little Cottonwood Canyon". Bless their souls and may they all go to heaven - they deserve our thanks! (and I am not a mormon but really appreciate their largess in this thing)
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Or you can read the Book of Mormon, which is WAY more accurate. You even get your own planet!


No you DON'T get your own planet, Brother Davis!

Sorry, nothing in Book of Mormon about owning planets, asteroids, countries, or even your own van.

We've been over this before. The planet owning business was speculation on the part of Orson Pratt in the nineteenth century. It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.

You and Weston are going to find yourselves in an excommunication tribunal if you insist on preaching such dogma, sir.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Not even your own Van?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
lol. Mormon vans always have free candy.
Matt

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.


And what is allowed or prohibited TODAY is all we should look at, nothing more to see here, move along...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
It's NEVER been doctrine and teaching the tenet in church is prohibited.

Is teaching things that WERE past doctrine prohibited? Like plural marriage and the fact that blacks inherited the curse of Caine? I guess if you are going to believe in such fairy tales it isn't that hard to justify changing your beliefs whenever you feel like it. Then you can pull the "official doctrine" card whenever you get backed into a corner.

Or maybe morons have redefined the meaning of "doctrine?" I will stick with M-W for my definitions:

doctrine:
a : something that is taught

I'd say an official member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles (or governing body of the LDS church) teaching something qualifies it as doctrine... even if he was excommunicated and reinstated after Brigham Young tried to nail one of his wives.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:33pm PT

1876:
"All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions on millions of others

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 18:259, October 8, 1876

"Then will they become Gods...they will never cease to increase and to multiply, worlds without end. When they receive their crowns, their dominions, they then will be prepared to frame earths like unto ours and to people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth by our parents, by our Father and God”

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 17:143

"As our Father and God begat us, sons and daughters, so will we rise immortal, males and females, and beget children, and, in our turn, form and create worlds, and send forth our spirit children to inherit those worlds, the same as we were sent here, and thus will the works of God continue, and not only God himself, and His Son Jesus Christ have the power of endless lives, but all of His redeemed offspring."

Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 14:242

1894:

"...we shall sit upon thrones, governing and controlling our posterity from eternity to eternity, and increasing eternally"

Lorenzo Snow, Millennial Star 56:772, October 5, 1894

1956:

"...A man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings."

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48

2001:

"They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done."

Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
I'd say an official member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles (or governing body of the LDS church) teaching something qualifies it as doctrine...


No, the speculations of apostles don't have the sanction of doctrine.

Even precepts of the church president must have approbation of the church councils.

Yes, you can speculate, muse and theorize on your own time...but teaching, in church, the gospel according to Orson Pratt, Wes Christensen or GDavis is verboten.

Do you really want a planet, Wes? Does Matt really want the thread hijacked?

Ruling planets is the realm of conjecture and opinion, not doctrine.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
No planets?! Damnit, that was the only thing Mos had going for them over christianity.

What about Kolob?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob#cite_note-53
dave

climber
Earth
Mar 4, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
And to think a chip is worse than 17,000 bolts hanging off the ORG walls.

17,000? Psh... there's at least 17,243 and that number is growing daily thankfully ;)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
doctrine:
a : something that is taught

So you are redefining it... or at least using the "official" adjective to differentiate between the things THE CHURCH LEADERS tell their followers and the things that make them look like scientologists.

Only one planet I'd be happy on... and it ain't even a planet.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
What about Kolob?



The star Kolob is named in the Book of Abraham.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
And taken to the NEXT LEVEL by the morons.
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:09pm PT


"What about Kolob?"...

That creepy little dude in the Lord of the Ring???...

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
doctrine:
a : something that is taught

So you are redefining it... or at least using the "official" adjective to differentiate between the things THE CHURCH LEADERS tell their followers and the things that make them look like scientologists.


If the beliefs and speculations of all government officials automatically became law, we would inherit chaos.

If all meditations and speculations of church officials became official church doctrine, do you think a church would have homogeneity of tenets?

Yes, you can teach your own musings and theory at private get togethers. But doctine is taught in church. Try attending a Mormon chapel for six months, Wes. It's unlikely you'll hear any lessons or instructions about "ruling over planets".
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
If the beliefs and speculations of all government officials automatically became law

Doctrine does not equal law. This has nothing to do with beliefs and speculations of government officials... who, by the way, are elected by the governed and not chosen by divine inspiration.

doctrine:
a : something that is taught

law:
a: a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority


Just admit it, your church teaches some crazy ass sh#t and instructs followers to hide behind the shield of "official doctrine" when they get called out on it. It makes you and your clan of fellow funny underwear zombies look even more ridiculous when you pull this sh#t. At least scientologists have enough honor to defend their teachings.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
It's not a teaching...it qualifies as folklore.

And to you... a sensationalistic caricature of Mormon beliefs to
expound your one-sided view of the faith.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
it qualifies as folklore.

As does all religion, especially one that has changed as much as the moron religion has in its brief history.

That sh#t was taught by the LEADERS of your church for Christ's sake. Not once, not twice... not mumbled over a cup of coffee or a beer... it was TAUGHT at Brigham Young University... by LEADERS of YOUR CHURCH.


And sure, I'll stop bashing morons in general... as soon as they own up to their DOCTRINE (teachings)...

...and stop sending 19 year old kids with the title "elder" to brainwash people.
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:42pm PT


LOL!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
im thinkin wes has done some "cleany-chippy" stuff on his talus chunks.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
Ron, I don't chip boulders and I don't accuse you of the equally repulsive act of necrophilizing your dead animals.

Stop being a DICK.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Back to that stunningly bad attempt at Hip-Hop: was anyone else immediately reminded of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler, adrift in a haze of self-delusional hubris, actually beleives he can write songs and perform music?

My primary reaction is one of embarassment and mortification for that poor lost soul. Was that really Ivan Greene? Or a cruel troll? Holy mother of God, somebody who knows and cares for him should sit him down and deliver a serious reality check. Damn, son. CB4 without one whiff of that movie's delectable irony. It's gonna take a few hours of sonic cleansing -- maybe some Wipers, or Sleater-Kinney -- to disinfect my sense of hearing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Did u know,, many a mammal actually has a PENIS BONE?


edit: wes,, ok,, i guess one is enough for any site..carry on...
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 4, 2013 - 02:58pm PT

LOfukingL at that Video clip of the dude being some PHONEY "Rasta Chip"...


Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
Religious zealots have been chipping holds in the Stone of Reality for a long time now, not just Mormons and Republicans... :P
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Just admit it, your church teaches some crazy ass sh#t and instructs followers to hide behind the shield of "official doctrine" when they get called out on it. It makes you and your clan of fellow funny underwear zombies look even more ridiculous when you pull this sh#t. At least scientologists have enough honor to defend their teachings.


Yes, the church agrees with you...that I'm honor challenged...

But in nearly three decades of attending LDS meetings, I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught as verity or authentic. But you, with all your "honor" know better...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
Drat, too bad about missing out on Venus.

At least I'll be happy to know that part of my 10% I tithe is going to fight Gay Marriage legislation... millions and millions of dollars of it. Wahoo!

Mormons are cool. The church can eat a bag of dicks, a lot bigger bag of dicks than I am hoping Ivan Greene finds himself in front of. Because you see, that is what is important anyway. Perspective. Chipping boulders is shitty. Ignoring modern psychology and raising brainwashed children who think that being gay is something can be 'cured,' I dunno man that seems pretty bad.
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:21pm PT

If the night sky is dark enough and you have a powerful telescope...

if you search the skies long and hard...

eventually you will see Uranus...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Uranus,, long as it aint myanus...
OR

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Back to that stunningly bad attempt at Hip-Hop: was anyone else immediately reminded of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler, adrift in a haze of ssef-delusional hubris, actually beleives he can write songs and perform music?

My primary reaction is one of embarassment and mortification for that poor lost soul. Was that really Ivan Greene? Holy mother of God, somebody who knowas and cares for him should sit him down and deliver a serious reality check. Damn, son. CB4 without one whiff of that movie's delectable irony.

Truth spoken here.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
John M

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
At least I'll be happy to know that part of my 10% I tithe is going to fight Gay Marriage legislation... millions and millions of dollars of it. Wahoo!

Damn dude. You tithe millions and yet you still work at a gear shop.. How about joining my church? the rules are easy. Tithe to me regularly. Climb often, and you will become leader of Venus when you die. Or whatever planet that you want. Even Earth. I can make it happen. Just send that tithe.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
Back to that stunningly bad attempt at Hip-Hop: was anyone else immediately reminded of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler, adrift in a haze of ssef-delusional hubris, actually beleives he can write songs and perform music?

My primary reaction is one of embarassment and mortification for that poor lost soul. Was that really Ivan Greene? Holy mother of God, somebody who knowas and cares for him should sit him down and deliver a serious reality check. Damn, son. CB4 without one whiff of that movie's delectable irony.

Truth spoken here.

Well I suppose that may be "truth" if the guy is hoping to get a recording contract, but seems just as likely that he likes belting out some tunes and making funny videos, like 99% of the stuff put on YouTube.
I think you guys are taking this a little too seriously.
(And to my untrained ear, he doesn't sound too bad, actually pretty good by YouTube standards. He's probably the equivalent of a 5.10 "rasta" or whatever that stuff is).
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
It doesn't sound any dumber than any other religion. Hey, where is this LSD church, anyway?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught as verity or authentic.

Nice qualifiers. You would be way more credible if you could HONESTLY bring yourselves to say...

"I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught."

Or maybe even...

"I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught by church leaders."

But you don't. You qualify your statements, as if anyone gives a sh#t what titles your leaders choose to bestow on your various fairy tales.

You send your little 19 year old "elders" to teach that sh#t... and then deny that it is a teaching. It is absurd... but you know that... and have no problem with it... which is the only reason you can stomach 3 decades of ridiculous fairy tales and "brain" washing.

But you, with all your "honor" know better...

Honor has nothing to do with it.




Don, it has its pluses and negatives. Big plus is the women are hot... a negative is they don't even let you play with their boobs and literally turn into cows when they start popping out pups. Another plus is they are all at church on Sunday, so the crags are full of heathens.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:57pm PT

You send your little 19 year old "elders" to teach that

No, LDS missionaries are NOT instructed to teach that members may rule over planets. If they do they will likely be sent home or given probationary status.

You're reading tracts from "the Godmakers" or other wild eyed anti-mormon propaganda...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
Never read that or even heard of it.

I don't read... I get all my information from divine inspiration. See, I have these stones that I put into this hat here...
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
From the lds.org official church website:

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?


No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).


...but if I were a cynic...I suppose I would place confidence in those little paperback volumes the antis leave on my doorstep in the dark of night.


mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Oh, well then it is official... as official as the Vatican NOT hiding child molesters or the US not torturing.

Still haven't seen you type... "I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught by a church leader."


Doest thou bosom burn upon preponderance of ruling thine own kingdom Jennie?

"But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right"
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Still haven't seen you type... "I've never heard Orson Pratt's planet ruling taught by a church leader."


I've never heard it taught by eminent or notable church authorities. I've heard it discussed by stock, unexalted members on occasion.

Again, people are allowed their opinion...as you are allowed yours. My neighbor is free to express his view and I'm free to disagree.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
I've never heard it taught by eminent or notable church authorities. I've heard it discussed by stock, unexalted members on occasion.

nice... as in pathetic.

I've heard it discussed by stake presidents, bishops, and missionaries.
That is NOT an opinion, that is a FACT.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Relax dude.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Just because I don't like truth distorters doesn't mean I'm not relaxed. I don't even have pants on!
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
And where would you hear bishops and stake presidents teaching Mr Pratt's doctrine, Wes? I doubt the U invites local religious leaders to lecture geology majors in the Sutton building.

They aren't allowed to teach such doctrine in church...if they DO agree with Pratt where exactly have you heard them express these opinions?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Wes, You and Jennie need to get a room.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
They aren't allowed to teach such doctrine in church...

Pratt taught that at BYU. I know, not officially a church, but don't kid yourself... you know as well as I do...

... if they DO agree with Pratt where exactly have you heard them express these opinions?

I invited some missionaries in for coffee one morning. They didn't have any. I brought up visiting other planets and all the nice beings I met through my experimentation with astral projection and Shamanic journeys. They said something along the lines of "that's interesting! You know.. blah blah blah..." I then asked them "if LSD is so bad, why does God let you visit such nice beings while tripping?" They left shortly after.

Growing up SURROUNDED by morons I've heard it countless times. Scout camps. Dinner conversations. Death bed nonsense. From common folks as well as higher ups. I haven't read a single book about morons, other than TBOM itself. Why would I? You are worse than a mobster pretending they don't order hits.


I'd totally get a room with Jennie. I haven't had a 5 hour make out session with no touching for over 20 years. Immediate satisfaction from the gf is great... but, I like getting totally worked on projects I'll never send too. And from her profile pic I assume she hasn't had kids and is still under 200 lbs.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Ivan would be PISSED if he saw his post turn into a mormon throw -down.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
If Jennie says that the 'planet' thing is unrealistic, I'll take her word for it, sure I could debate it all day but I am not going to pretend like that is a divisive issue to me, lol. Like eternity in Heaven is some how less silly, or the idea that a Man lives up there who listens to every murmer... yeah. A planet would make some sense.

Besides, Mormons are just too damn nice to really argue with. I always feel like a dick afterwards, LOL.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Nobody CARES about the frickin' Morons. Get over it. Let them be dumbasses on their own time.
Let's hear more about that hippy hoppy homo chipper dude.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
Besides, Mormons are just too damn nice to really argue with.

Yes, many of them are. And yes, I sometimes feel shame for being a dick.

But then, most Germans are nice too and I will argue with them over Hitler's teachings (that's right, I went there!) if they try to brush them aside as "not official German doctrine, so they don't count."

I'm sure there are plenty of Brits who are as#@&%es, but I can't help chuckle every time they talk. If I hear "today 13 children were blown to bits by a suicide bomber" on US news, I'm sad... if I hear it on BBC, I can't help but expect to hear "and now for something completely different."

Point is... 3 more weeks and I won't be stuck in front of a computer anymore. Until then.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
Growing up SURROUNDED by morons I've heard it countless times. Scout camps. Dinner conversations. Death bed nonsense. From common folks as well as higher ups. You are worse than a mobster pretending they don't order hits


Wes, scout camps, dinner conversations and, my condolences, deathbed discourse are medium for opinion and personal sentiment.

If a bishop is conducting an authorized church service within a youth camp, he shouldn't be palavering about non-doctrinal precepts.

Hanging out with boy scouts around the campfire, he should be careful about what he says...but in a casual gatherings, personal opinions come out.

Is it possible the Pratt prattle you heard was vocalized by adult assistants just articulating their personal notions.

Some mormons like the "ruling over planets" conception, no doubt...but for most members it's..."what in this life prepares me to "rule over" a planet in material, temporal and spiritual dimensions?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
but for most members it's..."what in this life prepares me to "rule over" a planet in material, temporal and spiritual dimensions?

Why would "most members" contemplate such a thing when it isn't even taught?
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
Back to that stunningly bad attempt at Hip-Hop: was anyone else immediately reminded of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler, adrift in a haze of ssef-delusional hubris, actually beleives he can write songs and perform music?





I nominate Dirk Diggler for the win...
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Why would "most members" contemplate such a thing when it isn't even taught?



Again, it's not taught in church.

The concept gets expounded in personal gabfests. And some patrons of the notion assume an authoritarian posture, and, sadly, a few listening assume it to be veritable dogma
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Jennie, I'm not arguing with what your leaders deem "official" doctrine.

I don't really care what those old fulks say, other than as a tax exempt group they should NOT influence politics... but still do.

I'm talking about "most members" who contemplate things like...

"what in this life prepares me to "rule over" a planet in material, temporal and spiritual dimensions?"

Or "are blacks really marked with the curse of Cain"

Or "are women really so inferior that they can't get into heaven without the help of a righteous man."


Those come from YOUR religion... official or not, I don't care.
Those were taught in YOUR religious institutions (BYU, etc)... official or not, I don't care.
Those were taught by YOUR religious leaders... official or not, I don't care.

They influence the attitudes and behaviors of YOUR fellow morons. The only good news is that the number of people who believe the "unofficial doctrine" is rapidly decreasing. Just today a good source has informed that is has gone from

many members

to


a few listening assume it to be veritable dogma
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Hahahahaha I love that this stupid thread got hijacked.

Gold Emchrist, pure gold.

Butt sex is cool though, right?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
They influence the attitudes and behaviors of YOUR fellow morons. The only good news is that the number of people who believe the "unofficial doctrine" is rapidly decreasing.

Yes...happily we agree on a few things
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
"most members" love butt sex
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
10 seconds of listening to Ivan's video and I like him a lot more. Its not hip hop its reggae. Blows away 90% of the music vids people post here. White dude with a hairbag and shades singing an anti-war bob marley type tune. Looks like a totally different person than the guy in the boulder chipping video.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Oh and Jennie, thanks for being the straight(wo)man.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
Oh and Jennie, thanks for being the straight(wo)man.


Your gratitude is appreciated, Larry.


I just got a bouquet from Ivan for hijacking the thread. Did you get one Wes?


:-)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
it is not of a well thought out ideology or dogma.

Tell that to all MY followers... most of them recovering mormons.



No flowers, but he promised me some private chiseling.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 4, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
It's a concrete jungle, better head west ...

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
I make about $0.48 an hour and work my ass off.

Most of my money comes from tithing... tax exempt of course.


mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
Hey Jennie, is anti-gay marriage something the church "officially" teaches, or just supports financially?
Captain...or Skully

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
Nobody cares about your vendetta, MORON!!!6!!
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:32pm PT

As to the subject at hand. . .

Who cares?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Oh, yeah, sorry, let's get back to all the useful stuff here...

How do you all feel about Ivan chipping?



Hey, did you see that Ron sent in the forward, and chim acknowledged that the editor got it?



And Tami needs drugs.



All important breaking news here on the Taco.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Uh oh frank is upset.

Dammit, Wes, this is a BIG DEAL.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
Who's the Mack?
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
People mind other people's business when their own business isn't worth minding. It Tahoe is the taint of the Sierra's, then someone is the a-hole of Tahoe and the ballsack of this forum... obviously. Cut your job and get a hair. D
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
I think some people take internet messageboards seriously, Chim. That's my philosophy.


Also I learned a lot about butt plugs. This thread is great!
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
Yer funi tami
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
I stepped out for food... what happened!!!?

I detect some post deletions.

Seriously, you were expecting a serious discussion under this title... on this forum?



People mind other people's business when their own business isn't worth minding.

Do you work for TRPA?
John Butler

Social climber
SLC, Utah
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
...and stop sending 19 year old kids with the title "elder" to brainwash people.

Pffffft... They go when they are 18 :-)
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
Independently wealthy, haven't worked in years. Have nothing to learn, know it all. Yep Edit yer a serious a-hole.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Independently wealthy, haven't worked in years.

Is this to get around tithing? The wealthy, always hustlin'...
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
That's how I roll a real big a-hole
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
This was originally a climbing thread, albeit a bad one. Too bad it has been hijaked into a religious rant. Climbing threads are an endangered species on this forum.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 4, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
It's my fault, Jim. I tried to milk the funny out of it : / oops.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Reading about climbing... on an internet forum... wow, that's an interesting concept!
WBraun

climber
Mar 4, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
This was originally a climbing thread,

This never was a climbing thread.

It's a thread about a jackass human jackhammer gone wild on some boulder all while some other jackasses thought it was a good idea to do sh!t like this.

Must be a New Yorker thing?

Whatever ... have at it jackasses .......

Matt

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2013 - 12:01am PT
What Werner said.
weezy

climber
Mar 5, 2013 - 12:14am PT

MisterE

Social climber
Mar 5, 2013 - 12:22am PT
What this is, and what may or may not come to pass:

Hubris: an excess of ambition, pride, etc, ultimately causing the transgressor's ruin
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 5, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
Independently wealthy, haven't worked in years.

That's awesome. I'm usually only a dick when I work too much. Soon I will be cool again.


Jennie, still curious... is anti-gay marriage something the church "officially" teaches, or just supports financially?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 5, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
^^^^^

Good morning, Wes.
My elucidations seem to chafe you...instead, I offer you a passage from lds.com:

Addressing same-sex attraction
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acknowledges that same-sex attraction is a sensitive issue which requires kindness, compassion, and understanding. The website “Love One Another: A Discussion on Same-Sex Attraction” strives to address, through interviews and videos from Church leaders and members, the issue of same-sex attraction as it relates to individuals and affected family members. The statements and stories emphasize the importance of Christ’s commandment to love one another and reaffirm the Church’s position.

The Church’s doctrinal position is clear: Sexual activity should only occur between a man and a woman who are married. However, that should never be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down.1
In short, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms the centrality of doctrines relating to human sexuality and gender as well as the sanctity and significance of marriage as the union of a man and a woman.2 However, the Church firmly believes that all people are equally beloved children of God and deserve to be treated with love and respect. Church apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook stated, “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.”3

The divine institution of marriage
The Church distinguishes between same-sex attraction and behavior. While maintaining that feelings and inclinations toward the same sex are not inherently sinful, engaging in homosexual behavior is in conflict with the “doctrinal principle, based on sacred scripture … that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.”4

Because the Church believes that the sacred powers of procreation are “to be exercised only between a man and a woman lawfully wedded as husband and wife … any other sexual relations, including those between persons of the same gender, undermine the divinely created institution of the family.” Accordingly, the Church favors measures that define marriage as the union of a man and a woman. However, “protecting marriage between a man and a woman does not remove Church members’ Christian obligations of love, kindness and humanity toward all people.”5

Individual rights
The Church’s affirmation of marriage as being between a man and a woman “neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians.”6 On the contrary, many Church leaders have spoken clearly about the love and respect with which all people are to be treated. Former Church president Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008) told members who are attracted to the same sex: “Our hearts reach out to [you]. We remember you before the Lord, we sympathize with you, we regard you as our brothers and sisters.” President Boyd K. Packer affirmed, “We do not reject you. … We cannot reject you. … We will not reject you, because we love you.”
The Church has advocated for rights for same-sex couples regarding “hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.”7 In Salt Lake City, for example, the Church supported ordinances aimed at protecting gay residents from discrimination in housing and employment. 8

Gospel of love
The gospel of Jesus Christ is based on love, respect and agency. Mormons believe that all humans have inherited strengths, weaknesses, challenges and blessings and are invited to live, through the help and grace of God, the principles revealed by Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints maintains that “God’s universal fatherhood and love charges each of us with an innate and reverent acknowledgment of our shared human dignity. We are to love one another. We are to treat each other with respect as brothers and sisters and fellow children of God, no matter how much we may differ from one another.”9
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 5, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
Marriage is defined by one man and a woman, another woman, her daughter, a 12 year old cousin, and another woman.

...but don't look at dudes, that would be wrong.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Mar 5, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
^^^^haha.
I am going to Utah in a month, can i buy beer there?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 5, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
You can buy 3.2 beer easily, but you consume 1000 calories before you feel a buzz.

You can buy real beer, liquor and wine at state sores, but they have odd hours and are really expensive.

If you are driving, best to buy a few cases on your way there.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Mar 5, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
You can't buy beer there but you can get a raging case of male menopause.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 5, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
Many of the breweries in Utah (especially Epic) are way better than some of the famous choss in CA. Complaining about Utah beer is so 2001. Why doesn't anyone ever complain about CO beer?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 5, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
I knew a VERY CUTE Stripper from Utah.. "Ryan" - she was an awsome performer!!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 5, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender

Jenny, when did you CHOOSE to be attacted to men? Was it a tough choice? 'Cause I don't remember having to make a "choice" to get sprung for the ladies myself.

I have less than no respect for Momos or any other idiots who think homosexuality is a "choice".
Dickly

Social climber
KY
Mar 5, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
3.2 beer tastes better in CO bro!


whats Ivans address so we can sick some momo mishies on his ass!


GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 5, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Jenny, when did you CHOOSE to be attacted to men?

Because homosexuality is immoral, DUH. It's like choosing not to stab someone.


Right?
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Mar 5, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
"Why doesn't anyone ever complain about CO beer?"


Because CO beer is f*#king amazing.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Damn heathens!
covelocos

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20130304/articles/130309852&tc=yahoo

I guess this belongs here.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
^^^^

That is some very scary sh#t.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 5, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
I have less than no respect for Momos or any other idiots who think homosexuality is a "choice".


Those weren't exactly my words, Elcap...but, yes, we're idiots and deserve no respect for believing choices are important.

I admire your proprietous and pc post...good breeding and smart choices are always manifest in posts free of ethnic and religious slurs.

Think of me when you momo your lawn...
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 6, 2013 - 12:06am PT
So u guys mean to tell me there is some people out there who think we get to choose sexual orientation?

Now that is some seriously scary sh#t, I'd be really scared if the people who believe this also believe that a woman has no right to choose if she should deliver a child that was conceived against her will. What would also be really scary is if these same folks also felt so threatened by progressive thinking that they didn't even believe in evolution. Now that would be some scary stuff, a world without science?? Who in their right mind would believe such a thing.

Well, phew- good thing this is the Internet & none of that is real eh?


Matt

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 01:01am PT
You gotta admit, it's pretty entertaining to have a whole enormous group of people say that some people "choose" a lifestyle that makes their life particularly difficult in many ways, and that the "choice" to be gay makes them unworthy of both Heaven and of various social enterprises...

And yet, the same group thinks Gawd left them some gold tablets in a NY hillside a couple hundred yrs ago, which nobody else on the planet is hip to.

...

...

(seriously)

...

...

Seriously?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 6, 2013 - 01:08am PT
And yet, the same group thinks Gawd left them some gold tablets in a NY hillside a couple hundred yrs ago,


Uhhhm, you got the story a little wide of the mark, Matt. Mournfully, one of the perils of attending Jon Krakauer University.

...but its always a special event when you return to ST. Glad having you adding to the tumult and agitation on this happy occasion!

:-)
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 6, 2013 - 02:03am PT
You gotta admit, it's pretty entertaining to have a whole enormous group of people say that some people "choose" a lifestyle that makes their life particularly difficult in many ways, and that the "choice" to be gay makes them unworthy of both Heaven and of various social enterprises...

And yet, the same group thinks Gawd left them some gold tablets in a NY hillside a couple hundred yrs ago, which nobody else on the planet is hip to.

...

...

(seriously)

...

Do people choose to be alcoholics, or drug addicts, out outlaw bikers, or aid climbers, or lots of other dumb things that "that makes their life particularly difficult in many ways"?
I'm for gay rights, but I think some of you are letting your political leanings cloud your reasoning skills.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 6, 2013 - 06:02am PT
Holy hell, is Off Topic Marmot ever late to THIS party!

Off Topic Marmot says, "Dafuq happened to this topic?!"
Off Topic Marmot says, "Dafuq happened to this topic?!"
Credit: Vegasclimber
Dickly

Social climber
KY
Mar 6, 2013 - 08:25am PT
i want to go to the planet Kolob! The rock chips easier there!
i want to go to the planet Kolob! The rock chips easier there!
Credit: Dickly


enough said
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 6, 2013 - 09:22am PT


"Think of me when you momo your lawn..."...


LOL!!!...

bc

climber
Prescott, AZ
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:12am PT
Blahblah wrote - "Do people choose to be alcoholics, or drug addicts, out outlaw bikers, or aid climbers, or lots of other dumb things that "that makes their life particularly difficult in many ways"?

Do they actually choose or is it in their make-up to pursue such behavior? Addiction has causes separate from choice. Genetics plays a role. I doubt addicts actually choose this outcome. I took lots of drugs and never got addicted, some of my friends weren't as fortunate.
Risky activities (i.e. outlaw biking, aid climbing) are for risk takers. Could it be otherwise? Could you right now choose to rob a bank or randomly kill someone without being in some way predisposed? Could you choose to be gay? Choice it seems is not so clear cut. We are who we are. It shouldn't matter in the end. Do what you like (without hurting others of course).
locker

Social climber
FukUville
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:35am PT
LMAO!!!...




EDITED:

for a "Thread drift"...

Good route name!!!...

"pole over the coochie"...

LOL!!!...





And a "momo" EDIT:

"Mo" mows the lawn...

...
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
we're idiots and deserve no respect for believing choices are important.

Just when I start thinking you are smart, you pull stuff like this. I commuted 1hr to and from work (in Provo) with a guy who was gay. He asked me "have you ever considered sucking a c*#k?" I said "aw, hell no... dude... wtf?" He said "that is EXACTLY how I feel when people tell me being gay is a CHOICE! It makes me physically sick."

So Jennie, you ever consider going down on a girl?
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Mar 6, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
In the LDS church, is Jesus depicted as a swarthy, sun-burnt, dirty desert dweller, all hook-nosed and wild-eyed, or a strapping, blond haired blue eyed Aryan with the smug self-confidence of a corporate CEO?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
This is the mormon Jesus that watches over me when I take a dump, eat breakfast, walk down the hall, and nail my gf in the guest bedroom. Doesn't look like any of the desert wanderers I've ever met.

rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Mar 6, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
book of mormon opening song...



good entertainment :}

and from 60 minutes

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Mar 6, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
That Jesus is chiseled...deep-chested, square jaw. Does he have the 6, or has his core workout given him the coveted 8-pack? Bet you that guy could throw a money-lender claer into hell.
Matt

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
Well I haven't been looking at this site much of late, but I did just (finally) meet Crimpie and BrassNuts, out in Boulder a couple weeks ago, and she was telling me the general air of the forum has deteriorated. If the way people are talking to Jennie is an indication of the average vibe, I won't miss it here.

To be clear, I am no saint, and I can lay it on pretty good if I feel like it. I also have no problem making fun of someone's deeply held religious beliefs (obviously), but turning that into some sexually disrespectful or outright sexually offensive post? Not into it.

I don't respect people who type things they would not say face to face, that's just chickenshit Jr High School crap in my book. Life is to short to even associate with people like that.

Let me give you all some advice and perspective that has really worked well for me in my life: Don't associate with people who do not improve the quality of your life. Period. Seek out people in your life who make your life and your experiences positive, then be honest and generous and kind to them, and watch your life blossom.

Adios motherf*#kers!
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Mar 6, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
I just stumbled into this discussion, thinking it might be about chipping, and find a couple of guys abusing Jennie???

Think about what you're saying before you post such things. It is adolescent and inappropriate here. I recognize you have a point, Wes, but couching it in the form of a personal attack upon Jennie is simply disgusting.

I recognize that Jennie is quite capable of standing up for herself but your behavior has really brought the tenor of this place below a level I want to visit.

Make an effort to be constructive when you post. The rest of us do.

You too, Patrick.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Where did I personally attack Jennie? Seriously?

FWIW, if a woman defends the mormon church's anti-gay agenda I would have no problem asking them to their face if they have ever considered going down on another woman.

Make an effort to be constructive when you post.

I make it a point to stay out of 90+% of the threads here, especially climbing related threads. I think we can all agree that is pretty constructive.

But yeah, feel free to blame the deteriorating tone of the forum on me... that's what I'm here for after all.

Mormons do NOT accept gay people. They barely tolerate them.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 7, 2013 - 03:17am PT
Matt, you talk MAD sh#t to all kinds of people. Not that I don't, but you live in a glass house dog.



Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 03:24am PT
Adios motherf*#kers

You'll be back...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 7, 2013 - 03:28am PT
Seasonal Effective disorder.... gets people every season. Always a mass exodus and a return once the 120 opens.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 7, 2013 - 03:31am PT
Seasonally Affected Disorder

SAD :-( wauuwauuuwaaaaaauuuuuuuuu

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Mar 7, 2013 - 10:19am PT
You too, Patrick.

Crock,

I deleted the post that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I didn't direct any comments to Jennie, and I respect her standing for her beliefs in a hostile environment.

Mormoism is crazy, but so christianity with virgin birth. Anology to chipping: chirstianity is one or two chipped holds and mormonism is the whole route, but they are both chipping.. just a matter of scale.

Bill Maher thinks christianity will be absorbed into mormonism in America because americans are inherently narcissistic. So, a religion that re-writes the bible to have christ in american is perfect.

I like the Mormons way more than evangelical christians. Mormons I know are pleasant and non-confrontational. Maybe the holy underwear keeps them calm?

They are both on the wrong side of history on civil rights and now gay rights. But, the whole rebulican party is dying a slow death like an elephant stuck in the mud.
weezy

climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:05am PT
all the pompous, in-your-face atheists are every bit as annoying as religious zealots. we can thank that self-important tw#t dawkins for that. i've been an atheist all my life and i absolutely can't the tone of any of dawkins books or any of his smug little devotees. google "faces of atheism" for a laugh.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Mar 7, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
Maybe there's a god maybe there isn't. I just don't know. What I want to know is WTF is up with Dr Pepper?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 7, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Maybe there's a god maybe there isn't. I just don't know. What I want to know is WTF is up with Dr Pepper?
I don't know what is up with Dr. P, but Dawkins (and others) have a pretty good response to the "maybe there's a god maybe there isn't" view.

He uses as an example of the possibility that there is a perfectly formed china teapot orbiting the sun in the asteroid belt.
You can't prove that there is not such a teapot.
So it is equally likely that there is or there isn't, and is it reasonable to consider that there may well be since we can't prove it one way or the other?


Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 7, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
In the LDS church, is Jesus depicted as a swarthy, sun-burnt, dirty desert dweller, all hook-nosed and wild-eyed, or a strapping, blond haired blue eyed Aryan with the smug self-confidence of a corporate CEO?



The following paintings of Christ are the portraits most commonly seen in LDS houses of worship.

I paint ...but my sense of hue fails to discern blue eyes or blonde hair in magnified images of any of the three. Does yours?

At best, the Parsons painting depicts auburn hair with hazel eyes...palpably a nordic man. Christian artists around the world have a tendency toward painting Christ in their own racial/ethnic context. There is a story circulating that an LDS Prophet told someone that the Parsons painting was the closest tangible depiction of Christ. Not the case, the LDS church doesn't declare any painting as the literal visage of Christ.

When the Parsons painting was commisioned the artist was given largely free reign...but the church cirriculum commitee did ask for more color and light contrasts to attract the eye from afar.


Del Parsons, 1992
Credit: Jennie


Werner Sallman, 1941
Credit: Jennie


Heinrich Hofmann
Heinrich Hoffmann
Heinrich Hoffmann
Credit: Jennie
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 7, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
This is the mormon Jesus that watches over me when....Doesn't look like any of the desert wanderers I've ever met.


If your family commisioned a painting to remember their beloved Wes...

...would they want a portrait of the groomed and handsome Weston about to deliver his valedictary address...or the dusty, thirst crazed Wes returning from the Savage Mountain by way of the Arabian Desert ??
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 7, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
Would Jesus have looked like a modern Palestinian?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Perhaps...it might be well to remember the tribe of Judah were not related (closely) to the Phillistines and rarely intermarried with the other tribes or Israel or Arabs in the area for hundreds of years.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
JC need a beanie.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with Greene responding to that chipping vid. What page did the turn start? Lol
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
some of gods salespeople came to my door today, I had to remind them about the no soliciting/trespassing sign -again.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 7, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
Ya know Matt if you're gonna split, maybe you can take this train wreck wth you?
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Mar 8, 2013 - 01:08am PT
I see a chipped Gospel here: "Gospel of love The gospel of Jesus Christ is based on love, respect and agency. Mormons believe that all humans have inherited strengths, weaknesses, challenges and blessings and are invited to live, through the help and grace of God, the principles revealed by Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints maintains that “God’s universal fatherhood and love charges each of us with an innate and reverent acknowledgment of our shared human dignity. We are to love one another. We are to treat each other with respect as brothers and sisters and fellow children of God, no matter how much we may differ from one another.”9"

I am sorry to bring this up, but I noticed the post above. Frankly I would much rather respond to this post below: [I have not been here in awhile.]

“Let me give you all some advice and perspective that has really worked well for me in my life: Don't associate with people who do not improve the quality of your life. Period. Seek out people in your life who make your life and your experiences positive, then be honest and generous and kind to them, and watch your life blossom. Adios motherf*#kers!”

I disagree, I find that it is the people who I disagree with the most to whom I may in fact learn the most from, my best friend in an atheist, and I think he is a genius, most of the time. In other words, if you seek out people who agree with you all the time, you are not going to grow much in life. Isn’t that why we climb these walls? True … true?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqVlUBZ-D8
Old Video of Ammon McNeely Hard Man falling on aid.

But to get back to this first and unfortunate post I quote, that’s not the good news at all, in fact it is bad news and it is not the Gospel. This “The gospel of Jesus Christ is based on love” has to do with mens WORKS and NOT SALVATION at all. That’s NOT good news but WORK and something someone made up in their head, it does not come from the Bible. This WORKS Doctrine is typical of *Mormons*[1.], Jehovah Witnesses, Pseudo Christianity, and every other false religion, in fact every other religion on the face of the earth.

Here, I’ll prove it. Mark 12 “Which is the first commandment of all? 29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these.”

OK, so what are we talking about here? The LAW. But the law is not the Gospel, Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. … for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them” (Gal. 3:10).

The reason that all who are of the works of the law are under the curse is that “by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom. 3:20).

OK, so the Gospel is not love, that’s work, work work and more work till you fail and wind up in Hell. We are saved by faith in Christ AND FAITH IN HIS WORK. That is the reason why faith in Christ saves and faith in YOUR WORKS DO NOT SAVE.

The Gospel posted above is only something that will keep you working all the way till you fall off the end of this world into the pits of Hell. Don’t believe that stupid lie.

The true Gospel is, and now I will define it in my own words: trust in Jesus, and nothing more. If you cannot trust him, then you should. It is that simple. No need to write anything more.

Romans 4:5 “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

ACTS 13:39 “And by Him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses” [very easy] [Trust in Jesus]

It is only AFTER you put your faith in Christ that your works [Love of God and man, 1st and 2nd commandment] count for something, but these good works you do can NEVER ever save you from Hell.

Oh, ... and concerning one more mistake you make. Jesus was not white, He was a black man, as depicted in early Christian art.




Notes:

[1.] Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:32-33 Yea, acome unto Christ, and be bperfected in him, and cdeny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and dlove God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be eperfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye asanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the bblood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your csins, that ye become dholy, without spot.

[1.] Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37 37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their asins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that bno unclean thing can inherit the ckingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

[1.] Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

bamboo

Trad climber
pike co
Mar 8, 2013 - 06:55am PT

now you dun it!!!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 8, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
If your family commisioned a painting to remember their beloved Wes...

...would they want a portrait of the groomed and handsome Weston about to deliver his valedictary address...or the dusty, thirst crazed Wes returning from the Savage Mountain by way of the Arabian Desert

I suspect they will opt for the pre-Cure goth child of the 70's.



or the desert wanderer/climber indulging in the sins of the modern day Babylon that is Vegas.






it might be well to remember the tribe of Judah were not related (closely) to the Phillistines and rarely intermarried with the other tribes or Israel or Arabs in the area for hundreds of years.

Yes, Judaism has been xenophobic from the start. Which explains why the vast majority if religious wars have been fought by one, or several, of the nasty flavors it has spawned. It is a shame they didn't listen to Jesus when he tried to set them straight.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 9, 2013 - 05:30am PT
Cute pic, Wes...don't brush your hair, I want to remember you that way.

...brushing up on world history wouldn't hurt though.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 9, 2013 - 05:40am PT
I'm sorry Jennie I woke you up with my random posting.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 9, 2013 - 05:53am PT
Ha-ha-ha! No problem, Moosedrool...good knowing someone has a sense of humor at 4 AM
Berlington

Sport climber
Berlington, VT
May 30, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
What spineless pussies would hide out in the bushes to film a guy who is just out doing what he loves, getting dirty, not hurting anyone? Oh wait it's the same non contributing narg gobblers who will undoubtedly show up after the crag has been developed, the rocks have been scrubbed off, the trails built, the landings fluffed and the guide books written, copied, downloaded as free torrents and distributed to all their clueless, complaining, preachy, fully entitled friends for free. "Gawd, who's the lewsor that built this trail anyway? I can't even fit through here with my Mondo Ego Grande Ass crash pad."

This was posted on DPM under the video...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 30, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
his real crime is his music vid.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jun 20, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
To answer the question below...all the rest of us (except for the camera part). Duh. It's the human condition. Or we can call it "The Little Red Hen" story.
"What spineless pussies would hide out in the bushes to film a guy who is just out doing what he loves, getting dirty, not hurting anyone? Oh wait it's the same non contributing narg gobblers who will undoubtedly show up after the crag has been developed, the rocks have been scrubbed off, the trails built, the landings fluffed and the guide books written, copied, downloaded as free torrents and distributed to all their clueless, complaining, preachy, fully entitled friends for free. "Gawd, who's the lewsor that built this trail anyway? I can't even fit through here with my Mondo Ego Grande Ass crash pad."

The Lil Red Hen story for the uninformed.
"The Little Red Hen is an old folk tale, most likely of Russian origin. The best known version in the United States is that popularized by Little Golden Books, a series of children's books published for the mass market since the 1940s. The story is applied in teaching children the virtues of the work ethic and personal initiative. It is so well known that it is frequently rewritten by pundits and bloggers to illustrate their favorite points."

"Plot summary

In the tale, The Little Red Hen finds a grain of wheat, and asks for help from the other farmyard animals to plant it. But no animal will volunteer to help her.

At each further stage (harvest, threshing, milling the wheat into flour, and baking the flour into bread), the hen again asks for help from the other animals, but again she gets no assistance.

Finally, the hen has completed her task, and asks who will help her eat the bread. This time, all the previous non-participants eagerly volunteer. However, she declines their help, stating that no one aided her in the preparation work, and eats it with her chicks, leaving none for anyone else.

The moral of this story is that those who show no willingness to contribute to an end product do not deserve to enjoy the end product: "if any man will not work, never let him eat."[1]
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