Jack Roberts and the Fall


Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 61 - 69 of total 69 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>

Social climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Hey neebee..quick question for you or someone else reading may know.

Would a mini seizure allow one to keep both their tools firmly in hand during a long fall?


Social climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
hey there say, RDB... i will do some checks on that...

when my grandbabe had hers, (though hers were not mini) her fist grip
tightened up... she had two fist shapes, each hand...

the muscle contract, *depending on the type of seizures)...

but--i will check on this...
after a LARGE seizure, though, when the body had finished and completely
goes limp (they look like they are dead, sometimes) the
hand may fall open...

edit: there are some partial complex seizures, where a person will have one, and actually walk OUT of stores, carrying things and NOT even
know that they are having a seizure... (folks think they are stealing, and or, drunk, etc)...

i do not know, as to the mini seizures, they are so MICRO split
second... a person CAN have one right in front of you
and YOU will not even know it...

you will THINK that they just were 'off in thought' for a split
second, or any etc...

be back soon, i don't want to put out any false info, so
will find more on the mini-seizures...

this is what is so dangerous about them...

a young boy, in this area, years back, just keeled over into the water, right in front of his friend, when fishing...

there were nearby boats of folks that witnessed it, so they know there was not foul play... his friend tried to find him and get him out...
by the time they did, he had drowned...

after an autopsey they (in his case) had found that he had been having seizure activity for a long time...
his folks said they never saw him have any kind of seizure, but:
they were thinking of the full blown, or more commonly seen ones...

they did say a few times they thought he was not paying attention to something, but those again, were split second things, and, as we all know,
we ALL DO THAT... the difference though, with a seizure the PERSON will not remember or know that they were NOT paying attention, whereas,
those just 'fast day dreaming' or pre-occupied or etc, WILL have
heard what is going on, and will know that they intentionally
were tuning things out...


Social climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
"when my grandbabe had hers, (though hers were not mini) her fist grip
tightened up... she had two fist shapes, each hand..."

Pam and Jonathon have heard this all from me previous. So no surprises here. Thanks for the thought. I'm obviously just looking for some answers we'll never have.

But 60'+ of air time and a not so soft catch with a tweaked knee, and still holding onto both tools?

The "off" mentally and two "tight fists" make perfect sense to me. I was convinced the first time around. I also think Jack had a clue...but not fully aware of the circumstance/ health situation hence the recent adoption of umbilicals.

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
The possibility of a medical condition is interesting. I have heard about the "healthy person" seizure before. The figure quoted was 1 in a 100 otherwise healthy people will have this at some point in their lives (good point to think about before you solo). Maybe a doctor can post up about this.
Why did John Bachar fall? Maybe it was related to his neck issues? Just like with Jack we will never know.

Jack sounds like he was quite a guy.

Social climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
It does indeed make one rethink soloing @ past 50.

And trust me...never trust the medical community to know you...as well as YOU, know you.

Social climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
hey there say, RDB....

not saying this is the reason, of course...

just sharing the info, for folks to just have an understanding what
seizures are, etc, do, and all that...

it might help other mysteries, as to when folks have something
happen, and can't remember WHAT or WHY, something happened...

keep a look-out, too, if this happens a lot in your family, or friend
THERE are more than 40types of seizures among these
main guidelines (so the epilepsy ontario, site says--those some folks
say, there is even more variety in this, as well)

these last about 2-10 seconds, the person does not remember:


these last about 2-10 seconds,
some folks say they don't remember these,
but many others, DO... :


THESE folks do NOT remember, they last about
__2-4 min, with 'groggy dazed after affects
and confusion':__


*these can later lead to grand mal (clonic tonic)

THIS one, in this case, does not sound it would have applied
at all--but is good to know about, for all of us:


Social climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
hey there say, yeah, RDB ... one can just try to put puzzle pieces together for our loved ones....

there are thousands of folks having seizures, that never know, until a full blown has built up...

this type of situation, though, is only discovered after years of noticing behavior changes, as it progresses...
(and habits that are listed on the links)...

or--when someone falls...

also, if it had been a seizure then??
perhaps??(would have to ask EXPERTS on this) once it has
passed, the BODY FEELING itself fall, AT THAT POINT???
may very well go into the normal mode of what jack did when he fell...
even if confused...

grasp tools, etc, ... but these are just among all the
various guesses, to help you all...


take a READ on some of these links and see if you
witnessed anything similar...

that may help...
the fact that he did NOT know what happened, is what got me
to THINK on the seizure line... (or mini stroke, another angle entirely)

god bless to you, :)

Social climber
Mar 7, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
hey there say, AP...

also, good not to go swimming or fishing, alone, as well...
these are FAR more common than folks realize...

car accidents, too, have been linked to folks that did not know
they had seizure activity...

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Aug 22, 2013 - 09:41pm PT

Rick Accomazzo wrote a wonderful memorial to Jack in
the 2013 American Alpine Journal.

Thanks, Rick.
Messages 61 - 69 of total 69 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews