Red Swami
climber
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I hear Grizzly Adams was a chipper.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Having witnessed the various and dubious arguments rationalizing chipping in altering rock climbs for the past 30 years, I have distilled a summary of points in response:
(For clarification, I define chipping as the alteration of otherwise solid rock to provide or improve a gripping feature that was otherwise unusable. It avoids the other issues of cleaning, gardening, removing loose flakes etc. that some may also find offensive)
1. History has consistently shown us that one person's Last Great Impossible Route very soon becomes just another trade route, then warm-up, then babysitter's friend.
2. As time passes, the manner in which contemporary climbers view the older testpieces primarily rests on the style in which it was accomplished; in every era, the bozo chipper's route is always relegated to the sh*tpile,and his/her name is added to the list of moronic wannabes who never really got the essence of what climbing is. "Can you believe old Wobblefus actually had to chip to climb a 5.11?!!?? ha, ha, ha!"
3. Actually, feeling obligated to add the /her above for gender parity does a disservice to female climbers, because I know of no woman who has ever resorted to such tactics, perhaps because they are not as quickly blinded by their own amazing brilliance the way guys are.
4. Like "patriotism", chipping is the last resort of the scoundrel.
5. Whenever someone invests a lot of time and energy into a project, without success, the temptation to cut corners, pun intended, grows. Morally inferior individuals will succumb and immediately thereafter feel chipper's remorse, forcing them to spew volumes of rhetorical garbage in justification, to no avail.
6. The flawed argument that appears to accomodate chipping, or any other lesser offense, merely because it is NOT (Hitler, shooting kindergardners, etc.) is classic. Elevating the bar so high that everything else waltzes under it does not justify anything. In fact, I would bet if you are too spineless to challenge a mere hold chipper, you certainly would not be able to tackle a crazed shooter.
7. The "oh, so your doing . . . . (such and such) isn't the same thing/just as bad......" argument. Two poor actions do not justify each other. Every action must be judged on its own merits, and not attached to something else for justification.
8. The greatest unsung climbers may be the ones who refrain from chipping, etc. once they recognize their limits, knowing that one day a stronger person will likely be able to succeed without tainting the rock, and the sport. Taking your sport and yourself so seriously as to trash the medium that provides your "canvas" is to disrespect the earth itself.
9. Ever sensitive to the fallout from such behavior, sponsors should spell it out in writing - any climber found to be chipping shall be released from all sponsorship. The Court of Public Opinion is all that matters. Thankfully, by and large that Court still considers such tactics as affronts to our sport and lifestyle. Keep the pressure on.
10. Since there are no drug tests in climbing, chipping may the closest thing we have as an external test for who to scorn, despise, and ridicule.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Donald Perry has got to be one of the stupidest fcuks to have ever posed on this disco.
Wings of Steel redux.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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I think you don't understand what I am doing. I am starting a record, to keep track of where all the damage is. This is not a guidebook for climbing. I am not happy about what I did in the past, but I am not going to leave it out. Come to think of it, then again, I suppose it serves my purpose that you think I am an as#@&%e, because I am trying to do something to discourage chipping. So thanks, keep posting hate mail.
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prickle
Gym climber
globe,az
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i don't know when or who but supposedly the crimps on the boxcar arete were "softened".
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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i don't know when or who but supposedly the crimps on the boxcar arete were "softened".
Thanks, I will go there and take some photos.
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Randisi
Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
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i don't know when or who but supposedly the crimps on the boxcar arete were "softened".
The key right hand crimp is certainly far more square-edged than anything else on that boulder.
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Lurky Lurkington
Trad climber
eh?
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(For clarification, I define chipping as the alteration of otherwise solid rock to provide or improve a gripping feature that was otherwise unusable. It avoids the other issues of cleaning, gardening, removing loose flakes etc. that some may also find offensive)
1. History has consistently shown us that one person's Last Great Impossible Route very soon becomes just another trade route, then warm-up, then babysitter's friend.
2. As time passes, the manner in which contemporary climbers view the older testpieces primarily rests on the style in which it was accomplished; in every era, the bozo chipper's route is always relegated to the sh*tpile,and his/her name is added to the list of moronic wannabes who never really got the essence of what climbing is. "Can you believe old Wobblefus actually had to chip to climb a 5.11?!!?? ha, ha, ha!"
3. Actually, feeling obligated to add the /her above for gender parity does a disservice to female climbers, because I know of no woman who has ever resorted to such tactics, perhaps because they are not as quickly blinded by their own amazing brilliance the way guys are.
4. Like "patriotism", chipping is the last resort of the scoundrel.
5. Whenever someone invests a lot of time and energy into a project, without success, the temptation to cut corners, pun intended, grows. Morally inferior individuals will succumb and immediately thereafter feel chipper's remorse, forcing them to spew volumes of rhetorical garbage in justification, to no avail.
6. The flawed argument that appears to accomodate chipping, or any other lesser offense, merely because it is NOT (Hitler, shooting kindergardners, etc.) is classic. Elevating the bar so high that everything else waltzes under it does not justify anything. In fact, I would bet if you are too spineless to challenge a mere hold chipper, you certainly would not be able to tackle a crazed shooter.
7. The "oh, so your doing . . . . (such and such) isn't the same thing/just as bad......" argument. Two poor actions do not justify each other. Every action must be judged on its own merits, and not attached to something else for justification.
8. The greatest unsung climbers may be the ones who refrain from chipping, etc. once they recognize their limits, knowing that one day a stronger person will likely be able to succeed without tainting the rock, and the sport. Taking your sport and yourself so seriously as to trash the medium that provides your "canvas" is to disrespect the earth itself.
9. Ever sensitive to the fallout from such behavior, sponsors should spell it out in writing - any climber found to be chipping shall be released from all sponsorship. The Court of Public Opinion is all that matters. Thankfully, by and large that Court still considers such tactics as affronts to our sport and lifestyle. Keep the pressure on.
10. Since there are no drug tests in climbing, chipping may the closest thing we have as an external test for who to scorn, despise, and ridicule.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sorry to encourage the Donald, but....
If he is documenting all the chipping (preferably with the chipper so we can shame them for fuking with our medium), I find that acceptable.
Just don't try to down play the hammer because it isn't technically a sledge or try to pretend pounding on something for 2 minutes with a chisel is required to remove loose stuff. I know for a fact that it is NOT.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Just for the record, my chipping was not that big a deal, and it was a long time ago. I pried a rotten piece of a flake out of a crack with the pointy end of a piton hammer, and hit it a couple of times, it was not a project getting it out. That whole part of the cliff was all loose rock, no one was interested in it then, and no one is really very too interested in it now. I was just trying to find some interesting feature I would not kill myself on for the bottom pitch. There were tons of loose junk on it. There was a sh#t load of loose junk that came off there, chipping off all kinds of things on the way down with clouds of smoke. That's what we did in those days, dumped all the loose rocks off the cliff. One block even took out a tree.
Bragg on the other hand would leave loose rocks all over the place, like on Enduro Man for example. Mike Burlingame led the second ascent, knocked them off, and just sat down on the block.
As for Scary Area, I literally almost died on it. I assumed I could handle it when I got to the, what looks like a bucket, but it is rounded, there is no bucket there, and then you have to move right. And by the time I did that I was in a entirely different place, where if I fell I would hit the ground from even further up with no way to reverse the move. [There is a slope there on the hill.] I was pretty upset about it, it haunted me, at the time I felt something had to be done so no one would get killed. Today I would not have done the same thing. The good news is the first ascent party caved in and put a decent bolt there. Before then there was only a thin sheet metal piece of sh#t, I don't think it would have held the fall even if you could suck in the rope.
When constructing responses to my posts, keep in mind that my intent is to edit my writings when I find errors and shortcomings, but not to cast things in a different light. My posts will change when I realize I have posted something that can be easily misunderstood or not originally intended. Not everyone it going to meticulously follow through a whole thread further down to find the “correct” interpretation. However, I do realize that the thread needs an apology when there are significant changes. This is one of the reasons primarily, why I believe the supertopo.com thread configuration is highly superior over gunks.com.
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