Chipping culprit filmed in NY

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justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:00am PT
Funny- I was searching my old posts for a totally unrelated anchor thread over on NooB.com and came across this Ivan Green thread:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1029391;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


Evidently Ivan was already proclaimed as "the downfall in climbing" back in 2006 LOL.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:02am PT
Food for thought:
"Suppose the video showed someone doing a lot of the “legitimate” work that often goes into establishing a problem – someone scrubbing lichen, prying off loose blocks with a crowbar, scraping off dirt and flaky rock, excavating underlying boulders to make a better landing and so on. And suppose the video was presented as a tribute to all the hard work that sometimes goes into a making a quality boulder problem. Then people would actually be celebrating the person in the video, thanking him for his diligence in “doing what it takes” to make a great boulder problem others can enjoy. What is interesting is that such a video might actually depict a much greater modification of the natural terrain than what is shown in the DPM video. If it makes sense to treat that acceptable sort of alteration as praiseworthy and wonderful, then it really doesn’t make sense to treat the chipping as absolutely monstrous. It certainly doesn’t make sense to do so on purely environmental grounds, which is what seems to driving a lot of the anger."

Something to consider. But I don't find Jeep and the Access fund paired up odd at all.
DickMcfartin

Ice climber
soewhere over the rainbow....
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:07am PT
Stupid humans can be so disappointing.

Clearly there are similarities between scrubbing and cleaning a route and chipping a route. Imop mostly if you are cut from the same DNA of say Charlie sheen, Lindsy Lowhan, Dick Cheney, John Barnard Wyah the 2nd, Lance Armstrong or any other selfish one way dick head that can talk them self into whatever it is that suits their selfish need for the given moment.

I think good old basic common sense coupled with strong ethical core may be going by the wayside in lue of the all so noble and evolved Kardashian mentality.

Snap out of it people!!!
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:11am PT
Y'alls are getting owned by a self-promoting tool.


There is no such thing as bad publicity. You lose.
DickMcfartin

Ice climber
soewhere over the rainbow....
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:13am PT
Yup in typical NYC fashion.

Wonder if he takes his PR advice from Trump ;)
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:57am PT
Funny- I was searching my old posts for a totally unrelated anchor thread over on NooB.com and came across this Ivan Green thread:

I suspect you're knott quite the "groupie" you were in the good ol' daze? ;-)
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:35am PT
Funny.. Here in 2012 I currently have no idea who Ivan Greene is. I had totally forgotten about him. Evidently I'm not a very good groupie. LOL

Seriously.. I *try* (don't always succeed) to not pass judgement on people I have never met in person, or routes I haven't seen or touched, so I got nothin' on Ivan Green. He's got plenty of people on his case already.

My guess.. he will never chip another hold again.

Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:40am PT
My guess.. he will never chip another hold again.

Somehow I don't think that will happen.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Screenshot from EDELRID's Facebook page...

 <br/>
Excerpt from EDELRID International Facebook page post comments

Excerpt from EDELRID International Facebook page post comments
Credit: Hardman Knott


http://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/sponsoring/athletes/ivan-greene.html
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
I've only met Bill a couple times, and we have enough mutual friends that I consider him good people, but he is wrong here...

A principled environmentalism would make no distinction between, on the one hand, scrubbing off lichen, weeds, flaky or crumbly rock, prying off a loose block with a crowbar, or removing rocks or bushes or even trees to improve a landing on the one hand, and chipping a hold to make something climbable on the other hand. If anything, a serious environmentalist might frown more on the former because it includes the killing of a living part of nature. So I find it bizarre that many climbers strongly condemn the latter activity and yet often actually praise the former activity, all the while insisting on a strong commitment to environmentalism.

The biggest distinction is that rocks don't grow back, ever. Lichens typically reoccupy the cleaned holds within a decade. Plus, they reproduce by asexual fragmentation... so scrubbing lichen is really just an interspecies fukfest.

Trees grow back too, but it is usually illegal to cut down trees on FS land without a permit. If you "need" one cut, may I recommend getting a Christmas Tree permit next December.

Trying to establish an ecological basis for the outrage is silly. Anyone who can't see the ecological impacts of trails, landings, etc is blind. Not to mention the petroleum based foam pads, ropes, cars, etc.

Basically, it boils down to: tread lightly or you jeopardize future access for everyone else... hammers and chisels are not treading lightly. Besides, CREATING holds on a rock you can't climb is weak.




Spare us the "fine line between cleaning and chipping" crap coz. I've developed plenty of areas and it never once crossed my mind to pull out a hammer and chisels. HUGE difference between pulling off a loose flake and repeatedly pounding a chisel into the rock with a sledge hammer.
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Just talked to another Gunks guy that has seen Ivan do this in person. Yeah, it's him, and it has been known about for years. Only now did someone think to video the guy to remove all doubt.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
Well, now the Pope can relax!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Coz and Dingus. you know and I know that I know that you know that the video was not your normal rout cleaning trundeling gig;)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
even I know that!
pelut espania

Big Wall climber
Espania
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
In fact, most routes we all enjoy need some cleaning and yes screw driver and chisels are often used to make the climb something that can be climbed. Desert Shield in JT, was an overhanging wall of frosty, grainy flakes that took me four and a half days to clean. It would have been impossible without the cleaning effort.

Says you mi American dog amigo so nunca come chip and glue in Espania and or see how big and macho man make chipping girls and American glue dogs cry. Viva Espania!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Interesting, there is also a Power of the Choss Compels You thread for people who like to climb on shattered and broken rock for the added challenge ....
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
I wonder how many climber slamming him would ever even attempt a climb of this difficulty.

He ruined a perfectly good circlehead placement. Now, I can't climb it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
It ain't rocket science, there are no extenuating circumstances, comparative rationales dom't hold a drop of water - the dude boulders with a chalk bag and a sledge as normal accoutrements. Anyone who can't figure out that's just flat out f*#king wrong has almost as many issues as Ivan.

It's no different with ten-gallons-of-epoxy Fairfield - they both no doubt consider themselves artists and the stone their personal canvas. It's more a matter of spending way to much time in front of a mirror and reading their own blogs than something as simple as ethics. Unfortunately, it's most likely an incurable condition.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
If you really haven't established climbs, then maybe you're not qualified to judge.

I've developed plenty... and what is in that video is FAR BEYOND ACCEPTABLE. You can talk all you want about the "fine line" but the fact is, he was nowhere near it.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
ten-gallons-of-epoxy Fairfield

Why U don't like climbing Gluefas, broseph?
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