Chipping culprit filmed in NY

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Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:57am PT
Funny- I was searching my old posts for a totally unrelated anchor thread over on NooB.com and came across this Ivan Green thread:

I suspect you're knott quite the "groupie" you were in the good ol' daze? ;-)
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:35am PT
Funny.. Here in 2012 I currently have no idea who Ivan Greene is. I had totally forgotten about him. Evidently I'm not a very good groupie. LOL

Seriously.. I *try* (don't always succeed) to not pass judgement on people I have never met in person, or routes I haven't seen or touched, so I got nothin' on Ivan Green. He's got plenty of people on his case already.

My guess.. he will never chip another hold again.

Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:40am PT
My guess.. he will never chip another hold again.

Somehow I don't think that will happen.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Screenshot from EDELRID's Facebook page...

 <br/>
Excerpt from EDELRID International Facebook page post comments

Excerpt from EDELRID International Facebook page post comments
Credit: Hardman Knott


http://www.edelrid.de/en/sports/sponsoring/athletes/ivan-greene.html
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
I've only met Bill a couple times, and we have enough mutual friends that I consider him good people, but he is wrong here...

A principled environmentalism would make no distinction between, on the one hand, scrubbing off lichen, weeds, flaky or crumbly rock, prying off a loose block with a crowbar, or removing rocks or bushes or even trees to improve a landing on the one hand, and chipping a hold to make something climbable on the other hand. If anything, a serious environmentalist might frown more on the former because it includes the killing of a living part of nature. So I find it bizarre that many climbers strongly condemn the latter activity and yet often actually praise the former activity, all the while insisting on a strong commitment to environmentalism.

The biggest distinction is that rocks don't grow back, ever. Lichens typically reoccupy the cleaned holds within a decade. Plus, they reproduce by asexual fragmentation... so scrubbing lichen is really just an interspecies fukfest.

Trees grow back too, but it is usually illegal to cut down trees on FS land without a permit. If you "need" one cut, may I recommend getting a Christmas Tree permit next December.

Trying to establish an ecological basis for the outrage is silly. Anyone who can't see the ecological impacts of trails, landings, etc is blind. Not to mention the petroleum based foam pads, ropes, cars, etc.

Basically, it boils down to: tread lightly or you jeopardize future access for everyone else... hammers and chisels are not treading lightly. Besides, CREATING holds on a rock you can't climb is weak.




Spare us the "fine line between cleaning and chipping" crap coz. I've developed plenty of areas and it never once crossed my mind to pull out a hammer and chisels. HUGE difference between pulling off a loose flake and repeatedly pounding a chisel into the rock with a sledge hammer.
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Just talked to another Gunks guy that has seen Ivan do this in person. Yeah, it's him, and it has been known about for years. Only now did someone think to video the guy to remove all doubt.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 22, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
Well, now the Pope can relax!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Coz and Dingus. you know and I know that I know that you know that the video was not your normal rout cleaning trundeling gig;)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
even I know that!
pelut espania

Big Wall climber
Espania
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
In fact, most routes we all enjoy need some cleaning and yes screw driver and chisels are often used to make the climb something that can be climbed. Desert Shield in JT, was an overhanging wall of frosty, grainy flakes that took me four and a half days to clean. It would have been impossible without the cleaning effort.

Says you mi American dog amigo so nunca come chip and glue in Espania and or see how big and macho man make chipping girls and American glue dogs cry. Viva Espania!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Interesting, there is also a Power of the Choss Compels You thread for people who like to climb on shattered and broken rock for the added challenge ....
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
I wonder how many climber slamming him would ever even attempt a climb of this difficulty.

He ruined a perfectly good circlehead placement. Now, I can't climb it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
It ain't rocket science, there are no extenuating circumstances, comparative rationales dom't hold a drop of water - the dude boulders with a chalk bag and a sledge as normal accoutrements. Anyone who can't figure out that's just flat out f*#king wrong has almost as many issues as Ivan.

It's no different with ten-gallons-of-epoxy Fairfield - they both no doubt consider themselves artists and the stone their personal canvas. It's more a matter of spending way to much time in front of a mirror and reading their own blogs than something as simple as ethics. Unfortunately, it's most likely an incurable condition.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
If you really haven't established climbs, then maybe you're not qualified to judge.

I've developed plenty... and what is in that video is FAR BEYOND ACCEPTABLE. You can talk all you want about the "fine line" but the fact is, he was nowhere near it.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 22, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
ten-gallons-of-epoxy Fairfield

Why U don't like climbing Gluefas, broseph?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 22, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Coz. I have developed pleanty of routs and am a fair hand with a pry bar. this looks totaly diffent to me than trundeling the big scary stuff and trenching the crumbly crap.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 22, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
From stripper to chipper?

Nilepoc

Big Wall climber
Tx
Feb 22, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
I was there for the strip and streak for peace. Put my camera right the f down. He needs no more publicity I thought. What a tool. I have to admit though i did photograph him and a friend climbing the bank in salt lake with the world map on it. Cool photos I never did anything with.

I feel shame for loosely participating in his attention whoring. Maybe that is one of the reasons I am so pissed about the chipping besides the fact that he is chipping. I hate chipping.

He still has no response to Pm's btw.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 22, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
i did photograph him and a friend climbing the bank in salt lake with the world map on it.

Mugs did that in the 80's (?). I wish I still had that picture... got it from a friend... I think it was in a magazine. If anyone has a copy (of Mugs) I'd be psyched to see it again.
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Feb 22, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Says you mi American dog amigo so nunca come chip and glue in Espania and or see how big and macho man make chipping girls and American glue dogs cry. Viva Espania!

i am glad Pelut is back, i've missed him.

Hey Coz, how come us low grade middling talent climbers aren't allowed to sit in judgement of the guy like everyone else? Hell i know chipping and manufacturing when i see it too!
When you allow only the elite to hold opinions it kind of gives you that one percent-er look.
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