"Suppose the video showed someone doing a lot of the “legitimate” work that often goes into establishing a problem – someone scrubbing lichen, prying off loose blocks with a crowbar, scraping off dirt and flaky rock, excavating underlying boulders to make a better landing and so on. And suppose the video was presented as a tribute to all the hard work that sometimes goes into a making a quality boulder problem. Then people would actually be celebrating the person in the video, thanking him for his diligence in “doing what it takes” to make a great boulder problem others can enjoy. What is interesting is that such a video might actually depict a much greater modification of the natural terrain than what is shown in the DPM video. If it makes sense to treat that acceptable sort of alteration as praiseworthy and wonderful, then it really doesn’t make sense to treat the chipping as absolutely monstrous. It certainly doesn’t make sense to do so on purely environmental grounds, which is what seems to driving a lot of the anger."
Something to consider. But I don't find Jeep and the Access fund paired up odd at all.
Funny.. Here in 2012 I currently have no idea who Ivan Greene is. I had totally forgotten about him. Evidently I'm not a very good groupie. LOL
Seriously.. I *try* (don't always succeed) to not pass judgement on people I have never met in person, or routes I haven't seen or touched, so I got nothin' on Ivan Green. He's got plenty of people on his case already.
I've only met Bill a couple times, and we have enough mutual friends that I consider him good people, but he is wrong here...
A principled environmentalism would make no distinction between, on the one hand, scrubbing off lichen, weeds, flaky or crumbly rock, prying off a loose block with a crowbar, or removing rocks or bushes or even trees to improve a landing on the one hand, and chipping a hold to make something climbable on the other hand. If anything, a serious environmentalist might frown more on the former because it includes the killing of a living part of nature. So I find it bizarre that many climbers strongly condemn the latter activity and yet often actually praise the former activity, all the while insisting on a strong commitment to environmentalism.
The biggest distinction is that rocks don't grow back, ever. Lichens typically reoccupy the cleaned holds within a decade. Plus, they reproduce by asexual fragmentation... so scrubbing lichen is really just an interspecies fukfest.
Trees grow back too, but it is usually illegal to cut down trees on FS land without a permit. If you "need" one cut, may I recommend getting a Christmas Tree permit next December.
Trying to establish an ecological basis for the outrage is silly. Anyone who can't see the ecological impacts of trails, landings, etc is blind. Not to mention the petroleum based foam pads, ropes, cars, etc.
Basically, it boils down to: tread lightly or you jeopardize future access for everyone else... hammers and chisels are not treading lightly. Besides, CREATING holds on a rock you can't climb is weak.
Spare us the "fine line between cleaning and chipping" crap coz. I've developed plenty of areas and it never once crossed my mind to pull out a hammer and chisels. HUGE difference between pulling off a loose flake and repeatedly pounding a chisel into the rock with a sledge hammer.
In fact, most routes we all enjoy need some cleaning and yes screw driver and chisels are often used to make the climb something that can be climbed. Desert Shield in JT, was an overhanging wall of frosty, grainy flakes that took me four and a half days to clean. It would have been impossible without the cleaning effort.
Says you mi American dog amigo so nunca come chip and glue in Espania and or see how big and macho man make chipping girls and American glue dogs cry. Viva Espania!
Interesting, there is also a Power of the Choss Compels You thread for people who like to climb on shattered and broken rock for the added challenge ....
It ain't rocket science, there are no extenuating circumstances, comparative rationales dom't hold a drop of water - the dude boulders with a chalk bag and a sledge as normal accoutrements. Anyone who can't figure out that's just flat out f*#king wrong has almost as many issues as Ivan.
It's no different with ten-gallons-of-epoxy Fairfield - they both no doubt consider themselves artists and the stone their personal canvas. It's more a matter of spending way to much time in front of a mirror and reading their own blogs than something as simple as ethics. Unfortunately, it's most likely an incurable condition.
If you really haven't established climbs, then maybe you're not qualified to judge.
I've developed plenty... and what is in that video is FAR BEYOND ACCEPTABLE. You can talk all you want about the "fine line" but the fact is, he was nowhere near it.
Coz. I have developed pleanty of routs and am a fair hand with a pry bar. this looks totaly diffent to me than trundeling the big scary stuff and trenching the crumbly crap.
I was there for the strip and streak for peace. Put my camera right the f down. He needs no more publicity I thought. What a tool. I have to admit though i did photograph him and a friend climbing the bank in salt lake with the world map on it. Cool photos I never did anything with.
I feel shame for loosely participating in his attention whoring. Maybe that is one of the reasons I am so pissed about the chipping besides the fact that he is chipping. I hate chipping.
Let us know!