Chipping culprit filmed in NY

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Messages 161 - 180 of total 611 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
I have described the pathway to some of the good routes we climb.

In a thread about chipping. If that is not an implicit comparison, what is it?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
It's just a boulder, there's millions of them everywhere. Let the guy glue his hold and call it a V13. It's like taking a moral position about people killing ants.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Nice gloves!!!

There are two reasonable explanations:

1. Hand model
2. Girlfriend protection
splitclimber

climber
Sonoma County
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
amazed by some of the comments here - just posters trolling to get others to bite??

do some of you actually believe what you are posting, that this is acceptable or just no big deal since it occurs in climbing?

i don't just jump on the ethics band wagon, but this seems sooooo wrong, esp. on public land, etc.

lame, lame, lame

does anyone know the name of the boulder? are there other established problems on it?
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Dude needs to invest in better epoxy...
Nilepoc

Big Wall climber
Tx
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Elcapinyoazz,

Next thing, you'll tell me Timy Fairfield is chipping.

Lol,

I confonted him in the 90's over a cup of coffee. I was returning his gas powered ryobi drill that I "found" in a wilderness area in the Sandias in NM. He was bolting a red Camalot sized crack with it. The route went on to become turbo trad a short bolted climb in the Sandias.

Over coffee I asked him about his gluing and chipping practices in Box Canyon and at the Enchanted tower. His most recent accomplishment then was a high number glue up named Child of the Light. (Child of the glue is a more apt name).

His take on it was hey go ahead and write your letter to the mags. I will even pose for a photo with a chisel. He was unashamed and stated that all publicity is good publicity. There was no curing him. Another friend at the time found a stash of Timmy's chisels at box canyon and de-sharpened them on a bench grinder and returned them to Timmy.

Timmy went on to glue up and dig out some limestone Choss in the sandias again in wilderness. I hope he has quit manufacturing routes, but do not have much faith that he has.

While talking to me he gave a critique of his work and said his peers thought his routes weren't altered enough.

Big egos lead to big heads and small actions for even smaller gains. Hopefully with this Ivan incident the world of chipping will be forced to consider their actions more carefully.

Branscomb

Trad climber
Lander, WY
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Whoever it is and whatever is going on in their head, I hope this isn't a glimpse into the future.
Nilepoc

Big Wall climber
Tx
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
What it is, is a glimpse of our past and the present. Only we can change the future.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
Timmy to my partner at Enchanted Tower, 1997:

"Wow, you have huge muscles! We should go out drinking sometime."

My partner was a little confused because his gf was a smoking hot Frenchie... he could only come up with "oh yeah?"

"Yeah! I like to talk sh#t and I could use someone strong like you around."


I thought he was pretty funny the rest of the time we climbed with him. But the chipping is unacceptable.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
It looked like he could have been removing loose flakes in order to try a new roof problem. If it was an unestablished boulder problem that he was going to establish then I imagine it would be wise to remove the stuff that was likely to breakoff. I always thought of chipping as establishing new handholds where they don't exist. He (may) not be quite as quilty as it initially looks.
Nilepoc

Big Wall climber
Tx
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
I always used to say "Timmy is the nicest guy I hate". I am not sure I really hated him but I definitely don't respect him.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
This kind of behavior is just unacceptable in the climbing community.

I thought we learned that from decades past. I naively thought this was at last something that all ST posters could agree on.

Justifying Ivan Greene's behavior by stating that pins have been hammered on El Cap is completely missing the point, and is not relevant to this discussion.

Brushing aside this transgression b/c its not as serious as drone strikes on innocent people, once again, completely misses the point.

I'm sorry that some posters on here are OK with this simply b/c its a boulder and there are millions of them. Besides the obvious ethical problems raised by this chipping, landowners can can (and have) limited access to climbing areas in light of behavior like this.

Climbers have a chance to step up to the plate and show the powers that be that we CAN self-police; and that this is NOT tolerated. NOT at the Gunks or Upstate NY, not in JT, not anywhere.

-


As for the cameraman....well I don't blame him for staying quiet and just filming. Would you risk provoking or incensing someone who is wielding a hammer??

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
All the comparative arguments (and photos) used in this and other threads are just weak beyond measure. I mean, just how bad is chipping and retro bolting compared to war, acts of god, and Bhopal?
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
merchrist,

get off this lame non nondescript bs. I am revealing some history of what goes on before the climb makes it to the guidebook.

Please state the comparison you see--the one you causing your annoyment? Some vague language by you makes for a non-sense posting.

Put up some routes and let's know what you have learned other than what goes on in the gym.
ruppell

climber
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
I just reread the article the Rgold linked on page three. I'll emphasize some words that make it appear that there was more than one person videoing the act. Even if I was alone I would have no problem confronting someone in that situation. It's a pretty rash jump to assume someone who would chip would also attack someone for being called out on it. Either way I'm glad they got proof of who it was.

Recently on a snowy day, the ring of hammer and chisel on stone rang out, and the climbers were able to film a person in the act of altering the rock. What, exactly, they caught on film is debatable. Sometimes, when establishing rock climbs, a dangerous flake is pried loose to prevent injuries to future climbers. Sometimes that loose flake is 'scored' with a chisel so that when it breaks, it leaves a handhold, and sometimes holds are blatantly created with the use of tools.

The local climbers presented the video to DPM with the request that they remain anonymous. "We don't want this to come off as a personal attack," they said. "We've tried speaking with the person and it obviously hasn't had an effect. Our intent isn't malicious, we just want this to stop happening to our boulders."
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
As for the cameraman....well I don't blame him for staying quiet and just filming. Would you risk provoking or incensing someone who is wielding a hammer??

The way he was swinging it I doubt A) that he could even hit me and B) if he did, it wouldn't even welt.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
Reminded by Royal's dictum back in the late Seventies or so:

"Sport climbing is the child that wants to eat its mother"

Chippers have really lost touch
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
Either way I'm glad they got proof of who it was.

Confronting and spraying is just so much internet hearsay compared to the outright effectiveness of the video. Tell Edelrid Ivan is chipping and nothing happens, show them a video of him chipping and sh#t happens.
prickle

Gym climber
globe,az
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
he'd be walking around with that hammer sticking out of his arse if he so much as looked at me wrong.i outweigh him by at least 50 lbs.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Put up some routes and let's know what you have learned other than what goes on in the gym.

I've put up far more bp's than routes... upwards of 400 in the last decade. I never had the need or desire to put up spurt routes... I grew up in SLC, plenty of skilled and motivated people willing to do the work. "Putting up" easy trad is just a matter of wandering around stuffing cams in cracks and not killing my gf with loose rock... and I find that boring as sh#t.


I know what it takes to clean up a bp, and I know it don't take a hammer and chisel... EVER.
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