Chipping culprit filmed in NY

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PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
It looked like he could have been removing loose flakes in order to try a new roof problem. If it was an unestablished boulder problem that he was going to establish then I imagine it would be wise to remove the stuff that was likely to breakoff. I always thought of chipping as establishing new handholds where they don't exist. He (may) not be quite as quilty as it initially looks.
Nilepoc

Big Wall climber
Tx
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
I always used to say "Timmy is the nicest guy I hate". I am not sure I really hated him but I definitely don't respect him.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
This kind of behavior is just unacceptable in the climbing community.

I thought we learned that from decades past. I naively thought this was at last something that all ST posters could agree on.

Justifying Ivan Greene's behavior by stating that pins have been hammered on El Cap is completely missing the point, and is not relevant to this discussion.

Brushing aside this transgression b/c its not as serious as drone strikes on innocent people, once again, completely misses the point.

I'm sorry that some posters on here are OK with this simply b/c its a boulder and there are millions of them. Besides the obvious ethical problems raised by this chipping, landowners can can (and have) limited access to climbing areas in light of behavior like this.

Climbers have a chance to step up to the plate and show the powers that be that we CAN self-police; and that this is NOT tolerated. NOT at the Gunks or Upstate NY, not in JT, not anywhere.

-


As for the cameraman....well I don't blame him for staying quiet and just filming. Would you risk provoking or incensing someone who is wielding a hammer??

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
All the comparative arguments (and photos) used in this and other threads are just weak beyond measure. I mean, just how bad is chipping and retro bolting compared to war, acts of god, and Bhopal?
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
merchrist,

get off this lame non nondescript bs. I am revealing some history of what goes on before the climb makes it to the guidebook.

Please state the comparison you see--the one you causing your annoyment? Some vague language by you makes for a non-sense posting.

Put up some routes and let's know what you have learned other than what goes on in the gym.
ruppell

climber
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
I just reread the article the Rgold linked on page three. I'll emphasize some words that make it appear that there was more than one person videoing the act. Even if I was alone I would have no problem confronting someone in that situation. It's a pretty rash jump to assume someone who would chip would also attack someone for being called out on it. Either way I'm glad they got proof of who it was.

Recently on a snowy day, the ring of hammer and chisel on stone rang out, and the climbers were able to film a person in the act of altering the rock. What, exactly, they caught on film is debatable. Sometimes, when establishing rock climbs, a dangerous flake is pried loose to prevent injuries to future climbers. Sometimes that loose flake is 'scored' with a chisel so that when it breaks, it leaves a handhold, and sometimes holds are blatantly created with the use of tools.

The local climbers presented the video to DPM with the request that they remain anonymous. "We don't want this to come off as a personal attack," they said. "We've tried speaking with the person and it obviously hasn't had an effect. Our intent isn't malicious, we just want this to stop happening to our boulders."
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
As for the cameraman....well I don't blame him for staying quiet and just filming. Would you risk provoking or incensing someone who is wielding a hammer??

The way he was swinging it I doubt A) that he could even hit me and B) if he did, it wouldn't even welt.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
Reminded by Royal's dictum back in the late Seventies or so:

"Sport climbing is the child that wants to eat its mother"

Chippers have really lost touch
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
Either way I'm glad they got proof of who it was.

Confronting and spraying is just so much internet hearsay compared to the outright effectiveness of the video. Tell Edelrid Ivan is chipping and nothing happens, show them a video of him chipping and sh#t happens.
prickle

Gym climber
globe,az
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
he'd be walking around with that hammer sticking out of his arse if he so much as looked at me wrong.i outweigh him by at least 50 lbs.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Put up some routes and let's know what you have learned other than what goes on in the gym.

I've put up far more bp's than routes... upwards of 400 in the last decade. I never had the need or desire to put up spurt routes... I grew up in SLC, plenty of skilled and motivated people willing to do the work. "Putting up" easy trad is just a matter of wandering around stuffing cams in cracks and not killing my gf with loose rock... and I find that boring as sh#t.


I know what it takes to clean up a bp, and I know it don't take a hammer and chisel... EVER.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
The force a hammer and chisel puts on a hold is what, a few dozen times the weight of a fat climber? I could apply the same force he was using to a hundred old school classics at josh and bust off most bomber flakes. Think of funking...

Wes, do you have one of those fancy rigs with a cliffhanger hook on the end of a telescoping pole w/a fatty brush? Typicall all i've seen to bust off fragile edges up high, a taped aid hook.
WBraun

climber
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Watching the video there's beyond no doubt this guy is manufacturing holds.

If one is so stupid to believe some total bullsh!t that there's only cleaning up being done here then you're dreaming.

Cleaning up and manufacturing holds can easily be discerned by the actions of how the tools are being used against the object/s.

There are tools visible being used in the video evidence that point easily beyond "just cleaning up" along with the glue.

"Just cleaning up" is a simple semantics tactic of words to hide behind contrary to the evidence in the video.

The locals obviously have been objecting to this persons actions for some time.

This is why it has been presented by them as evidence of proof.

Whether it's acceptable or not is up to you people since you hold the future of your sport, lifestyle and climbing in your hands .....
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
My rig is pretty simple. I have no metal hook on my telescoping pole, just a clip.



I clip a brush or stick to the end and clean what I can reach. I've only rapped a couple boulders for cleaning purposes.

I usually have a couple areas of interest and visit them when the snow is deep and I can reach the tops... or clean them on the send.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
"Sport climbing is the child that wants to eat its mother"

Thanks, Peter, for that Robbins quote.

A little extreme, I'd say, but right in character with the "Vandals in the Temple" viewpoint.

I'd say it's more like the child that grew up, left home, and doesn't really care what its mother thinks about protection anymore.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
...and so goes around loaded with STDs.
fat-n-sassy

Social climber
San Francity, CA
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
Ok boys.

I'm new to the chipping scene, can someone explain to me:

What's the glue for?

Also, I'm appalled that the gloves have only gotten 4-5 posts. I think we should start another thread so that violation doesn't get lost in this chipping mayhem.
wivanoff

Trad climber
CT
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
What's the glue for?

In case one "cleans" too aggressively...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Has anyone checked the rocks in Central Park lately? They must be taking a real beating.
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Feb 21, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
healyje

central park rocks are about 40% epoxy at this point. not from chipping but from things breaking off under "normal wear and tear". however now that yuki isn't around my guess is that if it breaks off it stays off these days. unless someone else has taken over the task.
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