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BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
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I fired off an email to Edelrid as soon as I saw that.
Every thing I've ever seen or heard of Ivan just spells complete tool.
He and I have several mutual friends on FB and one day my wife asks me who Ivan Greene is, she just received a friend request from some weird looking guy. Pathetically searching through second- hand Facebook friends for females you've never met? Classy....
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
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He says he was cleaning up after someone else's mess. He will have his lawyer release a statement shortly I think.
-Lance
Funny whether a joke or true (I'm hoping for the latter, we'll all stay tuned I'm sure).
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bjj
climber
beyond the sun
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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The statements below assume the following:
1) Holds were being manufactured, and it was not simply cleaning off friable choss or loose flakes / junk that would be pulled off at the wrong time if left as is.
2) It isn't being done in his backyard, on private land with the owner's permission or in a quarry.
3) It is in fact Ivan Greene
Ahem....
What an absolute f**kwad.
I remember this clown from some bouldering vids from back in the late 90's (IIRC). Came off like a complete tool. That stupid ass tattoo on his back tells me all I need to know. It is very similar to what a lot of the posers in the MMA (mixed martial arts) scene have done, along with wearing stupid Affliction style tshirts heavily laden with skulls, pitbulls and barbed wire to try and look like a bad ass. This is a lot easier than actually learning to be a badass through training and hard work.
There is (usually) an inverse relationship between talent / ability and ego / need for validation.
Also, the idea that the person filming is culpable for not running down there to confront him is ludicrous. Putting yourself into what would certainly be a heated exchange with someone holding items capable of easily killing you is the milieu of people with poor critical thinking skills, or as we observe in this thread, keyboard warrior badasses who greatly overestimate themselves.
Finally, the idea of a "slippery slope" from other practices like putting in bolts or the use of non-clean aid to this atrocity is tenuous at best.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
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He will be sent to the Cali central valley to hand pick sh!t out of the fields for 108 days with only water and gruel for punishment
Hey, don't dis honest work, Werner. I earned the money for my first rope, 'biners and pro (well, OK, pitons, so I'm guilty, too) by picking grapes.
I have a hard time judging whether someone is a good or bad person, since I have so many faults myself. I have an easier time judging whether chipping is acceptable or unacceptable. It is not and should not be. When we gained an alternative to widening pin scars, we stopped using pins, by and large. We have always had an alternative to chipping on boulders. Last I checked, there is still no shortage of unknown bouldering territory.
John
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
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Still there...
I posted a link to that on EDELRID's Facebook page and got this response:
Hi David, we've de-listed this page from our main athletes page, but the webmaster informs us it will take some time still to remove the page completely. It seems like you can still find it via Google. Please bear with us.
-as for this hilariously funny quote:
He says he was cleaning up after someone else's mess. He will have his lawyer release a statement shortly I think.
Cool! I was wondering what the epoxy was for...
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Feb 21, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
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merchrist,
No comparisons used here. You are projecting. I have described the pathway to some of the good routes we climb.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 21, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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Couch: It probably comes about from creeping incrementalism where you need to pull off loose flakes, then you need to knock a few off that are wiggling but won't pull off by hand. That's some serious incrementalism when it includes about 300 pounds of rock and explicitly targets chiseling out whole swaths of non-loose crack and dihederal on an existing pitch variation which results in lowering its difficulty a grade. And that's before any retrobolts. Even more 'incrementalist' is the stunningly boldface claim it absolutely, positively did not happen, but then such is the extent of some folks' personal and collective reality distortion field - just like the one seen enveloping Ivan Greene in the video. [Creeping (and creepy)] 'incrementalism' is when you cut the top half off of beautiful little trees that aren't even in the way of any thing just because you can't restrain the urge.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
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I have described the pathway to some of the good routes we climb.
In a thread about chipping. If that is not an implicit comparison, what is it?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
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It's just a boulder, there's millions of them everywhere. Let the guy glue his hold and call it a V13. It's like taking a moral position about people killing ants.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
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Nice gloves!!!
There are two reasonable explanations:
1. Hand model
2. Girlfriend protection
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
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amazed by some of the comments here - just posters trolling to get others to bite??
do some of you actually believe what you are posting, that this is acceptable or just no big deal since it occurs in climbing?
i don't just jump on the ethics band wagon, but this seems sooooo wrong, esp. on public land, etc.
lame, lame, lame
does anyone know the name of the boulder? are there other established problems on it?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
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Dude needs to invest in better epoxy...
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Nilepoc
Big Wall climber
Tx
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz,
Next thing, you'll tell me Timy Fairfield is chipping.
Lol,
I confonted him in the 90's over a cup of coffee. I was returning his gas powered ryobi drill that I "found" in a wilderness area in the Sandias in NM. He was bolting a red Camalot sized crack with it. The route went on to become turbo trad a short bolted climb in the Sandias.
Over coffee I asked him about his gluing and chipping practices in Box Canyon and at the Enchanted tower. His most recent accomplishment then was a high number glue up named Child of the Light. (Child of the glue is a more apt name).
His take on it was hey go ahead and write your letter to the mags. I will even pose for a photo with a chisel. He was unashamed and stated that all publicity is good publicity. There was no curing him. Another friend at the time found a stash of Timmy's chisels at box canyon and de-sharpened them on a bench grinder and returned them to Timmy.
Timmy went on to glue up and dig out some limestone Choss in the sandias again in wilderness. I hope he has quit manufacturing routes, but do not have much faith that he has.
While talking to me he gave a critique of his work and said his peers thought his routes weren't altered enough.
Big egos lead to big heads and small actions for even smaller gains. Hopefully with this Ivan incident the world of chipping will be forced to consider their actions more carefully.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
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Whoever it is and whatever is going on in their head, I hope this isn't a glimpse into the future.
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Nilepoc
Big Wall climber
Tx
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
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What it is, is a glimpse of our past and the present. Only we can change the future.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
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Timmy to my partner at Enchanted Tower, 1997:
"Wow, you have huge muscles! We should go out drinking sometime."
My partner was a little confused because his gf was a smoking hot Frenchie... he could only come up with "oh yeah?"
"Yeah! I like to talk sh#t and I could use someone strong like you around."
I thought he was pretty funny the rest of the time we climbed with him. But the chipping is unacceptable.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
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It looked like he could have been removing loose flakes in order to try a new roof problem. If it was an unestablished boulder problem that he was going to establish then I imagine it would be wise to remove the stuff that was likely to breakoff. I always thought of chipping as establishing new handholds where they don't exist. He (may) not be quite as quilty as it initially looks.
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Nilepoc
Big Wall climber
Tx
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
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I always used to say "Timmy is the nicest guy I hate". I am not sure I really hated him but I definitely don't respect him.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
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This kind of behavior is just unacceptable in the climbing community.
I thought we learned that from decades past. I naively thought this was at last something that all ST posters could agree on.
Justifying Ivan Greene's behavior by stating that pins have been hammered on El Cap is completely missing the point, and is not relevant to this discussion.
Brushing aside this transgression b/c its not as serious as drone strikes on innocent people, once again, completely misses the point.
I'm sorry that some posters on here are OK with this simply b/c its a boulder and there are millions of them. Besides the obvious ethical problems raised by this chipping, landowners can can (and have) limited access to climbing areas in light of behavior like this.
Climbers have a chance to step up to the plate and show the powers that be that we CAN self-police; and that this is NOT tolerated. NOT at the Gunks or Upstate NY, not in JT, not anywhere.
-
As for the cameraman....well I don't blame him for staying quiet and just filming. Would you risk provoking or incensing someone who is wielding a hammer??
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 21, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
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All the comparative arguments (and photos) used in this and other threads are just weak beyond measure. I mean, just how bad is chipping and retro bolting compared to war, acts of god, and Bhopal?
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