just another carp- they are every where. meanwhile,, i can go harvest commercially the chubs they so worry about. And them lobsters too...still havent caught a bass. I used to in the keys though. But then i see in the vid,, its a TRPA thing..
Ill bet those big brown trout LOVE those goldfish..
I wonder how many people i know that have fished with goldfish over the years? Hmmmm I caught a two pound Koi a few years ago. Thankfully it was no where near the TRPA.
This is whats known as a mountain out of a pimple. Those are MOST LIKELY ALL bait fish that were released by careless fisherman at the end of a day. Ive seen that maneuver a thousand times. The temps of tahoe arent going to proper any population of warm water fish to any level that would endanger any fish there. The macks are typically DEEP there as will be balls of bait- or the chubs the TRPA seems to be worried for. I can show you graph tapes with massive amounts of said bait. What they did was ruin a very popular fishing spot and a special one, in the keys. End of story. Those fish were there for more decades than ive been alive.
No, this is what's known as someone who doesn't know jack sh#t about sh#t insisting they understand ecology better than those who have spent their lives studying it.
But whatever, Rong isn't in charge of anything (thank god), so he can continue blathering on and nothing will ever come of his uneducated opinion.
I went to a carp fish fry that featured carp (whitefish) caught in the Boise River back in the 70s. Those people knew what they were doing and it was pretty damn good - have not forgotten.
Defending the track record of the TRPA isnt going to get you anywhere.
The WORST thing to ever be let into the basin,,, T>R>P>A......And wessie, ive spent my life studying bass in particular. Good enough to be in the top 40 pro western fisherman for a few years. Good enough to have trilene sponsors.
MOUNTAIN out of a PIMPLE that has been there longer than the TRPA.
And Brandon, there are some cases of invasive fish being REAL problems. However its seldom the case. At Davis lake, they poisoned it numerous times in an effort to get rid of Northern Pike. Now,, the lake was doing GREAT with lots of LARGE healthy trout, and a thriving population of largemouth in the shallows. I had fished it many times, and specifically for northern yet never even saw one. They were infrequent to say the least. BUT because a shocking produced a few, the HAD to be a problem.. Against the wishes of the locals, residents, business folk and sportsman, they went ahead and poisoned the whole shitaroo. TWICE...At Cal tax payers dollars.
Hey wessie,, can you tell me the native fish of lake tahoe,, you know,, the ones they are worried about?? Just species general. will be fine..And approx populations?
Not so stupid, Ron. They eventually got it right. with community approval. The northern pike in Davis Lake was cleared out in 2007, with thousands of gallons of rotenone in a drawn down lake.
You forgot to mention that. Not surprising considering your goobermint hate.
As far as I know, the LCT is the only threatened native species in LT.
Now, you tell me what "MOST LIKELY" means... hint, it doesn't mean you just pulled it out of your ass because it sounds truthy and supports what you already believe, despite studies that show otherwise.
Yes, they were introduced. They've been in the lake for 50 or so years, but they don't seem to be hurting anything, so they are left alone. Plus they feed the bears.
F*#king retards all of you. We're weeks from the TRPA dissolving after the f*#ktards of Tahoe (aka friends of Tahoe) and of course the f*#king Sierra Club retards filed suit last week to stop the new TRPA development plan.
While told by both Barbra Fienstein and Harry doucchebag Reid not to. The end result will be a big f*#k you by the TRPA which will dissolve and there will be no rules as to development.
Yeah the Kokanee are planted and so are douche bags like Wes and his bro bras on the west shore the same bunch of sh#t bags complaining who all own second homes or primary homes around the lake.
So Wes you love the lake so much move away from the lake tear down the shack you live in and make an effort to tell the rest of those douche bags around the lake to,do the same.
Tahoe while easy on the eye is a pile of sh#t lake with house casinos and f*#king retard,enviromnazis living all around it complaining about development but only after their houses were built ,
I look forward to a huge fire on the west shore one day where all those house are well destroyed and not rebuilt.
Non-native trout have occupied nearly every habitat in all Lake Tahoe tributaries. Native fish,
like the mountain whitefish and Tui chub, historically known to occur in Trout Creek, were not
found anywhere during the 2010 field season, indicating a significant impact on their
distribution. It is known that introductions of non-native species have greatly reduced
populations of native forage fish within Lake Tahoe. Establishing a foundation of information
and continued monitoring will explore the impact of non-native fish on native non-game fish.
The native climax species was the Lahaton Cuthroat trout which was extirpated from the lake in the 1930s.
Invasives include Kokanee salmon, Rainbow trout, brown trout, brook trout, mackinaw as the PRIME predator fish. THOSE populations are thousands of times greater than any warm water fish that leave the keys to wander in near by shallows.
THOSE populations are thousands of times greater than any warm water fish that leave the keys to wander in near by shallows.
Ron, glad to see you are doing some reading. Tell me, where do the LCT spawn? What time of year? And what species are hanging around those areas during that time... eating all the new fry?
Also, as a side note, the economy of the basin is added to quite a lot from the guided fishing on the lake. Stores, gas stations and motels all benefit from the fishing for those non-native salmanoides. The keys attract fisherman from all over the west- just for the pleasure and oddity of catching largemouth bass there. The crappie were some of the best eating fish ive ever had from there.
As far as i know, one of the main locations the LCT has been active in spawning would be Glen Allen creek.. Around 1980, plans were made for re-introduction of the lahaton cutthroat ans stocking programs have gone on since- but not every season as the availability of fish arent always there.
Cutthroats will feed on their young, and any other fish they can get in their mouths. Ive wathced that at marlette lake.
Now there may be occasional warm water fish that feed upon fry as well- but ONLY in those shallows that warm enough for actual feeding activity by warm water fish.
Ndow has also tried planting sterile trout in tahoe, so they dont spawn. However,,these fish tend to grow rapidly as all they do is swim and EAT.
Just like the "wipers" in Lahaton that have now grown to nearly 30 pounds. They are eating machines.
So far all the grief those few warm water fishies receive, it is only a scratch off the real sources of native bait species declines. That and the fact the lake has warmed slightly- and of course that is most noticeable in water five feet deep or less. So the non game species are making movements to be in their preferred temperatures.
Plantings of salmanoides way back when was the start of this all. The decimation of LCTs from the 1800s to around 1930 were a huge mistake. Introducing sterile eating machines arent the answer either.
And this from the "About lake tahoe" website.
Lake Tahoe - Big Blue is best fished from a big boat. There are a number of fishing charters available as well as plenty of rental boats. Additionally, shore fishing is good at certain places most of which are on the east shore. Cave Rock is among the most accessible of these. Lake Tahoe has Brown and Rainbow Trout as well as the mighty deep dwelling Mackinaw and the land-locked Kokanee Salmon. Lahontan Cutthroat Trout are no longer viable since their young are predated by the Mackinaw, which is not a native fish.
edit: fyi, bass are notorious of feeding on their own. After spawning, its the smaller males that guard nests. Big females will cruise them swallowing as many as they can every pass. And as far as i know, no spawning has been seen outside the keys from these warm water fish. The fish seen in studies were only around for a two month period for the most, then vanished from those other areas. (The warmest two months of the year-July and Aug.)
Another lake that has been "messed" with by F&G in Cali is THAT lk at the bottom of Sonora pass.
A long time known brook trout producing lake- spring fed with abundant fresh water shrimp. It was THE perfect brookie habitat and produced fish over 8 lbs routinely. Yet, with the shrimp, the brookies were only vulnerable to lures during the start and end of the fishing season. It was hard to catch them during the summer months. So the "studies" were done, and they introduced a sub of Cut throats into the small alpine lake for a "summer" fishery. Cut throat being very varacious on the offspring of the brookies. Now, that lake isnt nearly what it used to be, and those GIANT brookies are far and few between now.
Can we not mention Kirman or Poole. LOL I don't know whether introducing cutties is the real issue or not. That lake used to receive almost zero fishing pressure. Now it's packed every time I head up there. I've only been fishing it for the past 8 years so I can only imagine how good it was back in the day. I personally like the stocking of the cutties and hope that they will one day offer fish as large if not larger than the brooks. I'm sure you know this but keep in mind those brookies wouldn't be there either if someone hadn't stocked them. Do you know any of the history on when and who introduced them? Either way those lakes up in that area are great places to fish.
Well, as far as i know they were milk bottle plants in the 30s and 40s.
I fished it mostly in the 70s. It was a secret really.. Then in the mid eighties, it appeared in the FISH SNIFFER magazine! Things went to hell after that.
Now, that lake isnt nearly what it used to be, and those GIANT brookies are far and few between now.
Clearly due to management and not the fact that the human population of CA has doubled. We'd still have huge fishes is it weren't for that meddling guberment.
Maybe overfished by ignorant as#@&%es who didn;t catch and release? You know the ones, they like to eat wild stuff, but it is more likely to be thrown out after being wrapped in newspaper in their freezer for a year.
atchafalatio,,youve no idea of what we released there. And each of those fish in the pics that weren't released were consumed usually the following night. Light oil, battered in crushed ritz crackers flour, , pepper and garlic and a pinch of lowerys. Sometimes an added drip of lemon juice was added as they cooked.
And Atcha,, ive fished most of that area- ran up the old river past TRACY once with a guy in a tournament. Had to stay on the gas to avoid shallow sand bars. The fish up in that current were STRONG! A three felt like a ten. One of the most white knuckle rides ive been on in the delta. I once saw a small bayliner crest the bow wave of an outgoing tanker in the main channel, and it broke in half upon "re-entry". Tossed the two guys like skippin stones across the water. They were just bruised up a bit..The boat,,well it was out there for a long whole after that.
Thanks, hard to believe, but we caught about 30 to 40 that day from 3 to 12 pounds, all on flyrods. Every cast was another pig. Birds were diving on baitballs. The arms were worked. The only thing that stopped us was darkness. Those things eat 3 to 4 pound fish!
They ARE fighters. I always hit whites first thing during stockton tourneys- usually good for a few nice fish,, unless the strippers are there- then its hold on to yur jig rod. then we would boogie outta there! Never have fished much just for the strippers. We have kept one or two for eating though. But the large mouth always had a "twang" to em from the delta.
The bass have made a huge comeback from the eighties size and populations. It was hard to fish back then. Or hard to FIND fish. The place is LOADED with structure and cover .. I can only guess as to how many have gotten totally LOST out in that mass o water ways...? The tiny hidden islands with the ancient cabins are cool- as is the ancient ship ruins scattered all over.
This is what happens when you flush fish down the toilet. No but, seriously? This is news...Giant goldfish live everywhere. I've seen some pretty big goldfish in ponds and marshes. I've also seen huge turtles and other invasive species that are thriving. I used to raise big goldfish in aquaponic systems. They are great fish to use but not really as a food source. Talapia other fish are better but goldfish are really easy to take care of.
Some of you don't seem to realize the importance of protecting Lake Tahoe... as the LARGEST and CLEANEST source of water for thousands of miles... the largest lake in the Sierra... and uphill of major cities and agricultural areas... like the Central Valley, you know, the area that supplies the country with the majority of fruits and vegetables. It ain't just a fishing spot... it is one of the most important natural resources in the west.
If you love it so much asshat then pack your sh#t and get your car and your trash and everything that goes with all you retards up there and get the hell out
It's the biggest lie ever and what Tahoe needs is less of you people and more bulldozers and restoration of your removed piles of house.
See Wes for those of that have lived in this area for generations the problem has always been people like you who's show up and never leave. You pretend to care so you can bilk some grant fora check or get a phd in some sort of bullshit associated with preserving the lake and in the end you get very little done other than some bullshit report on how all the cars and sand are polluting the lake.
No sh#t it took you a few hundred K of research to figure out the problem is you and your car and your wood burning stoves and your answer is to put in more infrastructure to catch the dirty runoff you create by just being there.
Save Tahoe by tearing down your houses and leaving.
Tahoe doesn't drain into the central valley last I checked. I should introduce you to a hydrologist friend of mine, he can explain how that sh#t works in layperson's terms!
Tahoe drains to the north and east... does not supply water to valley agriculture. Echo lakes has water diverted to the west, that would naturally flow into Tahoe. So the cleanliness of Tahoe doesn't affect California agriculture. That said, keeping Tahoe clean should be a priority. The TRPA doesn't really care about the lake. It cares about itself and the fees it collects period. The head of the TRPA makes about 100,000 dollars a year... a big salary in this area. The officials of this organization are not elected officials, but reign like they;re royalty. Sure there are good members of that org but they're very few. Dan
I get a kick out of people telling me which way Lake Tahoe water flows... lolz for sure. As if natural drainage networks mean anything for future water distribution in CA. But can any of you tell me which way the money flows? Hint, lots of federal land being sold to private developers down around Vegas. Lots of money from those sales being pumped into scientific research to keep Tahoe blue. I'm sure when Vegas gets desperate for water they will make us an offer we can't refuse... and if there was any connection to Vegas.
I'm glad TRPA exists. I can't imagine what a shithole this place would have become if development went unchecked since its formation in 1969. I wonder what the cultural and political scene around the Lake was like back then.
You could just as well thank the Forest Service Fire crews. If the Showers fire or any of the other South Shore fires had not been suppressed the fuels would not have built up like they did.
But yes, I thank TRPA (and the bro bra douche bag who started the fire) VERY much for the Angora fire. I'm sorry for those who lost their worldly possessions, but that is part of the price you pay for living in the mountains. It opened some eyes and burned some areas that were in desperate need. I'd like to see more fires in the Basin actually.
Wow, really Ron... someone predicted a forest fire would occur within 30 years... ASTONISHING INSIGHT!
Well wes,, the T R P A back then said we were full of it when we told them their stands were at the zone of immanent mortality. We gave them all the proof in the world, and they rejected us and the plans we had already done in region four. And with great success. They said those stands were "natural" and would stay that way. - Thats their words bub. Heard em myself in the mid 80s again..When again they rejected our strong suggestions- and the beetles were already hard at work. And since all you type of people have moved in every where around Tahoe,, let burn policies can HARDLY be the norm. Its peoples homes and lives at stake now. And Wes, consider that YOUR part of THAT problem.
but back to lake Tahoe fishing heres a TYPICAL report from a fishing site:
Tahoe Keys Lagoon Fly Fishing
Safari-Theme Home
Enjoy superb fishing on America's largest alpine lake with salmon (kokanee), rainbow trout, mackinaw (lake trout), brown trout , brook trout and cut throats.
Tahoe Keys lagoons are filled with bass, crappie, trout and even enormous goldfish. Fishing from a small boat or from a private dock gives you the chance of catching a Keys Grand Slam (rainbow, brown, crappie, large mouth and bluegill).
March, April, and May seem to be the best months especially during the evening with a light to moderate breeze. With a breeze creating cover, the fish move around more and appear to be safe from osprey, chasing minnows and crayfish. Mornings are good as well if there is a breeze or cloud cover.
Good flies for trout are wooly bugger and lake chub with a full sinking line. A crawdad pattern also works well from time to time. To catch bass, a surface popper is best once the water warms up. At any other time, a good size streamer will work wonders stripped fast along the docks.
Crappie go after brightly colored bead-headed wooly buggers with a full sinking line. The back sloughs tend to be best for the crappie and bluegill. The bass seem to be spread out all over the Keys with quite a few of them near the Marina. And don't be surprised if you hook a catfish as well.
Kids can catch quite a bit from the docks. Best to use an indicator and a small nymph. Have them cast out and then slowly retrieve the indicator and fly keeping slight movement at all times. When the indicator goes down, set the hook and bring it in!
Lake Tahoe has numerous fishing charter companies that can arrange and outfit your fishing.
edit: Kinda funny that this is just now a "researcher discovery" when good ol fish folks have known this for a loooonggg time.
OMG, you are so insightful. I never realized I was part of the problem. My oh my, what ever will I do now?
The only logical solution seems to be stop studying the natural processes of the place, revert back to that groundbreaking used tire based restoration standards of the 70s, and let the Bay area folks just enjoy their weekend vacation spots in peace.
I'm so glad you people figured out everything that needed to be figured out decades ago. If only the dumb scientists would have just taken your word for it.
As soon as I learn Spanish I will move down to Carson. Thanks Ron.
(Yes, TRPA is a pain in the ass. So are taxes, stop signs, and all those other pesky rools we have to live by. It just isn't fair! I'd rather have a lake full of algae and motor oil than have to deal with their crap!)
even NDOW knows all about the keys Brandon.. Have for decades now. I really dont understand any of it,, but its hardly news. But it seems ,, in this case,, the "researchers" should have just asked the fisherman whats up with the lake. They "discovered" nothing new..Any goldfish lucky enough to spawn shall see their bright orange gold progeny eaten as fast as you could blink. Especially in Tahoe waters. Thats fisherman knowledge though.. Bay area folks used to often bring up feeder goldies for bait. They would dump any unused at the end of those trips. Thats ol fisherman knowledge too. The fortunate ones make it to a larger size. But they are still far and few between when considering the overall surface acre feet of the lake.
The KEYS has always been a special fishing spot. I was catching bass there in 1976 when i knew someone that lived there- had a nice dock and we would suck suds and catch fish. Those fish are excellent in taste- and as beautiful as any of their species. None of this was ever a secret either, as the keys was almost as popular as the main lake at times.
Ron, man the fuk up and email that cute little researcher. Ask HER why they are making the claims they are making. Maybe the news will interview you in a piece that exposes the cover up... Goldfish Gate. You can tell them how you know everything about everything from timber management to aquatic ecology and you learned it all using your species identifying fish finder.
Or... you can just sit there and act like you already know everything and everyone else is a dipsh#t... it works for me.
The KEYS has always been a special fishing spot.
No it hasn't. It didn't even exit until the 60s. Half a century is nowhere near ALWAYS.
Invasive fish, such as the goldfish, are gathered and removed from the water. Ngai said the program will look to filet invasive fish and donate them to local food banks.
And Maybe i WILL e mail channel 8 and give em a fishing report or two from the past lmao! Ask them if they ever actually research anything?
Wes,, you tell those youngster braniacs to just pick out the oldest curmudgeonest looking guy at the doc in the early am,, and have a chat with HIM to find out shyt.. It will save tax payers countless hours of "research"...
Well,, the "scientists" didnt "discover" ANYTHING now did they..
Fisherman knew of those for decades.
pffffff..But then these book smart youth have an ability to ignore the obvious- especially when considering resources. I worked with MANY such youngsters in the USFS.. And it appears, "aint nuthin changed"...
Did Ngai claim she "discovered" anything? Or did the news? Are you passing judgement on a researcher you have never met based on her research you will never read? Then applying that to every other researcher out there? Sounds kinda hedgey to me.
Face it, if you knew half the sh#t you claim to know you would be making a positive contribution to the world. Instead you are stuffing dead things and blaming all the worlds problems on whatever source you disagree with.
A group of researchers from Davis, the University of Nevada at Reno, and the fish and wildlife departments of both California and Nevada were the first to study the presence of goldfish in Lake Tahoe, beginning an annual survey in 2006.
They knew they were there before the study, otherwise they would not have developed a study to look at the impacts. Do you already know what impacts they have on the native fish, algae, water quality, etc? If so, contact her... I'm sure she could find some money in her budget for useful information.
Ive MADE my contributions wes,, and then some. And i still do. How ever,, YES there are all manner of GOLDFISH DISCOVERED titles in the news, which suggests the discovery of said bait. The news is wrong again,, shocking,, i know..
Wes, did you know bluegill, crappie and bass and catfish ALL eat algae?
Hey Ron ,those were nice brookies you showed earlier.Did you know that they are an invasive species in your western habitat,introduced from that government you dislike.just sayin,those er big brookies
Depends where your at. I was in line at the gun show with 10,000 other folks about half had assualt weapons with them to sell. Peaceful as could be, that line of folks..
edit: Wilbeer,, Yes i know,, brookies were planted, in jugs in backpacks,, from planes and more. A lot of those went in waters vacant of other fish.
Kirman being one of those. It had shrimp, then the brookies were added and a viable trophy fishery born.
But to try and blame anything on a few wandering goldfish or bass in Tahoe other than the keys is hilarious. And the keys was a great fishery of its own. Too bad they have to mess with it. Many an youngster was introduced to catching a nice large mouth there. There are six other strains of very predatory fish in tahoe in abundance.
I wonder if their decline has anything to do with the 150 foot drop in lake level over the last few decades. Nah, probably has something to do with Obama and poor management from TRPA.
Good thing we aren't studying the impacts of upstream water allocation. Stoopid government thinking they know how to balance the water needs of society and the environment. Really the best action for conservation is no action at all.
yeah wes,, like they DIDNT YEARS ago.. Never mind the LACK of snow nowdays.
Never mind there is a Paiute Res right upstream that HASNT had a die off.
Never mind that is the end of that river, therefore will always be the first to go in drying times.
Never mind Yerington pumps GALLONS into that river daily through the Ft Churchill power plant and Mason Valley Hatchery and pond systems from ground water pumps.
Want the rest of the story or just go ahead with your attempt at condescending quirks.
edit: Wilbeer,,MOST of my trout are released.. I prefer warm waters, like crappie, bluegill, yellow perch small mouth and largemouth in that order.
Ive kept a few to barbq,, fo sho.. NOTHING like fresh brookies sizzling away over a small fire -smoke wafting lazily into yur nose,, the scent of garlic and cooking fish...
edit: Hey wes,, from the CAL Fishing regs:
(a) In Donner, Fallen Leaf and Tahoe lakes Lahontan redside, tui chub, Tahoe sucker, Lahontan speckled dace, mountain sucker and Paiute sculpin may be used only in the same lake where taken.
Nev:
In the waters of Lake Tahoe and its
tributaries located in Carson City, Douglas and
Washoe Counties: only Lahontan redside
(shiner), tui chub, Tahoe sucker, mountain sucker, piaute sculpin, speckled dace may be used as bait, and only when taken from tributaries or waters lake Tahoe.
General Regulations Concerning Bait
Here's a little story about the trpa. I've been a primary home owner for 17 years...gotta great deal, otherwise I would be on the street. I live in a low lying area, aspens, willows abound. Obviously, but to a lesser degree than the keys, the entire area should not been developed. Anyway, since I wanted to protect my property I built french drain to steer any water from my house, in addition to avoid having urban runoff from invading my property, and ruining my foundation. I Effectively installed a mandated (by the TRPA at amuch latter date) a B.M.P. also Aka Best Management Practice waaaaay before it was even an acronym. I applied for a permit to pave my driveway... no deal "that's considered coverage". Several years latter it's a mandated law to have my driveway paved to allieviate the problem of suspended solids from ruining the clarity of the lake. The TRPA doesn't hastle EdgeWood or Cal Trans the real culprits that are ruining the lake, maybe cuz they have alot of money. Maybe after a few millon generations some of the warm water species that live in the keys and other shallow micro climates may make some actual inroads to extending their range. Hopefully The whiners as well as the last of our retched species will have been long gone.
Damn you TRPA! They've even altered the data, making it look like 1924-1978 were even drier!
Never mind that is the end of that river, therefore will always be the first to go in drying times.
Is that so? The first to go? Really? Because people who study hydrology know drought susceptibility is usually inversely correlated with contributing area. Sorry... "the bigger the watershed area, the less susceptible to drought." A terminal lake has the largest contributing area in the basin... by definition. It has to do with the fact that water flows down hill, draining high elevations first and pooling in lower elevations. I'm not saying it won't dry out first, I'm just saying the fact that it is at the end of the river is NOT the reason.
Want the rest of the story...
nah, I'm not much for fairy tales.
The TRPA doesn't hastle EdgeWood or Cal Trans the real culprits
Ndot uses water soluble oils on their roads. They use salt/sand and salt brines on their roads. The sewer vent between parking and the Cave used to GAG ya if it was warm.. I imagine it still does.
Then take eight million people pissing in it every summer along the shallows dumping their left overs and dead beers, and left over bait fish..
And the fact its warming up like everything else and yeah cycle time is coming close. (Close being who knows how many years). Tahoe does, but it aint sayin.
I've made it a point to balance my edumukashun with job experience. I have 12 years of ed and 8 years of professional experience. By the time I drop dead in 4 years I should be even stephen. Getting a job will be beautiful.
Well,,ok,, let me relate a short story.. A grad school masters on Forestry was assigned to the Timber dept to do some studies of art regens we had done the previous year.
She comes in and tells me the plantation we planted just last spring has visible dwarf mistletoe. I said really? R U SURE? Yep-- saw it plainly!
So i explain to the GRAD student that it takes a min of 2 years for any visible signs of that infection. She says but i SAW IT! She was determined, and even told me how i WASNT as highly educated as herself and she resented me questioning her about it.
I said,, ooooook fine,, let us go see this not even 1 yr old plantation with mistletoe. We get there, having to listen to her explain how and why she is more highly educated for over an hour. She scurries over and points to the ground --SEE! I TOLD YOU! I look down to see what is probably a fifteen year old banzai jeffrey that was indeed infested with mistletoe, yet looked NOTHING like the two year old one stem plantaion trees that have been in the ground less than a year., nor did it have the scalp she insisted was there around the tree.
I then explained that it wasnt even in the border of the plantation and was a stunted banzai jeffrey in the neighborhood of fifteen. She ARGUED THE AGE with me..True story.Said it couldnt be that old. I sighed,, shrugged my shoulders, went over to my rig, and brought back my cruiser axe- and with a chop, started counting rings with a magnifier. I was off a wee,, it was 20. The GOOD part of the story was we had a nice quiet ride back...
I once argued that 'stats are meaningless and can be made to read whatever one wants' ....
to a PhD in math, on the internet.
I often make myself look as stupid as I feel, that way. Open mouth, insert foot.
Know what? I can't tell you how much I respect those who put themselves through advanced higher education. There are MANY such individuals on this board. I salute them all.
Christine Ngai of the University of Nevada, Reno, was among the researchers who found the first goldfish during a survey of invasive fish in the lake.
quote from the news story upthread wes.. That simply is not correct in any way...
And i have indeed contributed wes, each and every time i could. I was part of some very good things too.
The worst part is you refuse to budge in your uneducated OPINIONS. As far as I can tell, one of two things are going on with you:
1) You know quite a bit. In which case, you are lazy sod who contributes very little of your potential to this world. What a shame.
2) What you think you know is in fact only what you believe and it is a fuzzy reflection of reality. In which case your contributions to the world of taxidermy are appreciated.
...among the researchers who found the first goldfish during a survey of invasive fish in the lake.
It doesn't say ever, does it? My buddy helped with the proposal that got their funding. He was always spewing about the huge gold fish in the keys. They obviously knew about them because they wrote a fuking grant to study them!
The asian carp invasion in Illinois and Indiana is for real. The Corps is trying like hell to keep them out of the Great Lakes but it's only a matter of time.
One good way to solve a lot of problems at Lake Tahoe is to raze the Keys and return that area as best we can to its natural state. What a fuggin' disaster.
DMT I love it in Tahoe, no complaints, just responding to someone who has'nt really s-s-s-tarted his life,... aka "gradual school". I'm from a family of educated people' and my fathers (pomposity) a fifty year practicing radiologist (sp?) (i'm not, only a bachelors in Biology). pales in comparison to the arrogance (a more youthful form) someone who calls people stupid. I ain't sayin' names. To the nameless, are you a TPRA employee? Also the TRPA has'nt done a very good job at allowing smaller homes to become giant messes, Just sayin. YRADK
Ron.. you are quoting a news story to prove that the researchers are stupid. Think about it. a news story. How often do news stories get it wrong? Eh.. Like Wes said, they wrote a grant proposal to study the problem. so obviously they knew about the goldfish in advance of the study. So when the news report said first goldfish found, they either got it wrong, or they didn't mean the first goldfish ever found, but the first one found during that study.
Ok chim chim, cheers. Its too bad, the thread topic is fascinating, shame its become what it has and I'm sorry for my own noise. Can't help myself some times :-)
DMT, I've more than sampled your buzz. NN dimeth style style. Love is the sh#t, we're all one. I know that fer sur. Peace, pot, microdot. Dan, Frogs get no love!
The problem with that Ricky D is what I call the "I know an old lady who swallowed a fly". You know that little ditty?
Pretty soon you swallow a spider to catch the fly, and swallow a bird to catch the spider... and soon enough the horse kills the lake.
What kills the fuzzy white sh#t?
Once we intervene, can it ever be undone? I truly do no think so, the genie is out of the bottle. Sadly, its we 'umans that's the problem. What will be our spider?
One good way to solve a lot of problems at Lake Tahoe is to raze the Keys and return that area as best we can to its natural state. What a fuggin' disaster.
A fisherman caught a gold fish. "If you let me go, I will grant you three wishes, but your neighbor will get twice as much" says the fish.
"OK, I want a ferrari" says the fisherman.
He gets a ferrari, but his neighbor gets two.
"I want a beautiful house"
Sure enough, he gets one and his neighbor gets two.
"Damn! I wish I lose one of my testicles!"
dear Wes, please inform the study group of a few things. Bass in the keys simply sink into the thickest cover available for the winter- tules, cat tails and any other aquatic weeds can be used mostly for balance in a hibernation mode. There they will lay in a dormancy of a sort, only taking in a small meal every few days as their metabolism is all but shut down by water temps and ice overs. Just like they do in mason valley NV as it too freezes over yet the fish remain year after year. This is one of the questions stumping the "team" it seems from a news report i just saw. As long as there is oxygen the fish will survive until the water warms into the low 50s and their activity picks up . They will spawn any where from 55 to 65 plus degrees- depending on the water and clarity. In any given pond largemouth will tend to eat a good 70% of their own offspring before they reach four inches in length. That from an 8 year study i did on LMB, crappie and bluegill at Mason valley . As for the fish they have lost radio contact with, look in either a mackinaw or a pelicans body. Perhaps a heron gutted it, or a Fisherman caught it and filleted the bass. Theres thirty pound macks in the lake- the same ones that ended the LCTs in the lake after being planted in the 1800s. This news report claimed a "new number one predator" when talking about bass, which made me laugh.. MACKS are the numba UNO..Followed closely by browns..Only in the keys are bass a predator- other wise they probably wonder why in the hell they wandered out of the keys to begin with!
Credit: intarweb
Tahoe mackinaw^^^
credt- intarweb
Credit: Ron Anderson
Tahoe Browns^^^swimming monsters in Tahoe. They eat two pound fish.
Dear Ron, I appreciate your experience based OPINION, but I ain't your bitch. You've seen it, you splain it to them... or stop whining about how scientists are wrong about everything.
arent you the one whining about not helping mankind to your potential? Here you are a resident and seem not to be willing to approach your "colleagues" with info for them.. tsk tsk..
Your sh#t ain't science bud, it is YOUR opinion and YOUR experience. It is up to you to explain it. Man up! Don't let the fact that she is a little hottie intimidate you.
If you have any questions about the study methods, statistics, etc. I'd be happy to translate those for you... but no way I'm going to try to translate your subjective experience, presented as universal truth, to other scientists.
And no, I'm not the one whining about wasting money on science when they could just ask some old dude... or whining about TRPA... or whining about a news article claiming a discovery when clearly others had already made enough observations to justify getting a grant for more in depth research... that's you. I whine about your insistence that you know what you are talking about yet consistently misinterpret 90% of the information... which is fine, as long as you aren't the one calling the shots regarding resource management.
That's silly Ron... there ain't enough money to fund such studies in other lakes... just in Tahoe... you know, the LARGEST alpine lake in N.America... with over 120 million acre feet of fresh water... the most critical natural resource in the west... with 15x the amount of land that the entire Central Valley Water Project irrigates... over 3x the municipal water needs of the entire state of California. Stoopid scientists studying irrelevant sh#t.
Ron... do you HAVE to play the same role in every single f*#king thread?
(ignorant fundamentalist conservative)
We have a non-native beetle destroying our californian forests, it isn't a bad idea to study the impact of introducing non-native wildlife that run amok.
GD,, not sure what yur problem is ,, However i was fighting the beetle problems while you were in diapers. And,, it was the TRPA that let those beeteles FEAST in tahoe.
And your runnin amuk statement reflects the news reports of this- with titles like "NEW THREAT TO TAHOE".. Goldfish are hardly new and IN NO WAY a threat to tahoe. Im simply trying to set the record straight. If you google it, there will be pages of the same story - with all quite damming titles- even made the natl news. And a mountain from a pimple is born..
Ron, you're a f*#king brick wall. You're right and you always know it. If you'd listen to what people were saying to you sometimes, you might not be arguing with people as often. Did you ever think of that?
Of course not, because anything you say is correct, and should be taken as gospel.
The world doesn't work that way, dude.
Wes is just as bad, but at least the guy can cite references and stuff. And admits that he's simply stirring the pot.
You though, nobody can tell you anything without you feeling the need to argue a point. There are two types of people, in my opinion. There are those who see problems, and there are those who see solutions. You appear to be the former, rather than the latter.
Brandon you dont know me nor do you know what ive done in my times. But your attitude is typical for your age. Ill say that much..YOU and WES are guys that have little OR NO respect for anyone that has come before you. DO i really give a crap one about that--nope..
But for you to pompously call me someone that doesnt see the problem/solution is much like telling the submarine it will be fine with a screen door. The trouble is,, youth NEVER listens to age and experience.
im willing to bet dimes to donuts Ron has done more for the ecology round here than any other posters here in this thread. And that also gives me a right to an opinion.
and crank,, since its you with SLT in your avatar,, i do believe,, as far as Tahoe is concerned,, YOUR the invasive species here.
couple of those bad boys would make sand harbor a very exciting place to watch! If we can get NDOT to use a bit more salt brine up there- it might just work! daaana dannna dana dana dana dana dana!
seems Wiki agrees with my "non science" opinions as well...
. During winter, goldfish become sluggish, stop eating and often stay on the bottom of the pond. This is normal; they become active again in the spring.
No one said you didn't have a right to an opinion. Everyone's got one.
That reminds me of the other thing we've all got and of my morning sh#t this am. There is now a pancake turd resting on Peavine with a little dog nibble out of one side. I should probably shower wipe at some point. And no doggy kisses for a while either.
Considering this thread that ^^^ is a successful contribution!
shot my first deer off of the P when it was way out of town..And there was no such thing as lemon valley etc...I dont remember if i made dudu on it though, but ive SEEN THINGS maaaaa-aaaannn!.
Bet you dont know about an old ghost town on its western flank by the name of "Port Aurthur"..?
Read about that town when I was looking up hikes and such. Lotsa abandoned mines and interesting trails up Peavine. The fishing is terrible though.
Still have yet to do a hike up to the summit. Shoot! This is the weekend I was planning to do that! Now that I'm clambering on the rocks once more, my hiking goals seem like hiking goals again.
I was stationed in Dog Valley for a few years in the circus..traveled every path and road in the place. Know the history behind most ALL the old ruins , cabin sites , and ancient look out ruins.. It was a bitchin place- and the old buildings, crew quarters and shops( long since torn down) were built by the Oriental folks who were interned there during WW11..
They interned them here too? Only one I've been to is San Francisco's Angel Island. Yeah, I've been enjoying the mountain too, been trail running and hiking on the sweet single track MTB trails up there.
Reno has a lot of opportunity people overlook. I guess the run down tackiness of downtown and the casino bizz underwhelms the outdoor outlook.
Back at it. Seconded WML's lead of OULD up there at the Fords the other day. In typical Woodfords consensus (something we've discussed before) reports have it at 5.10a to 5.10d. It still felt hard to me, but I got it clean on the follow!
Yup,, it was a smaller camp, but all the buildings were made by them, and made WELL! They tore them down in the mid eighties which was not only sad but stupid. The HUGE barn and shop they had built was perfect. The crew quarters and office were also well built- right on the edge of the meadow in the nw corner. There are huge grinding rocks there as well from the Piautes and washoes - even the very ancient martis tribe was there in force long ago. The place is loaded with artifacts. And special spots like crystal peak..
Seriously Ron, man up and write a letter. Tell those stoopid scientists what they are missing!
I'm not a fish person anymore and I have never fished in Lake Tahoe. Back in 5th grade my favorite shirt read "Wold's Greatest Fisherman." Yes, even back then I KNEW I was the best at everything I tried! I learned to fly fish at 5 (you should have seen the rig we came up with!) and I tied flies every night with my pa, but there ain't much diversity in Utah trout creeks... book, rainbow, German brown... some cutthroats in some of the reservoirs... caught a few bass, bluegill, perch in some of the warmer southern lakes.. but sitting on a boat was boring as shit! We went fishing at least every other weekend when the weather allowed and in the summer we would do 5 day backpacking trips living primarily off of fish. Turns out, I'm allergic to fish. What I thought was exhaustion from a day of hiking miles on the rivers was just mild(?) anaphylaxis. My fishing career ended after my second emergency room visit when I was 11... but I digress.
Anyway, I'm a scientist now. Science requires answering testable hypothesis. You have some in your rants about how much more you know about the world than everyone else, but they need to be teased out so they make sense and none of them have been tested with proper methods. You might be able to get those dumb scientists to test them for you with a simple letter. Maybe they will bestow you with an honorary degree... you could take it to the shooting range and impress all your buddies.. by blowing it to bits!
Here's a start (remember, scientists like numbers, so use them when you can):
Dear ignorant researchers (you can play with that until it accurately conveys your message of indignation),
I have recently seen news reports about warm water fish invading Lake Tahoe. I have been fishing Lake Tahoe for (number) years and I can assure you warm water fish, including gold fish, have been there for at least (number) years. I have known fishermen to use gold fish as bait for at least (number) years, often discarding the remaining fish into the lake at the end of the day. This seems like a far more likely source of these invasive fish than "emptying aquariums."
From the news reports (insert the actual news report if you can... that's called "referencing your source") it appears you are stumped by the behavior of bass during the colder winter months. From my experience bass in the keys simply sink into the thickest cover available for the winter- tules, cat tails and any other aquatic weeds can be used mostly for balance in a hibernation mode. There they will lay in a dormancy of a sort, only taking in a small meal every few days as their metabolism is all but shut down by water temps and ice overs. Just like they do in mason valley NV as it too freezes over yet the fish remain year after year. (they can test this)
As long as there is oxygen the fish will survive until the water warms into the low 50s and their activity picks up. Based on an 8 year study i did on LMB, crappie and bluegill at Mason valley (again, cite where they can find details of this study so they can go back and look at what you actually did), they will spawn any where from 55 to 65 plus degrees- depending on the water and clarity. In any given pond largemouth will tend to eat a good 70% of their own offspring before they reach four inches in length. (they can test this, if they haven't already... I think they probably have, but I'm sure they would love to read about your 8 year study)
As for the fish you have lost radio contact with, look in either a mackinaw or a pelicans body. Perhaps a heron gutted it, or a Fisherman caught it and filleted the bass. Theres thirty pound macks in the lake- the same ones that ended the LCTs in the lake after being planted in the 1800s. You can easily test this hypothesis by slaughtering them all until you find the transmitters.
This news report (cite it) claimed a "new number one predator" when talking about bass, which made me laugh.. since MACKS are the numba UNO..Followed closely by browns..Only in the keys are bass a predator- other wise you probably wonder why in the hell they wandered out of the keys to begin with! (this is also testable, but I suspect if they made the claim, especially in any scientific article/report/conference, they have the data to back it up. if the claim was made by the news story, proceeded by "possible" or "potential" or similar word then talk to the news folks about that.)
We will have to work on the last bit as it won't make much sense to anyone sober... much less a scientists, regardless of how many drinks they've had.
I like pointing out when Ron is being an obstinate old goat... but I don't like ruining other people's threads. Especially Brandon's.. he seems like such a nice YOUNG fella.
Uh HUH... The latest clarity study revealed today that Tahoe is clearer TODAY,, than in has been in 22 years.. Nearly seventy five feet of clarity..
But,,, but,,,, all these gold fishies and bassies poopin in da lake are supposed to be so phosphorus as to make the clarity decline through added algae growth..(yet they EAT algae)
22 years,, the best clarity now. Hmmmmmmm( scratches head)
But but,,,what does THAT mean??? (picks nose)
Could it be,, that the number 22 is also around the time they claim these fish became a problem????
Could it be,, these nare-do-well fishies are actually HELPING the clarity of Tahoe?
Cuz since they been around, its the BEST CLARITY in 22 years..
Thanks bassies, bluegills and carps.. Thanks crawdadies - keep up the good work..;-)
And of course, with added clarity comes added temperature- through sun penetration = movement of fish, and minnows- or changes in patterns.
edit: And isnt all these studies, attempting to "blame" clarity problems in Tahoe on a few wandering warm water species sounding even more ridiculous at this juncture? Isnt the idea of eradicating the keys of its treasured fish a bit questionable at this juncture?
They planted grass carp at Mason valley years ago to fight the encroachment of aquatic veggies..WHA??
Yes,, Tahoe now be clearer than the last 22 years . Any studies with more than a single brain cell should really wonder about the fact that these invasive additions may just be a help, not a hindrance.
And isnt all these studies, attempting to "blame" clarity problems in Tahoe on a few wandering warm water species sounding even more ridiculous at this juncture? Isnt the idea of eradicating the keys of its treasured fish a bit questionable at this juncture?
Fish finders are NOT species identifying as such .. Only fisherman can do the id- either by experience ( as to how the fish are aligned with structure, or by simply FISHING to see what they catch). Things considered when looking for fish are temperatures, thermoclines, structure and clarity as well as time of year .(spawn -post spawn,pre-spawn, summer or winter.) Fisherman know what their quarry likes, and when. Those put together narrow a search any any given body of water. Hope that explains a thing or two wes.
Ive sat over fish constantly in my signal,, dropped a jig right down to them as i watched if fall on the graph, and caught that fish. I knew what it was before i lowered the jig, due to how and where it was holding, by experience of fifty years of chasing fish.
edit: Wes,, that IS the news and what those reports are saying. It was suggested by the young Dr that these should be eradicated upon sight.
They arent part of ANY problem,, not the bait fish, not the clarity or any thing else. Thank the TRPA for a LARGE WASTE of yur tax dollars, again...
I've had the buckeftful of crawdads before in crawdad country. I guess if you've got nothing better to do they're alright. I'm not really into spending a bunch of time cracking bug shells open though.
its suprising some cat food conglomerate hasnt bought a food cart vendor and capitalized on this given what poor grasp of what good or fresh mean to your typical pedestrian anymore
Let us know!