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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Feb 11, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
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Too bad, now there will be more people, more regulations, more trash, more construction/developments (aka "improvements"), probably more expensive...sorry I never made it there yet, but now I have less desire just because it's a national park, it's just that much more of a PITA....but I'm sure I'll still go and enjoy the hell out of it ;)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Feb 11, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
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If you were expecting flames, why post it up?
The hardest part of this is telling all my non-climbing friends and family how this wasn't really in the best interest of the Monument, but done in the best interest of the business community around it.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Feb 11, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
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Brad is gonna have to redo his ENTIRE guidebook... now it's all crap!
;)
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Feb 11, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
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The hardest part of this is telling all my non-climbing friends and family how this wasn't really in the best interest of the Monument, but done in the best interest of the business community around it.
I don't really understand the differences between a monument and a park, what's the main idea? How does it benefit businesses locally?
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
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'If you were expecting flames, why post it up?'
I remembered what other people said on the subject when it came up on the other thread and I think it should be talked about further because some of the concerns are valid about how Pinnacles will change with the new designation.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Feb 11, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
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dark magus, check Mucci's thread. I think the brand recognition point is made there, just like Jebus alludes to.
labrat, copy that.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Feb 11, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
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The european tour-buses are gonna be descending on PNP like a plague of locusts.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Feb 11, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
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Jesus Christ I forgot about the euros....
Knuckle ridge here we come!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 11, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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Yeah, there are some condors, tarantulas and rattlesnakes, and even some rock climbing for locals......but a National Park? State Park would be more like it.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Feb 11, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
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And there's talk in the papers that the NPS is going to take a huge
budget cut this year already. They can't afford to maintain
what they've got now.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Feb 11, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
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Three comments:
1. I honestly don't think "park" status will make any noticeable difference at any level at all. There are times when Pinns is empty/abandoned and there are times when it is an indescribable zoo. I don't see this changing.
2. I am literally outraged that they'd do this ceremony today in private. Is "congressman" Farr afraid of the public? Or afraid of the outdoors-community public? Or is this his private little enclave. I note that a reception was held afterward at a golf course. I think he's a Republican, but he'd be better described as a communist-aparachnik-type-tool. It's all there just for he and his cronies (and yes, II was invited - through FoP). IMHO that's not the American way;
3. Tom, if my guidebook is "now... all crap!" then there must have been a time when it wasn't crap. Ha ha ha ha, I gotcha buddy: trapped into admitting the the book is good (used to be good?). Actually, Miwuksurfer posted a great photo on the earlier thread on the book's obsolescence. Of note too: I did just correct the new SPH book (it mentions Pinns at one point due to a similarity of its rock to one formation in our high county). It was really weird to type "park" after Pinnacles.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Feb 11, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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Does this mean that the "age of consent" in the new Pinnacles National Park is now 16 years old? Are you violating the Mann Act if you bring an underage girl to Pinnacles for "immoral purposes", or does Federal Law trump State Law in this case?
All youth leaders must know the truth! Awaiting clarification . . .
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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mtnyoung, Farr is a Democrat. He is also the same guy who is pushing an initiative to have the NPS take jurisdiction over the Giant Sequoia Nat Monument, I.E. The Needles and surroundings. If he succeeds at that kiss open camping, Mtn biking on trails, snowmobiling, hunting and a host of other activities people enjoy there goodbye.
I've been looking at Farr for a while. His strategy is clear, and all you have to do is follow the money. He takes up causes which are dear to his Santa Cruz constituents to get generous financial support. From their armchairs and salons in Santa Cruz, these people can imagine how much better it will be if the NPS runs Giant Sequoia and all those people who go up there and have fun can just be better regulated.
Is "congressman" Farr afraid of the public? Or afraid of the outdoors-community public?
Yes he is. His lies will not stand to any scrutiny but he pushes them anyway. For example the NFS had to go in and clean out a bunch of dangerous hanging snags in the Trail of 100 Giants (that or close it due to the hazards) and Farr's people went on the warpath saying the NFS had authorized illegal harvesting of Giant Sequoia's. The truth is the old snags had to go, and the NFS saved all of us who pay taxes some $ by letting a private company take the stuff out at no cost and make what they could from it. I saw the before and after, there was no harm done.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Just back from the ceremony and the reception. Given how I received my invitation to the ceremony, I was under the impression that it was private. I don't know how the other attendees were notified, but I got an E-mail from the Monument(at the time) staff and was asked to RSVP by a specified date. That seems like a pretty private invite to me.
It really might have been a private ceremony, but there were almost 500 attendees so maybe it wasn't private. I just don't know. I apologize if any comments I made in this or other forums gave the impression that it was private. BTW, most of the non-government attendees were from the neighboring area (ranchers and residents of the local towns).
I did get in some rebolting before the ceremony.
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YosemiteSteve
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:19am PT
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Yeah, there are some condors, tarantulas and rattlesnakes, and even some rock climbing for locals......but a National Park? State Park would be more like it.
I've spent weeks there, explored most of the park and think it's an awesome spot, but it always felt like a really nice state park more than a Nat'l Monument to me.
How many National Parks have one lane roads leading to them? There won't be any tour buses on the West Side for quite a while.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:22am PT
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How many National Parks have one lane roads leading to them?
Exactly. To quote Edward Abbey from Desert Solitaire... "When does the construction begin?"
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:24am PT
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Thanks for the insight Ksolem. He sounds like a plain politician (meant in the worst sense of the word - and yes, there are good ones).
Bruce, thanks for attending on behalf of climbers, it doesn't sound quite as private as I'd feared. And thanks (again!) for the rebolting.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:25am PT
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Does this mean that the "age of consent" in the new Pinnacles National Park is now 16 years old? Are you violating the Mann Act if you bring an underage girl to Pinnacles for "immoral purposes", or does Federal Law trump State Law in this case?
All youth leaders must know the truth! Awaiting clarification . . .
Lmao! Moreskitz nails it!
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