POPE resigns Now who do I follow on Twitter?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 201 - 220 of total 234 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
I don't expect you'll explain the real reason for this long term impassioned defense of the catholic church, now will you jennie?


No...

But if Ivan the Terrible-Chipper turns out to be a Catholic Priest...I may go round the Merry-go-round a few times for Wes' sake :-)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Lol cheers!

DMT
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
Did Sullly post ?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
I hear Ivan Greene has a lot of new followers. Give that a shot....
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
Sully did post. Then DMT was a jerk... what a jerk.

Here you go Jennie...

Molesters look to Catholic employers because hiring is less stringent than at public schools. My college track coach (I went to a Catholic college) was molesting our top runner since she was thirteen. He went from Catholic school to Catholic school coaching girls teams. I testified against the bastard who was found guilty in a civil case. Last year he was coaching kids in Indiana. Because of a google search by some parent that turned up the court case from so many years ago, the guy was fired.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
Thanks, Wes.

I wish Sullly would rejoin ST...she has many friends, here.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
I hear Ivan Greene has a lot of new followers. Give that a shot....


Mothers are going to stop naming their boys Ivan

Ivan the muderous Tzar of Russia...Ivan Boesky the stock trader who stole millions on Wall St...Ivan (Marchenko) the Terrible who destroyed thousands at Treblinka death camp...

Now THIS ??
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
Did Sullly post ?

Who?

DMT
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 22, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Pope resigned same day he received report about gay sex ring extortion etc.

Take this job and shove it, lol.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 2, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
The only reason I think the Moron church is (marginally) better than the catholic church... if you can't get your eternal truths right the first time, just tweak them as you go... revelation is a wonderful thang


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55930173-78/church-lds-changes-mormon.html.csp

"The Bible and the Book of Mormon teach that monogamy is God’s standard for marriage unless He declares otherwise (see 2 Samuel 12:7–8 and Jacob 2:27, 30). Following a revelation to Joseph Smith, the practice of plural marriage was instituted among Church members in the early 1840s (see section 132). From the 1860s to the 1880s, the United States government passed laws to make this religious practice illegal. These laws were eventually upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. After receiving revelation, President Wilford Woodruff issued the following Manifesto, which was accepted by the Church as authoritative and binding on October 6, 1890. This led to the end of the practice of plural marriage in the Church. "
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 2, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Religious organizations can be like discriminatory country clubs...If you belong to a specific church then one has the potential to be rewarded with employment and monetary gain much like a god old boys club..When religions move in and monopolize a community , non-members suddenly become descriminated against....Rumor has it that the Mormon Church is infiltrating the eastern sierra via Mammoth Mountain and other public agencies....If true , i find this repulsive and perverse...What does the free market have to do with spiritualism and or religion....?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Mar 2, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
Katie Holmes leaves Tom and Scientology to join Catholic church.....

col126.mail.live.com/

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 2, 2013 - 09:09pm PT

Welcome back, Sullly

...been a whit bit disappointed seeing customary posters decamp and venture away from ST.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Mar 2, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
I remember the guitar masses and liturgical dances. Folk group at 9:30 mass in hopes of keeping young people engaged in the church. We had such a blast in our little group. Different time and place. Quite a change from the Latin masses when I was little.

I haven't checked this thread in a while - not loving the personal accusations hurled. Must have felt my name come up!

Now to get back to practicing the music for next week's mass. I play once a month while two of our musicians are snow birding it in Phoenix. I play keyboards. The guitar playing dude clearly leftover from 1965 needs some help, but I haven't played since college. I know that the people in my church are angels as they haven't lynched me. Four months of practice can't hide the 34 year break in reading or playing music. So "SAve Your People, O Lord" from my assault on their eardrums.

Hoping for an inspired selection from the conclave.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
by Thomas Doyle | Mar. 2, 2013

VIEWPOINT

Way back in 2004, in the early days of the seemingly endless struggle for justice by the victims of several priests from Los Angeles, I had a conversation with one of the attorneys who represented several of these men and women. He said, "By the time this is over we are going to find out just how much Roger Mahony's cardinal hat is worth." I suspect that neither of us realized that this was truly a prophetic statement. In the end, the cost was calculated in dollars, trust, respect and faith.
The cost must also include the loss of truth.

The media responses to the final order to disclose all the files of predator priests and descriptions of the 10-year saga that preceded the court's decision on Jan. 31 do not come close to telling the full story of the nightmare that led up to that day. The last major act, Archbishop Jose Gomez's meaningless censure of Mahony and Mahony's whining retort on his blog, is all about them and not about the real core of this almost incredible decade of events. At the heart of it all are the victims of Los Angeles priests, several hundred men and women. Yet the legal battle that went on and on not only overlooked them but continued to heap pain on their already scarred souls.

The media could not possibly recount the massive toll this took on so many people. The price of Mahony's red hat is certainly steep in dollars. He retained an army of expensive lawyers to defend his intentional mishandling of reports of sexual abuse, and then to create legal roadblocks to the disclosure of the culprits' files. The real cost of his hat was in people.

There were 508 victim/survivors as plaintiffs in the cases that eventually were settled in 2007 for $660 million. They had been put through agony during the months and years they were manipulated, lied to and revictimized before any of them went to court. Then the first phase of the nightmare began.

The settlement process was long, tedious and so byzantine that no one could possibly describe it with any accuracy. All the while, the lawyers retained by the cardinal were doing their utmost to prolong anything resembling a just solution. When the bishops' cheerleaders throughout the country accuse the victims' lawyers of being greedy, they should take another look at the dozens of attorneys who made up Mahony's brigade, all of whom were high-priced and none of whom worked pro bono for even an hour. Whenever the cardinal appeared for a deposition or meeting involving the cases, at least six and often 10 lawyers accompanied him. Who paid the legal fees? The "people of God" of the Los Angeles archdiocese. Who else?

How many of these people of God could have benefitted from the money diverted to the lawyers and to the public relations firm as well? We will never know.

The process took its toll not only on the victims but on their lawyers, all of whom were working on contingency, which meant they were looking at financial doom if the whole venture fell through. They worked far above and beyond what was required for what they earned. Some were so disgusted with the never-ending antics of the church in court and at the mediation table that they left the practice of law when it was all over. A number who had at one time been practicing Catholics lost all respect and trust in the institutional church. One lawyer spoke up at a gathering after the settlement and said, "I don't believe in God anymore." This man had not only represented victims in Los Angeles and elsewhere for years, but he had provided for many the emotional and spiritual support so essential after their experiences with the church. He told me once that he had to make 70 cross-country plane trips to Los Angeles for the case.

As part of the 2007 settlement, the archdiocese agreed to disclose the files of the perpetrators. The ink was not dry on the settlement before the cardinal launched what would become a seemingly endless series of legal objections and procedural delays that at one point went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The core of Mahony's legal claim to prevent the disclosure of what he had already agreed to was the idea that all communications between a priest and his bishop are privileged in the sense that they cannot be disclosed without violating the First Amendment. He and his legal crew based this on what they called the "formation privilege." Priests are always in formation and their bishop is like their father, guiding and teaching them along the way, or so their story goes.

The Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office asked me to write a declaration in support of their request to get the files. I did and in it I presented documentary evidence that the "formation privilege" was a fiction of the cardinal's imagination with no basis in canon law, theology, church history or custom. The archdiocese lost. Naturally it appealed, and I became one of its targets. A significant part of its opposing brief was not a serious challenge to the content of my declaration but a detailed, invasive personal attack on my character, credentials and motivation. It got them nowhere; a special master overruled just about every objection lodged against the declaration.

From there the cardinal's appeal went to the California Supreme Court where, on July 25, 2005, it was again denied. Mahony and his lawyers appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. On April 17, 2006, the Supreme Court refused to review the lower courts, hence their rulings stood.

That battle involved the files of two priests. One would expect the cardinal and his team to get the point, but they did not. The fight continued until this January. Even then, with final defeat looking them in the eye, the cardinal's lawyers planned yet another strategy for yet another postponement and more time to spin, twist and delay. It was not to be. On Jan. 31, the judge ordered the trove of about 30,000 pages of documents released and that they had to show the names of the cardinal and his aides.

Shortly thereafter it was discovered that the archdiocese had released only around 12,000 pages and that many of those had the names of church officials blacked out, contrary to the judge's order. The public response was swift. The cardinal's lead counsel, Michael Hennigan, said he had no idea why the documents were missing, and promised more would be forth coming. More spin and roadblock right up to the wire!

The saga is not over and probably never will be. The damage extends beyond the victims, their families and the key players in the legal debacle, to the church itself. The cardinal, in his self-serving obsession to first shortchange the victims and then to protect himself and the archdiocesan administration from the exposure of their despicable actions in sacrificing the innocence of children for the clerical image, has severely damaged any possibility of healing. This nearly decade-long nightmare has plunged the hierarchy's barely existing credibility into a tailspin.

From the papacy on down, the Los Angeles abuse history is marked only by narcissistic efforts to save a terminally shattered image. There is little doubt that Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessor knew the score in the archdiocese. Unconfirmed reports say Vatican representatives were in on the settlement negotiations. After all, $660 million is not small potatoes even to the Vatican.

How much is the cardinal's hat worth and who paid the bill? In the end the dollar costs are astronomical but pale by comparison to the costs incurred by the people of God who have paid the price of this colossal betrayal with their faith.

[Thomas Doyle is a Dominican priest, canon lawyer, addictions therapist and longtime advocate for clergy sex abuse victims. He worked as a consultant to lawyers representing abuse victims suing the Los Angeles archdiocese.]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A newspaper known for unflinching coverage of the Catholic church scandal was rebuked by a bishop in its own backyard after calling for his ouster in a battle that illustrates tensions between U.S. bishops and groups that call themselves Catholic but aren't sanctioned by the church.

The National Catholic Reporter, an independent Kansas City, Mo.-based weekly, called for Bishop Robert Finn's removal or resignation in September, after he was convicted of failing to report suspected child abuse.
John M

climber
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Its hard to even fathom... And the wolves still guard the henhouse. Thanks for posting that stuff Ken.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 13, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
White smoke a few minutes ago
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 13, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
False alarm, they are just taking a break, smoking a bowl
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Mar 13, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Will the new guy bring the church into at least the 20th Century?
Messages 201 - 220 of total 234 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews