Joshua Tree Vandalism

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Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 9, 2013 - 12:49am PT
http://thesunrunner.com/2013/02/08/vandalism-forces-emergency-closure-to-barker-dam-in-joshua-tree-national-park
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 9, 2013 - 01:08am PT
Wow- weird. They don't really describe the nature of the "vandalism" . I guess they sometimes don't want to give people ideas.

People suck BTW.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2013 - 03:08am PT
"Keswick says that the Dam, which backs up a significant lake during wet seasons, has a patinated surface on its upstream side, into which visitors apparently began to carve graffiti sometime last fall. "Our guess is that once the first people did it, sometime in October, it served as an attractive nuisance and people decided it was the thing to do."


People really do suck.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Feb 9, 2013 - 08:13am PT
I wonder where people get the idea that it's okay to go carving your name (and other acts of graffit) in national parks?

I mean, it's not like the U.S. government endorses carving in the wilderness and leaving your mark.

Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
portland, Maine
Feb 9, 2013 - 09:33am PT
In order to waste more of our tax dollars. They should cross check the names on the wall with camp site registrations and bust the pukes that did this
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 9, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Wow- that a lot of dumb-ass chicken scratch. People are so stupid. Way to go Julio '13 and friends. Couldn't just piss on a rock like the rest of the dumb animals roaming the earth? Now I can't work on my crumbling proj over on Rat Rock. ;)

Really though.. I support anything the park service thinks it needs to do. They've got enough headaches without having to deal with a graffiti fad in a million square miles of tempting rock surfaces. I'm not sure how they plan to "repair" the dam though.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 9, 2013 - 10:19am PT
The other day I went with two others to check some graffiti that had been reported in Rattlesnake Canyon. When we got to the spot mentioned, we found older stuff as well, dating back to 1992, and about 4 other sites with "big boulder" graffiti - meaning the tags were a good 4 foot tall and more, taking up the entire face of the boulders and in very dark colors.

The person will be working with park admin to set up a clean up day. But maybe the park ought consider spending some tax funds on interpretive signs located in parking lots and campgrounds, as in images of the graffiti with text saying that carvings, paint, chopping wood, and such will get you a fine of whatever hundred dollars. Fines doubled for leaving TP- TRIPLED if it is "poop TP"...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2013 - 10:21am PT
"Regardless of how you vote, support the efforts of the National Park employees."

For the most part, I completely agree.


SLR, that picture/comment is nothing more than an argument-inciting false equivalency.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 9, 2013 - 10:29am PT
Leave 'em alone.

Later on we can make a whole new national monument out of the graffiti.










gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
Feb 9, 2013 - 10:30am PT
this has started to happen at Horsetooth Reservoir. Namely on the Bolt Wall.

I wish the rangers there would do something worthwhile--like find a way to prevent kids from carving their names into the boulders--instead of just patrolling the parking lot ticketing people who are PARKED LEGALLY (like myself).
Fuggin idiots...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 9, 2013 - 10:46am PT
At least it ain't like Angels Landing, where you have to pick blank spots left precariously perched atop sweeping buttresses. Every once in a while a naughty boy scout with a knife takes a tumble...
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2013 - 11:18am PT
SLR, give it a break.

But maybe the park ought consider spending some tax funds on interpretive signs located in parking lots and campgrounds, as in images of the graffiti with text saying that carvings, paint, chopping wood, and such will get you a fine of whatever hundred dollars. Fines doubled for leaving TP- TRIPLED if it is "poop TP"...

Happiegrrrl,
Unfortunately, I think the perps will ignore any signs, and probably vandalize them
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 9, 2013 - 11:26am PT
People who have no compunction about scratching into 100-year old structures and spray-painting everything in sight really don't give a rat's ass about signage telling them not to. The people targeted by the signs are, by nature, the as#@&%es. It just gives those people more incentive to do the opposite of whatever they are being told NOT to do.

I'm not really sure what the solution is. I'm always pushing the hire-a-sniper angle, but prohibiting access altogether is the park service's only (sensible) option.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 9, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Yeah well I think we should get to the bottom of who made this:


into this:


and how much did that cost and why is it still open to the public after such defacement?
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 9, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Yeah Kris.. I've always wondered about that myself. Some misguided manager's idea of "preservation" is my guess but.. yeesh. What the hell were they thinking?
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2013 - 11:59am PT
NPS feeble attempt at preserving adobe
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
I was waiting for someone to post that up.

Yeah, the NPS makes some questionable calls sometimes, but most of the time, the intent is good. It would seem that if there was as much demonstrated, collegial effort in the stewardship of our public lands as there is peanut-gallery, ankle-biting forum sniping, we'd all be the better for it.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 9, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
NPS feeble attempt at preserving adobe

It wasn't adobe, it was brick and mortar. It wasn't built by Native Americans, as the first sign would imply. It was a homestead, Ryan Ranch.

Now it's stucco. Same as all those KB homes in Palmdale & LandCancer.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Feb 9, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
SLR, that picture/comment is nothing more than an argument-inciting false equivalency.

Let me guess - you're a park service ranger?
SofCookay

climber
Feb 9, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Some of the graffiti in Rattlesnake Canyon:





There's more, larger ones further up the canyon, including names written with a sharpie in the rock. They're all located above the waterfall.

Truly pathetic and sad.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 9, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
I hiked through Rattlesnake Canyon a few days ago, and I was appalled to see the tagging up there. And the trash. People can be such pigs...
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Feb 9, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
So the trail to streetcar/gunsmoke is still open?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 9, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Looks like it is. From the article linked in the OP:

Physical access to the dam will be closed from 130 feet upstream to 180 feet downstream of the dam to protect it from continued damage. The closure, which does not include any portion of the popular Barker Dam Trail...
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Feb 9, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
These types of vandals are probably the same kids in school who could barely put a pencil to paper and scribble incoherent sentences but they suddenly get an urge to write something in stone. Unbelievable.


Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 9, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Just to add something on a brighter note, residents of Joshua Tree way back before any two week limits were around, left their marks on the rocks as well...


If you are one of the few people who knows where this is, don't disclose the location please...

I'll just say it's out of reach of modern day taggers.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 9, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
Perhaps true, but not if we can clean them away now.

Similarly, during the Facelift we are told not to disturb trash which appears to be 50 years old or more. That doesn't mean we should leave the plastic water bottles and chip bags we find, which we know are recent....

Bad Climber

climber
Feb 9, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Anyone been to High Desert/Horseman's Center lately? Tons of graffiti and some a-holes used it for a paint ball battle. Frekin' idiots!

BAd
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 10, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
The upstream side of the dam with all the graffiti would be inaccessible if the park service fixed the leak that developed a couple of years ago in the base of the dam.

All it would take is a few hours and a couple of sacks of hydraulic cement, but the claim is a full engineering study would be needed to prove its seismic safety. Even though the lower portion has stood since 1900, survived plenty of large earthquakes, 112 years of summer monsoons and there's nothing but yuccas and sand down stream.

Another brilliant example of your Federal bureaucracy at work.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
"Another brilliant example of your Federal bureaucracy at work."

Yeah, that stoopid Dam and the rest of the Park would be faaaaar better off in private, corporate hands.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 10, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
The best preserved part of the park IS in private hands.

The neighbors next door deeded their place over to the feds and now it looks like this.


Wonder if they would have done that if they knew this was what would happen?

I guess since it has the imprimatur of the Federal government poor stewardship is then just fine.

Another fine example here.

http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/story/Explosive-Fed-Mandate-Killing-Thousands-of-Red/xj8T4zPamkOGc8fuT40W_Q.cspx
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
TGT, do you know what a false equivalency is?

Equivocating the state of a privately-owned property that's probably owned by an individual with plenty of $ with a piece of public land that has precious little funding due to constant budget whittling by Repugs....that's a pretty good example of one.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Feb 10, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
When you say prohibiting access altogether, Justthemaid, do you mean no one can go onto the land?

If so, there must be a better way. Why allow the few to ruin it for everyone?
It's so not right to bann everyone because a few blow it.

Do you think way back the various members of the tribes were for or against petroglyph's and pictographs? Never thought about that before, but maybe that's why many were done in caves and hidden places. lynne

Epic E

Big Wall climber
CA
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
This is a cool thread. A bunch of old men circle jerking each other over scratches in the rocks. Average out the last time any of you guys have nailed a chick and its well over a year for sure.
OR

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/photos/16/73/288798_22409_L.jpg

Wow, graffiti on a shitty manmade structure that should not be there in the first place. Hey how about we leave it there and in 600 years it will be its own historical site of hieroglyphs.
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:38pm PT

Lame! come on, really?!?!

maybe it's the wine but I think of a certain movie clip.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TSsS-mB6c


"it woulda been worth him doin' it just so I coulda caught him"




justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
When you say prohibiting access altogether, Justthemaid, do you mean no one can go onto the land?

If so, there must be a better way. Why allow the few to ruin it for everyone?
It's so not right to bann everyone because a few blow it.


No,... I don't mean that at all. To clarify.. I think access to specific areas (especially historic ones) that are prone to vandalism should be limited or prohibited if the public refuses to respect them. I never said that access to the entire park should be closed. I agree.. that would be stupid.

Example: The park service "closed [the dam]from 130 feet upstream to 180 feet downstream of the dam to protect it from continued damage." .

The public can still hike the regular trails and they don't need access to the dam to enjoy a day in the desert, so I think it was a sensible closure while they decide what to do.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Or, two letters in the middle of a five letter word
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
SoftKookay and Kat(if I recall her name correctly - she works at Nomads) are working with Bernadette to coordinate a Clean Up Day. The ranger we talked to at Indian Cove that day said the maintenance guys do such work when it is in campgrounds and similar, but it generally would not be their jobs to go that far out to do clean up.

Consider that the workers are already stretched as thin as the TP in the Hidden Valley campground potties. I think it is reasonable that this sort of clean up would be a Volunteers project.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
Call Bernadette and ask her what is in the plans - or Kat at Nomads, who contacted Bernadette about those very graffiti pieces.

I don't think the NPS wants people just going on their own, since it is chemicals used to remove. Apparently they have some biodegradable stuff available.
FreeCoffee

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Feb 27, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Allied Climbers of San Diego has offered to help clean up the graffiti in Rattlesnake Canyon. A volunteer day will be arranged once the area has been cleared by the park's Cultural Department. I'll be sure to post the details.

Some spray painted initials were also found in the Hobbit Hole.

Meanwhile, come plant some plants at Hall of Horrors on Saturday, March 30. American Alpine Club, Thresh Hold Climbing Gym, and Friends of Josh are making a day and evening out of it. Coffee, bagels, plants, rocks, pizza, and Matt Segal.

Thank you very much.

Bernadette Regan
JTree Climbing Ranger
bernadette_regan@nps.gov
Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic
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