18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 382 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Does any one else remember the movie Clear and Present Danger with Harrison Ford?
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
bleeding ears from bad music is usually a metaphor
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
I have a really hard time believing that offshore $350 full auto ak's are harder to come by than $1000-$1500 US made rifles that require welding and machining to become full auto in Mexico. The gun market in the US is here to make money by selling to gun lovers who have dough and can buy most anything. If you want something that will shoot rival gang members or make a statement about one group liking a band - you don't need a Krebs custom AK to do that. I'd like to see the real statistics on which guns came from the US. Somehow I believe the US guns are Lorcins (a true POS) and pakistani sourced HK's are the real firepower.

The Mexican drug lords make money off the appetite of american users. Big dollars mean tough business practices-which have stepped over the bounds acceptable to many mexican citizens.

I spent a decade representing and selling farms, land, and ranches in Sonora and traveled the backcounty of the state extensively. I don't know if I will ever go back.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
You can take a good sized ship to Pakistan and buy all the AK's you want
for $50 each and Bob's your uncle - instant army/cartel/sailing arms merchant.
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
All your SuperTopo bullshit seems pretty f*#king lame now, eh?
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Killing is always justified... by those perpetuating it. Unless we accept that all killing is wrong regardless and never justified, we will always have killing.

What is worse is that there is an obvious and realistic non-violent solution to all of this, the legalization of drugs.

How many people on this thread saying the villagers should rise up against the cartels are for stricter gun control?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
we WILL ALWAYS have killing.. There WILL ALWAYS be the bad against the good. That was meant perhaps, as a control of the population over all in the grandest of schemes.

Maybe thats why Plato said : "Only the dead have seen the end of wars"
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Have you seen the high tech submarines they have that they use to smuggle stuff into the U.S? Drugs provide the money for all that and more. The guns are just to grease the machine to make more money.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
Here is something I posted on a thread regarding NorCal pot farmers who "suck".

A well done film called "Breaking the Taboo" which discusses the tragedy and failure of the war on drugs.

"Narrated by Morgan Freeman and Gael Garcia Bernal, this groundbreaking new documentary uncovers the UN sanctioned war on drugs, charting its origins and its devastating impact on countries like the USA, Colombia and Russia. Featuring prominent statesmen including Presidents Clinton and Carter, the film follows The Global Commission on Drug Policy on a mission to break the political taboo and expose the biggest failure of global policy in the last 50 years."

2 minute trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2vqpNT1kV4
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
I agree Ron, but there are societies with more and less violence. Mexico glorifies violence, especially as a form of retribution, arguably more than here in the US (yes I have lived there) and they are paying the price for it now. I know there will always be killing in the world, but does that negate a moral stance against killing that killing is wrong in all forms, and that retributive killings only perpetuate more killings? If more people took this stance, yes you would see a reduction in violence.
coz

Gym climber
Belmont
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Seriously,

The Cartel wouldn't be making any money if they didn't have anyone to sell drugs, etc, to. It's just the very hight of ignorance IMHO, to say something to the effect of just go to war with the Cartel, when that's the very thinking that just got Mexico into this horrible violence.

Calderon and his guys, just went to war with the Cartel, don't you people understand that, do you understand he was voted out of office, do you understand we cannot declare war on Mexico, are we really that ignorant?

I would start by watching an old but good movie called Traffic, it just scratches the surface of this very complex problem and is in a medium many of you would enjoy.

Supply and demand and who control said supply is the issue, not a war with the Cartel, this should be a starting point for any critical debate on the topic, but that's not what everyone seems to be after here.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
I really don't understand how in a modern country like Mexico the law enforcement system can be so weak for so long that this can continue for years.

Could you imagine the incredible amount of hell that would rain down on a group that did something like just one of these events here in the USA? They wouldn't last long enough to do it more than a few times.. if that..

It would be OVER.

How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?

pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
Exactly Coz.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
Climb2ski,,I ask that nearly daily of my reps, but i never hear back..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?

There's a threshold of corruption that, once crossed, causes the whole system to spiral. When basic trust is gone in a society, it's nearly impossible to get back.

Many countries exist in this state. In fact most countries exist in this state.

But most countries aren't as violent as Mexico. India is just as lawless as Mexico. Bribes rule the day. But still, this type of violence in India and other places is uncommon.




pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
I don't know much about India, but I think it is fairly violent with an ancient caste system and other problems (gang rapes)? I agree Mexico has a culture that accepts and often encourages violence.

Anyone interested in the topic of violence and how ordinary people (neighbors, women and children) can turn against each other, this is an excellent documentary, very disturbing though and will give you nightmares. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3DrvrrSgHI
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Jan 29, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
oh worldly coz

you do know mexican president can hold only one term right?
toadgas

Social climber
los angeles
Jan 29, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
-


But most countries aren't as violent as Mexico


it's a cultural-genetic thing, that bloodthirsty level of ultra-violence


...linked to their Aztec/Mayan heritage




check out Apocalypto by Mel Gibson


-
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Scott, Calderon wasn't voted out.
Mexican presidents are limited to one six year term.


Climbski2. One word-corruption
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
Its a contextual thing too of course. Here in American we push buttons to vote to give people the authority to push buttons to send drones to kill women and children (and one or two guys deemed bad of course) in fiery explosions. In some ways one might appreciate that Mexicans at least do things mano a mano. (I know that is bad Spanish)
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