18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing


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Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
I really don't understand how in a modern country like Mexico the law enforcement system can be so weak for so long that this can continue for years.

Could you imagine the incredible amount of hell that would rain down on a group that did something like just one of these events here in the USA? They wouldn't last long enough to do it more than a few times.. if that..

It would be OVER.

How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?


Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Exactly Coz.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Climb2ski,,I ask that nearly daily of my reps, but i never hear back..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?

There's a threshold of corruption that, once crossed, causes the whole system to spiral. When basic trust is gone in a society, it's nearly impossible to get back.

Many countries exist in this state. In fact most countries exist in this state.

But most countries aren't as violent as Mexico. India is just as lawless as Mexico. Bribes rule the day. But still, this type of violence in India and other places is uncommon.


Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
I don't know much about India, but I think it is fairly violent with an ancient caste system and other problems (gang rapes)? I agree Mexico has a culture that accepts and often encourages violence.

Anyone interested in the topic of violence and how ordinary people (neighbors, women and children) can turn against each other, this is an excellent documentary, very disturbing though and will give you nightmares. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3DrvrrSgHI
rick d

ol pueblo, az
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
oh worldly coz

you do know mexican president can hold only one term right?

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Scott, Calderon wasn't voted out.
Mexican presidents are limited to one six year term.

Climbski2. One word-corruption

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Its a contextual thing too of course. Here in American we push buttons to vote to give people the authority to push buttons to send drones to kill women and children (and one or two guys deemed bad of course) in fiery explosions. In some ways one might appreciate that Mexicans at least do things mano a mano. (I know that is bad Spanish)

Social climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
I rented a place through Magic Ed, and out back there was a bar/hall where there were parties going on, loud music trough the night. I wanted to go check it out, but thought better of it.

The band played love songs, not drug songs, or so the story says. Frickin' brutal.

K-Man - sounds like you stayed at the same house Skip and I did on our Honeymoon.

Glad we had our one, wonderful trip. Yikes.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Why on earth would arms be easy to get in the region? Probably only the northern / border crews get their arms from the U.S., the rest no doubt come through Guatemala.

U.S. arms and equipment sales by country | Country or region (sales since 1996)

Mexico ($4,750,608,399)
Colombia ($3,111,194,327)
Brazil ($3,001,416,562)
Venezuela ($2,073,509,043)
Chile ($1,719,476,120)
Honduras ($1,496,116,225)
Argentina ($1,471,098,494)
French Guiana ($1,147,400,245)
Cayman Islands ($1,092,685,947)
Peru ($782,610,904)
Ecuador ($294,790,543)
Dominican Republic ($254,761,531)
Costa Rica ($183,852,792)
El Salvador ($170,589,716)
Bolivia ($142,475,940)
Panama ($127,733,456)
Bermuda ($117,278,701)
Netherlands Antilles ($108,395,794)
Uruguay ($80,424,297)
Guatemala ($75,261,564)

Latin America and Caribbean

Major Problems:

* Increasing demand due to general increase in criminal and cross-border activities.

* Approximately 90% of illicit arms enter through Columbia, Panama and Guatemala

* Illicit homemade firearms post a challenge. They flow from Central and North America.
KP Ariza

Jan 29, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
oh worldly coz

you do know mexican president can hold only one term right?

Now thats funny..LOL

Jan 29, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
You guys are going to solve the problem by watching f*#king movies? Or we will some how become enlightened through them, geebus!!

Clear and Present Danger
Breaking the Taboo
movie called Traffic

HA, ha, ha!

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
Reading this sh!t is like looking at a dyslexic's brain self-immolating.

Jim Henson's Basement
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
Well, I'm incredibly saddened to hear about this. Some looser gang/cartel/whatever feels like they got "disrespected" or some other macho bullshit so they start killing people. Of course these idiots don't give a rat's ass about how it wrecks their own communities.

All I can really think about right now is the kind folks in Hidalgo who were already struggling and now are going to be financially devastated as the last of the climbers leave and probably won't return for a long time.. if ever. I think about the nice folks who own the coffee shop who are utterly dependent on climbers for income. I think about Ed and the other climbers who have put heart and soul into creating a world-class climbing area that will get passed up in favor of less conflicted locations.

I'm extremely grateful for my one wonderful trip there.

Sincere condolences to the families of the murdered.

Jan 29, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
Sorry about the violence getting closer to home. That's some pretty sad stuff right there. If you compare stats of the border towns El Paso Texas and Laredo, Mexico, Laredo has substantially less guns but a huge amount of gun violence in comparison. Sometimes it even spills over from Mexico to El Paso. Crazy stuff.

"And we flood Mexico with guns, legal and illegal. "

Thats bullsh#t. You have the stats or a link? Didn't think so. I've heard repeatedly that most of the illegal guns in Mexico come from Guatemala. Grenades and automatic weapons too. Of course, some get in from the US, and the US government will approval sales to the Mexican military who turn around and convert them to cash vis criminal sales. And some official US gov't approved illegals guns have gotten in as well, google "Fast and furious gunrunning". But have you ever crossed our border into Mexico? We spend 1.9 billion dollars patrolling it. It will NOT be easy. I challenge you to get a gun across it.

Fortunately, Mexico, unlike the US - has strong gun control laws. But sadly for normal civilians, only the honest people follow them, so honest people get f*#ked. F*#ked by the politicians, f*#ked by the cartel, even f*#ked by regular policemen who kidnap their loved ones to pick up a few extra bucks fro beer money. All the criminal, corrupt politicians, corrupt policmen (most of them) corrupt military (most of them) love the disarmament of the regular joes though, just like in Brazil where they have all but banned guns, are shooting the place up. It's not the guns that are the problem, again, Brazil has banned them and violence there is off the hook and off the charts. It's institutionalized poverty and corruption, and a mindset of the people.

Banning guns hasn't done sh#t.

Sorry about the violence getting closer to home.

SF bay area
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
See healyje's post above, and yes, I did provide a link, keep reading.

The predecessor program to Fast and Furious was started by Bush to address the problem of illegal guns going to Mexico.

Apparently Bush thought the problem was big enough to work on it.

Drugs go north to the U.S. Guns go south into Mexico. Just because it looks hard for you to do it, means nothing.

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:50pm PT

You know when a climber dies, we first say "I'm so sorry for your loss". Some of us think: What happened?, Did the climber f*#k up?, Was he/she a stoned or a dirtbagger? . But, first we say "I'm sorry, condolences to family and friends".

just saying.


Jan 29, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
Thanks monolith,, I was typing (and making dinner, multitasking they call it) as folks were posting.
Scott McNamara

Tucson, Arizona
Jan 29, 2013 - 10:04pm PT

Jan 29, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
"I also think the U.S. should go in there with the cooperation of the Mexican government and just wipe them out. They are true evil, chopping up families, women, kids, etc. Time to clean them out. "

Uhh, that ain't gonna happen soon, the evidence seems to indicate that the CIA uses drug sales to pay for other projects......so we cooperate with some and then wipe out the ones who don't cooperate. At least that is what people in the know say. The ones that are left are our bitches.

The world is a strange place.
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