18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 339 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
we WILL ALWAYS have killing.. There WILL ALWAYS be the bad against the good. That was meant perhaps, as a control of the population over all in the grandest of schemes.

Maybe thats why Plato said : "Only the dead have seen the end of wars"
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Have you seen the high tech submarines they have that they use to smuggle stuff into the U.S? Drugs provide the money for all that and more. The guns are just to grease the machine to make more money.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
Here is something I posted on a thread regarding NorCal pot farmers who "suck".

A well done film called "Breaking the Taboo" which discusses the tragedy and failure of the war on drugs.

"Narrated by Morgan Freeman and Gael Garcia Bernal, this groundbreaking new documentary uncovers the UN sanctioned war on drugs, charting its origins and its devastating impact on countries like the USA, Colombia and Russia. Featuring prominent statesmen including Presidents Clinton and Carter, the film follows The Global Commission on Drug Policy on a mission to break the political taboo and expose the biggest failure of global policy in the last 50 years."

2 minute trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2vqpNT1kV4
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
I agree Ron, but there are societies with more and less violence. Mexico glorifies violence, especially as a form of retribution, arguably more than here in the US (yes I have lived there) and they are paying the price for it now. I know there will always be killing in the world, but does that negate a moral stance against killing that killing is wrong in all forms, and that retributive killings only perpetuate more killings? If more people took this stance, yes you would see a reduction in violence.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
I really don't understand how in a modern country like Mexico the law enforcement system can be so weak for so long that this can continue for years.

Could you imagine the incredible amount of hell that would rain down on a group that did something like just one of these events here in the USA? They wouldn't last long enough to do it more than a few times.. if that..

It would be OVER.

How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?

pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Exactly Coz.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Climb2ski,,I ask that nearly daily of my reps, but i never hear back..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
How can Mexico not have the will to solve this issue?

There's a threshold of corruption that, once crossed, causes the whole system to spiral. When basic trust is gone in a society, it's nearly impossible to get back.

Many countries exist in this state. In fact most countries exist in this state.

But most countries aren't as violent as Mexico. India is just as lawless as Mexico. Bribes rule the day. But still, this type of violence in India and other places is uncommon.




pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
I don't know much about India, but I think it is fairly violent with an ancient caste system and other problems (gang rapes)? I agree Mexico has a culture that accepts and often encourages violence.

Anyone interested in the topic of violence and how ordinary people (neighbors, women and children) can turn against each other, this is an excellent documentary, very disturbing though and will give you nightmares. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3DrvrrSgHI
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
oh worldly coz

you do know mexican president can hold only one term right?
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Scott, Calderon wasn't voted out.
Mexican presidents are limited to one six year term.


Climbski2. One word-corruption
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Its a contextual thing too of course. Here in American we push buttons to vote to give people the authority to push buttons to send drones to kill women and children (and one or two guys deemed bad of course) in fiery explosions. In some ways one might appreciate that Mexicans at least do things mano a mano. (I know that is bad Spanish)
MisterE

Social climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
I rented a place through Magic Ed, and out back there was a bar/hall where there were parties going on, loud music trough the night. I wanted to go check it out, but thought better of it.

The band played love songs, not drug songs, or so the story says. Frickin' brutal.

K-Man - sounds like you stayed at the same house Skip and I did on our Honeymoon.

Glad we had our one, wonderful trip. Yikes.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Why on earth would arms be easy to get in the region? Probably only the northern / border crews get their arms from the U.S., the rest no doubt come through Guatemala.

U.S. arms and equipment sales by country | Country or region (sales since 1996)

Mexico ($4,750,608,399)
Colombia ($3,111,194,327)
Brazil ($3,001,416,562)
Venezuela ($2,073,509,043)
Chile ($1,719,476,120)
Honduras ($1,496,116,225)
Argentina ($1,471,098,494)
French Guiana ($1,147,400,245)
Cayman Islands ($1,092,685,947)
Peru ($782,610,904)
Ecuador ($294,790,543)
Dominican Republic ($254,761,531)
Costa Rica ($183,852,792)
El Salvador ($170,589,716)
Bolivia ($142,475,940)
Panama ($127,733,456)
Bermuda ($117,278,701)
Netherlands Antilles ($108,395,794)
Uruguay ($80,424,297)
Guatemala ($75,261,564)

Latin America and Caribbean

Major Problems:


* Increasing demand due to general increase in criminal and cross-border activities.

* Approximately 90% of illicit arms enter through Columbia, Panama and Guatemala

* Illicit homemade firearms post a challenge. They flow from Central and North America.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Jan 29, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
oh worldly coz

you do know mexican president can hold only one term right?

Now thats funny..LOL
dave

climber
Earth
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
You guys are going to solve the problem by watching f*#king movies? Or we will some how become enlightened through them, geebus!!


Clear and Present Danger
Breaking the Taboo
movie called Traffic

HA, ha, ha!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
Reading this sh!t is like looking at a dyslexic's brain self-immolating.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
Well, I'm incredibly saddened to hear about this. Some looser gang/cartel/whatever feels like they got "disrespected" or some other macho bullshit so they start killing people. Of course these idiots don't give a rat's ass about how it wrecks their own communities.

All I can really think about right now is the kind folks in Hidalgo who were already struggling and now are going to be financially devastated as the last of the climbers leave and probably won't return for a long time.. if ever. I think about the nice folks who own the coffee shop who are utterly dependent on climbers for income. I think about Ed and the other climbers who have put heart and soul into creating a world-class climbing area that will get passed up in favor of less conflicted locations.

I'm extremely grateful for my one wonderful trip there.

Sincere condolences to the families of the murdered.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
Sorry about the violence getting closer to home. That's some pretty sad stuff right there. If you compare stats of the border towns El Paso Texas and Laredo, Mexico, Laredo has substantially less guns but a huge amount of gun violence in comparison. Sometimes it even spills over from Mexico to El Paso. Crazy stuff.


"And we flood Mexico with guns, legal and illegal. "

Thats bullsh#t. You have the stats or a link? Didn't think so. I've heard repeatedly that most of the illegal guns in Mexico come from Guatemala. Grenades and automatic weapons too. Of course, some get in from the US, and the US government will approval sales to the Mexican military who turn around and convert them to cash vis criminal sales. And some official US gov't approved illegals guns have gotten in as well, google "Fast and furious gunrunning". But have you ever crossed our border into Mexico? We spend 1.9 billion dollars patrolling it. It will NOT be easy. I challenge you to get a gun across it.

Fortunately, Mexico, unlike the US - has strong gun control laws. But sadly for normal civilians, only the honest people follow them, so honest people get f*#ked. F*#ked by the politicians, f*#ked by the cartel, even f*#ked by regular policemen who kidnap their loved ones to pick up a few extra bucks fro beer money. All the criminal, corrupt politicians, corrupt policmen (most of them) corrupt military (most of them) love the disarmament of the regular joes though, just like in Brazil where they have all but banned guns, are shooting the place up. It's not the guns that are the problem, again, Brazil has banned them and violence there is off the hook and off the charts. It's institutionalized poverty and corruption, and a mindset of the people.

Banning guns hasn't done sh#t.

Sorry about the violence getting closer to home.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
See healyje's post above, and yes, I did provide a link, keep reading.

The predecessor program to Fast and Furious was started by Bush to address the problem of illegal guns going to Mexico.

Apparently Bush thought the problem was big enough to work on it.

Drugs go north to the U.S. Guns go south into Mexico. Just because it looks hard for you to do it, means nothing.
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