18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Messages 361 - 380 of total 382 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Feb 11, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
What?? You didn't hear about those climbers who were attacked and beaten by a whole village in Peru for not handing over to them their passports?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Feb 11, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Finally !

Tell us what's going on Ed !
gallo

Big Wall climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
Rock and ice staff.
Duane Raleigh:
Your article is very sensacionalist ( aka Tabloid).
you pick carefully a single incident and some general statistical data and rush to write this down out of context, inducing the reader to panic without a point of reference. of the real situation and most important:
DAMAGING THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY.
I was last winter in Potrero for a couple of months and things haven't change much since my last visit.
In the last years there are at least a couple hundreds of climbers per season who stay for several weeks at the area without recalling a single notorious incident and the locals (the good and the bad ones) naturally knows who are all this foreing people.
I will notice that you must exercise common sense visiting potrero like you will do in some other out of states adventorous climbing areas like south america or even europe.
Acurate, sencible information is crucial to succed as a climber.
As a columnist of this magazine you owe to the readers a sound judgement
gallo

Big Wall climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
TO THE ROCK AND ICE STAFF:
Im just simple a appalled to keep finding this article everywhere; and now to to find out how you decide to keep your posture and the way you present the the facts.
everything thath you stated about mexico in your answer to our posts is true.
IT IS THE WAY THAT YOU PRESENT THE FACTS THAT FALL ON THE SENSATIONALISM.
Again: there is a statistical disproportion of the real... situation in Potrero and the gross numbers (national averages) you are using to ilustrate your point.
As I said before YOU ARE DAMAGING WITH YOUR LACK OF ACCURACY THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY FOR YEARS TO COME.
As a journalist you owe your readers and the People who open in the past their doors to you in potrero an accurate balanced information.

karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 11, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Gallo,

I can understand your point, but we are talking about chopped up humans here. Climbing is important, but not being chopped up is more important.
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Feb 12, 2013 - 07:58am PT
In spite of this incident everything here is tranquilo. I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.

Nobody panicked, nobody fled: climbers are still arriving and leaving by land and air. The weather is fabulous and there's lots of big new routes being bolted and climbed.
T H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Feb 12, 2013 - 09:29am PT
I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.
That (un)safe?
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 13, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
Sometimes climbers don't seem so bright.
Guess who doesn't give a sh#t if you onsite 12d - or dress like a dirtbag - if you likely flew down to their turf, just to climb a lousy piece of stone, you, too, just might be . . . a gringo, de facto rich by any Mexican criteria. And practically worthy of torture and a bullet.
There is a universe of wrong-headed logic that will soon show up here, when people figure out too late that legalizing pot = streamlining the conduit for Cartels to fix the supply side. It will NOT solve the crime problem at all, just as it has NOT in Oregon, California, etc.
No easy answers, except on principle climbers need to be avoiding/boycotting that area; it will only be a matter of time before someone you actually know gets the machete treatment, and your buds certainly can't help you, or say you weren't given fair warning.
MisterE

Social climber
Feb 13, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.

Now THAT was as succinct as it gets. Thanks, Ed.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 14, 2013 - 05:48am PT
holyshootdude

Social climber
santacruz mountains
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:01am PT
The most dangerous thing For westerners in Mexico is the heart of the Mexican people,I've been more in danger in Kentucky ,
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:00am PT
zBrown, I just looked up Colombian statistics to see how they compare with what you have. At the height of the Pablo Escobar days in 1991, Medellin had 381 homicides per 100,000 habitants. Its dropped now, by 2009 it was down to about 100 per 100,000. However, that's just Medellin. Where we are in Apartado, it's a lot worse, with about 10% of the population murdered over the last two decades. However, the local statistics are just estimates since so many people just disappeared and were buried in mass graves.

holyshootdude, in Colombia the tourism ads say, "the only danger is that you won't want to leave." Could change it to say, "the main danger is that you'll just disappear."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 14, 2013 - 11:31am PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
The Colombian stats include reported murders. For each one, the person went to the police at least. That means its very likely true since it's a crime to make this stuff up. They are accurate in that respect, but many murders are not reported, since people fear the police, and for good reason. The numbers are generally underreported. However, with the war crimes tribunal going on, and the possibility of compensation for victims, people are coming forward. Anyway, I don't think its inaccurate to say that the murder rate was about 10 times higher than what they're seeing in Mexico.

By the way, the movie el Cartel de los Sapos was worth watching. For a shoot-em-up crime movie, it held my interest, mainly because its so accurate in depicting the Colombian culture. The word "sapo" means informant in Colombia (toad). Contrary to popular belief, these guys always rat each other out at every opportunity.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.


Yep. I'm not up to the task but a serial pass through the numbers, say from 2000 to 2012 would be an interesting exercise.

cliffmama

Trad climber
Gunks
Feb 14, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Hey ZBrown,
A friend told me I should read this thread because I'm about to leave for Potrero Chico, but I was surprised to see this photo in the thread. I took that photo - I'm the asian (but not Vietnamese) tourist with the camera so I'm not in the shot. Did you pull this from my blog at http://cliffmama.com/blog/missing-potrero-chico-mexico/

I realize my friends are concerned, but I have to admit that I'm getting tired of the daily notes from people saying "did you hear this? did you read about that? You're crazy! Too dangerous! Your children need you!" and making the assumption that I'm not going to survive my trip. Wish me well, think what you want and keep it to yourself, but please don't keep telling me I'm going to die, I think it's pretty rude. We're going to climb in the day, and lay low at night. Just like as with climbing, we analyze the situation, weigh the risks and choose our actions. This will be my 9th trip there. I'll be in the Mexican sunshine by lunchtime on Saturday.

I have never been to portrero chico and am not anticipating a trip nearfuturewise, so I poked around a little and did find some photographic evidence of Vietnamese tourists, alive no less.
T H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Feb 14, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine
Feb 15, 2013 - 07:08am PT
I recognized at least one person from cliffmama's blog. Those Canucks love the Potrero.

Is it sensational to mention some disturbing activities going on down there? I don't know. I know that many of the articles on mass murder that have been posted here and that don't get a whiff of airtime up here in the states have opened my eyes more to the realities of the absolute tragedy perpetrated in Mexico.

Then again, Honnold's blast of a trip down there is getting sensationalized too by the same vindictive climbing media outlets. It looks like he's having a great trip!

Is it hubris to wander around the Posada while invoking the mantra that only those without common sense will get hurt? Or is it a worse crime to sit safe in on the sofa while casting aspersions?

I'd go down there again, it's a blast, but, somehow, I'd feel hesitant about bringing loved ones to an area that so recently saw such an atrocity. As much as downing the tourist economy down there hurts them, it's also callous to minimize what happened to those musicians who happened to step on the dick of some gangsters.
pelut espania

Big Wall climber
Espania
Feb 22, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
" They are Mexicanos and not the cultured Spanish gentlemans"


That is f*#king hilarious...the same spanish that wiped out most natives in the Americas without blinking an eye.

Amigo! American Dogs did the Mexican wrongs not the gentlemans of Espania! tu loco man! We are gentlemans and love all peoples. Viva Espania!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 23, 2013 - 06:56am PT
Nuevo Laredo

May, 2012 - grafico

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/attachments/off-topic-messages/533d1336391091-think-your-drug-use-harmless-greetings-your-drug-suppliers-los-zetas-hang-9-rival-cartel-members-off-nuevo-laredo-bridge.jpg


now the cheif of police has disappeared and his two brothers have been found dead

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/23/little-impact-in-violent-mexican-border-city-after-police-chief-disappears/
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