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Larryc206
Gym climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Feb 11, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
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The Mexican drug traffic won't be eliminated until all the U. S. A. addicts give up their drug habits.
Of course, one way (which I do not advocate) to reduce the excessive amounts of money the Mexican drug lords receive would be for the U. S. to rescind the current prohibition on the use of drugs here in the U. S.
Mexican authorities are always pleading for us to reduce the demand here in the U. S. I don't think mere education about the evils of drugs will do it.
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KRS-Grun
Trad climber
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Feb 11, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
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New cave found near Monterrey. We are have bolted two lines so far. Just found it last week. It may be dangerous in Mexico but there sure are a lot of tufas.
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Huecool
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 11, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
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Born and raised in El Paso I've lived near the Mexican border most of my life. IMHO the US should annex Mexico and begin the integration into statehood. This would solidify the US power on this corner of the globe AND ultimately create a peaceful and economically productive environment. I'm sure Canada would like to join the US too (or so I've heard from some of them).
Squint you eyes a little bit and think about it. From the polar cap to the isthmus, all USA, free for us climbers (and workers) to travel about and flourish in! Viva USA!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Feb 11, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
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Mexico is right here in California....50% of the local school enrollment is Hispanic and many of the local jobs are held by undocumneted workers....I knew this local canadian that got deported because he didn't have his papers...Go figure...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 11, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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But if the US annexed Mexico and Canada, what would you guys do with all the enfranchised socialists and Mexicans ?
Send them to Texas?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Feb 11, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
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Isn't that considered cruel and unusual punishment?
For the Mexicans it would be.
So we won't require them to to go Texas.
We'll just offer free land to those who want to move there.
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cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
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Feb 11, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
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New cave looks nice. Cartels probably too lazy to hike to the base there.
Then again, would be an easy place to dispose of peeps.
Have some fun down there. Be vigilant.
Still sticking local until we can afford to go to Greece or Thailand. Warm, inexpensive, and pretty darn safe(it appears)
Jonathon
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Magic Ed
Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
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Feb 11, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
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What?? You didn't hear about those climbers who were attacked and beaten by a whole village in Peru for not handing over to them their passports?
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gallo
Big Wall climber
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:42am PT
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Rock and ice staff.
Duane Raleigh:
Your article is very sensacionalist ( aka Tabloid).
you pick carefully a single incident and some general statistical data and rush to write this down out of context, inducing the reader to panic without a point of reference. of the real situation and most important:
DAMAGING THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY.
I was last winter in Potrero for a couple of months and things haven't change much since my last visit.
In the last years there are at least a couple hundreds of climbers per season who stay for several weeks at the area without recalling a single notorious incident and the locals (the good and the bad ones) naturally knows who are all this foreing people.
I will notice that you must exercise common sense visiting potrero like you will do in some other out of states adventorous climbing areas like south america or even europe.
Acurate, sencible information is crucial to succed as a climber.
As a columnist of this magazine you owe to the readers a sound judgement
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gallo
Big Wall climber
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:49am PT
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TO THE ROCK AND ICE STAFF:
Im just simple a appalled to keep finding this article everywhere; and now to to find out how you decide to keep your posture and the way you present the the facts.
everything thath you stated about mexico in your answer to our posts is true.
IT IS THE WAY THAT YOU PRESENT THE FACTS THAT FALL ON THE SENSATIONALISM.
Again: there is a statistical disproportion of the real... situation in Potrero and the gross numbers (national averages) you are using to ilustrate your point.
As I said before YOU ARE DAMAGING WITH YOUR LACK OF ACCURACY THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY FOR YEARS TO COME.
As a journalist you owe your readers and the People who open in the past their doors to you in potrero an accurate balanced information.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:58am PT
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Gallo,
I can understand your point, but we are talking about chopped up humans here. Climbing is important, but not being chopped up is more important.
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Magic Ed
Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
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Feb 12, 2013 - 10:58am PT
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In spite of this incident everything here is tranquilo. I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.
Nobody panicked, nobody fled: climbers are still arriving and leaving by land and air. The weather is fabulous and there's lots of big new routes being bolted and climbed.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Feb 12, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
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I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.
That (un)safe?
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
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Sometimes climbers don't seem so bright.
Guess who doesn't give a sh#t if you onsite 12d - or dress like a dirtbag - if you likely flew down to their turf, just to climb a lousy piece of stone, you, too, just might be . . . a gringo, de facto rich by any Mexican criteria. And practically worthy of torture and a bullet.
There is a universe of wrong-headed logic that will soon show up here, when people figure out too late that legalizing pot = streamlining the conduit for Cartels to fix the supply side. It will NOT solve the crime problem at all, just as it has NOT in Oregon, California, etc.
No easy answers, except on principle climbers need to be avoiding/boycotting that area; it will only be a matter of time before someone you actually know gets the machete treatment, and your buds certainly can't help you, or say you weren't given fair warning.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Feb 13, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
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I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.
Now THAT was as succinct as it gets. Thanks, Ed.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Feb 14, 2013 - 08:48am PT
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holyshootdude
Social climber
santacruz mountains
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Feb 14, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
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The most dangerous thing For westerners in Mexico is the heart of the Mexican people,I've been more in danger in Kentucky ,
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 14, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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zBrown, I just looked up Colombian statistics to see how they compare with what you have. At the height of the Pablo Escobar days in 1991, Medellin had 381 homicides per 100,000 habitants. Its dropped now, by 2009 it was down to about 100 per 100,000. However, that's just Medellin. Where we are in Apartado, it's a lot worse, with about 10% of the population murdered over the last two decades. However, the local statistics are just estimates since so many people just disappeared and were buried in mass graves.
holyshootdude, in Colombia the tourism ads say, "the only danger is that you won't want to leave." Could change it to say, "the main danger is that you'll just disappear."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 14, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Feb 14, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
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The Colombian stats include reported murders. For each one, the person went to the police at least. That means its very likely true since it's a crime to make this stuff up. They are accurate in that respect, but many murders are not reported, since people fear the police, and for good reason. The numbers are generally underreported. However, with the war crimes tribunal going on, and the possibility of compensation for victims, people are coming forward. Anyway, I don't think its inaccurate to say that the murder rate was about 10 times higher than what they're seeing in Mexico.
By the way, the movie el Cartel de los Sapos was worth watching. For a shoot-em-up crime movie, it held my interest, mainly because its so accurate in depicting the Colombian culture. The word "sapo" means informant in Colombia (toad). Contrary to popular belief, these guys always rat each other out at every opportunity.
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