18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
very very phuqed up. best limestone area near Austin.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
kind of early to speculate, but (diffent incidents):

The band's singer, Julio Cesar Leyva Beltran, was abducted from a party in the state Choix, a city in the Mexican state of Sinaloa. He was taken away in an SUV after the band refused to play another song after the guests requested one. While in captivity, the kidnappers who remain unidentified, tortured Leyva and shot him in the leg.
...


Another case was reported in November of last year when narcocorrido singer-songwriter Diergo Rivas was murdered in the state of Sinaloa. One of Rivas' famous songs was an ode to Joaquin Shorty Guzman, one of Mexico's most wanted drug lord.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/mexican-singer-kidnapped-tortured-refusing-to-play-song_n_1412245.html
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
Maybe the band was playing at a Narco party, and they didn't know who their host was. The trumpet player made a pass at the wrong girl, and the narcos figured they'd have "fun" with the band.

The band member who escaped is probably shitting bricks right now...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
I'm wary of even going to canon tajo, much less anywhere on the mainland.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
Survival writes:

"I didn't say they were Narcocorrido, just that it was a possible explanation."


This is true. And you would be playing the percentages, because that kind of crap happens pretty damned often down there.

I was trying to imagine the mindset that would make someone want to do that, and I could only shake my head. Then I recalled dudes like Biggie Smalls and Tupac getting theirs, and it almost makes sense.

Or maybe the neighbors simply got tired of living next door to a noisy garage band, and that's just how those things are handled when you can't afford to bribe the police to come quiet them down.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
Julio Cesar Leyva Beltran


I believe that one of the Sinaloa drug kings name is/was Beltran Leyva or Leyva Beltran. maybe a relative
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Chinese made AK 47s in mexico.

Russian made SKS in mexico

Czechoslovakia made handguns in mexico

Turkish AK knock offs also in mexico

for instance.


And google al-kay-duh in C and S America..
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
A good friend of mine just got there, I hope he is smart enough to flee. Crazy story and I will be keeping a close watch if things unfold further.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
from 2009

Members of a group of Mexican drug traffickers have been indicted in the murders of nine people in the San Diego area - including two victims whose bodies were dissolved in acid, authorities announced Thursday.

"Los Palillos" gang - "The Toothpicks," in English - operated in the late 1990s and early 2000s in Tijuana, Mexico, as a cell of the Arellano Felix cartel, named for one of Mexico's most notorious drug trafficking families, said Mark Amador, a deputy district attorney. The gang of U.S. and Mexican citizens moved to the San Diego area around 2002 to deal in marijuana and methamphetamine after a leader was killed in a feud inside the Tijuana-based cartel.


The house "The Toothpicks" rented is a half mile up the road from me.


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-5241822.html
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Might want to review and rewrite, that's some offensive BS dude.

you might find it offensive Scott, but for the most part, Hank is speaking the truth
Joe

Social climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
truly tragic...

but I don't understand why it is necessary to diss Ed while expressing an opinion...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395

Jan 29, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Might want to review and rewrite, that's some offensive BS dude.

you might find it offensive Scott, but for the most part, Hank is speaking the truth






+1...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
If this had happened to the American climbers instead of the band, we could have long thread full of rants about how they aren't real climbers, should have hired guides, shouldn't have been there in the first place, were insensitive the locals, should have listened to the locals, deserved everything that happened to them, or how nothing happened to them and it was all an elaborate hoax to defraud supertopians out of their hard-earned money.

Just sayin'
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
Mono,,, heres the real facts about US made guns in mexico,, this from fact check..\




Home • Articles • Counting Mexico’s Guns
Counting Mexico’s Guns
President Obama says 90 percent of Mexico's recovered crime guns come from the U.S. That's not what the statistics show.
Posted on April 17, 2009 , Corrected on April 22, 2009

Summary
There’s no dispute that thousands of handguns, military-style rifles and other firearms are purchased in the U.S. and end up in the hands of Mexican criminals each year. It’s relatively easy to buy such guns legally in Texas and other border states and to smuggle them across.

But is it true, as President Obama said, that "[m]ore than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States?" Government statistics don’t actually support that claim.

The figure represents only the percentage of crime guns that have been submitted by Mexican officials and traced by U.S. officials. We can find no hard data on the total number of guns actually "recovered in Mexico," but U.S. and Mexican officials both say that Mexico recovers more guns than it submits for tracing. Therefore, the percentage of guns "recovered" that are traced to U.S. sources necessarily is less than 90 percent. Where do the others come from? U.S. officials can’t say.

Fox News has put the percentage of guns that have been traced to U.S. sources at only 17 percent, but we find that to be based on a mistaken assumption that throws its figure way off. We can’t offer a precise calculation because we know of no hard information on the total number of guns Mexican officials have recovered. But if a rough figure given by Mexico’s attorney general is accurate, then the actual percentage of all Mexican crime guns that have been traced to U.S. sources is more than double what Fox News has reported.

Correction, April 22: We originally concluded that Obama’s 90 percent figure was “not true” and based on a “badly biased” sample of recovered guns. We are retracting both those characterizations, and we apologize to our readers for this error. We have rewritten the article throughout to correct this.

Our error was to think we had confirmed that Mexican officials submit for tracing only those guns they believe likely to have come from the U.S. Law enforcement officials say they don’t know if that’s the case.

Analysis
In recent weeks, efforts by the United States and Mexico to stop the illegal transfer of guns and drugs along their shared border have been on the front burner. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano traveled to Mexico earlier this month to meet with their Mexican counterparts to discuss what can be done. And this week President Barack Obama traveled down south to continue talks between the two nations.

During a joint press conference with President Felipe Calderón of Mexico, Obama said of the raging violence by Mexican drug gangs:

Obama, April 16: A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping to keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States. More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border.
Obama would have been correct to say that 90 percent of the guns submitted for tracing by Mexican authorities were then traced to the U.S. The percentage of all recovered guns that came from the U.S. is unknown.

The 90% Claim

The president isn’t the first to make this mistaken claim; far from it. During an interview on CBS’ "Early Show" on March 26, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said: "We have to recognize and accept that the demand for drugs from the United States drives them north, and the guns that are used by the drug cartels against the police and the military, 90 percent of them come from America."

The 90 percent figure was similarly cited by Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) during a March 17 congressional hearing on the subject. Durbin said: "According to ATF [the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives], more than 90 percent of the guns seized after raids or shootings in Mexico have been traced right here to the United States of America." Feinstein added: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico used to shoot judges, police officers, mayors, kidnap innocent people and do terrible things come from the United States, and I think we must put a stop to that."

And it’s been reported by a phalanx of news organizations, including the Christian Science Monitor, the New York Times, NBC and the Chicago Tribune, that 90 percent of Mexico’s recovered guns come from the U.S.

Mexican authorities have made the same error: On CBS’ "Face the Nation" on April 12, Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan said: "Ninety percent of all weapons we are seizing in Mexico, Bob, are coming from across the United States."

Most who have used the statistic attribute it to ATF. Others attribute the figure to officials within the Mexican government. But that’s not correct.

Without A "Trace"

In a joint statement presented to the Senate Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Crimes and Drugs, ATF Assistant Director for Field Operations William Hoover and Anthony Placido, assistant administrator of intelligence with the Drug Enforcement Administration, clarified that the 90 percent figure is true of guns that were submitted and could be traced:

Hoover and Placido, March 17, 2009: Firearms are routinely being transported from the U.S. into Mexico in violation of both U.S. and Mexican law. In fact, according to ATF’s National Tracing Center, 90 percent of the weapons that could be traced were determined to have originated from various sources within the U.S.

And Mexico recovers a lot more guns than it submits to the U.S. In December 2008, Mexican Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora put the number of recovered crime weapons in the country over the past two years at nearly 29,000, according to USA Today. And figures given by ATF make clear that the agency doesn’t trace nearly all of those.

According to ATF, Mexico submitted 7,743 firearms for tracing in fiscal year 2008 (which ended Oct. 1) and 3,312 guns in fiscal 2007. That adds up to a fraction of the two-year total given by Mexico’s attorney general. He may be referring to a slightly different 24-month period, but that can’t account for more than a part of the discrepancy. The number is growing, and already this year, Mexico has submitted more than 7,500 guns for tracing, according to ATF. But even if all those guns are added in, the total submitted for tracing since the start of fiscal 2007 doesn’t come close to the 29,000 figure that Mexico says it has recovered.

The Myth of 17 Percent

According to a Fox News report, titled "The Myth of 90 Percent," only "17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S." But the 17 percent figure is a myth, too. The reporters made some mistaken assumptions about how many guns had actually been traced to U.S. sources.

Fox News reporters William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott note, quite correctly, that Mexico doesn’t submit all the guns it recovers to the U.S. for tracing. Furthermore, Fox News reported, this is "because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S." And it quoted a law enforcement official as to why:

Fox News, April 2: "Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

If that’s true, then the guns given to ATF for tracing constitute a badly biased sample of all crime guns seized in Mexico. But the ATF officials we contacted don’t confirm that. What an ATF spokesperson would say is that the agency could trace more than 90 percent of all the guns submitted by Mexico to the U.S. – they either originated in this country or were imported here before heading south.

However that may be, the Fox figure of 17 percent is based on a misreading of some confusing House subcommittee testimony by ATF official William Newell. The Fox reporters come up with a figure of 5,114 guns traced to U.S. sources in fiscal 2007 and 2008. That figures to 17.6 percent of the 29,000 figure for guns seized in Mexico, as given by the country’s attorney general.

The 5,114 figure is simply wrong. What Newell said quite clearly is that the number of guns submitted to ATF in those two years was 11,055: "3,312 in FY 2007 [and] 7,743 in FY 2008." Newell also testified, as other ATF officials have done, that 90 percent of the guns traced were determined to have come from the U.S. So based on Newell’s testimony, the Fox reporters should have used a figure of 9,950 guns from U.S. sources. That figures out to just over 34 percent of guns recovered, assuming that the 29,000 figure supplied by Mexico’s attorney general is correct.

Even that number is too low. At our request, an ATF spokesman gave us more detailed figures for how many guns had been submitted and traced during those two years. Of the guns seized in Mexico and given to ATF for tracing, the agency actually found 95 percent came from U.S. sources in fiscal 2007 and 93 percent in fiscal 2008. That comes to a total of 10,347 guns from U.S. sources for those two years, or 36 percent of what Mexican authorities say they recovered.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
these 18, rest their souls, provoke us beyond any other group of eighteen
out of one hundred thousand victims, because why? really ... nearby cliffs?

This provoked us long before it impacted climbing.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1260099/Mexico-Drug-Wars-ot
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Fox News, Ron. yawn.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
Or,Coz,, your quite good at not seeing the forest fer the trees, and make mountains out of mole hill problems. Much like our politicians...;-)


edit: and i copied and pasted from factcheck.org on the gun figures,, which NO ONE has an accurate count.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Your the one blaming AL-KI-DER. How bizarre is that?
WBraun

climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
This kind of stupid sh#t can be stopped by having the civilian population of Mexico become organized and just going to the drug lords hangouts and kill em all.

Just slaughter all those fukers. Be done with those stupid dumbsh!ts.

No courts, arrests, no fuking trials just waste em all.

There's no other way.

All the legal ways are corrupt and run by all those stupid fukers .....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
no,, i said there IS al-kay-duh influence there. STOP twisting my words to suit your vein..


edit: Werener, Yes the mexican PO po is just a tool for others much the same with their military (so to speak) . Meanwhile the good poor folk of mexico get dismembered and limed away to nothing. Like in CiadJuarez and many other towns.


If there IS ANY country the US SHOULD invade,, it IS the one that inflicts us right from the border up. Why not solve mexicos problem and give it back to the good decent folks of Mexico. Maybe we can take the no admittance signs down from US SOIL and travel that country taking bird pics and climbing on what once (NOW) was off limits to you and me.
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