18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Messages 181 - 200 of total 308 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Of course the Mexicans would welcome us with open arms like in Iraq, and everyone would live happily ever after like in every other country we have intervened in.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
Weather it's a good idea or not. The problem is many Mexicans would feel the "Imperialistic" USA is just trying to take over Mexico and the Mexican news media would make it look that way as well.

Edit: F*#k that Pancho Villa guy Ron, the real revolutionary was Emiliano Zapata.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
The average Mexican would not, welcome the US. I've lived there, I speak the language, I know the country well. Your Iranian friend is an N: of 1. I also firmly believe change has to come from the inside for it to be lasting, we have zero track record of foreign intervention actually ever working to enact a lasting change in the last 30 or so years, we have a long track record of destabilizing countries, we have a debt to take care of, and an obvious non-violent solution to the problem. So I disagree.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
^^^+1
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Two middle aged white males were slaughtered by another middle aged white male in Phoenix. Then he killed himself. Violence is universal, not just limited to Mexicans and gang bangers.

I'd like to see the facts showing that illegal aliens take any significant portion of the USA's debt. I think there are plenty of freeloaders on the govt dime, corporations for instance. Why do we pay Big Oil billions in subsidys? Oh, I know, they're all-american. Or maybe not.

The USA needs to retool itself and focus on domestic issues before we can school the world.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
viva la raza
QITNL

climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Manny is absolutely correct. I'm also taking exception to Ron's racist comments regarding Mexico and Hispanics here and elsewhere on this forum.

I have zero-tolerance for this type of hate-speech. Ron, if you would like to continue that line of discussion, please take it to another forum.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Ron, whether I agree or disagree with what you just wrote is irrelevant, the outcome of what you are suggesting is what matters.

Sending troops into Mexico would not make the situation better, it would make it worse, we would have a much worse situation on our hands. I guarantee you of that. Our track record with foreign intervention is one of destabilization, not stabilization. We simply don't know what we are doing when it comes to these things, and our hands are tied as a country by a binary two party way of thinking that prevents us from being able to effect change in another country even if we knew how to do it.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
"Why the hell we put up with hundreds of thousands of KNOWN gang members is beyond me..."

The same reason we put up with ignorant racist f*#ks from moundhouse.
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Ron, the ethnicity figures I don't doubt; the hatred you feel from cholos, I don't doubt. The citizenship is what you referred to as far as feeding off the govt tit, illegal aliens. But ethnicity and citizenship are two different things.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
"You're a pathetic, lying as#@&%e."

As much as I love Mexico I experienced my share of racism down there. I was spit on, rocks thrown at me. A good friend of mine was murdered here in the US in what I think may have been a partially racist attack (he and the other victims were white, the killers were black and the attack was brutal and unfounded). It is a two way street. I think the answer is to not get on it. Accept people for who they are as individuals when you meet them.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Thank you, jghedge, for demonstrating bigotry comes from the Left, too.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
hey, what do you know. This has turned into a "Bash the Non-Liberals" thread.
I'm really surprised. Wouldn't expect it from this crowd. How original.
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
When you put it that way Ron, the cartels are here. Why bother heading south of the border? We are already fighting the battle you espoused earlier, just not south of the border.

Immigration is another thing. It deserves its own thread. I wish you luck in Reno. Arizona is no longer the quiet paradise it once was. People from the Mid-west ruined it...
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
Just kidding. I love my Michigan friends, I have a couple but seldom talk to them or see them.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
No, jghedge.

Your bigotry is the same as all other bigotry. Dividing people by groups, and then saddling the whole group with the reputation ( either real or imagined ) earned by the very worst individual in that group.

You can't see that though, because it's a rare bigot who's aware of his own irrational prejudices.
Handjam Belay

Gym climber
expat from the truth
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Well kidnapping and murdering aside at least we now know there is a known Cartel bar/hangout within a stone's throw from where we all camp.

Nothing to worry about with that. Right?
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Jghedge,

You can't tell me you don't see the irony in what you posted. Two way street dude, you are an integral part of the problem.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
My daughter, who is climbing down there, and probably partying tonight with a crew of 20; including Alex Honnold, just sent me this:

She is just trying to chill me out after hearing of the killings, but this is an interesting perspective.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/blog/2012/04/30/are-americans-safer-in-mexico-than-at-home/
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Calling racists dumb is so bigoted!
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