Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 29, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
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Even though I'm all for drug legalization - and it is the right thing to do, even if it makes things worse - I don't see how that would reduce the demand for drugs.
As long as demand remains high, the folks in Mexico will still fight over who manages the supply.
Legalizing drugs here won't do one damn thing to encourage the Mexicans to find a non-violent way to divvy up their sh#t. It may even make things worse down there, by injecting more money into the mix.
But legalizing drugs is still the right thing, and I'm not being facetious.
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jghedge
climber
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Jan 29, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
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"But legalizing drugs is still the right thing, and I'm not being facetious."
Yes, more drugs, and more guns - that will be wonderful
Makes perfect sense.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 29, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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A couple legal plants per dirty hippie stoner and demand will plummet. Treat it like home brewing.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 29, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
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For the guys I know who smoke, having "a couple plants" means they're about out of weed.
A couple dozen plants would be more like it.
But it would be much more effective to simply steal someone else's plants, just like people steal avocados in the night.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
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Riley.
Thank you for Maria's story.
You are right I simply do not understand. I said so in an earlier post.
What an amazing brave woman who saved her child. Maybe her nation a little.
There ARE things worth dying early for.
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Jim Brennan
Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
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Jan 29, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
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That is rough and very sad. The good doctor really had the courage of her convictions.
I think it's privileged thinking to believe that waving a magic wand about legalizing cocaine, heroin, meth and pot will lead to all bets off for the criminals.
Saying uncle is not something this national insurgency is about. It's run by military renegades who want Mexico and have the ultimate weapon for taking the USA - Drugs.
Why bother with ideals, bullets and hardship in a struggle for the USA that can be over faster by offering private, personal pleasure ?
It would be a no brainer to stop putting people in jail for using drugs but making illegal drugs legal will have no effect on the various cartels' paramilitary ambitions.
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coz
Gym climber
Belmont
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Jan 29, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
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I just read that Villarigosa, the Mayor of LA, wants to shut down all the legal weed.
Hmm, and I also read, most of what the Cartel is bringing to the US, is weed.
I think Chaz if you legalize weed for example, you would bring the profits to the US and California, and California is short on cash, so why would the Mayor not want to bring a huge influx of cash into California?
Now food for thought, Villarigosa is in favor, of keeping the profits in the hands of the Cartel?
Makes me think something rotten in Denmark?
Chaz's point is very good however, if you make all drugs legal, then the Cartel will move to other illegal activities, it is a far more complex problem then simply getting ST6 to take out the Cartel.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 29, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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The cartels might even take over legal industries.
Witness our own history of The Mob back east, being in charge of such things as trash disposal and concrete delivery.
The Mexican cartels could just as easily move into American street-legal drugs.
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Jan 30, 2013 - 12:04am PT
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Drug trafficking is and always has been about money, the probation in the 1920’s against alcohol created similar gang violence.
This isn’t about anything but pure monetary greed and intimidating your competition. The increase in gun trafficking is a direct byproduct of the defense of the cartels marketplace.
All addiction studies come to the same conclusion, a certain portion of the population will always become addicts and that percentage remains constant, the only noticeable difference is that as population centers increase so do the addicts.
As extreme as it may seem , legalizing and decriminalization of all drugs would not increase addiction but would remove the profitability and the criminal element.
Bootlegging of alcohol and overt gang violence significantly decreased after the removal of the probation in the 1930’s
I’m not suggesting that the cartels wouldn’t find other sources of illegitimate enterprises, but legalization would be a major counter offensive.
Arming additional american paramilitary and military organizations isn’t a solution. Violence on begets violence.
As unpopular as this may be, at one point there needs to be restrictions on firearms in the US.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 30, 2013 - 12:08am PT
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I don't like drugs (hell I don't like alcohol either) If I was God I would simply shoot the (mostly white) users in the back of the head with a 45 (kidding), but the fact is, the US had to legalize alcohol to take the hyper profits out the business and thus away from the mafia. Same thing seems to apply now to drugs in my opinion. Let RJ Reynolds get into pot - millions of acres worth. They are competitive as#@&%es no doubt, but they have a different way of doing business. As it is, my guess is that the cartels are funding the anti-legalization campaigns. And the LA mayor's campaign as well.
Similar story in Bolivia and Peru by the way. Drug lords are only drug lords because they are the only ones ruthless enough to be in an illegal business.
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Jim Brennan
Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
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Jan 30, 2013 - 12:21am PT
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Yes Rolf, all professional adventure is about money.
I do grind my teeth at the idea that nationally sanctioning stuff that is nakedly harmful will bring a brighter day.
These guys are about the money as well as power and there's many ways to get it. The best way is to show up and say "give me your money, or I will kill you". Or like posted above, say; "If you don't do what we say we will kill you". Or, well... you know what I'm saying. Drugs are just one way to get to the top.
Mexico is a wild place. I always thought their ideals were more American than America. There are more rich, powerful people per capita there than countries that play by the rules. There's no welfare there, so if you fail, it's all the way to the back.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jan 30, 2013 - 06:24am PT
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His dad told him that the cartel had come to town and taken all the men and young men with them at gun point. They took them to a field and told them that they no longer work int he fields that they work for them and they will carry drugs into the US for them and if anyone has a problem with this they should stand up now and tell them.
We've been through all this 20 years ago in Colombia. What I do for a living is represent a few thousand people killed by Colombian paramilitaries in a lawssuit against Chiquita Brands, who were paying them for protection. In one case, a truck full of paras arrived at a soccer game, and kidnapped about 20 teenage players. They were made to unload about 3000 AK-47s from one of Chiquita's banana boats, then taken to a remote camp and either joined the organization, or were never seen again.
Everything everyone said here has already been said about Colombia too. The only reason things have gotten better is that the problem is moving to Mexico.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 30, 2013 - 06:59am PT
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Climbski2: Riley.
Thank you for Maria's story....
What an amazing brave woman who saved her child. Maybe her nation a little.
There ARE things worth dying early for.
Ditto that^^^ I really appreciate you posting that story. It stays with me.
Aside from that...
Weed isn't the main problem people.. cocaine is. Pot is one thing, but legalizing an addictive drug like cocaine in the US would be a bad call Ripley.
@Rockermike:
If I was God I would simply..
I would simply evolve a convenient mold or pest that caused every coca plant on the continent to die off. Fortunately for the cartels, I'm not God. Maybe we can enlist Monsanto to do some good for once? They could engineer a coca-specific Round-up to bomb the plantations with. Game over man.
Just fantasizing here.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Jan 30, 2013 - 07:08am PT
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The trumpet player made a pass at the wrong girl...
I'm a trumpet player and I'm still here. So that wasn't me.
Has anyone hear from Ksolem? he's a trumpet player, too. Hope he didn't get whacked.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Jan 30, 2013 - 07:39am PT
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20 years ago a good friend of mine was "arrested" by police officers in Mexico City, driven at gunpoint to a dark alley where they were blindfolded and robbed. Things have only got worse since then. Sorry, Portrero will never be on my bucket list.
TE
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 30, 2013 - 08:03am PT
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I driven down into Mexico three times in the last year, twice by my self and never an issue. Been to Mexico maybe 15-20 times and never an issue.
Last time was down deep into Copper Canyon to Urique, didn't have issue.
Mexicans are cool people and quite friendly. It is shame the press they get.
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pelut espania
Big Wall climber
Espania
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Jan 30, 2013 - 08:07am PT
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Amigos! They are Mexicanos and not the cultured Spanish gentlemans so come to my country and see the humans not the criminals of Mexico! Viva Espania!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 30, 2013 - 08:14am PT
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So they killed her, after all. Maria Santos Gorrostieta.
I remember her story from a few years ago and I remember her thoughtfulness and courage.
Yes, it is heartbreaking. :(
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Jan 30, 2013 - 08:17am PT
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Bob, you got lucky
Enjoimx.What is the solution?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jan 30, 2013 - 08:29am PT
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" They are Mexicanos and not the cultured Spanish gentlemans"
That is f*#king hilarious...the same spanish that wiped out most natives in the Americas without blinking an eye.
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