and I bet you thought Twight was dead????

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Did somebody say Lance Armstrong?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
I don't quite see the parallel of using O2 on the big E and bike doping. There is much to criticize about the average shmoe on everest but none of it involves overt deception nor any flagrantly fraudulent profiting. Its a bit like mocking some fatso drunk for inner tubing down a river and bragging about it at work. No doubt it would really be more rad if he was a proper marleborro man in a kayak but thats our problem, not his. He isn't doing anything other than what he set out to so what's with our indignation?

LA on the other hand is a fraud. A really cool and rad fraud but a fraud non the less. I think Twight is right about the miss placed hero worship and I'm glad the chickens are coming home to roost for Lance but it will be interesting to see whether he gets a slap on the wrist in deference to his awesomeness, which is what that useless tw#t Oprah was doing. There's no reason why he can't rebuild his life - starting at the bottom after paying off all his debts.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Have never used Diamox myself. Fortunately I acclimatize well and easily. A few people I know who struggle at altitude (they take a couple days longer to feel ok) and have tried Diamox find the side effects worse than the benefits. My gf, for example, had so much disconcerting body tingling and nausea from the drug that mere altitude sickness was much preferable.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
A little something Twightful for y'all...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=963476&msg=1494155#msg1494155

The man has never been short on shrieks or opinions. LOL
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
About diamox - apart from a a dieretic effect is there a physiological problem? I remember peter hacket said he took a quarter tab a day above 10 k. I hear people are taking viagra now!
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
Jan 29, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Yeah...the worst side-effect is that Diamox makes beer (or any other carbonated beverage) taste like shit!
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
Well that shit's out of the kit for sure then. You can cheat, use IV drugs.. a helicopter or a tram for all I care..

But don't be f*#king with the BEER!
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 29, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
Twight: the gift that keeps on giving :-&#41;
Twight: the gift that keeps on giving :-)
Credit: Tami
cowpoke

climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
Cheating is commonplace and doping is rampant, even at the lowest levels of sport
Such a great line.

This outstanding piece deserves attention among non-climbers...ny times op-Ed level.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 29, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
Is Twit still an as#@&%e, or did he get over that?
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
So Mallory, Irvine, Hillary, and Tenzing all cheated their way up Everest and didn't inspire anyone in the process?!

LOL!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Paul, they were climbing into the unknown with equipment....ropes protection gear, clothing, tents, sleeping bags, and oxygen gear that people today would be aghast at using. They also didn't have satellite connections to get instant weather reports and the body of knowledge concerning 8000 meter peaks was minimal. Most importantly, they didn't have fixed ropes on every slope that was a teeny bit steep.
Given all of that....yes, their achievements were notable, and, yes, they are very deserving of our respect.
Something you already know.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
So Mallory, Irvine, Hillary, and Tenzing all cheated their way up Everest and didn't inspire anyone in the process?!

At that point it was not a proven fact that humans CAN get up that thing without O2. They were in an unknown zone.

Now we do know it is possible for those who train hard enough and get lucky enough. It would be cool if getting up Everest would be done only by those who do it without O2 (and other drugs that bring the mountain down to your level). Than the achievement would actually mean something. Something only a few can do, you know? Kind of like red pointing a 5.14 or something, not every guy with enough money can do it. Have to put a life time of work into it.
cowpoke

climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
The historical point that Paul brings up is interesting, but I think it is worth considering that through the history of sport people have felt free to simultaneously: (1) admire the achievements of those who played by a different set of rules than the present day athlete (and, in some instances, used methods that are called cheating today) and (2) be persistent in the belief that today's definitions of cheating are valid.

One case, in point, is Hall of Fame football player Lester Hayes and his use of "stickum." Simultaneously, history shines favorably (the hall) on his achievements and unfavorably (continued ban on "stickum") on his methods, because that "cheating" was not yet against the rules.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
I never even heard about Diamox before this thread. Guess I have to look it up. My best altitude heights are the three Mexican volcanoes. Not that difficult and I was the only one in the party to do all three (yeah, big deal, point is I had no altitude problems, but then, in the Death Zone, it is different of course).

Oxygen use, hmmm, if I was to climb an 8,000 meter peak, would I at least carry a canister? I don't know, but I hope you can ask me about it someday.

As long as I do not leave it laying as garbage on the mountain.

But I agree the use of O2 on Everest is contentious. But I think that more criticism should be aimed the climbing pimp companies that line their pockets by allowing "non-climbers" to go on expeditions.

Am I being judgmental? Why not, this is a very judgmental thread. That said, I am trying to cut down on being judgmental (and opinionated), as I just had a major falling out with my oldest brother over judgment, words and email flames (my fault but he should know better. Hah hah).

Will we reconcile, I doubt it, unfortunately.

I don't know much about Mark Twight. But I have met Jello a couple of times and have the utmost respect for him.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Donini and Vitaly....Paul obviously agrees with you. One needs only to watch Conrad Anker's "The Wildest Dream" to see just how hard it was and still is to climb Everest with the equipment Mallory used despite Conrad's modern knowledge of what it takes to climb Everest. Agree with climbski2, especially in the context of climbing in which everything and anything are used to achieve. As long as your honest, who gives a flip? And also agree with Vitaly that you can make your own rules, especially in a less public or societal (at large)venue like climbing but you should still be honest about it. As climbski2 says 'the only real rule' which is universal. If Armstrong was honest the first time he was asked, all would be forgiven. And it may be too late for Ray Lewis who has already denied use and claims to be an instrument of God. Although Twight makes for great reading and makes points most of us probably agree with, it is hard to take from such a hypocrite.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
I have to take Diamox to cross Vail Pass.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Armstrong was a totally different deal. Professional athlete being paid for what he was doing and publicly denying that was using the drugs to gain advantage. I know people that didn't race in Europe because of the drug scene. It affected them.

Diamox or O2 for Joe Blow is different. Not much different in my mind than hiring sherpas or hiring a trainer. Not really how I'd want to do it, but them doing it doesn't really affect my experience unless they are littering O2 bottles all over the place.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
^^^^ in Twights defense, he admits that
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 29, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
If everyone would just stop using oxygen, there would be a level playing field...
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