and I bet you thought Twight was dead????

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RDB

Social climber
wa
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 29, 2013 - 03:03am PT
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-cheaters-have-done-to-us.html

Add to that list Diamox for clients, guides and the idoits on Rainier.

Did it myself on occasion bitd but agreed with Twight on this and would take the label of cheater even further now obviously.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 03:13am PT
Marc Twight isn't dead. He's based out of Salt Lake City. Among other things he's been doing some personal training for movie actors including the recent movie '300' and it's sequel. He's totally into road cycling these days. Our paths crossed on bikes in the Dolomites this summer. BTW, he is just as badass on a bike as he was on rock, ice and snow!
orangesporanges

Social climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 04:43am PT
A decade and more ago I cared deeply about the way we climbed more than whether we were successful
People lie on resumés and cheat on tests to get jobs

MFT has stated that he attempted Everest alpine style
They turned back when his team mate got crook
Some may think he burdened others
When he used oxygen cached by another team to treat his crook climbing buddy
Because they hadn't bought along any oxygen themselves

MFT dumped rope up on Denali
Because he no longer needed it to complete the route

MFT once....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:21am PT
Twight's not dead???

DMT
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:44am PT
Dead to me after that article bashing all the ordinary/poser climbers on Denali while his team abandons/litters their tents and gear to move fast like real posers and then basicly needs to be rescued by using other climbers tents and gear on the decent to survive at 17k
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 29, 2013 - 07:52am PT
"When I look across a variety of disciplines it is apparent that no one is special and no one is immune: when a group of human beings get together some percentage of them are going to cheat or be susceptible to the idea of it. Sadly, it appears this is true for any sport..."--O.P.

If I were to use an inhaler on the YPB, would I be cheating? Would you deny me the pleasure of announcing I had done it? Who on earth would care,
or would I have the approbation of the community for having done it as an older climber still "with it"? There is no difference in the ethic involved. You either have assistance or not.

It is legal, it's got that going for it.

crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:09am PT
Any climber that uses sticky rubber or cams is dead to me.
Degaine

climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Can there be cheating in an activity that has no rules or organized competition?

I have always appreciated Twight’s articles and that he expresses his point of view, whether I agree or not.

Per the article referenced, I’m curious as to where he draws the line. Given the tone of the article, by his definition, only Goran Kropp has climbed Everest by fair, “non cheating” means.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 29, 2013 - 11:46am PT
I have always respected is climbing prowess, but thought he was an egotistical ass.
I've changed my mind. One just has to understand where he is coming from
RDB

Social climber
wa
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2013 - 11:49am PT
"Dead to me after that article bashing all the ordinary/poser climbers on Denali while his team abandons/litters their tents and gear to move fast like real posers and then basicly needs to be rescued by using other climbers tents and gear on the decent to survive at 17k"

then you are gonna just love what is coming next :)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Funny how well "judge not lest you be judged" applies here.

I suppose we have all made statements about others climbing that were definitely negative. We can tend to rip into others especially among friends.

Twight has printed some of that type of stuff. So it's not too surprising that it comes back on him when something he has done might not quite hold up to highest possible standards.

What a difference from someone like Alex Lowe. He seemed to like everyone, I never heard him say or be reported to say crap about others. He's a guy everyone liked.

Both amazing Alpinists yet perceived so differently.

Some of what Twight writes seems to be a bit of a "schtick" that he uses cause it sells. I've heard folks who know him say a lot of good things about him. Funny intelligent, decent guy in real life. He certainly has a way of putting things such that you tend to think on it. Maybe even agree even if it does sound jerkish.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
I have always appreciated Twight’s articles and that he expresses his point of view, whether I agree or not.

Yes that! It is nice to hear what is REALLY on someone's mind.

AND I will give a lot of credibility to one who has the balls to get on Slovac Direct with a day pack (among MANY other routes that appear semi insane).

But has he done steroids (or other performance enhancing drugs) himself? I don't know. Trust no one. Especially when they talk a lot (like Armstrong, who sued everyone who called him a cheater).

then you are gonna just love what is coming next :)

so what's next?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
10b4me, you aren't far off....however, i do agree with him in this area.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
What Tradman said.
RDB

Social climber
wa
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
The Donini I knew had an ego as well and could be a prick. Just not generally an egotistical prick.

Anyone that sticks their head up and voices an opinion gets my respect. You don't have to love them or the opinion.

Slovak? Easy to judge on that one...harder to understand the effort or style 13 years later. Not a lot then or now that have played that game.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
Everest is dead to me, and my friends who are still on it.
It's just Public Assisstance for Sherpas and mountain pimps.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
As to the cheating thing and O2. GAAAAAAG ME WITH A SPOON PLEASE!!!!!

What an old and tired argument. It's like a cheap troll post. Right up there with bolting controversies. 40 years of this or more. Seriously?!

Whatever tools you use to play this pointless game are up to you. You make the rules at least when it comes to technique. Just be honest is one of the few real rules.
RDB

Social climber
wa
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Really? How about Diamox on Denali...."just to be safe".

You good with that?

I have friends that use Diamox on Rainier..."just to be safe".

You good with that?

I don't see the difference between that and testosterine use in age group atheletes.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Actually no, I don't care if they use diamox, or went on 02 at 14k feet lol or meth or speed or HGH or any of that crap. But if you use a tool on a route then it should be in the TR.

I personally may not have any interest in using such but I don't give a crap if others who have nothing to do with me use it. We all have our own peculiar mix of reasons for and standards by which we want to climb.

But don't go blaze up some heinous alpine route in 2 days of non-stop climbing using speed and then not mention that it is how you managed not to need sleep. Do what you like, say what you did. It aint cheating if everyone knows the rules you played the game by.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 29, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Sadly, when someone who has climbed Everest with the aid of supplemental O2 and a "servant" to carry the extra bottles and prepare the route tells a rapt audience of non-climbers that he climbed Everest that is all he says. He fixates on the outcome and not the means used to achieve it. And if the audience isn't well-informed enough to ask about the means the speaker lets the omission slide, allowing them to think better of him.

And if you do point out all the aid the person used you will be looked at as a mean douche bag. By most at least.

I dunno this Everest/Lance Armstrong topic been beaten to death lately. There will be crowds, there will be oxygen/diamox, people won't be able to go for speed records without O2 because of the crowds. Steroids/O2 were there BITD too. It is not just this generation that does it. But post "Everest Beyond The Limit" a lot of people got into mountaineering just to climb Everest, I bet.

EMBARRASSING Confession: I got into mountaineering after I watched Everest Beyond the limit. I bought both seasons and thought it was the hardest thing ever- to climb the 7 summits. As I started getting out in Sierra (in 2010) I developed love for the outdoors in general and for the challenge of climbing peaks that are more difficult. In 2011 I did Denali unguided. We failed to do west rib because of conditions but getting to the top was a challenge. Even though I did not like the crowds, it was still a good experience. Than I picked up rock climbing because it was more of a challenge, and I could take harder routes on peaks. A challenge that is so complicated that you can never be as good as you want in all of it. Crack climbing, ice climbing, slab climbing, clean aid climbing/walls, nailing, face climbs (crimpy overhanging shit), mixed climbing. Lots of variety here! So I guess I owe Everest a thank you, but in the mean time have no desire to climb it.

I have friends that use Diamox on Rainier..."just to be safe".

You good with that?

I guess you missed the thread I started on summitpost about Diamox use. Pretty much everyone said I was a dick for even suggesting it shouldn't be used.

It aint cheating if everyone knows the rules you played the game by.

Very good point also. Not everyone has to play by your rules. Mountaineering is personal, and people usually do not see things same way.
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