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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 26, 2013 - 02:55am PT
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I think all parents ought to be involved in home-schooling, but not necessarily to the extent of keeping their children at home and away from school.
I find that a bizarre notion.
sort of like going out for a nice dinner at a nice restaurant....as long as one does not leave home. Watch on TV, perhaps?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 26, 2013 - 03:02am PT
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Ken, I think you misunderstood me. I was perhaps a bit too obscure in trying to extend the concept of home-schooling to also mean parental involvement (which, by the way, can also go overboard...), but I like the idea that schooling can be something that occurs both in the home and the school, and that there are alternatives to the view that home-schooling and public-schooling represent an unbreachable dichotomy.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 26, 2013 - 03:22am PT
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As a single dad who works there was no way I could have home schooled. The idea had some appeal. On the other hand, my son was very introverted, still is, but school was great socialization for him. For the first three years I volunteered once a week for 4 hours in the classroom. The time I spent in the class was very inspirational. I think teaching the lower grades is one of the toughest jobs there is. We are lucky to have amazing schools and teachers here. A thanks to the voters who passed prop 30. On Monday my sons fourth grade class is going from 39 to 29 students, that is really make a big difference in the quality of education.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 26, 2013 - 03:38am PT
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rg, perhaps I'm misunderstanding something.
When a child is home-schooled, is that not usually done by the parents? I've never encountered another model. (not talking about short-term illnesses, etc)
To hear you talk about the importance of involvement of the parents seems as strange to me as suggesting that it is also important for the student to be involved.......
Perhaps you are advocating that homeschooling must be involved with regular school. I'm not clear on that concept.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 26, 2013 - 03:51am PT
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Sorry Ken, it is clear that indeed you don't understand what I've said and then tried to clarify, and at the moment I'm out of ideas about how to say it any better. The only observation I can make is that some of the things you've said seem to be based on extracting fragments of what I wrote without attending to the entire context.
Or maybe I'm just incoherent on this subject, although I can assure you that I understand myself perfectly...
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 26, 2013 - 09:49am PT
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Rgold: " but I like the idea that schooling can be something that occurs both in the home and the school, and that there are alternatives to the view that home-schooling and public-schooling represent an unbreachable dichotomy. "
I like that idea too.
Reality... most people need both parents working to afford the cost of living, so public school is the only option, but there's no reason home-schooling can't exist in tandem. I'm the only child of two LA Unified educators. I went to public school, but I can assure you they didn't leave my education solely to the system.
Edit to add: Oy- glad I don't have a kid and don't have to be making these decisions. The public system seems pretty f*#ked these days.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:28am PT
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My opinion is skewed because of a small sample size, but the few I know who home shooled their kids were illiterate idiots with poor parenting skills.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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It is obvious that one size does not fit all children. No cragman, not all of us can home school. Implying that those of us that do not home school are slacking is insulting. On the flip side, those of us that support public education for all children are somehow less selfish and are doing more for society (I do not belive that). Donald's comments are expected, he always has to shoehorn every issue into his rigid ideologic box.
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doughnutnational
Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:47am PT
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Why is home schooling not for most people?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:51am PT
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Well frankly, most people are idiots.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 10:59am PT
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Donut,
It takes a full life commitment by both parents. I think that's probably the big reason. My wife is the most selfless woman I know. It's a lifestyle for the home that many aren't willing to do.
If you do it half way, the kids really suffer. You get either dummies or weirdos. Ok. That's kind of a joke. But I think it's not for everyone because of the sheer time and diligence it takes to do right. And both parents need to be on the same page.
But the perks sure are worth it for us.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Jan 26, 2013 - 11:19am PT
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"The public school system in this state exist first and foremost for the public employee unions and their bought and paid for politicians in Sacramento."
Donald Thompson-
As a teacher in a public school and with kids in public schools, I can tell you know nothing. You are just another right wing nut job. Your simple statements are laughable. You are perfect for Scientology and Fox News.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 11:45am PT
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Dave,
I do have an overwhelming sense that this is the best thing for our family, but I hope it's not misconstrued as arrogance. A great public education is a wonderful asset to lots of kids. Thinking something is better does not always go hand in hand with arrogance.
But I do agree, many homeschool parents get that way.
So do private school teachers and parents.
The same goes with some charterschoolers, colleges....boulderers vs. trad climbers....alpinists vs. gym climbers. We can all get artogant if we're not careful.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 11:48am PT
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Thanks for the testimony Limpingcrab.
But you DID turn out strange.
Limpingcrab likes long approaches, chossy first ascents and backcountry lichen fests. My children will climb directissimas, wide open slabs and clean splitters when they grow up.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 26, 2013 - 11:54am PT
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In our state all home schooled kids must take and pass a state test PROVING that they are hitting the standards. No way around it. If you fail the test, boom, you have to pick another option and public school is the easy way that most take. Anyone who looks into it seriously soon realizes that home schooling is better.
Which doesn't mean I'd do it, just that it is better for the kids. Despite our involvement, our son was starting to fail, falling through the cracks back in 6th grade. It was one of the top ranked public schools in the city. We put him in a private school and the difference was like night and day. He did 2 years in it, and when he started back in the 2nd highest tested public high school he was so far ahead of everyone that it was both laughable, amazing and boring to the lad. Of course, being a lazy but straight A student helped his self esteem. Unfortunately, his amazing math abilities he'd developed in private school soon went to sh#t ... as might be expected.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
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Fructose,
We do a good bit of educating our kids, even from a young age, on world religions. And they get good literature from a broad range of writers. In History, for example, Sierra might read something by CS Lewis along side something from Sartre or Thoreau. Then she writes on them and has to hold the two in tension with eachother.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
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Have your kids seen the full series of Cosmos, all 13 episodes, by Carl Sagan, in a systematic study?
That would be a strong "litmus test," I'd say.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 26, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
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I was homeschooled, and I think I have a unique perspective because I was homeschooled until 1994, which might be one of the more recent tenures on Supertopo... haha....
My sister was borderline 'special needs' and would have been put into a system that would never have left her out. She now graduated from college and is a professional in her field, but seizures when she was young put her in a disability group she wouldn't have been able to leave.
+1 home schooling.
Now then there's me, the younger brother... who had to transition from a christian family homeschool to a poor area... in middle school, the worst age for public school. It took YEARS for me to socially catch up, and to be quite frank many aspects of who I am and my interactions with people are kinda funky even still. Not knowing you had to ASK PERMISSION to use the restroom, not knowing that there was such thing as "smear the queer," having no clue that kids would just beat the f*#k out of whoever wasn't cool... yeah that was a fun realization for a little kid. Luckily for me I got a growth spurt and learned how to fight so I at least coasted thru public school to be an extremely late bloomer.
Long story short - socially adapting them to the real world is tricky and if you haven't provided that as well as their education you are doing them a horrible disservice. My parents had no way of knowing and their bubble of a church was too busy making sure we knew the world was 10,000 years old and we made sure to tune out evolution.
If you are doing this for an idealogical reason, it is very likely one or more of your kids will resent the sh#t out of you for that once they figure out science. I would defer to the Catholic church, who has evolutionary biologists and physicists on staff researching the big bang. Science doesn't disprove religion and the other way around, don't confuse them.
I don't know what would have been right to do. For me maybe stay in home school my whole life. For my brother, he should have been in public school right away. Personalities are different. I agree that the educational system is F*#KED - but the idea that you have to learn how to interact with other people and know the full spectrum of human behavior... that is important. It is important to know that there are people out there who will f*#k with you, who want to hurt you and who will lie to you and use you to get ahead.
You should meet those people early.
p.s.
you seem like an amazing dad and I don't think at all you will make any mistakes in raising your kids, just letting you know my experiences. I would have been psyched to have been raised by a dude like you :) my parents were great too.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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No Fructose, they haven't. They're too busy sittin around in their jammies, eating sugar cereal, watchin rer-runs of Here Comes Honey Boo .
But Gabriel's doing a 1:100,000 scale of a lagging strand dna sequence in Legos and is prepared to defend his stance on Intelligent Design vs. Evolution to some college professors next week.
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