Discussion Topic |
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 23, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
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Beginning tomorrow.
http://shackletonepic.com/
"In honor of Shackleton’s remarkable 800 nautical mile voyage across the Southern Ocean, from Elephant Island to South Georgia, and his crossing of its mountainous interior, the Shackleton Epic expedition will sail Alexandra Shackleton, a purpose-built, exact replica of Shackleton’s 22.5-foot (6.9m) lifeboat, James Caird across the same stretch of open ocean and then attempt to cross the rugged peaks of South Georgia."
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
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I don't think the original crew had Musto HPX Goretex foulies.
Otherwise....AWESOME
Susan
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
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Will they be Tweeting?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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SC
I doubt anyone makes the clothing they had back then. Probably the knowlege and skills have disappeared.
I remember some of the handmade Eskimo winter wear I had when my parents taught in a village. Heavier perhaps than current stuff... but amazingly effective and durable. In some ways still superior.
I'd imagine sailors arctic (antarctic in this case) gear over 100 years ago was pretty good too. Must have been or they wouldn't have survived.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
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I've been in the freezing ass wet cold too much of my life to volunteer for that shit!!
I know how to deal with it, but I don't have to like it or seek it.....
GOOD LUCK TO THE CREW!!!!
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
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I doubt anyone makes the clothing they had back then. Probably the knowlege and skills have disappeared.
The environmentalists would be all over you for killing the animals that made it possible!
Anyway, I speak in jest, I sail and wouldn't go anywhere without my Goretex foulies, even if I were doing a remake of an epic. My partner, Ferretlegger has wintered over in Antartica and has fond memories of it. Wants to sail down to South Georgia He was also once in the British Museum looking at a display and turned around and there was the James Caird! He said it was just sitting there, basically in a corner, anyone could touch it. He said you could easily see the tool marks from where Chippy did some retrofitting.
I think the Shackelton story is my all time fav adventure story. Sad he died so young.
Susan
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 23, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
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How about the luck and will of Shackleton?
I'll bet 100 other men attempting that sail/hike would have died of hypothermia in the boat.
Even with modern gear this run is no walk in the park. Plus Shackleton made it through a tidal wave.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
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A tidal wave? How would he have known? Tidal waves at sea are unnoticeable.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Jan 23, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
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I wish them a safe journey.
'The Boss' has been one of my greatest heroes since I read his story as a child. Of course these adventurers aren't truly replicating Shackleton's journey. To do that they would have to spend a winter icebound, watch their ship crushed and swallowed by the ice, perform considerable amount of sledging only to find the ice currents have negated any forward progress, have the ice break up around them , etc. etc. All this before arriving at Elephant Island.
That said, I think this is really cool and I'll be following along from my warm house with a cup of hot chocolate in hand.
Thanks for posting this Guido.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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Wishing them a safe journey as well.
Shackelton's survival story is amazing.
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Modesto Mutant
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
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Is there a greater survival story? Through all that hardship and over such a long period of time through seemingly impossible odds and no one dies.
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knudeNoggin
climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
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I don't think the original crew had Musto HPX Goretex foulies.
Otherwise....AWESOME Ha, good eye, Susan!
But not quite "otherwise" even so: the original crew didn't sail in January, either!
--from a quick search:
January is the second warmest month of the year in Antarctica,
according to data gathered at the American Amundsen-Scott station from 1957 to 1988.
whereas Shackleton sailed in April-May10 :
The average high temperatures in April and May in Antarctica are both about -70 degrees F,
That is some kind of "high" !! (Could a weather forecaster say that with a straight face?)
And he persisted in the rescue --something not all of those old explorers did. (And this didn't occur in the warmer months, either!)
www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/shackleton/1914/timeline.html
April 24
Shackleton and five others depart for South Georgia in James Caird
May 10
After 17 days in stormy seas, and with superior navigation by Frank Worsley,
the James Caird miraculously arrives on the west coast of South Georgia
May 19
Shackleton, Worsley, and Crean set off
to cross South Georgia's glacier-clad peaks to east-coast whaling stations
May 20
Having trekked without a break for 36 hours
over glacier-clad mountains thousands of feet high,
Shackleton, Worsley, and Crean arrive at Stromness whaling station
May 23
Shackleton, Worsley, and Crean depart on the English-owned Southern Sky
to rescue men on Elephant Island, but are stopped by ice 100 miles short of the island
June 10
Uruguayan government loans the survey ship Instituto de Pesca No 1,
which comes within sight of Elephant Island before pack ice turns it back
July 12
Chartered by the British Association, the schooner Emma sets out from Punta Arenas,
but gets to within 100 miles of Elephant Island before storms and ice force it to return
August 25
Chilean authorities loan the Yelcho, a small steamer, which sets sail with Shackleton,
Worsley, and Crean for Elephant Island
[photo caption]
With the Yelcho heaving into view on the horizon, members of an ecstatic Elephant Island crew build a smoky fire (upper left) to signal her.
*kN*
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jan 23, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
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Do yourself a favor and read "Endurance" if you have not already.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jan 24, 2013 - 12:16am PT
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"Endurance" is a book that everyone should have (in hard copy) on their shelves and in their hearts.
Matt Rutherford was talking about Cape Horn. If you catch it in early January, you have a good chance of good weather. He said it was nice and pleasant. For a different take on a shoestring attempt to retrace Shackleton's voyage to South Georgia, read "Berserk." Those two guys are lucky to still be breathing. They crossed Drake Passage too late in the season and were repeatedly rolled, and then had a big portlight get blown out. Chest deep water in the cabin, lots of fun reading.
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Fishy
climber
Zurich, Switzerland
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Jan 24, 2013 - 05:51am PT
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You guys are missing one of the key features of their expedition - they are only using the period equipment. There will be no Goretex or modern clothing involved.
To this day, no-one has successfully recreated Shackleton’s complete ‘double’ journey across sea and land using traditional gear. British/Australian adventurer Jarvis, 46, a veteran of multiple polar expeditions, believes it will be the most challenging expedition of his life.
The only concessions to the use of period equipment will be the storage of modern emergency equipment and radios on board Alexandra Shackleton, and the presence of a support vessel, Australis in the Southern Ocean. Both modern emergency equipment and Australis’s assistance will only be used in the event that Alexandra Shackleton gets into serious trouble.
Obviously having the safety boat there for the crossing makes a massive difference. I cant comprehend the boldness of the explorers of that age.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 12, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
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Yup , started watching it. Very interesting. However, they didn't start from shore so the first little "gift"
Susan
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 12, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
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It showed them getting on the Alexandra from a dinghy. The voice over said something about they didn't want it to break apart on the rocks. Don't get me wrong, I think that what the re enactment is doing is epic in its own right.
Susan
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 12, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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The expedition had a photographer who continued taking pictures. They are amazing in their quality. If you do not read the book at least get it to see the pictures.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jan 12, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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The English language book I have is titled:
Endurance by Alfred Lansing
Also of interest might be:
Shackleton's Boat Journey by F.A. Worsley
Worsley was on the journey with Shackleton so it is a first person account!
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 12, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
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Near the end of the trek across S. Georgia, they are caught up too high, too late in the day, with too little steam left, and it's too cold. Shakleton knows that in order to survive, they must get down quickly, so he decides they will slide down this huge, steep snow field, without knowing what's at the bottom.
The two men with him thought he was crazy, but, he kept asking them, can we stay where we are? So they slid screaming down this snow field, and they arrived at the bottom unharmed. Amazing!!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 12, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
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Outstanding reenactment of an amazing feat of seafaring that was the fitting end to the greatest exploration epic that I am aware of.
Thanks for the heads up Joe!
When in doubt, glissade! Worked for Woodrow Wilson Sayre too.
An unseen hand guides the brave and true adventurers and brings us home. Endurance is shimmering evidence of that simple truth.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jan 12, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
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I encountered the story of the Endurance around 1975, one of the postdocs in a lab where I worked as a lab peon was a sailor and lent me Lansing's book. I made the mistake of glancing at it that evening...and read straight through the night going to work the next morning sans sleep but plenty energized. It should be absolutely required reading for everyone in junior high or so. Incredible story and bunch of guys. One of the highlights for me of all time going to museums was an exhibit about 10 or 12 years ago at the NY Museum of Natural History with a lot of actual stuff from the trip plus other similar contemporary gear, lots of photos many of which were not in any book I had seen, and the centerpiece was the actual James Caird! Though it was roped off, I was not going to leave without having laid a hand upon it to absorb some juju. And they had a sextant set up with visual of pitching and rolling seas, so you could try out your ability to get a sight from which navigation might be possible if you could peel the soggy pages of the book of tables apart.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 12, 2014 - 11:44pm PT
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A truly sad footnote is that about half of the men that were saved died within the next couple years....World War I
Susan
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 13, 2014 - 12:04am PT
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Did they use rendered penguin fat for cooking and light?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 13, 2014 - 12:04am PT
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And the other 800 pound gorilla in the story is something many of us probably can relate to one
way or another - the rather less than inspiring details of Shackleton's life back in England.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jan 13, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
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More important than penguin fat was seal blubber. At one point, while still on the ice foes, before they got in their 3 boats, they were VERY low on cooking fat for their stoves. Just before they ran out, they were attacked by a couple of leopard seals and shot them, thus renewing their fat supply.
The resourcefulness of those men was incredible. Two of many, many examples: Once they reached Elephant Island, they outfitted the James Caird with parts from the other 2 boats to make it more sea-worthy. Once they reached S. Georgia Island and found that they couldn't sail to windward around either end of the island, they removed the screws from the deck of their boat and screwed them through their boots to create make-shift crampons for climbing the ice and snow over the island to reach the whaling station.
What an epic adventure. And fabulous photos!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 13, 2014 - 06:50pm PT
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Does add new depth of meaning to the phrase DEAD RECKONING.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 13, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
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I know a guy who worked in the merchant marines out of Australia, basically small-crew but very big oil tankers. He learned to navigate by the stars in case everything else fails.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jan 13, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
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Another adventure sequel.....a pale imitation. Chouinard once said that adventure only begins when things start to go wrong. Modern communications will enable the "adventure" to turn out well no matter what the turn of events.
Should be fun though!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jan 13, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
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Watching the first episode right now. Looks interesting.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jan 13, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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While Guido has more than adequate electronics aboard his boat, "Shanachie," when I sailed with him from N.Z. to French Polynesia, he made me practice noon "sun sights" with his sextant, so we'd have back up equipment and people aboard in case of whatever might happen.
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John Morton
climber
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Jan 25, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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Just finished watching part 3. A difficult journey for sure, and difficult to endure for the viewer. This extreme adventure film style is getting to me: the endlessly repeated litany of "no GPS", "100 yr. old clothing" etc., the talking heads, the relentless minor key soundtrack, the slanted editing that replays the biggest waves and the steepest slopes.
Shackleton's epic is all the greater for the contrast with this trip, which utterly failed to reproduce the conditions of 1916. A support boat that warns them off the rocks, with radio contact and satellite weather data and a doctor? Some North Face tents for when something goes wrong? And they skipped the part about camping for 7 months on ice floes before setting sail. And my favorite, the water bags of rotten hairy sealskin.
It's like a tightrope walk with a tether, or a free solo with a net just off camera. I'm not saying they should do it for real and die, I'm saying it makes no sense except as a paying TV gig.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
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Mongrel, it was in 2000 I believe.
I caught it at the Field Museum.
They had reproduced the James Caird and surrounded it with big curved screens playing huge rolling waves.
I smuggled a camera in and snuck some shots. Good luck on banning cameras now.
The coolest thing was stopping on the way to Chicago at Norlin Library where I was given special permission to put on gloves and examine Frank Hurley's original prints from the expedition.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Jan 25, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
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It is interesting to look at the differing experiences of the icebound Shackleton expedition with those of the ill-fated Franklin expedition.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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I was going to right a scathing review of 'Chasing Shackleton', but John Morton(4 posts above) nailed it! Shackleton was probably laughing at all of them when they visited his grave site at the end of the show.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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It was a bit over dramatized but still a pretty good effort and I'm sure it was difficult for them.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Don't know if any of you have ever experienced or heard of a phenomenon called the "Third Man Factor," but apparently Shackelton experienced it:
http://theglyptodon.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/shackletons-third-man/
From John Geiger's book The Third Man Factor:
"The Third Man Factor is a biography of an extraordinary idea: That people at the very edge of death, often adventurers or explorers, experience a sense of an incorporeal being beside them who encourages them to make one final effort to survive.
If only a handful of people had ever experienced the Third Man, it might be dismissed as an unusual delusion shared by a few overstressed minds. But the amazing thing is this: over the years, the experience has occurred again and again, to 9/11 survivors, mountaineers, divers, polar explorers, prisoners of war, solo sailors, aviators and astronauts. All have escaped traumatic events only to tell strikingly similar stories of having experienced the close presence of a helper or guardian.
The mysterious force has been explained as everything from hallucination to divine intervention. Recent neurological research suggests something else. In The Third Man Factor John Geiger combines history, scientific analysis and great adventure stories to explain this secret to survival, a Third Man who - in the words of legendary Italian climber Reinhold Messner - "leads you out of the impossible."
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 22, 2014 - 06:59pm PT
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Just watched this. I wasn't familiar with the original Shackleton story, and it is bind-bogglingly epic. What these guys did to reenact it is certainly a cool adventure, certainly an endeavor that few people would relish or attempt or stick with as long as they did, in the best style they were able to do. But it is hubris and self-aggrandizement for them to equate their efforts to what the folks went through 100 years ago.
You can see at various spots where they relied on modern technologies where they would have died if they had been in Shackleton's place, and they never acknowledged that clearly in the documentary. It was a golden opportunity to talk about how hard it was to do what they had to do, a vantage point from which they could more fully appreciate how truly badass the Shackleton expedition dudes were (both the rescue crew and the folks left behind waiting).
On the other hand- how contrived is it to push yourself as hard, to dig as deep for a media event / history lesson / self-promotion? When you truly know there is no backup and death is the alternative, I'm sure wells of strength appear more readily. But a modern-day recreation can't dig that deep because we know there is a way out, and that changes everything.
For a climbing analogy, it's the difference between lead climbing with SAR a few pitches below you vs. free-soloing.
All that said, I have heard of few modern recreational adventurers that did something so badass. In some of their situations, even though they had a support system in place, it wasn't enough to prevent death in case of screw-up.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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May 20, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
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Today is the centenary of the end of Shackleton's epic voyage in Endurance, first as she sailed to and was trapped with her crew in the ice of the Weddell Sea, then after she sank and the men (and dogs, and cat Mrs. Chippie - a male) continued to drift north with the ice, then the open boat voyage to Elephant Island. Followed by the voyage of James Caird to a landing at King Haakon Bay on South Georgia, and the first land crossing of that island by Shackleton, Crean and Worsley to the whaling station at Stromness.
(Endurance originally set out to make the first crossing of Antarctic, with help from a shore party based at the Ross Sea, which laid depots. As with all Shackleton's expeditions, it was somewhat "seat of the pants", being reasonably prepared, but relying more on strong leadership than planning.)
The six on James Caird were Sir Ernest Shackleton, Frank Worsley, Tom Crean, Harry McNish, John Vincent, and Timothy McCarthy. McNish in particular made a major contribution to the voyage. He was the somewhat irascible ship's carpenter, who refitted James Caird at Elephant Island so she would be as seaworthy as possible.
McNish, Vincent and McCarthy were soon rescued from King Haakon Bay by Norwegian whalers, but the remaining sixteen at Elephant Island weren't reached until August 1916, with help from the Chilean navy.
The Ross Sea party and its vessel had at least as great an epic, but did lay the needed (but never used) depots. Three of them died, and the survivors weren't relieved until early 1917.
The centenary was commemorated with a service at Westminster Abbey today.
The South Georgia Association has a good FaceBook page about all of this and more, and maybe a website too.
ps "Deja vu" (accent marks omitted).
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 20, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
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Huzzah! For Shackleton who lost none and left no man to die. A great expedition leader.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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May 20, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
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Thanks, Mighty Hiker, for noting this anniversary.
I have an interesting book, Of Whales and Men, about a 1950 factory whaling expedition to the Southern Ocean. One of the featured characters in this non-fiction account is Mansell, the gruff, grizzled veteran of many a whaling voyage. He was at the Stromness whaling station on South Georgia island on May 20, 1916. Here's his account:
I was in manager's office at Stromness that day. Everybody at Stromness knew Jack Shackleton well, and we very sorry he is lost in ice with all hands. But we not know three terrible-looking bearded men who walk into the office off the mountainside that morning. Manager say "Who the hell are you?" and terrible bearded man in the center of the three say very quietly "My name is Shackleton." Me - I turn away and weep. I think manager weep, too.
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cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
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May 21, 2016 - 10:45am PT
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No comparison to the original feat. These recreations always seem a little lame to me. People know where there are, where they are going,will be tracking them, the clothing is much better as mentioned. Will they have a support boat following them? A camera crew to take them to the medic if they get an owwie?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2018 - 07:51am PT
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^^^^^ Not sure that Sir Ernest didn’t just roll over in his grave. (re: the car)
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jan 27, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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I hear ya, Tami. When virtually EVERYTHING has been done, the "adventurers" keep finding new ways to try and stand out. It starts to seem like silly grasping after a while. And, of course, the grasping sometimes has very serious consequences--see Brett Quinn's travails. Still, the urge to strive and challenge ourselves will never go away, and Antarctica is a freakin' huge, desolate place--and brutally difficult to travel in. I don't expect it to ever get overrun. For some great reading check out (linked to free ebook): The Worst Journey in the World. Damn!
BAd
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 27, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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Still, the urge to strive and challenge ourselves will never go away,
Maybe those adventurers could challenge themselves to get a job? That’s a pretty worthy goal for most people on this planet.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Jan 27, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
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An excellent book about the Scott Expedition is 'The Worst Journey in the World' by Apsley Cherry-Garrard, one of the members. Incredible read. Crean from the Shackleton epic was on the Scott Expedition. Talk about asking for punishment!
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 27, 2018 - 09:08pm PT
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Do they plan to eat the same sort of food?
Also, Shakleton and the other two were caught too high up near the end of the day, and he said the only way they would survive and make it to Stromness Bay, would be to slide down the side of a mountain into the unknown, not knowing if the slide was survivable or not. There is this amazing scene where Worsley and Crean express total disbelief, like, "are you crazy?" Shakleton kept retorting, "can we stay where we are without freezing to death?" Finally they did it and survived the long downhill run unscathed.
Is this expedition going to do that? I doubt it, still it is a cool thing.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 27, 2018 - 10:12pm PT
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What this "expedition" will do is to put the original epic in perspective.
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 29, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
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For an equally gripping tale of Anarctic survival try "Mawson's Will" by Lennard Bickel. Unfortunately Mawson was the only survivor of their four-man inland exploration party. A true epic...
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Dave Davis
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 30, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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Yeah it's probably been around 40 years ago or so that I read it as well. I remember talking about the souls of his feet literally peeling away and how, of course, at the time no one knew that eating the liver of their dogs caused an overdose of vitamin A which, apparently can be quite deadly. Mawson was one tough hombre.
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BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
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Jan 30, 2018 - 03:56pm PT
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An interesting takeaway from Mawson's Will is how to properly distribute your loads between the sledges. They had all the food on one sledge which turned out to be a bad idea. You could probably say the same for other critical survival gear.
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