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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 17, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
so after all the wooing by the USA to Algeria,, they REFUSED USA offers to help with the hostage crisis and thus the death counts are a guess-- 30 to 40 hostages killed? Who knows. Did the Algerian "special forces" fly helos and wipe most of those out? Who knows.. Some "super power we are huh-- get the boot from ALGERIA..Supposedly some escaped as well but that also isnt being confirmed.

So once again American hostages abroad, that we didnt do squat about and let some ALGERIAN special forces handle it.. Too bad for those hostages.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Ron....get real, there is nothing we (or the tea party president you would like) could do. Last I heard Algeria was a sovereign country. We can't just, on short notice without diplomatic negotiations, send in the troops.
I know a privately funded quick response team led by Rush Limbaugh would be the ticket!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Oh i know JD,, yet the Algerian govt TURNED the USA down when asking to help them.. Now if we WERE the "world police" ,,,they should have accepted that offer no? Just bringing that point to light, that when you hear the term "world police" and believe that,, you may have to buy some beachfront in Kansas too..


Ive been TOTALLY against the whole "world police" crap from the very start.
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coño
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
christ all-frikkin-mighty you're an idiot.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
Phuq Q...
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
israeli special forces would not ask for permission first, i imagine
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
You are both so friggin' and relentlessly clueless as to be without hope.

HEY - when W and the neocons completely screwed the pooch with their Mideast-destablizing domino strategy, then what's going on in Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Mali, Syria, Lebannon, and Bahrain - like just this sort of sh#t - is a direct and unavoidable consequence of those mindlessly ludicrous decisions and actions.

And guess what? In the process we so screwed our international standing, political currency, military readiness and reach that we basically look like complete over-reaching morons and simpletons to the Chinese. We now don't have the military option to just go barging around willy-nilly - and even if we did you clowns would be bitching about that.

Jeebus H. Christ - stunning cluelessness.

P.S. You drill for oil and gas in conflict zones at your own risk, it's Algeria - not Arkansas.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
Looks like the "Arab Spring" is turning into a nuclear winter.

Don't forget Nigeria either. And Mali. And Tunisia. And Somalia/Kenya.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
All courtesy, not Obama, but W and neocon cluelessness - funny how the 'bloom of democracy' didn't turn out to be of the suburban, middle-age, corporate, white guy kind. What a complete f*#king surprise!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
All courtesy, not Obama, but W and neocon cluelessness - funny how the 'bloom of democracy' didn't turn out to be of the suburban, middle-age, corporate, white guy kind. What a complete f*#king surprise!


Don't even go there, bro. Obama had no hand in the Arab Spring? Mubarak? Libya gun-running to Syria? Benghazi? And the resulting collapse of North Africa?

Yeah, right....Bush's fault.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
Man you are dumb Ron

Sure would not pass or get on any teams: clueless plus would not even how to figure out in helping kids cross the street.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
according to some here im sure slavery and the civil war was also Bushs fault..


hey lost GFYS...You only ever chime in to hurl an insult.Fairly weak link at best..
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
Nobody's fault....the tide of history. People, regardless their religion or culture, can only take so much oppression at the hands of despots.
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
F*#k them who cares.

Let the French deal with it. They will surrender in about an hour and those stupid enough to go to work in places like that know that there is always a chance your a hostage so f*#k them too!

I sick of the USA trying to help every sh#t pile in the world. You know why there is no more more world rally race from paris to dakar?

because for years these f*#king loons have been attacking the race and the racers threatening to kill them and setting up traps and mines to kill the racers.

News alert F*#k you algeria and all the sh#t piles around and near you..

toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
-


why is obama still illegally killing innocent Pakistanis with drone strikes?


some of you need to get your nose out of Obama's anal region...obama's hands are quite dirty



.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Nobody's fault....the tide of history. People, regardless their religion or culture, can only take so much oppression at the hands of despots.

Jim, I'm generally all in favor of helping people being repressed by totalitarian gov'ts. Really.

The problem with Obama's Arab Spring solution is that they didn't factor in the elements that would fill the power vacuum. They just thought everybody loved freedom. But the militias took over in the void of strong-handed guys like Mubarak and Ghaddafi.

Bush made the same mistake in Iraq. The Iraqis were supposed to welcome freedom. Instead, Al Qaeda Iraq took to the streets to create chaos.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
How come they got a king in Morocco and they're happy?
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
Yeah like Bush thought it would be a good idea to have the Palestinians vote in a democratic way and look what happened. We got a terrorist group running the country now.

this country is so f*#ked up. We take kids from parents who spank their kids for being sh#t heads them and we let crack heads have 9 kids while we send them checks to have more kids.
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
Do any of you f*#king einsteins know at all know why the EPA was in fact created?


























To create energy independence retards and now they do what????? How much funding do they get??? Billions of dollars spent on a bunch of retards who couldnt find oil if it was gushing out of their asses.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Do any of you f*#king einsteins know at all know why the EPA was in fact created?

Uh, the guvmint needed to hire a bunch of bureaucrats as an excuse to print
a bunch of money?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Actually because a river in Ohio caught on fire and someone thought that maybe, just maybe, we can not pump a gazillion tons of toxins into the environment without consequence.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Thanks' Ron.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
This never would have happened if a white Texan had been in the WH.
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
River fire????? the Ohio river was not the incentive for the EPA nice try Einstein.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
BLAHRING, did you just get out of rehab?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
The problem with Obama's Arab Spring solution...

Hey, clueless, nothing whatsoever about the Arab spring is of Obama's doing - zip, nada, nothing. Arab Spring was initiated on the ground by the citizens of those countries in response to long-simmering issues and all brought to the fore by W and the neocon's decision to invade Afghanistan and Iraq as 'dominos' for a 'wave of democracy'. The US, EU, Russia, Iran, and China have been along for the ride from the beginning in Tunisia and scrambling to remain relevant in and to the course of events. No one is managing or directing the Arab Spring or it's outfall because no one can. Mubarak, Benghazi, and Syria are all collateral outcomes everyone knew and predicted would be the result of destablizing the Mideast with two unnecessary preemptive wars which have benefited China and Iran way, way more than us.

Don't like those results? Too f*#king bad, you voted for the clowns who did the trundling that got all these balls rolling.
WTF

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Blues at gun camp everyone knows he is training to be a top notch security guard, and he finished rehab weeks ago.

Love ya Blue keep it real man.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
Blue, coming soon to a school near you?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
So Clueless

Tell me all hostages taking is the same; think you see too many TV series.

Are they blindfolded? Or hooded?

Are they all together or split up?

All in one bus?

Will they be driven to a building?

Time is running down think faster need to do something before more are captured and found.

Wait! one escape how do you get him and not fire on another by a truck or chopper. Who is the one that is escaping the hostage or the kidnapper?

How about some of the kidnappers putting hoods to look like a hostage to get out.

Ask what their demands are?

Would you talk to and make terms with the hostages?

Time hurry need to do something quick.

Would you let them or give in their demands while they take more.

Strikes first ask questions later or ask questions first and then strike.

Bring in ambulances to find out that the third and fourth one that were brought in has bombs in them creating more damage killing more targets as well as the facility.

Come on give some intelligent clues what you would do.
manzanita man

Social climber
somerset, ca.
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
This never would have happened if a white Texan had been in the WH.

thats right, ROSS PEROT. read "ON WINGS OF EAGLES" by ken follet.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
-


listen, all you clueless clowns!!!!



here's the Senate roll call for the Unilateral Invasion of Iraq!


Biden, Kerry, Feinstein, Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid ......all voted YES



warmongers? or victims of master hypnotist, George W Bush?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm



-
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
That vote outcome was the equally predictable result of a campaign of manufactured intelligence, treasonous lies, and incessant drumbeating for war setting a political tide and stage where to vote any other way was largely suicidal. Colin Powell's bravura performance in congress and the UN mouthing those lies sealed the political deal.

It was Cheney, Rove, and Rumsfeld's finest hour and all three would be in prison for treason if Obama and the democrats had a spine
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
Oh, and the Algerians have been dealing with these guys since the beginning of their absolutely vicious civil war in '91 with 50-150k dead (depending on who you believe).

Seven or seventy American oil/gas workers who understood the risks? In the context of a hardened and weary Algerian military response? Insignificant is what they were in terms of sending an uncompromising message to the rebels. And maybe you should toughen the f*#k up a bit given the policies you support have led to this with lots more on the horizon.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
this country is so f*#ked up. We take kids from parents who spank their kids for being sh#t heads them and we let crack heads have 9 kids while we send them checks to have more kids.



Yep. Umurica'!


They're Islamic radical Jihadists. Those American's are toast.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
WTF: Do any of you f*#king einsteins know at all know why the EPA was in fact created?

Regarding the birth of the EPA - from the horses mouth:

Richard Nixon in his message to Congress explaining his reasons for proposing Reorganization Plan No. 3 (the creation of the EPA):

[the national government was] not structured to make a coordinated attack on the pollutants which debase the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the land that grows our food.

...pulling together into one agency a variety of research, monitoring, standard-setting and enforcement activities now scattered through several departments and agencies.


Here's the executive order reorganizing government to create the EPA and NOAA

Here's the executive order establishing the EPA

How the f*#k did you decide the EPA had anything whatsoever to do with oil or energy independence? Dude - man - that's why we didn't call it the "Energy Department".
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Algeria is a sovereign country.

The hostages are greedy bastards who are idiots for going to Algeria in the first place.

The USA has no responsility - NONE - to rescue idiots who go to dangerous places.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Hey, clueless, nothing whatsoever about the Arab spring is of Obama's doing - zip, nada, nothing. Arab Spring was initiated on the ground by the citizens of those countries in response to long-simmering issues and all brought to the fore by W and the neocon's decision to invade Afghanistan and Iraq as 'dominos' for a 'wave of democracy'. The US, EU, Russia, Iran, and China have been along for the ride from the beginning in Tunisia and scrambling to remain relevant in and to the course of events. No one is managing or directing the Arab Spring or it's outfall because no one can. Mubarak, Benghazi, and Syria are all collateral outcomes everyone knew and predicted would be the result of destablizing the Mideast with two unnecessary preemptive wars which have benefited China and Iran way, way more than us.

Don't like those results? Too f*#king bad, you voted for the clowns who did the trundling that got all these balls rolling.


So the Arab Spring was all BUsh, huh, you're sticking to that??

Wow!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
USA likes to make sure that their citizens are taken care of... in the eyes of the media at least. So you can't be ashamed you live in a country that would put forth some effort to help you.


Also, the Americans went to a bad part of the world. They should have had the proper securities.


Not everyone is a greedy tw*t f*ck Sierra Rat. Just because they're in the oil business, doesn't mean they're making tons of bank.


Sorry people have, make, and spend more money than you can fathom.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
^^^^^
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
Blue: So the Arab Spring was all BUsh, huh, you're sticking to that??

Are you kidding? The Arab Spring was precipitated by events running back to Roman times and more recently the Colonial Era and the follow-on foreign policies and despots of the Cold War period. But what got this round of the sh#t twister going was the US starting two unnecessary preemptive wars in the Mideast which was the neocons attempt to end run and avoid actually solving the underlying Israeli/Palestinian problem.

Yep, tip just the right domino and the Mideast will break out in a stunning wave of [good ole' boy, do just what we want] democracy. You are all for democracy, right? Well, the Arab Spring IS that neocon 'democracy' at work. Don't like it much? Cry me a f*#king river and thank Bush and the neocunts for how it turned out today.

Or are you one of those people who think events spin up out of thin air with no history or traceable causal trails? Well, I do suppose that would be helpful to living in a fantasy world where you just make sh#t up, but check it out: that's not how it works out here in the real world.

To quote the neocons directly from their website: 'Project for a New American Century' (and, hey, how's that century going for ya? Ubetcha!)

Neocons:

The successful disarming, rebuilding, and democratic reform of Iraq can contribute decisively to the democratization of the wider Middle East. This is an objective of overriding strategic importance to the United States, as it is to the rest of the international community - and its achievement will require an investment and commitment commensurate with that. We offer our full support to the President and Congress to accomplish these vitally important goals.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
healyje is right on

again
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
healyje is right on

again

True, but will that help educate Bluering and Ron?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Sounds like some people failed Algeria in high school. Their logic doesn't add up.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
No opinions by any poster on ST will ever be changed by ANY argument or statement of facts no matter how reasonable. The opinions of the posters here are as ossified as the poster himself.
Pontificate, elucidate, educate......make yourself feel good because that is about all that you can expect.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
Are you kidding? The Arab Spring was precipitated by events running back to Roman times and more recently the Colonial Era and the follow-on foreign policies and despots of the Cold War period.

I knew you were gonna go there. How is that "Bush's fault"?

Everything "wrong" with Africa is attributable to the colonial whitey, right? Explain the classic examples of Rhodesia, and Mali. Both were net food exporters under 'black' rule that had farms run by descendant colonial whites. That all changes when blacks stole the land from white farmers, and now they are essentially starving.

My point? The colonialists did a lot of good that never gets mentioned. They fed the continent!

But let's perpetuate the lie of subversion and slavery ( that was started by the Islamists!)

You can try to twist history, but Africa has always battled for liberty. The Commies (Russia/China) have tried, the Islamists do as well, and then comes the Western doctrine. Which should prevail for sustainable justice and prosperity?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
Algeria thumbed thier collective noses at not only Billary who has been over there attempting to woo them, but our "world police" claim as well.. Just some more awesome foreign dealings by the gubbmint. Does anyone ELSE but Blue and i think that whole series of visits was one giant ass waste of time and tax dollars??
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
healyje is right on

again

You people are so wrong and are being duped!

The ME is different from North Africa. Do you understand that? There is a different geo-political dogma going on between the 2. Understand? Follow?

Iraq and afghanistan are somewhat a different conflict. In fact, they aren't our conflicts, they should be Europe's, it's their oil in N. Africa.

Follow?

Why is the US, under Obama, undermining stable regimes in Africa? They were fine 4 years ago. Human rights? Is that it? How are they now?

To say this is Bush's fault is ridiculous. It'd be like blaming Jimmy Carter for all this. Wanna go there? Healy?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Here it is in a nutshell:

George Bush (aka the neocons) at West Point on June 1, 2002:

When it comes to the common rights and needs of men and women, there is no clash of civilizations. The requirements of freedom apply fully to Africa and Latin America and the entire Islamic world. The peoples of the Islamic nations want and deserve the same freedoms and opportunities as people in every nation. And their governments should listen to their hopes.

...

U.S. policy will be more actively engaged in supporting democratic trends in the Muslim world than ever before. This is the clear message of the President's National Security Strategy.

We will do this in full knowledge of the fact that democracies are imperfect. They are complicated. Indeed, leaders in some Muslim states contrast democratic systems to their own, more orderly systems, and point with satisfaction to the seeming stability that they provide. Yet stability based on authority alone is illusory and ultimately impossible to sustain…. Rigid authoritarian systems cannot withstand the shocks of social, political or economic change, particularly of the kind or at the pace that characterizes the modern world….

There will be those who argue that democratization is impossible in the Muslim world since it has little history or tradition of democracy. This too I reject; after all, until recently, only a few parts of the world had any experience with democracy. This argument reflects what President Bush refers to as the "soft bigotry of low expectations…".
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
when guys use terms like "neocunts" why even bother Blue..They are so far whacko left that they are totally useless..Its a load and clear trait as a matter of fact,, the lack of ability to post without their hatred poking through..


and THAT is the first and last time youll see ME type that word. Get some class..
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
The leading neocons were and are treasonous felons almost to a man and responsible for two unnecessary preemptive wars which have seriously degraded America's economic, moral, political, and military standing in the world. So yeah, neocunts.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Bluering is the funniest person on this board, he is great, nothing I love better than drinking a beer and reading his well though out rants. Nothing like listen to a mind that has years of drug and alcohol abuse. I still do not believe he is a real person he is a troll doing this shiiit for kicks. He is like an angry child of parents that drive a big pickup with big tires. You go girl!!!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
your precious messiah has budgeted for an attack on Iran... Defense bill 2013.. Wanna bet he does it just like bush?


and who was it that said ,, " i wont send american boys thousands of miles from home to do what the South Vietnamese boys should be doing fer themselves"... Bush?? nooooowww,,,Regan! Naaaaaaaa Oh thats right LBJ...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
We are not starting a war with Iraq - we don't have human, material, or logistical resources to fight any such war. Ask any general or admiral. What he has budgeted for is stepping up our Naval rotations in the region and reserve funds in the event the Israelis go off the reservation.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
ohw i didnt know you were in touch with the generals and admirals.. Have your people contact their people and do sum lunch...

but we are talking about IRAN not IRAQ.. And the budgeting includes the wording "attack on Iran"-- perhaps they just mean they will say bad things about them,, i dunno...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
Ron...I'll bet you a stuffed beaver...RJ
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
just recently as a matter of fact RJ.. A big PHAT ol beaver with some impressive nipples too! And of course those charming HUGE BUCK TOOFS!
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
The ME is different from North Africa. Do you understand that? There is a different geo-political dogma going on between the 2. Understand? Follow?

bluering is wrong

again

I have vacationed in North Africa and the Middle East numerous times (Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Somalia, Kenya, Pakistan, Palestine, Jordan, Oman).

Most recently, I spent a few weeks vacationing in the Middle East this past March. (See my trip report on climbing in the Wadi Rum.) Actually I went there for an international caving symposium, and did some climbing on the side.

How many times have you been to North Africa and the Middle East, oh ye experts in North Africa and the Middle East?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Ron: And the budgeting includes the wording "attack on Iran"

Well, here's the actual text of the NDAA 2013

and here is the actual text of H.R. 431, the final defense budget bill.

I defy you to find the wording "attack on Iran" in either bill - please get back to us with a pointer to any such reference in either bill.

How is it you guys can just keep making this sh#t up?


Edit: Hint - what you're referring to is this GOP-inserted language:

(b) DECLARATION OF POLICY.—It shall be the policy of the United States to take all necessary measures, including military action if required, to prevent Iran from threatening the United States, its allies, or Iran’s neighbors with a nuclear weapon.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
How many times have you been to North Africa and the Middle East, oh ye experts in North Africa and the Middle East?

We've been down this path before with Bluering. He's an expert on everything. True, he hasn't really been anywhere, and hasn't really got anything on which to base his expertise, but he knows everything.

This is unlike many of us, who try to chime in only when we actually know something about the subject under discussion.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
I've never been to Tunisia but I saw Star Wars many times.




I can't believe this thread has made it this far.
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coño
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
30 hostages dead. I hope Algeria sends them to Ron for mounting.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
30 hostages dead. I hope Algeria sends them to Ron for mounting.


Would it be in poor taste to say.....

NOW THAT'S FUNNY!

If you ever get the chance... The Bardo National Museum in Tunis has the world's largest collection of Roman mosaics in the world, and it's close to Hannibal's Carthage.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 12:44am PT
ill tan em all up, mount em, and do my next world show piece with them..
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Jan 18, 2013 - 12:51am PT
Ghost, everybody gets it but him, why bother...
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 18, 2013 - 01:52am PT
This outta fire some people up....

Credit: Sierra Ledge Rat

I wish I had a sign that said,
"Sorry, World, not everyone in America has their head up their ass."
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 18, 2013 - 01:53am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#284850
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 02:24am PT
Face it,, our "ME" dealings have been an absolute waste of lives and tax dollars since I can remember. I remember us funding osama buttwad to fight off the russians- and the shyt has been working the very same since then,, each and every time. Egypt is a gawd awfull mess now thanks to the powers the US gubbmint helped put into place, that obviously,, NONE of the people there wanted. WHA? YUP.... that is the short of it. Libya is another den of snakes, two headed at that. There was indeed parts of the libyan police force photographing the compound where Stevens was killed the same day - early in the am. The muslim brotherhood, where EVER they get into power of any type, exploit those to further thier radical islamic ways. These are THE VERY FUGGING same as al-kay-duh.. NO difference. Al -kay-duh now claims the Algerian fiasco as well so its working great there too. We ran guns into both Libya and Syria PUTTING US square in the middle of MORE DEBACLE... Afghanistan still has PLENTY of al-kay-duhs, and some are training right here in the good ol usa to go over there and blow up troops,, or blow up a mall here. Maybe a helicopter attack.

We now utilize spy and attack drones to thwart our enemy, while flying over countless neighborhoods of innocent people scaring them silly on a daily basis and some how think they will think better of us for that. News flash,, they dont.

Sooo, how many billions, or probably trillion have we dumped in that shythole and how many good lives had been donated to do ,, in the end,, not a damm thing?



Been watchin this crapola since Nam, and i lost a few friends and relatives in that one.. Screw that world police junk.. Hitler wanted to be the very same damm thing didnt he... Not another dime to the ME until every tax payer here gets a 300,000.00 rebate minimum...That would be my campaign slogan...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 18, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Hitler wanted to be the very same damm thing didnt he...


Wow, that's off base.

Withdrawing from the world won't work man, may as well just get your head around that. Sure, you can dream about it, but writing to your congressman isn't going to make it happen.

You can either try and influence the way your country behaves around the world, or be permanently angry. Take your pick.
QITNL

climber
Jan 18, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Hey Ron, I dunno, I'm looking at the wall and I don't think any of that is gonna stick. Make a new batch. A little more thick.

American-born al-Qaeda spokesman Adam Yahiye Gadahn shares some love with the NRA:



"America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

Kinda scary.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 18, 2013 - 02:59am PT
You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

Well, bad moustache boy would be wrong on at least one little point there.
Can anybody guess what it is?

Phuk that little attention whore.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 03:06am PT
" Survival: "Wow, that's off base."


As Egypt that..


Cna YOU give me ONE good reason an American President should be "working" with this loose nut ball organization called the mooslim brotherhood? A RADICAL muslim organization that includes,, al-kay-duh types?

Hello,,, is anybody OUT THERE! (to borrow a Floyd phrase)
QITNL

climber
Jan 18, 2013 - 03:07am PT
Most folks don't have a local convention center?

But you're right - and that beard looks like a glue on. Definitely a girl.

-

ONE good reason: Israel
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 18, 2013 - 04:44am PT
Cna YOU give me ONE good reason an American President should be "working" with this loose nut ball organization called the mooslim brotherhood? A RADICAL muslim organization that includes,, al-kay-duh types?

Reason #1: Because their leader is now the democratically-elected President of the 15th most populous nation in the world.

Remember what W said, "We will do this in full knowledge of the fact that democracies are imperfect."

Gotta love that sh#t and hold your nose sometimes when ideology meets the road. So Ron, yes or no, are you for democracy or not? It's one of those 'freedom of man', 'constitution', and second amendment thingies you like to rave on about, you know - principles - where you're either for'em or agin'em.
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jan 18, 2013 - 05:57am PT
healyje, I've stayed out of these threads, but it's refreshing to read your commentary. Thanks for putting that up.


Now if we could only get you into that Secretary of State job and roll back some of this whimsical f*#kery going on...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 18, 2013 - 06:21am PT
Stitch, thanks. I mainly just try to stick with facts and follow wherever they lead both backwards and forward. Don't want the SecState job - it helps to be smarter, better looking, wealthier, and have more social skills than I have to get by in that arena. That, or be bulldog tenacious or maybe all of the above. Not my deal for sure but, fortunately or unfortunately, have been around enough executive-level politics to know that.
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jan 18, 2013 - 06:51am PT
You don't want the job, which is exactly why you need to take the job. Capice? Now go buy yourself another suit. We have some people to see.

In any case, I especially like your take on recent history of conflict in the region. So many details get lost in the mix.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:47am PT
Face it,, our "ME" dealings have been an absolute waste of lives and tax dollars since I can remember.

Ron is correct, our dealings with the ME have been a collosal waste of time, money and resources.

Primarily because our dealings with the ME have been with the worst intentions, with the worst judgement and for the wrong reasons.

If you beat the junkyard dog on a daily basis, is it really a surprise that you get bit when the dog gets off his chain?

And a typical ignorant American response would be to blame the dog.

American has allowed its private companies to rape and pillage countries around the world, all in the name of capaitalism. And then we wonder why people around the world hate us? It is colonialism at its worst. America needs to start treating other countries with dignity.

Instead, America has pursued policies that continue to anatagonize, and these policies have been a collosal waste of time and money, as Ron insightfully points out.

All of my non-American friends have all been extremely hopeful that Obama would finally change antagonistic American policies, and would help change America's image as the neighborhood bully.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:59am PT
The facts aren't all in but hey that never stopped any of us, amirite?

Once you conclude the situation isn't gonna get any better and can only get worse, it would seem the Algerians made the right move in moving immediately. The facility appears not to have been blown up yet.

The French do have a sophisticated counter-terrorism unit that would've presumably been involved.

Had they waited, the terrorists would've been busy turning the complex into a massive fireball that would've consumed every living thing. Moving in right away, prevented the agonizing usual scenario of a hostage being executed hourly, a blast of near nuclear proportions etc.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 18, 2013 - 09:32am PT
I would say western governments and our press wanted to believe this was a 'rescue' operation, but the reason the Algerian military moved while those discussions were taking place is they never had the slightest intention of mounting a rescue operation. That's just not how the Algerian conflict has rolled for the past 22 years, but rather brutally prosecuted by both sides, rebel and government alike.

So, in a situation like this, the Algerian military obviously couldn't give a rat's ass about foreign oil and gas workers who knew the risks going in. No, they went in guns hot with every intention of taking the rebels out and the welfare of the western hostages was clearly inconsequential to that end. And I'm guessing they wanted to get the job done before the whole affair became hopelessly embroiled in a clusterf*#k of western 'diplomacy' and they lost local control of the situation. Also, that preemption was undoubtedly driven by a desire to deny any possibility of an international stage to the rebel group led by Mokhtar Belmokhtar, who earned his jihadi stripes in post-Soviet Afghanistan and has been a pain in the ass in both Algeria and neighboring Mali.

I personally think western governments and societies need to toughen up a bit and understand it's a rough outside the industrialized nations and that the cost of doing business in conflict zones can be harsh at times. You can sure bet your ass the outcome would have been the same or worse if these had been Chinese hostages held by an Islamist group in western China and 'freed' by the Chinese military who probably would have clusterbombed the facility.

In the end it's the same deal as ever - what are the true costs of Mideast oil and gas production to western societies?
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coño
Jan 18, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Face it,, our "ME" dealings have been an absolute waste of lives and tax dollars since I can remember.

Cheap oil that gets your useless ass to go and fall off rocks in the forest IS a waste of life and tax dollars!

If jerk-offs like you weren't busy defeating energy conservation and alternative energy plans, Al Qaeda would just be the loony conservative wing of the Man-Boy Love Association.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 18, 2013 - 10:14am PT
There was the hospital in Thailand, the Japanese Embassy in Peru. Some of the hostage takers (and their entourage - some guys dragged family members) were unarmed and executed at the scene by the "rescuers".

Not sure whether the Mumbai biz is working out for India. Captured him, tried him, now they'll hang him. Prolly shudda shot him with the rest of them. Though I guess they wanted to see what info they could extract.

The more I think about where the Algerian situation was headed, the more I like the way they moved on it immediately.

Though I think the points upthread are correct. For the Algerians, this was simply a bump in the road on their way toward avoiding their own "Arab Spring".
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 10:55am PT
H,, as for your question,, of course im for democracy in my country, but i WONT make that call for others nor do i want that forced on them. Weve seen clearly what the attempts at such a system bring to those that have no clue.

and elconooo,, since i buy my gas from Maverick stations,, i buy nothing but good ol Arkansas gasoline.. So GFYS.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 10:57am PT
this was simply a bump in the road on their way toward avoiding their own "Arab Spring".

They had their "Arab Spring" 45 years ago. They were the originals.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 18, 2013 - 11:08am PT
They had their "Arab Spring" 45 years ago. They were the originals.

Beat me to it Reilly. But most people in North America probably don't have any idea about what went on back then.

I'm not sure that comparisons to the recent Arab Spring are valid though.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 18, 2013 - 11:27am PT
ha I did see that.

But that was over throwing Colonialsim. This is more like haves vs have nots. Though I'm far from an expert. I did see this though.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
update: Americans and Brits still being held captive after the cluster f*#k of air attacks killing more hostages than bad guys...
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coño
Jan 18, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
i buy my gas from Maverick stations,, i buy nothing but good ol Arkansas gasoline

They bring it to you in 5 gallon spackle buckets, you dumb fuk?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
more dribble from the ass that is elconocrap.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 18, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Ron some reading

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai



One Problem this translation was written in 2009. Do you think they may have changed some tactics.

They have already in the last month figured out not to us US or NATO ammo
accidently/purposely left behind in buildings and the casual box left next to a tree. Some are hot rounds to jam their weapons for good and the ones with salt blends blow up in their face taking an eye out.

you can hit the picture and it will zoom in a little better if not I will enlarge a tad.




Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
fairly small,, dont have my reading specs close. Perhaps just a further point explanation? I do agree al-kay-duh is always changing like chameleons...
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 18, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
^^^^^^^^


re the above photo


why do terrorists always train on those monkey bar things?



-
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
they saw it in Full Metal Jacket.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 18, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
In the end it's the same deal as ever - what are the true costs of Mideast oil and gas production to western societies?


B-I-N-G-O

What are the true costs of dependence on fossil fuels, regardless of the source?

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
How many times have you been to North Africa and the Middle East, oh ye experts in North Africa and the Middle East?
We've been down this path before with Bluering. He's an expert on everything. True, he hasn't really been anywhere, and hasn't really got anything on which to base his expertise, but he knows everything.

This is unlike many of us, who try to chime in only when we actually know something about the subject under discussion.


In that region alone I've been to Egypt, Israel, and Turkey. And I've been to others. Even lived in some.

Asshats!

EDIT:
Beat me to it Reilly. But most people in North America probably don't have any idea about what went on back then.

I'm not sure that comparisons to the recent Arab Spring are valid though.

Now you are just coming of as arrogant and condescending. And regarding that 'Arab Spring' back then, how is Rhodesia doing now (Zimbabwe)? After they stole all the land from descendants of colonial farmers?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Who stole it on their arrival, or did you just miss the European Colonial Era entirely? You reap what you sow...
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:44pm PT


Credit: lostinshanghai

There is no point.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Who stole it on their arrival, or did you just miss the European Colonial Era entirely? You reap what you sow...


I understand that, that it was colonized, or "occupied", but the fact remains that under the farming skills of colonialists and their descendants, Zimbabwe was a net exporter of food in the region. Now? They're in bad shape. And yeah, blame Mugabe.

After the colonialists left and handed control back to the Rhodesians, they were happy to let the "white" farmers stay and produce.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Until we take them at their word, you're right, there is no point.

EDIT: Algeria in particular, has a recent history of dealing with Islamists;
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/18/the_eradicateurs_algeria_terrorists_hostages?page=0,0

Notably, from the link;
Algeria's experience with Islamist insurgency during the 1990s defines its response to events today. During that conflict, a debate emerged within the Algerian government about how to deal with the violent Islamists. One side favored a negotiated solution. The other, known as the eradicateurs, said killing the Islamists was the only approach. The eradicateurs won -- and they still remain in the drivers seat in today's Algeria.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
At last something I can agree with!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
At last something I can agree with!

It's their way, but it is effective. Got an American killed though, God bless his soul, but it's unclear how he went down.

Algeria appears to be very Honey-Badger on Islamists and bad boyz!

Algeria/Tunisia seem pretty okay. The poison leaked south from Libya.
Sagebrusher

Sport climber
Iowa
Jan 19, 2013 - 03:06am PT
Algeria On Topic...

The next bouldering capital of the world?

http://maps.google.com/?ll=23.521575,6.82251&spn=0.021721,0.027595&t=h&z=15

or maybe the next canyoneering destination, or whatever these formations are...

http://maps.google.com/?ll=24.882758,9.310677&spn=0.010745,0.013797&t=h&z=16

The southern Algeria desert makes the Mojave seem like a rainforest!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 19, 2013 - 10:53am PT
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ALGERIA_KIDNAPPING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-19-09-51-18

All dead
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 19, 2013 - 10:57am PT
Too bad... there's a lot of cool stuff in North Africa (and elsewhere) that's totally off limits now because of W and the neocons.

Sierra Ledge Rat in a wrecked WWII Crusader tank on the El Alamein bat...
Sierra Ledge Rat in a wrecked WWII Crusader tank on the El Alamein battlefield on the Egypt/Libya border
Credit: Sierra Ledge Rat

Allied War Cemetary, El Alamein
Epitath reads: "To the World a Soldier, To Us All the World"
"To the world a soldier, to us all the world." Allied War Cemetery, El...
"To the world a soldier, to us all the world." Allied War Cemetery, El Alamein, Egypt
Credit: Sierra Ledge Rat
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 19, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
A sad, but predictable ending.

And it was pretty much a 95% suicide mission from the outset given it's flat, inescapable terrain in every direction around the gas plant. Belmokhtar's team had a plausible, but very small window for a smash and grab - like an hour max - and then bugging out for the nearest Libyan border town for safe haven which is Gadamis, two to three hours to the north. Just trying to dash due east twenty miles to the nearest stretch of Libyan border wouldn't have done it as it's just desert and the Algerian military would have pursued them regardless as there's no Libyan presence in that area.

I'm guessing Belmokhtar would liked to have had his team pull off getting out with the hostages, but that dude has been around the block enough to know how slim the odds were of that. I don't believe he really intended for anyone to come out of this alive other than as a long shot and neither did the Algerian military. Harsh, I know, but the two immediate adversaries in this incident clearly understood the deal from the beginning. It's only been western governments and press who harbored unrealistic expectations for the possibility of an outcome other than what has occurred.

The Algerians are a lot like the Syrians relative to their punitive prosecution of dissent and armed opposition. Never pretty and everyone involved is hardened with no illusions around the value of individual lives regardless of who they belong to.

North three hours to the only Libyan safe haven...
North three hours to the only Libyan safe haven...
Credit: healyje
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
I'm betting that a Delta team from Southern Europe could have tilted the odds much better. We probably should have learned from Benghazi that you have to pull the trigger quickly w/ sh#t goes south in these kinds of situations.

Of course, wed have to get clearance from the Algerians to do so. Maybe they would've let us if we promised not to leave any live militants?

North Africa is getting hot. God help the Frenchies, nice to see them show some sack in the fight against Islamists.

EDIT: Oh! Here is my interactive map too;

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=217892262123461097139.00047d7300789724c91fa&msa=0&ll=15.284185,20.917969&spn=81.864955,113.027344

Zoom in and click the bubbles.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
Chabane, who worked in food services, said he bolted out the window and was hiding when he heard the militants speaking among themselves with Libyan, Egyptian and Tunisian accents. At one point, he said, they caught a Briton.
"They threatened him until he called out in English to his friends, telling them, `Come out, come out. They're not going to kill you. They're looking for the Americans,"' Chabane said.
"A few minutes later, they blew him away."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01/19/clinton-calls-hostage-siege-act-terror-after-american-dies-in-algerian-raid/#ixzz2IRZoHebY



Interesting that a Brit thought they were specifically after Americans.. (more likey than not)..
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 19, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
I'm betting that a Delta team from Southern Europe could have tilted the odds much better. We probably should have learned from Benghazi that you have to pull the trigger quickly w/ sh#t goes south in these kinds of situations.

Highly unlikely it would have had any other outcome given the setting and the mindset of Belmokhtar's team. And Benghazi turned out the way it did precisely because we 'learned' from Mogadishu.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 19, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
I'm betting that a Delta team from Southern Europe could have tilted the odds much better.

Agree.

It could have tilted the odds that American soldiers would be killed, from zero to some number much greater than zero.

North Africa is getting hot.

That's funny.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
It could have tilted the odds that American soldiers would be killed, from zero to some number much greater than zero.

I don't like seeing soldiers injured any more than anyone, but the sole purpose of Delta is this kind of scenario. Hostage extraction is their game. We, as a nation, defend our citizens at the expense of brave men like our armed forces. This is what they do, and also why they deserve overwhelming praise.

The Israelis pulled off the Entebbe rescue from Idi Amin and similar islamists BITD. Of course the Israelis tend to be more 'resourceful' and less politically sensitive.

And Mogadishu? Give me a break! That was a failure from the top to not provide Spectre gunship air-support for the op, as was requested, yet denied. Too big of a footprint.

Credit: bluering
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
Heads up to all war-correspondents, look out!

Al Jiz reporter killed by sniper-fire (graphic);
http://patdollard.com/2013/01/watch-graphic-warning-sniper-kills-al-jazeera-reporter-in-syria/
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
I don't like seeing soldiers injured any more than anyone, but [...]


But you do like hearing tales of American badassery in the news, however only when you can watch it all safely from your living room.

Were you recently wondering why people label you "the quintessential non-patriot" ?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2045787&tn=241
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
But you do like hearing tales of American badassery in the news, however only when you can watch it all safely from your living room.

Yes, or course! And I commend then them constantly for their deeds here.

I'm not a patriot unless I'm a Delta member? Or an Air Force mechanic?
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
All you must do to be a true patriot is occasionally blow some sunshine up a camouflaged ass.


"Thank you for your service!"
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
All you gotta do to be a true patriot is occasionally blow some sunshine up a camouflaged ass.

Or maybe just love the country, her heroes, and her Constitution. That's how I roll...

You and Dingus can f*#k off together.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
We, as a nation, defend our citizens at the expense of brave men like our armed forces. This is what they do, and also why they deserve overwhelming praise.

[...]

You and Dingus can f*#k off together.

You have a funny way of expressing "overwhelming praise."

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
You have a funny way of expressing "overwhelming praise."

You have a usual trait of taking my words, trying to be really 'clever', and trying to condemn me or make me appear 'extremist'.

I'm used to you silly f*#kers. Keep trying though, this is a fun fun game.

The more I express patriotism and respect for the military units under fire in the field, the more asshats like you will condemn me for not being there.

That's fine. Keep it coming.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 19, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
must give thanks again to rong for proving once again how much of an idiot he is.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 19, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
must give thanks again to rong for proving once again how much of an idiot he is.


Explain where he's wrong. Or be the usual coward and say nothing whilst you slander people.

EDIT: I respect people who have the courage to defend their ideas, But Doug (Nature) is a coward. Not only is he a coward, but he continues to slander me. That's pretty f*#king weak!
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 19, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
The more I express patriotism and respect for the military units under fire in the field, the more asshats like you will condemn me for not being there.

None of our military units are under fire in Algeria.

But you want to change that.

Are you feeling a need to express some patriotism?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 20, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
None of our military units are under fire in Algeria.

But you want to change that.

Are you feeling a need to express some patriotism?


They're not in active combat roles, but they're there. All over Northern Africa in small planes. In the background.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 20, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
^^^ Dumbasshat
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Here Philo; http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-13/world/35462541_1_burkina-faso-air-bases-sahara

When I say something, I can almost always back it up. Know why? Because when I state something it has a basis in fact.

Read the link.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
^^^ Blueshit bull.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
They're not in active combat roles,

But you want to change that.

Are you feeling a need to express some patriotism?

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
But you want to change that.

Are you feeling a need to express some patriotism?

Nope. As I said at the outset of the 'Arab Spring', "It's not our war, we are over-stretched already".

Let the f*#king Euros deal with their own interests. We need to come home.

EDIT:
^^^ Blueshit bull.


What's the matter, can't handle the facts, Johnson? Fool....
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:49pm PT

When I say something, I can almost always back it up.

Have a link showing that Mexico is in South America?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 20, 2013 - 03:56pm PT

Have a link showing that Mexico is in South America?


Nope. But is is South of sovereign US territory.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 20, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Nope. As I said at the outset of the 'Arab Spring', "It's not our war, we are over-stretched already".

What on Earth could have ever put us in an "over-stretched" position?
Hmmm musta been Obummer.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 20, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Nope. As I said at the outset of the 'Arab Spring', "It's not our war, we are over-stretched already".

Let the f*#king Euros deal with their own interests. We need to come home.

I agree that we're overstretched.

However, there isn't a place in this world where we don't have our own national interests in mind.

If helping the French kick some jihadist ass in Mali is in our national interest, and the French are providing combat power and spending money, and we don't have to be quite as far out on the spear tip, you better believe it will happen.


Let the f*#king Euros deal with their own interests.

First of all Blue, you referred to them as f*#king Euros, which is no way to look at our allies around the world.
Secondly, your isolation attitude hasn't worked for 100 years, and it never will again.
Where would we be if the French hadn't helped us in our own revolution?

What about that man in the White House? Isn't that the real problem anyway?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 20, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Oh yeah Survival, what do you know?
Sure you were a real life soldier and all but that was so last century.
You aren't up on the latest intel like Rong & Blurring.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 20, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Make no mistake. Even though the Algerian gas is destined for the Euro market, it is our National Security issue. Euros will be on the spot market driving prices through the roof. Economic effects. Affecting our ability to pay for the military we need. Got that? Unless, we go back to horses.
Most of you guys are out west amirite? How many of you are comfortable with a buckboard or even on the back of a horse?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 20, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
I could be down with that. Used to be an endurance rider, I'm good with a horse.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 20, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
We're not hurting for natural gas. The Dept of Energy just needs to tap into
the SuperTopo Mega-field.
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