I Love America!

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donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Toting a combat rifle in combat to defend your country at the risk of your own life is patriotism. Toting one into a school room or movie theater is not.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
donini said:

Jingoism, flag waving and the attitude, "my country, right or wrong, my country," is not real patriotism- wanting to make your country better IS.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
"Tell me who's the real patriots
The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags
Or the people with the guts to work
For some real change?"
-the Dead Kennedy's,
- Stars and Stripes of Corruption
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

with all due respect to those who've served...bullsh#t.






edit: nice cast though....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
I used to listen to the radio
And I donít guess theyíre listeniní to me no more
They talk too much but thatís okay
I donít understand a single word they say
Piss and moan about the immigrants
But donít say nothiní about the president
A democracy donít work that way
I can say anything I wanna say

So f*#k the FCC
F*#k the FBI
F*#k the CIA
Liviní in the motherf*#kiní USA

People tell me that Iím paranoid
And I admit Iím gettiní pretty nervous, boy
It just gets tougher everyday
To sit around and watch it while it slips away
Been called a traitor and a patriot
Call me anything you want to but
Just donít forget your history
Dirty Lenny died so we could all be free
*Steve Earle


Questioning your country is more patriotic than blindly leaping off a cliff for it.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
I thought the true "patriots" in these enlightened times were the activists trying to keep us out of all those imperalist wars and wars for oil
Wrong...just ask dingus
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:42pm PT


This is the best time of the day the dawn The final cleansing breath unsullied yet By acrid fume or death's cacophony The rank refuse of unchained ambition
And pray, deny me not but know me now Your faithful retainer stands resolute To serve his liege Lord without recompense Perchance to fall and perish namelessly
No flag draped bier or muffled drum to set The cadence for a final dress parade But it was not always thus remember Once you worshipped me and named me a God In many tongues and made offering lest I exact too terrible a tribute
Take heed for I am weary, ancient And decrepit now and my time grows short There are no honorable frays to join Only mean death dealt out in dibs and dabs Or horror unleashed from across oceans
Assail me not with noble policy For I care not at all for platitude And surrender such tedious detail To greater minds than mine and nimbler tongues Singular in their purpose and resolve And presuming to speak for everyman (Oh)
Oh, for another time, a distant field And there a mortal warrior's lonely grave But duty charges me remain until The end the last battle of the last war
Until that tomorrow render unto me That which is mine my stipend well deserved The fairest flower of your progeny Your sons, your daughters your hopes and your dreams The cruel consequence of your conceit

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Yes, it is most valuable to question your country.

ďThe spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.Ē
Thomas Jefferson



"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" I used to attribute to T. Jefferson, apparently incorrectly.

The earliest usage of the phrase we have found is in a 1961 publication, The Use of Force in International Affairs: "If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?"
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Dingus said

If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.


what?

Dingus, please elaborate?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Norton, don't back him into a corner. He's probably rethinking that as we speak.

Or maybe not. Maybe he just has a personal definition of patriot. Many people do.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Steve Earle took a lot of heat for this one. But he recognized that John Walker certainly had his own point of view, and wrote the song from that perspective.

I'm just an American boy raised on MTV And I've seen all those kids in the soda pop ads But none of 'em looked like me So I started lookin' around for a light out of the dim And the first thing I heard that made sense was the word Of Mohammed, peace be upon him
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah There is no God but God
If my daddy could see me now chains around my feet He don't understand that sometimes A man has got to fight for what he believes And I believe God is great, all praise due to him And if I should die, I'll rise up to the sky Just like Jesus, peace be upon him
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah There is no God but God
We came to fight the jihad and our hearts were pure and strong As death filled the air, we all offered up prayers And prepared for our martyrdom But Allah had some other plan, some secret not revealed Now they're draggin' me back with my head in a sack To the land of the infidel
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah A shadu la ilaha illa Allah

Read more: STEVE EARLE - JOHN WALKER'S BLUES LYRICS



zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
I'm letting Jim Donini speak for me on this one!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
exploited by fellow citizens all the time too. If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

Donini is a patriot. Survival is a patriot. There are millions more just like em.

Some loudmouth in line to buy a pistol at Cabelas, draping the flag over her shoulders?

NOT A PATRIOT.


May I point out that 14% of our military members are now women and despite rules against having them in combat they have been in the last two wars. Wounded, killed, taken as POW's and now suffering PTSD the same as the men.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
For you Jan!

Credit: survival
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Thanks!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
so im NOT a patriot???
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Yes you are, ya whiny chicken.



More for Jan!!!

Credit: survival







Credit: survival







Credit: survival
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
this is as good a place as any to repost this, which was part of the short-lived norman schwarzkopf memorial thread started by cragman and then rather promptly done away with.

patriotism? fascist states have their share of outstanding patriots. a patriot in a democracy looks full face at what's wrong with his country and tries to do something about it. i wrote this originally for a former high school classmate named howard, who had served in the marines, and apparently had a rather positive military experience. he keeps peppering our high school class reunion page with superficial sentiments such as seem to affect moosedrool. the military isn't a football team. the role of the citizen extends beyond following cheerleaders.

howard, you always look at the bright side. here's a look at the other side.

i was sitting in a local coffeeshop about a month ago with an elderly friend of mine named zan. this guy is pushing 90 years of age, but he's still got a lot of passion going. like you, he's a veteran of the military, and maybe that's what keeps him soldiering on. he will stand out on the sidewalk during the oscar show in hollywood with signs protesting israel's role in world events. a frail-looking octogenarian, he has been physically attacked. can you imagine? but there's nothing frail about his spirit.

on this particular morning at this particular coffeeshop, ironically a couple days after veteran's day, zan and i were discussing the controversial subject of chemtrails, a subject which i've found very difficult to get a handle on. a man at a nearby table overheard our conversation for a time and then introduced himself and joined us. he was curious about chemtrails too, but after a bit, it became apparent he wanted to talk about his experience in the military. he looked to be around 50 years old.

he had served, from what i gathered, in the first war against iraq. i can give you a direct quote here, because i don't think i'll ever forget what he said.

"i'm ashamed of what i did. there was a village of 1,200 people, and they told us to go in and kill everyone, and we did."

when that sort of thing happened in vietnam, it eventually got on the evening news. walter cronkite made a career for himself reporting it, but he retired to his yachting and stopped paying close attention. poor lieutenant calley had to take all the blame for the my lai massacre.

nowadays, folks back home never hear all the details about all the "good" america does, and, because our military has so cleverly become an all-volunteer affair, no one pays attention to the "reasons" for the fighting, since johnny is likely to be in junior college and the guys in uniform are often named manuel or ernesto. as an aside, you may be interested to know that the first marine fatality from los angeles in the last iraq war had been an illegal alien from guatemala two years prior to joining up.

our friend at the coffeeshop had a bit more to say. several years after his stint in the military, he was approached to serve in iraq in a civilian capacity. the pay offering was extraordinary: $35,000 a month. he asked why they just didn't have the regular military do the work, which involved basic logistical support. came a two-word reply: depleted uranium.

do you know about that? you should. they say the cancer rates in the basra area, for those who still dare live there, are off the chart. there are also reports that american tank personnel developed rectal cancer by sitting on armor which uses the stuff. when you join the military, you may find yourself giving your life for your country in unexpected ways.

if you want to know more about the "good" america does, this is just the tip of an iceberg i could be putting up here. i've refrained from putting my personal politics on this page because i think it's important to use it for establishing and re-establishing friendships. i suggest you consider that as well.


i found riley to be an unexpected ally in this. he posted this link, which was also part of what cragman zapped:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/29/121029fa_fact_filkins?mobify=0

WBraun

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Hey what are those girls doing?

They should be back home.

The dishes and laundry are piling up ....

:-)
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

I haven't carried a weapon in combat. I haven't even been in the military. But I have served my country. I have worked hard to better myself and to better my country. I have worked in soup kitchens serving the poor. I have worked with gang kids to try and teach them a better way. I risked my life working with gang kids. So don't tell me I'm not a Patriot just because I haven't served in the military.

I have also done work to improve the relations that we have with our neighbors. I went to Mexico and spent a year building an orphanage. They knew I was from America and they appreciated me coming to help.

There are other things that I have done. I have marched against oppression. Marched against illegal wars. I have stood up for our military and done the best that I could to try and protect them from the war mongers.

I didn't carry a gun to try and stop the war. Was I wrong?

You say I'm not a patriot. I respect your right to say that. I respectfully submit that I am very much a Patriot and you can kiss my ass Dingus if you ever try to lord that over me.

Sincerely,
John Musgrove

P.S.. I have done a lot to help our returning Veterans readjust to life as a civilian. I have given away the last nickel in my pocket more then once to help a veteran. A veteran our country turned its back on.

You need to rethink your position Dingus.
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