I Love America!

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moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 16, 2013 - 07:01am PT
She is not stupid, just slow ;)

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

Winston Churchill
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2013 - 07:35am PT
I am not trolling here. We call her stupid, irresponsible, imperialistic, etc, but the truth is we all love America.

If we can’t solve our problems, next generations will. Why? Because we are getting smarter. At least according to R. Flynn, a researcher at the University of Otago in New Zealand:

IQ scores have been increasing steadily since the beginning of the 20th century. Flynn went on to examine intelligence-test data from more than two dozen countries and found that scores were rising by 0.3 point a year—three full points per decade. Nearly 30 years of follow-up studies have confirmed the statistical reality of the global uptick, now known as the Flynn effect. And scores are still climbing.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=will-we-keep-getting-smarter-flynn-effect-says-yes
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:38am PT
And she is being slowed to a virtual standstill by Tea Party Congressmen who reject science, foment racisim and govern with absolutely no grasp of the real problems confronting a "modern" America.

I love an America that is a beacon of freedom, hope and tolerance.....an America that is a leader in innovation and scientific research. The America that drew OUR ancestors to it's shores when they "immigrated" in order to find a better life for themselves and their progeny.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:40am PT
north, south,
central,
or un?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:42am PT
Moose, did you over medicate this morning?
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2013 - 07:52am PT
LOL Kenny. It is not the pills. I just woke up with a smile on my face for some reason :)

Donini:
And she is being slowed to a virtual standstill by Tea Party Congressmen who reject science, foment racisim and govern with absolutely no grasp of the real problems confronting a "modern" America.

True, but we also elected the first black president. What’s more, we re-elected him. The ignorant will eventually lose.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:54am PT
The signs are pointing in that direction.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:01am PT
The number of illegal aliens is down almost 40% in recent years. That pretty much sums it up, we're not as attractive as we used to be!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:10am PT
A shot of an axhibit at the Manzanar Internment Camp:

Credit: Reilly
There's someone who loves America.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:52am PT
Loving America -- or any country -- in the sense that Donini described above is one thing. Loving America -- or any country -- blindly, is quite another.

Blind patriotism is a what allows warmongers to have their way. It has been the death warrant for hundreds of millions of humans.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:55am PT
I reject the blind religion of patriotism. Ask not what good you can do for your country... no.

Ask... what GOOD is your country.

Hold her feet to the fire. She is only as good as today, yesterday's whine has nothing to do with tomorrow's promise.

Nada.

Mellenials... hold the answers, not the graybeards.

Reject the Religion of Apple Pie. No blind allegiance.

Hah!

I once swore an oath to protect yall with my life, if necessary. I meant it, eyes wide open. When I took that oath I felt the same way about America as I do now, in fact I wrote a college paper based on the Kennedy bastardization I wrote above.

Mrs Trautman gave me an A and I read that paper in a class of military professionals. :-)

I'd swear that oath again, and fight for US. Not for "America" though. For US.

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:58am PT
Yep, things ARE getting better....slowly

photo not found
Missing photo ID#284498
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:04am PT
I love the good ol' USA too!

But.....
*The government always bears close watching.

*Only half of my countrymen agree with my basic vision of America.
(Actually, most of us agree on most things, but there are a few issues that basically stop us dead in our tracks!)


*Speak loudly about the things you disagree with. That's one of the things I like about Ron, even though he's frequently wrong...HA!!

*Steve Earle said: "Yes, I'm a patriot, it's just that I've never worn red, white and blue very well."
Can I get an AMEN?!?!!!!!!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:07am PT
Steve Earl a patriot?

Did he tote a combat rifle?

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:10am PT
My wife hasn't toted a combat rifle but she loves America.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Jingoism, flag waving and the attitude, "my country, right or wrong, my country," is not real patriotism- wanting to make your country better IS.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Ghost, DMT, Donini, I completely agree. Patriotism is exploited by the politicians all the time. Being rational is the best way to serve your country. But I noticed that we (yours truly including) complain all the time about everything. It is healthy to balance the bad with the good. I think we are moving in the right direction, we are just slow.

Americans Optimistic About Life in 2013

PRINCETON, NJ -- Although Americans are generally pessimistic about the prospects for the nation's economy and international peace in the year ahead, the large majority (69%) say they are optimistic about how they and their family will do in 2013, while 27% are pessimistic.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159698/americans-optimistic-life-2013.aspx
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:21am PT
Steve Earl a patriot?

Did he tote a combat rifle?

Since when is toting a rifle a requirement of being a patriot?

Definition of PATRIOT
: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests



1.
a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.


I think Mr Earle might be down with that second definition in particular.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:23am PT
Patriotism is exploited by the politicians all the time.

exploited by fellow citizens all the time too. If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

Donini is a patriot. Survival is a patriot. There are millions more just like em.

Some loudmouth in line to buy a pistol at Cabelas, draping the flag over her shoulders?

NOT A PATRIOT.

DMT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:27am PT
Thanks for that DMT.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:27am PT
Toting a combat rifle in combat to defend your country at the risk of your own life is patriotism. Toting one into a school room or movie theater is not.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:30am PT
donini said:

Jingoism, flag waving and the attitude, "my country, right or wrong, my country," is not real patriotism- wanting to make your country better IS.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:32am PT
=


so when the US fights another "unjust war" or another "oil war"...and US soldiers slaughter ill-equipped peasant fighters in these "unjust wars" of US imperialism, or yet another "oil war" on behalf of US corporations...


those US soldiers are the only true "patriots" ?????



I thought the true "patriots" in these enlightened times were the activists trying to keep us out of all those imperalist wars and wars for oil


-
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:32am PT
"Tell me who's the real patriots
The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags
Or the people with the guts to work
For some real change?"
-the Dead Kennedy's,
- Stars and Stripes of Corruption
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:35am PT
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

with all due respect to those who've served...bullsh#t.






edit: nice cast though....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:35am PT
I used to listen to the radio
And I don’t guess they’re listenin’ to me no more
They talk too much but that’s okay
I don’t understand a single word they say
Piss and moan about the immigrants
But don’t say nothin’ about the president
A democracy don’t work that way
I can say anything I wanna say

So f*#k the FCC
F*#k the FBI
F*#k the CIA
Livin’ in the motherf*#kin’ USA

People tell me that I’m paranoid
And I admit I’m gettin’ pretty nervous, boy
It just gets tougher everyday
To sit around and watch it while it slips away
Been called a traitor and a patriot
Call me anything you want to but
Just don’t forget your history
Dirty Lenny died so we could all be free
*Steve Earle


Questioning your country is more patriotic than blindly leaping off a cliff for it.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:41am PT
I thought the true "patriots" in these enlightened times were the activists trying to keep us out of all those imperalist wars and wars for oil
Wrong...just ask dingus
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:42am PT


This is the best time of the day the dawn The final cleansing breath unsullied yet By acrid fume or death's cacophony The rank refuse of unchained ambition
And pray, deny me not but know me now Your faithful retainer stands resolute To serve his liege Lord without recompense Perchance to fall and perish namelessly
No flag draped bier or muffled drum to set The cadence for a final dress parade But it was not always thus remember Once you worshipped me and named me a God In many tongues and made offering lest I exact too terrible a tribute
Take heed for I am weary, ancient And decrepit now and my time grows short There are no honorable frays to join Only mean death dealt out in dibs and dabs Or horror unleashed from across oceans
Assail me not with noble policy For I care not at all for platitude And surrender such tedious detail To greater minds than mine and nimbler tongues Singular in their purpose and resolve And presuming to speak for everyman (Oh)
Oh, for another time, a distant field And there a mortal warrior's lonely grave But duty charges me remain until The end the last battle of the last war
Until that tomorrow render unto me That which is mine my stipend well deserved The fairest flower of your progeny Your sons, your daughters your hopes and your dreams The cruel consequence of your conceit

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:44am PT
Yes, it is most valuable to question your country.

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.”
Thomas Jefferson



"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" I used to attribute to T. Jefferson, apparently incorrectly.

The earliest usage of the phrase we have found is in a 1961 publication, The Use of Force in International Affairs: "If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?"
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:47am PT
Dingus said

If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.


what?

Dingus, please elaborate?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Norton, don't back him into a corner. He's probably rethinking that as we speak.

Or maybe not. Maybe he just has a personal definition of patriot. Many people do.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Steve Earle took a lot of heat for this one. But he recognized that John Walker certainly had his own point of view, and wrote the song from that perspective.

I'm just an American boy raised on MTV And I've seen all those kids in the soda pop ads But none of 'em looked like me So I started lookin' around for a light out of the dim And the first thing I heard that made sense was the word Of Mohammed, peace be upon him
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah There is no God but God
If my daddy could see me now chains around my feet He don't understand that sometimes A man has got to fight for what he believes And I believe God is great, all praise due to him And if I should die, I'll rise up to the sky Just like Jesus, peace be upon him
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah There is no God but God
We came to fight the jihad and our hearts were pure and strong As death filled the air, we all offered up prayers And prepared for our martyrdom But Allah had some other plan, some secret not revealed Now they're draggin' me back with my head in a sack To the land of the infidel
A shadu la ilaha illa Allah A shadu la ilaha illa Allah

Read more: STEVE EARLE - JOHN WALKER'S BLUES LYRICS



zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:00am PT
I'm letting Jim Donini speak for me on this one!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:03am PT
exploited by fellow citizens all the time too. If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

Donini is a patriot. Survival is a patriot. There are millions more just like em.

Some loudmouth in line to buy a pistol at Cabelas, draping the flag over her shoulders?

NOT A PATRIOT.


May I point out that 14% of our military members are now women and despite rules against having them in combat they have been in the last two wars. Wounded, killed, taken as POW's and now suffering PTSD the same as the men.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:08am PT
For you Jan!

Credit: survival
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Thanks!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:12am PT
so im NOT a patriot???
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Yes you are, ya whiny chicken.



More for Jan!!!

Credit: survival







Credit: survival







Credit: survival
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:18am PT
this is as good a place as any to repost this, which was part of the short-lived norman schwarzkopf memorial thread started by cragman and then rather promptly done away with.

patriotism? fascist states have their share of outstanding patriots. a patriot in a democracy looks full face at what's wrong with his country and tries to do something about it. i wrote this originally for a former high school classmate named howard, who had served in the marines, and apparently had a rather positive military experience. he keeps peppering our high school class reunion page with superficial sentiments such as seem to affect moosedrool. the military isn't a football team. the role of the citizen extends beyond following cheerleaders.

howard, you always look at the bright side. here's a look at the other side.

i was sitting in a local coffeeshop about a month ago with an elderly friend of mine named zan. this guy is pushing 90 years of age, but he's still got a lot of passion going. like you, he's a veteran of the military, and maybe that's what keeps him soldiering on. he will stand out on the sidewalk during the oscar show in hollywood with signs protesting israel's role in world events. a frail-looking octogenarian, he has been physically attacked. can you imagine? but there's nothing frail about his spirit.

on this particular morning at this particular coffeeshop, ironically a couple days after veteran's day, zan and i were discussing the controversial subject of chemtrails, a subject which i've found very difficult to get a handle on. a man at a nearby table overheard our conversation for a time and then introduced himself and joined us. he was curious about chemtrails too, but after a bit, it became apparent he wanted to talk about his experience in the military. he looked to be around 50 years old.

he had served, from what i gathered, in the first war against iraq. i can give you a direct quote here, because i don't think i'll ever forget what he said.

"i'm ashamed of what i did. there was a village of 1,200 people, and they told us to go in and kill everyone, and we did."

when that sort of thing happened in vietnam, it eventually got on the evening news. walter cronkite made a career for himself reporting it, but he retired to his yachting and stopped paying close attention. poor lieutenant calley had to take all the blame for the my lai massacre.

nowadays, folks back home never hear all the details about all the "good" america does, and, because our military has so cleverly become an all-volunteer affair, no one pays attention to the "reasons" for the fighting, since johnny is likely to be in junior college and the guys in uniform are often named manuel or ernesto. as an aside, you may be interested to know that the first marine fatality from los angeles in the last iraq war had been an illegal alien from guatemala two years prior to joining up.

our friend at the coffeeshop had a bit more to say. several years after his stint in the military, he was approached to serve in iraq in a civilian capacity. the pay offering was extraordinary: $35,000 a month. he asked why they just didn't have the regular military do the work, which involved basic logistical support. came a two-word reply: depleted uranium.

do you know about that? you should. they say the cancer rates in the basra area, for those who still dare live there, are off the chart. there are also reports that american tank personnel developed rectal cancer by sitting on armor which uses the stuff. when you join the military, you may find yourself giving your life for your country in unexpected ways.

if you want to know more about the "good" america does, this is just the tip of an iceberg i could be putting up here. i've refrained from putting my personal politics on this page because i think it's important to use it for establishing and re-establishing friendships. i suggest you consider that as well.


i found riley to be an unexpected ally in this. he posted this link, which was also part of what cragman zapped:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/29/121029fa_fact_filkins?mobify=0

WBraun

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:19am PT
Hey what are those girls doing?

They should be back home.

The dishes and laundry are piling up ....

:-)
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:55am PT
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

I haven't carried a weapon in combat. I haven't even been in the military. But I have served my country. I have worked hard to better myself and to better my country. I have worked in soup kitchens serving the poor. I have worked with gang kids to try and teach them a better way. I risked my life working with gang kids. So don't tell me I'm not a Patriot just because I haven't served in the military.

I have also done work to improve the relations that we have with our neighbors. I went to Mexico and spent a year building an orphanage. They knew I was from America and they appreciated me coming to help.

There are other things that I have done. I have marched against oppression. Marched against illegal wars. I have stood up for our military and done the best that I could to try and protect them from the war mongers.

I didn't carry a gun to try and stop the war. Was I wrong?

You say I'm not a patriot. I respect your right to say that. I respectfully submit that I am very much a Patriot and you can kiss my ass Dingus if you ever try to lord that over me.

Sincerely,
John Musgrove

P.S.. I have done a lot to help our returning Veterans readjust to life as a civilian. I have given away the last nickel in my pocket more then once to help a veteran. A veteran our country turned its back on.

You need to rethink your position Dingus.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:10am PT
John Musgrove I applaud your service to your communities and your fellow citizens. But you're no patriot. It seems you don't understand the origins of the word - but I'll sum it up for you: if you're a patriot so is Rush Limbaugh.

DMT

ps. I mean you no disrespect. But patriots are born in combat.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:12am PT
if you're a patriot so is Rush Limbaugh.

Tell me one decent thing Rush limbaugh has done. Teaching hate isn't Patriotic.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:14am PT
You must have your own definition of Patriotism



pa·tri·ot [pey-tree-uh t, -ot or, esp. British, pa-tree-uh t] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
3.
( initial capital letter ) Military . a U.S. Army antiaircraft missile with a range of 37 miles (60 km) and a 200-pound (90 kg) warhead, launched from a tracked vehicle with radar and computer guidance and fire control.

....

Care to expand on what you think a Patriot is?
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:16am PT
ps. I mean you no disrespect. But patriots are born in combat


assuming "patriotism" is a good quality in a person...then the German soldiers fighting for Nazi Germany were also patriotic?




-
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Decency doesn't equal patriot. Doing good deeds, selflessly serving your community, doesn't equal patriot. There are other words, good words, that apply; patriot isn't it. I think our modern world has cheapened the word beyond any real meaning and I don't buy it.

Again I mean you no disrespect nor do I in any way think less of your accomplishments. Btw, I am no patriot either and I place your deeds and community service far above my own. You DO have my respect.

But you are not a patriot. Sorry.

DMT
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:18am PT
the u.s.a. is a special country, moosie. if your definition came out of a british dictionary, that isn't good enough for me. try this one:

"to protect and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

i think you guys are batting about 50 percent on that.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Toting a combat rifle in combat to defend your country at the risk of your own life is patriotism


the phrase "to defend your own country" is the key here


so if someone believes that North Korea circa 1950, and Vietnam, and Iraq circa 2003 were NOT a threat to American soil, were the soldiers who fought there truly being "patriotic"


???????
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:22am PT
So you just make up what you want the word to mean? No wonder its so difficult to communicate in this world.

John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:24am PT
There are lots of ways to defend ones country besides carrying a rifle. God help us if that is the only way.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:24am PT
This is nutso,
But you're no patriot. It seems you don't understand the origins of the word - but I'll sum it up for you: if you're a patriot so is Rush Limbaugh.

Really, sometimes his arrogance - I mean ARROGANCE - knows no bounds.


I know the origins of the word. You're spouting bs. Again.

.....

So don't tell me I'm not a Patriot just because I haven't served in the military.

That's EXACTLY right.

Moosie, see, we have our common ground. ;)
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:25am PT
-


and if US soldiers fighting "imperialist wars" and "oil wars" at the behest of the out-of-control military industrial complex and US multi-national corporations are patriotic...are they (we) just as misguided as German soldiers/citizens were during the Nazi regime???




i'm confused




-


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:43am PT
John M, Dingus means you have to be a missile. Accept no substitutes.
You, Helen Keller, and Martin Luther King are just poseurs.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:57am PT
What about all those who served in combat against the US? How does their patriotism stack up against an American's patriotism?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 11:59am PT
The most noxious slogan I can think of is "America, love it or leave it."

I much prefer

"America, love it by improving it."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Hey, Ghost, no wisecracks from a ferriner!

And if I out-ranked Dingus then I'm more of a Patriot, right?
Especially cause my gun was bigger. Jess sayin'...

Credit: Reilly

But it was really hard to tote.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
better to let dingus explain..
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
"to protect and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

A person can't do everything. Some defend against foreign enemies, others defend against domestic enemies.

Poverty is a domestic enemy.
Not supporting our Veterans is a domestic enemy that undermines the strength of our country.

I have fought against both of those.

Maybe we need a Dingus Dictionary. That way we all can be on the same page. Words are how we communicate. If one can change the definition of a word to suit themselves, then communication becomes nearly impossible.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
I think Dingus is just having fun trolling.

I have read his posts for years and he is a smart guy.

No way Dingus could be serious about defining ONLY combat as Patriotism


By his definition, only George Washington is the ONLY patriotic American President.

And also, almost every member of congress is NOT a patriot.

No one, absolutely no one, is so deranged to limit patriotism to combat.

Dingus is just messing with us all.

John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Norton.. He has said it before. I believe that is how he defines a Patriot. I don't accept his definition, but its his right to believe that.

If he is trolling, well then sh#t. Hooked again.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Quote Here
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

I'd be interested, DMT, to know why you limit patriotism to someone who hase not only served in the military, but seen combat.

According to Dictionary.com, the term "patriot" is defines as such:

pa·tri·ot
[pey-tree-uh t, -ot or, esp. British, pa-tree-uh t] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2.
a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
3.
( initial capital letter ) Military . a U.S. Army antiaircraft missile with a range of 37 miles (60 km) and a 200-pound (90 kg) warhead, launched from a tracked vehicle with radar and computer guidance and fire control.



Doesn't specify combat in this definition.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
I don't accept those emasculated, watered-downed and co-opted terms. patriotism was born of blood and revolution. Librarians, politicians (no matter how many they ordered to their deaths) are not patriots. Declaring love for one's country makes one a patriot? Lah dee dah.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
By his definition, only George Washington is the ONLY patriotic American President.

And also, almost every member of congress is NOT a patriot.

Correct you are.

I am trolling you. Every post is s troll. I am also smart, AND a peacenik. I hate war.

I am also perfectly serious. I don't care if you neverserveds get your doilies deranged by it either. A partiot FIGHTS for her country, accept no substitutes.

Watching Patton does not make one a patriot. Posting left wing sh#t on the internet... not patriot. Giving away some dental care or dropping a buck in the salvation army bucket? Compassionate and kind to be sure, but not a patriot.

Many patriots were killers, out and out. The may have done far more harm to their country than good, over all. But they were still patriots.

Sorry of your lack of service causes you discomfort but if it does bother you its your load to bear, not mine.

DMT

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Bored today, Dingus?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
These f*#king f*#kers on this f*#king f*#ked airline done f*#ked me again.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
All you patriots?

Thank you for your f*#king panic-driven patriot act. Now how do you like your definition?

DMT
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
I fear, DMT, that you took for gospel something you were told by those who held authority over you in the military; something that was told to you by design - to instill a seed in your mind that, because you went out to kill or be killed, that made you a higher caliber of citizen than others.

If so - then you fell for just another brand of religion yourself.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Lol. Feathers are ruffled, oh my!

Are you a patriot happigurl?

Is Jerry Brown?

How about your mailwoman?

The kid down at the grocery?

Are we a nation of patriots? Does a forced swearing of allegiance to a flag of cloth opt one in?

Sheesh. You people.... Citizens of the Empire, your togas are open!

DMT
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
I don't consider myself a patriot. I will fight for my life pretty much only so long as I still have Teddy to defend and care for. Once he passes, I have no obligation to another being. So I guess I am a Tediot!

Patriot... I guess it is born of an allegience to the patriachy. Hmmm...my country, my land, is Mother Nature. Not some group of old men..
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Its born of combat, period. Ain't gonna let no neverserveds claim it without a rassling match. The majority of those wankers posting to Dr Fs Bullshit Show are not patriots they're the opposite - carpetbaggers on the backs of real patriots, all the while ignoring the blood upon which their beds are made -liberal and conservative alike.

If you ain't served in combat, don't disrespect them that did by claiming to be a patriot. That's like accepting a purple heart because the General's bookcase fell on you while moving from West Point to Ft Benning during the time of war. Charlatans.

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
I don't buy what you are selling, Dingus

you are too damn smart for that

nice troll


getting paid off by CMac for pushing the thread count higher?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
hey Dingus,, were you an REMF???
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Hey Ron I'm no patriot. Please try to pay attention.

DMT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Bored today, Dingus?


Phukkin' Ghost cracks me up! Free bag of green chile for you bro.

And breasts!
( * )( * )
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
I love America for a lot of things, mostly for opportunity
I hate America for a lot of things, mostly its ignorant, selfish people

But I hate blind nationalism most of all

I've literally travelled "around the world in 180 days," and have been to 35 countries. I've seen a lot of good and lot of really bad. A lot of good people stuck in really bad circumstances with no opportunity.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Patriot

Don't ask don't tell.
Don't ask don't tell.
Credit: The Larry
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Dood, I'm pretty sure metrosexuals can't be patriots.
At least not with that sweater.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
That's a nice sweater I have one the same color, in my suitcase goes with my eyes ;-). I received many comments about it in NYC from women and men alike.

Wanna walk in my shoes? Talk a walk on the wild side. All the colored girls sang do, do do di do, do do di doo. (do do di do, do do di do)

Bored today, Dingus?


Phukkin' Ghost cracks me up! Free bag of green chile for you bro.

And breasts!
( * )( * )

:-) I have anxiety issues on flights home after long weeks. F*#king with outraged neverserveds about their unfulfilled desire to be patriots is therapeutic. Being absolutely 100% correct makes it even more fun.

I'm feeling better already.

Do you know the Battle Hymn of the Chickenhawk?

"I'm a Patriot 2!" Weird Al Yankovich

Bwahahahahahaha.

DMT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
Looks like you're feeling better man. I guess the drink cart made it down the aisle finally.


W00T!!!

Breasts for you too!
( * )( * )
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Yep :-)

Thank you for your posting survival. :-)

I meant every word I said in this thread though, as you know I do.

DMT
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 16, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
Patriotism is a smoke show. Seems that on this forum, a patriot is someone that agrees with a posters political beliefs, conservative or liberal. I think our govt is a corrupt entity that is populated with politicians that are largely in it for their own narcissistic satisfaction. I do pay my taxes with out complaint so I must be a patriot.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
Oh yeah? Where's your combat ribbon from?!


Kidding man. I chuckles out loud....heh heh heh....
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
I do pay my taxes with out complaint so I must be a patriot.

That's what Bluering used to say, and it never failed to rile Dingus. And it somewhat confused me, because if the qualification for being a patriotic American is paying taxes to the US government, then that makes me a patriotic American, too. But how can that be, when I'm not American at all? If foreigners who come to your country and take your jobs and steal your women (or men) are just as patriotic as Bluering, what does that say about Bluering. Or you?

Edit to add: I guess I must be bored today, too.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Man, am I lucky I haven’t started “I am a Patriot” thread!

You almost got me confused :)

I love America because… Forget it! Love does not need justification.


BUT:

I came to the USA with my wife, two kids and about $3,000. I started working painting houses while my wife was looking for a job. After a few months she found a temporary job as a lab technician. After another few months she was hired as a scientist. Then I found a job in a lab. I started from washing dishes. Soon I found a job as a chemist, and after three years got promoted to a manager. All of that happened because other people helped us. There were Americans and there were complete strangers.
Here, on ST people show their sympathy and kindness to others all the time, including me.
So, forgive my affection, STFUAGC!

Andrzej Citkowicz
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
Bluering is the quintessential non-patriot.

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
nice post, drool

kind of the American dream and all
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
Great post drool!

Hey Ghost, what hockey team does your wife play for?
BWA HA HA hahahahahaaa!!!!!
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
My combat ribbon was sold to pay for my next climbing trip. Instead being barked at by some a**hole military dude, I was plotting how to finance my next trip to ( fill in cool climbing destination). At the peak of my dirtbaggery, I moved to Chamonix! GASP
I totally am not a patriot. I also enjoy playing and watching soccer/futbol. I should probably move to Canada or something.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
Dingus, by your definition patriots are a dieing breed. WWII was the last time we defended Ol' Glory.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
The Larry, who's 'We'?

DMT
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
My Grandpa and maybe yours.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Hey Ghost, what hockey team does your wife play for?

Well Bruce, if you think I get confused about things patriotic, her situation is even crazier. The one country that doesn't play a part in it though, is Canada.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
WWII was the last time we defended Ol' Glory.


Hmmmm, I can think of a few million Korea, Nam, Gulf 1, Gulf 2 and Afghanistan vets who would disagree.............












Well Bruce, if you think I get confused about things patriotic, her situation is even crazier. The one country that doesn't play a part in it though, is Canada.

Ok, well PM me so I can understand! You still get free chile though.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
I went and got me one of these:


The National Defense Service Medal.

But I ain't no g#$%&mn patriot. That kinda talk is for Sarah, Track, Tank, Trig, Todd, and Tugboat (or wTF ever they named the latest snowbilly).
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
That kinda talk is for Sarah, Track, Tank, Trig, Todd, and Tugboat (or wTF ever they named the latest snowbilly).


Ok, that was funny as FUK!
And I was raised Alaskan! G'damn, maybe that's what made it so phuggin funny!
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
I'm pretty sure the last country that attacked us was Japan.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
^^^
I'm pretty sure it was Saudi Arabia.

I did a few years in AK, during the time when Caribou Barbie ran and won the Governorship. People think she was an inept clown (and they are right), but they should get to know the guy she beat in the primary, John Binkley, a local Fairbanks family-money guy who was an even bigger as#@&%e and moron. I had to deal with that goober and his dipshit brother in the course of my job. Sarah looked like Rhodes Scholar material next to these entitled buffoons.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 16, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
I'm pretty sure it was Saudi Arabia.
Via Asscrackistan and a basement in Germany, and England and Los Angeles and and and and and and and and.

While I agree that we can't just take off on adventure wars whenever we see fit, it's a bit more complicated than Pearl Harbor these days.

But what do I know? I'm only a high school graduate...............
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
I'm pretty sure it was Saudi Arabia.

nah, Saudi Arabia did not attack us on 9/11

but a number of their "rogue" citizens did, just like we got some loose screws here too
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
A person can't do everything. Some defend against foreign enemies, others defend against domestic enemies.

Poverty is a domestic enemy.
Not supporting our Veterans is a domestic enemy that undermines the strength of our country.

I have fought against both of those.

i guess you assume our country is strong, moose. i think it's weak. oh, it's become the bully of the world, but its people are cowering, self-absorbed, ignorant, and quite happy about it. except, of course, when chickens come home to roost.

your fighting seems to be in the past tense. a patriot would look around and find lots to keep fighting about. freedom isn't free, and it's being strangled every day while you "patriots" pose and posture.

the fallacy of the militarism i hear being voiced here is that one must have a war. without a war, there can be no patriotism, no heroism, might as well not have a country. from my point of view, the vietnam era saw the real patriots coming to the fore, using our national media, our democratic processes and our cultural debate to end a war that was a piece of sh#t being shoved down our throats for reasons no one could make sense of. america won the vietnam war, but it wasn't the unthinking soldiers who enlisted and took the orders to kill for no good reason. the american people ended that war, the first war and only war ever ended by a people in the history of the world. frankly, i think it's something to be very, very proud of.

but then the spin doctors got ahold of it and no one cares to remember it that way at all. the mandatory draft was abolished, the military turned into the province of wannabe rambos (we certainly have our share of them on supertopo), dummies who can't make it into junior college, and illegal aliens. yes, illegal aliens, as i noted above. while the tea party people are grousing about losing their w.a.s.p. culture, the army fills up with second-, first- and sometimes wetback-generation latinos who think it's a great inside track to the american mainstream. you can bet they leave their critical thinking and their sense of duty to anything as abstract as the constitution way back at the port of entry. what el padron asks, el padron gets.

i put you in that category, andrzej. i will tell you point blank that i think that foreigners coming over here looking at a corrupt system through rosy-colored glasses, thinking they're in a big candy store, is the last thing america needs. this country is sick and it needs to cure itself. if you like it better than the communist system which used to infect poland, take those glasses off and it will become more and more familiar.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
"dummies who can't make it into junior college".

There's that common touch you're becoming famous for Tony. Did your fingernails get dirty by choice or circumstance ?

You are a snob.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 03:56pm PT


"dummies who can't make it into junior college".


how about Community College?

don't know, does that have the same status as Junior College?

and then there is General College verus College of Liberal Arts

can we get a good ranking?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 16, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
can we get a good ranking?

And does having a degree in chemistry make you more patriotic than someone who has a degree in engineering?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jan 16, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Patriots? Yes, some of the best. What would we do without them.


Credit: lostinshanghai

“From January 1997 until being sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense in January 2001, Rumsfeld served as Chairman of Gilead Sciences, Inc. Gilead Sciences is the developer of Tamiflu (Oseltamivir), which is used in the treatment of bird flu.[36] As a result, Rumsfeld's holdings in the company grew significantly when avian flu became a subject of popular anxiety during his later term as Secretary of Defense. Following standard practice, Rumsfeld recused himself from any decisions involving Gilead, and he directed the Pentagon's General Counsel to issue instructions outlining what he could and could not be involved in if there were an avian flu pandemic and the Pentagon had to respond.[37][38][39]”

Remember all those $$$$$$$$ added to the debt for profit or is it death for profit? A Patriot to heart.

Credit: lostinshanghai

Oliver “Goofy” North? He is currently on the board of NRA.

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a secretive "scenario and drill" developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be "national security threats", in the event that the President declares a "State of National Emergency". The plan states events causing such a declaration would be widespread U.S. opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad, such as if the United States were to directly invade Central America.[1][2][3][4][5] To combat what the government perceived as "subversive activities", the plan also authorized the military to direct ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels.[6]

Was written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North. True Patriot for sure. All those US weapons left in Iragi hands to kill our own and will continue. Wait you are thinking that was Latin America what has he do with Irag? He is a Patriot, his kind of patriotism always in secrets and lies.

Credit: lostinshanghai

How about Pat Robertson? who gave funds to North and some comrades many years back and still does: Dictates for THEOCRACY; by all means the greatest Patriot. He tried once as Presidential candidate. Wonder why God did not warn him of the disaster? He has not admitted it but sure he agrees with “Sandy Hook truthers.” Much like the “9/11 truthers,” who cast doubt on the veracity of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, these people say the school shootings were a massive hoax or conspiracy perpetrated by the government [Obama] or others [Muslims].

Credit: lostinshanghai

And his dead buddy, well actually they never got along but wanted an agenda for a NEW AMERICA.

"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The Churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." - "America Can be Saved," January 1, 1979


Credit: lostinshanghai


President Cheney, for sure, He has to be one, as soon as he dies everyone will rejoice in saying the most dedicated and devoted man to this Country.


Another Patriot:

Credit: lostinshanghai

And another:

Credit: lostinshanghai

One that needed his wife Nancy to have cards read from the dead to make decisions, some too late.

AH! Yes there must be more: Coors as in the beer,


Yes! true Patriots, where would we be without them?




















donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 16, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
Quite a nice "rogues gallery" you have assembled.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
moosedrool-

I'm glad you're living out the American dream but the first thing that strikes me about your story is that you have done well because you received a good education before you got here. One does not become a lab technician or a chemist overnight. In fact, of all the U.S. military students I've had during a 37 year teaching career for a university that gives classes to the military overseas, the best prepared were those from the former Soviet bloc. Whatever else they did over there, they provided excellent education.

Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
tony-

I think you sound very racist, intimating that only unqualified minorities join the military. In my experience, the minority students are motivated and hard working, and appreciate the military because they know it's about the only American institution that gives them a truly equal chance. In my experience, it's mostly lower class white guys who joined because they couldn't do anything else. Most important, there are plenty of self sacrificing and idealistic men and women in our military (true patriots I would say) and they come from all races, religions, and ethnic groups.

If you want to insult your fellow Americans, go after all the ignorant, apathetic and spoiled folks back home who party on while others sacrifice. Whether those sacrifices are based on correct principles or not, depends on the politicians that the ignorant elect. The average military person is well aware that they are often called upon to defend useless and corrupt policies in the interests of the rich and powerful. They deal with it by trying to maintain their personal honor and their unit's survival in spite of all that.

There are of course potential problems with an all volunteer military, especially in a democracy. We may or may not beat the historic trend to end up with a military dictatorship as a result. If we do, it will be because the civilians abdicated all responsibility for maintaining a civilized society and sank in their own corruption, not because our military wanted power.

More immediately, military technology is so sophisticated these days, it takes way more training to master than a two year draftee has time and motivation for. Even the Marine Corps is demanding that all of its members take college courses to try to stay on top of it. The average military person of whatever ethnic group and background is far more technologically adept than the average American.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:04pm PT

i guess you assume our country is strong, moose. i think it's weak.

You make some poor assumptions.

Patriot John reporting for duty.



ups yours Dingus..Since according to you you are not a patriot either.

Patriotism can't be defined in such black and white terms. I am sorry that you don't understand that.

You are just as dangerous as the religious nuts.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
i didn't say minorities, jan. i said NON-CITIZENS.

military service is a burden which, in all fairness, ought to be borne equally by all strata of society. i think your sentiments, to the contrary, belie a more sinister racism, to the tune of let the minorities risk their lives while the white kids stay in college.

i speak from what i've seen. when mariko became a citizen, we went down to the swearing-in ceremony, a room full of many kinds of people at the courthouse in downtown los angeles. they "honored" those in uniform by letting them come up first.

wait a minute--in uniform? not yet a citizen? some of them had rank as high as sergeant.

the first marine body bag to come back to los angeles from the last gulf war got a write-up in the los angeles times. the fellow had been an illegal from guatemala two years before, sneaked in here to live with his sister, then figured the military would be a good deal.

want more? there are a whole bunch in this city that are fairly outraged by many aspects of recruiting. and one report--i have no way of confirming it, but it's just as outrageous as the other stuff--says that recruiters go down to tijuana high school and address the student body thus: "if you've got a green card, i've got a deal for you."

oh, it's quite a tea party, but they aren't just anchor babies, they're anchor soldiers.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
ups yours Dingus..Since according to you you are not a patriot either.

When you gain some reading comprehension skillz, come try to knock the battery off my shoulder once more.


DMT
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
My reading skills are just fine Dingus.

You have a narrow definition of what a Patriot is. Thats fine. I disagree..

You want to knock the battery off my shoulder?


Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Ohhhh goodness...

Cabin fever anyone?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
Could you reflect on what you think of various citizens as stratified, Tony ?

Is intellect nascent or a product delivered to the people who get to go beyond high school ?

You unfortunately express your self as a horse's ass by way of privilege. Monkeys from space started the world we live in ?

HUH ?
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Cabin fever anyone?

More like Dingus is on the prod because he is back on a grueling work schedule.

Me.. I have had a raging headache for 3 days.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
go to hell, brennan.

but i'll give you one more statistic i remember quite well, from the first gulf war, under king george bush the first. congress anguished over that one, but like the batch of lackeys that they all are, voted yes, lest they be perceived as "unpatriotic". that's what this thread is about, no?--the "patriotism" of a polish immigrant who thinks this is the peachiest country in the world.

how many people are there in congress? a hundred senators and four hundred or so in the house of reps? of this grand group voting to send american young people to risk their lives, only two had sons or daughters in the military.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
If you have a mere 3 hours some time, check out America's condition here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zotYU21qcU
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
National Defense Service Medal

I got one of those.

Don't think it makes me a patriot though, certainly not per Dingus' definition.

All I had to do to get it was show up to work.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
I think hell will suit me just fine Tony, except for the fact I don't believe in it.

You play both sides by decrying the waste of youth in war for the wrong reasons and then sneer at those who do go for being uneducated.

Snob.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
I think everyone should talk less & say more.
And mean it.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
What can I say? That I am in pain when I see ignorance, negligence, selfishness, pride, prejudice, fanaticism, and myriad other flaws? Yes I am. Should I hate America for that? Of course not. In my life I found more good than bad, even in Poland under Soviet occupation. Sure, I've been cheated and fooled. I am old and I've seen it all. Am I naive still believing in people? Well, so far my philosophy served me well. I would rather take a chance and trust a stranger then trust nobody. Sounds bitter and lonely to me.
One more thing, the government does not define the country.

Edit: I have no opinion on patriotism other than that the word is overused.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
other than that the word is overused.

amen to that.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
Dear John

I already wrote twice I am no patriot. So either you have adhd or you simply don't understand the written word. I suspect neither, rather it seems you are very emo, quick to judge and even quicker to take offense. Oh well, that's certainly your perogitive.

And you are correct I am not a patriot despite direct service to my country. Neither are you. Now I fully expect you to continue to make this personal, again in keeping with your posting history.

Sean hannity claims the title patriot. He dodged service too. Hey! Maybe you can join fox news!

DMT
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
you read what you want, brennan, and ignore the rest.

sen. eugene mccarthy of minnesota, known for his liberal sentiments, surprised a few people by fighting the all-volunteer military as best he could during the 1970s, a losing battle. he knew what it would do to the country. it has made the military into an elite, not a citizen's military, and now we have people, as he predicted, right here on this thread claiming to be more citizen than the rest of us. that's about the most un-american thing i can imagine. that cheapens this country, a country that had a great governmental heritage and a spirit of common decency. might have been a light to the world. maybe we blew it, but i guess i think we still ought to try to pull it together.

moosedrool, you were just grandstanding to your audience here, expecting a love fest. you just don't know america very well yet. i hope you stick around and learn to roll up your sleeves.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
Most things in life are personal Dingus. Its too bad you don't understand that. Its how men can sit back and send others to war. They don't make it personal enough.

You and I disagree with the definition of Patriot. It appears we wont ever agree. but I wont have you insult me just because I didn't serve in the military. I served my country. I did it whole heartedly. I did good.

You want an easy definition of Patriot so that people like Rush limbaugh can't co opt the word to describe themselves. I believe it has a much more profound and less black and white definition. That makes it easier for people to call themselves Patriots, but that doesn't make them a Patriot.

I am a Patriot.

Don't like that statement.. Too bad.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
On a positive note:

I do love America but I think anything worth much can stand up to a critique.

Regardless -

America presents the best example and template of law through the American Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Canada repatriated our constitution from Britain in 1982.

1982 !

We finally had some local, legal traction against the federal police henchmen that are the RCMP.

Canada is known for civil responsibility and government. That only works if there is federal honesty. There is an incredible amount of judicial stupidity that cost some innocent people years of their lives by being wrongfully convicted in order to save some socially presumptuous reputations.

The accused were simply not quite on if they had to be scrutinized at a nice dinner party. How one holds a fork and the state of their shoes became a non issue when our constitution was federally ratified.

It made the comfortable itch and the judicial branch squirm but the result is people are willing to say GFYS here and make the state explain themselves.

The American Constitution and Bill of Rights did set the worm turning up north in the face of the weight of state offering caution...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Hannity. Limbaugh. Rumsfeld. Each claim the title patriot just like you. Fine, enjoy your company, pat yourselves on the back.

DMT
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
I don't claim the same company as they do. Try to figure that out and stop with the simplistic idealism.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
A patriot is one who makes this world a better place.
John M

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
Dingus, in your effort to disempower those people like Rush you insult others.
QITNL

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
You guys are arguing about Americans. I love America. I'm talking geography!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
guys, Dingus is just trolling out of boredom

this patriotism thing?

Dingus is just not THAT stupid, get it?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Aw...

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:24pm PT

What next you 2 going to lay claim to the title 'climber' too hahahaha

DMT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Oh Tony,

I don't pick and choose, your points stated are public record. It's just not polite to call someone a master of the obvious.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 16, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
Tony-

I don't know why you are so surprised or offended that we have non citizens in our military. As two Nigerians in the Marine Corps told me, "we too want the good life, and this was the way to get it". How is that different than the people who stowed away on ships in the past to get here, who swim the Rio Grande, float from Cuba or Haiti, or came on 7 year indentures to build things like the transcontinental railroad? They want to come, and they are willing to risk something for it.

As for white kids being in college while the military is turned over to the non citizens and ethnic minorities, you've obviously not been exposed to some of the trailer trash in our military or you wouldn't think they're all in college. We give them the opportunity for a free college education while in the service and with the exception of the the Air Force, a basically middle class institution, most every classroom is filled with minorities looking to get ahead while the white guys drink beer and complain. Likewise, white women outnumber white men in college nationwide. Whose fault is that? The government's?

I'm a big fan of Chris Hedges by the way, and am no supporter of the American empire. However, things are never simple dichotomies.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
So dingus, I'm fuzzy on this patriot thing. Likewise I don't really know what "battle born" means.
Example;
My dad flew in the nose turret of a B-24 over Japan during World War II. He was a weather officer. He never shot at anyone. As far as I know he was never shot at. He did fly over major cities (like Nagasaki) and report back to the powers that be about the weather conditions, info they used to decide when and where to send bomber missions.later he taught me to drive a clutch on a '72 Toyota Corona mark II
 Was he a patriot, was that battle born?

His older brother, my uncle, that I'm named after, joined the army to ride horses around Hyde Park in Chicago, in the cavalary. When the war started they mechanized the cavalry. Oops, no more tall boots and riding crops. They put him in a tank and sent him to the battle of the bulge. When his higher ups were obliterated he got a field promotion to Colonel. He shot at people and was shot at in turn.
Now if I'm following this, he Was a patriot because of the shooting part, right?
WBraun

climber
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I hope one day you will join us and the world will be as one

Well said Yoko
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
Yoko????
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:47pm PT


You tell 'em TONY!!...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#283448
...

Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 16, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
In the US Army, soldiers wear the insignia of their current unit on the left shoulder of the uniform.

There is no unit insignia on the right shoulder -- unless a soldier has seen combat. Combat veterans wear the insignia of that unit where they first saw combat on the right side, and this never changes.

The "patch on the right shoulder" is considered to be a badge of honor. It is a way to easily identify what soldiers are combat veterans.

When I served in the late 1980s, a patch on the right soldier was uncommon. Only Vietnam vets had them, and younger soldiers generally had a lot of respect for these guys.

Soldiers who participated in the Grenada "invasion" and the Panama thing were authorized to wear the patch on the right shoulder. Since these were small operations, there were relatively few soldiers that wore them. One could easily tell who went to Grenada because they has a right patch and they were under 30. It was a strange contrast - the young soldiers who saw perhaps a day of very light combat wearing the same badge as Vietnam vets who had experienced the worst of war.

These days the right patch is pretty common - I see it all the time in the airports when I travel. I've heard that the army has lowered the standard for who can wear it -- they've loosened the definition of "combat" veteran. Now I believe all you have to do is be in a unit deployed in a combat theater, even if you are nowhere near any fighting.

The same is true for the Combat Infantryman's Badge - an award that used to mean one has seen serious infantry combat for an extended length of time. Recently, an Army captain I was sitting next to on the plane told me that today "all you have to do is get shot at once" to wear the CIB.

Does the "right shoulder patch" indicate that a soldier is a patriot? I guess it depends on the war and the time and the place.

Maybe Dingus knows.


The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 16, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
I am not trolling here. We call her stupid, irresponsible, imperialistic, etc, but the truth is we all love America.

Love? I'll say "like & appreciate".
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jan 17, 2013 - 04:18am PT
If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.


Hardly, of course this excludes all women.

and since the United States hasn't fought an enemy that was actually any real threat to our freedom for a long time, I don't much believe that volunteering to fight for oil or strategic power conveys much love for country. Some people just want to fight or don't have a better means of employment. (some may be patriots)

I think somebody like Daniel Ellsberg or even Aron Swartz qualify more as patriots. Those who woud risk their welfare fighting the corruption of the system so that our government doesn't become the enemy of the country are heros

Peace

karl
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:02am PT
i apologize, brennan. i didn't realize you were looking at america through canadian-colored glasses.

jan, we've tangled on this before. i think your "reasoning" proves my very point.

the military shouldn't be a free-for-all for foreigners to get on the inside track in america. likewise, no citizen should be exempt from military service. no one. many european countries operate this way.

i'm raising this issue because we see the other foot falling right here. if you don't serve, you're not a "patriot". the next step is: you have no right to criticize. but i guess guys from nigeria and kids from tijuana high school do. and i guarantee you, they never will.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:16am PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:46am PT
Look I understand yall want your particular heros to be thought of patriots. Well you just can't have everything, sorry.

Patriots fight. There are many ways to fight. Lemme ask yall... are the drone pilots at Beal AFB who remote control target and kill carloads and houses full of people a half a world away.... patriots?

General's clerk who had a bookcase fall on him, 2000 miles from the nearest conflict... patriot?

Public-fund teat sucking congressperson who never risked so much as a hangnail, much less her life and liberty, for her country... but she helped pass a giant weapons platform bill... patriot?

How about a president who once wrote that he loathed the military but saw fit to start a couple of wars himself (without any personal risk whatsoever).... patriot?

How about all the silly chicken littles who ran around after 911 passing f*#ktard laws and posting guards at wilderness dams and sh#t... patriots?

How about that weather officer? I dunno, was he in combat, in harms way? Did he risk everything, for his country?

Yes, thinking back on minutepersons and such.... say, was Betsy Ross a patriot by virtue of her sewing?

Was Patrick Henry a patriot by virtue of his big mouth? Did HE fight? Did He actually risk everything or did he merely cajole others to do the fighting? Was he a Rush Limbaugh of his day? (I dunno, actually, that's why I'm asking)

I'm sick of some fat f*#k never served sonofabitch declaring himself 'patriot' because he tears up whenever he hears the national anthem, votes a certain way (whatever way, this is cross aisle), maybe has a closet full of assault rifles, and likes to talk tough, but never put in a day of service for his country (other than self-serve that is), never risked his life for his fellow citizens? Charlatans!

Our country has been at war? No. It has NOT. Our military has been at war, most everyone else has been at the grocery and Starbucks and TOTALLY IGNORING the day to day goings on of that war. Those people back home, ignoring their 'professional army' - ARE NOT PATRIOTS. If that includes you... TOUGH SH#T. I hope you take the words seriously. If you are insulted by them... GOOD.

DMT

Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 06:50am PT
Now that we've settled who is a patriot, let's talk about who is a "hero" ...
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:32am PT
By DMT's very narrow definition of a patriot, Betsy Ross is a mere seamstress yet Timothy McVeigh qualifies.
Today is that neverserved's birthday, Ben Franklin.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:40am PT
Patriot....liberal....socialist, the right wing knows that a lot of the American electorate only has the intellectual capacity to deal with slogans and sound bites. Over time they have cleverly either co opted (patriotism) or denigrated (liberal) terms to help foist their agenda on an un sophisticted public.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:41am PT
Patriots can become traitors of course, witness Benedict Arnold, the most famous traitor of them all.

But Benedict Arnold WAS a patriot. Yes.

DMT
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:43am PT
I love China!

China has been very, very good to me.

I save 40% of my salary, with a decent job. I get respect here.

And I have a good-looking girlfriend who's rich and loves to spoil me!

F*#k America. Who needs it.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:45am PT
Is Tom Brady a Patriot?
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:45am PT
But Benedict Arnold WAS a patriot. Yes.

Now I'm really confused.


How about James Madison?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 07:47am PT
Ghost nailed it....no controversy in calling Tom Brady a patriot.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:06am PT

Early this morning driving into Denver to pick my Son up I was right behind a "Sh!t wagon" carrying a LOAD...

Printed VERY clearly on the back of the "Honey Wagon" was written:


"WARNING!!! This vehicle carrying POLITICAL MATERIAL"...



It got me busting up pretty GUD...




A great example of a PATRIOTIC and AMERICAN company...



moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 08:09am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#284677
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 08:12am PT
I want to be a patriot!

Who should I kill?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:13am PT





Goes great with: patriot... christian... hipster... literally... infer... 5.10.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:15am PT
I want to be a patriot!

Who should I kill?


No killing required in the 21st century.

Just yell at the television, and yer good.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:17am PT
Randisi,, GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.. And since youve no need for america,, that includes this site.. Buh-bye.. Let the chinese climbing forums have your presence.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 08:23am PT
Just yell at the television, and yer good.

I do it all the time. I am a Patriot! Can't wait to tell my wife.

Honey, I am not whining, I am being patriotic!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:32am PT
Randisi,, GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.. And since youve no need for america,, that includes this site.. Buh-bye.. Let the chinese climbing forums have your presence.

Bwahahahahaah he trolled the sh#t out of you!

DMT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:37am PT
And I have a good-looking girlfriend who's rich and loves to spoil me!

Some guys have all the luck.






LIKE ME!!!!
Credit: survival
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:43am PT
Since we've now established that we'll never establish just what "Patriot" means, we can move on to the next burning question: Has Ron Anderson ever been outside the United States of America?

His latest outburst seems to imply a fairly limited understanding of the world...

Randisi,, GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.. And since youve no need for america,, that includes this site.. Buh-bye.. Let the chinese climbing forums have your presence.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:47am PT
I wish I'd never left the friendly confines. Now I've a sh!tload of expensive habits.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:51am PT
I wish I'd never left the friendly confines. Now I've a sh!tload of expensive habits.

But since you've also acquired a rich girlfriend to pay for them, everything's cool, right?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:51am PT
Has Ron Anderson ever been outside the United States of America?

hahaha!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:52am PT



"Patriot:

A patriot is someone who feels a strong support for his or her country"
...




Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:56am PT
just showing you what a patriot would say to someone who says f*ck America.;^)

And as far as where ive been that is for me to know..Frankly i didnt know yosemite existed until i got to this forum.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:01am PT
Real patriots do not say "f*ck America!"

Real patriots say "f*ck 47% of Americans!"
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:02am PT
sounds like REAL libs to me^^^^^
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:05am PT
Ask not what good you can do for your country.

Ask, what GOOD is your country!

DMT
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:10am PT
Jan 17, 2013 - 08:32am PT

Randisi,, GO STRAIGHT TO HELL.. And since youve no need for america,, that includes this site.. Buh-bye.. Let the chinese climbing forums have your presence.

Bwahahahahaah he trolled the sh#t out of you!


Not trolling. It's true.

China in the year and a half I've been here has been way better to me than the US was for the last 20 years.

Sorry if you can't handle the truth. China is the new land of opportunity.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:11am PT


I AM a "Patriot"...

and I am VERY disappointed with a LOT of what is going on in this GREAT country of OURS...


With Obama in office...

there IS hope for SOME change...



;-)


EDITED:

Sure do HOPE some DEM (Hillary would probably be a pretty good choice) becomes POTUS after Obama is out...

Otherwise we're again BIG TIME fuked!!!...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Ok. Doesn't bother me anyway bro. I wish you nothing but the best. And here's to rich girlfriends! But dude? You're not Berkeley Enough.

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:16am PT
China - The New Frontier...





of air pollution... ;-)
Credit: Los Angeles Times
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:17am PT
I'm in Dalian, not Beijing.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:18am PT
By the way, for you gun nuts, I've never felt threatened walking in this city of six million.

Not even once, in any neighborhood, at any time of day.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:20am PT
Randisi, just having you on, mate. But, for the record, would you retire there?
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:21am PT
I may very well. We'll have to see. Not there yet. I'm turning 50 in a few weeks.
WBraun

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:21am PT
Stupid Americans think their country is the only country on the planet that's any good ......
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:24am PT
What do the smart Americans think?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:26am PT
Was in Guangdong for ten days in 2001 working on product development at a footwear factory. Never saw a single living thing besides humans- not even cats, dogs or birds....way depressing.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:27am PT
Plenty of cats and dogs around here. Too many in fact.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:28am PT
Survival, is that dune just of of HWy 50 in Nevada?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:29am PT
Stupid Americans think their country is the only country on the planet that's any good ......

True, but then stupid people in a lot of countries think their country is the only country on the planet that's any good. Americans don't have a monopoly on stupid, despite the evidence to the contrary often visible on this forum.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 09:29am PT
Fuk, what do I know about America?

I live in the Bay Area, CA.

Can I change my plea? I love California! (Hey Roxjoke can you her me?)
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:30am PT
Americans don't have a monopoly on stupid

Give us a few years. I think Google is litigating against Apple and Samsung on a patent. Before long, "iDumb"...yes, yes you are.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:31am PT
Like anywhere, China is crowded if you go where the crowds go when the crowds go there.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Randisi, those cats and dogs must be frightened. The chinese have a saying- they will eat anything with four legs except the table, and anything on two legs except grandmom.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:33am PT
Just for fun, a counterpoint...

Was in the Alps above Interlaken for a week in summer 2003 for rehab (for lack of a better word). Never saw a single human being, only the most intense presentation of flora and fauna that I had ever seen... way enspiriting.

EDIT

Better: ...for "spirit-building." (cf: muscle-building)
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:34am PT
I should also point out that I was forced to go to China from economic pressures.

I sure as hell didn't want to come here!

Best decision I ever made, and despite myself.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:35am PT
Jim, grandmom is on three legs! :P
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:37am PT
But seriously, the retired women feed the stray cats.

Most of the dogs are pets.

China has changed a lot in the last ten years, Jim.

I'm amazed their culture has absorbed the change as equanimously as it has.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:41am PT
I love California! (Hey Roxjoke can you her me?)


Roxjoke? Phukkin' drool catches on to America damn quick! Classic.


mtropy, yes indeed. It's freekin' huge. Look at the daughter person far away in the pic. It looks like photoshop but it's not!


Randisi, China rocks dude, I can't wait to go back.
The part of the wall I went to was 100% empty.


Credit: survival







Credit: survival









Credit: survival
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Just send me a PM, Bruce.

There's some good bouldering in Qingdao just south of here.

Not to mention some good beer. Much better than the export variety.

But you don't drink anymore, if I recall?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Yep....when I climbed in Schezwan in 1980 everyone was on bikes, not a passenger vehicle in sight and just a few trucks.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:47am PT
Yep....when I climbed in Schezwan in 1980 everyone was on bikes, not a passenger vehicle in sight and just a few trucks.


This does not sound like a down side. Unless you're trying to get somewhere far away......HA!!!

Randisi, I'm getting a new set of passports for the family as we speak.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:50am PT
Yes, the increase in personal vehicle use sucks.

But that's a problem in most cities of the world, isn't it.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:52am PT
when I climbed in Schezwan in 1980


Jim, the current accepted spelling is Sichuan.

Heh.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:55am PT
Things do change.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 17, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Bouldering in Qingdao (Tsing Dao):

Credit: Randisi
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:27am PT
On one hand, patriotism is a good thing, mainly because IT'S ROOTED IN YOUR FAMILY, the most important aspect of culture in virtually any land.

If you can't support your family, even though you disagree with "their" attitude in general, try to ignore that as much as possible and concentrate on the relationship you have with EACH ONE on an individual basis. It's practice for the world outside, and it's something many kids don't get to learn because of faulty or non-existent parenting, IMO.

On the other hand, some symbolism is involved here, because the nation as a whole is NOT A FAMILY. It's a massive tribal conflagration, where we try to get along, but PATRIOTISM makes us blind to the needs of others. It's a manufacured word the gov'ts need. I have little use for it, myself.

By jingo.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:37am PT
I LOVE AMERICA AND OUR FEDERAL ARMY WHENEVER WE ARE KILLING PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES!!!!

BUT FOR EVERYTHING ELSE I BELIEVE IN STATES RIGHTS!!!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:46am PT
Yep...and an itzy bitzy teeny weenie federal government please, except, of course, when a natural disaster hits and we need MASSIVE federal aid.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Obama is a traitor! He is pulling the troops from our Holy Wars!!! How are we going to teach those Muslims how to love America???
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:52am PT
This is Boomer Patriotism:

STARBUCKS NEEDS YOU!


DMT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:53am PT
Yeah...and remember the Crusades helped to civilize Europe. Seems there was some confusion about who the barbarians were....still is.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:58am PT
Don't confuse the issue, Jim. The Crusades also brought us the Knights Templar
and the start of the modern banking system. And we all know what a boon
that has been, right?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:05am PT
The Knights Templar seem to have been a great template (no pun intended) for some some notable current organizations like the NRA


And
I'll have you know

I got $.02 on my checking account last statement.
John M

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:16am PT

I'm sick of some fat f*#k never served sonofabitch declaring himself 'patriot' because he tears up whenever he hears the national anthem, votes a certain way (whatever way, this is cross aisle), maybe has a closet full of assault rifles, and likes to talk tough, but never put in a day of service for his country (other than self-serve that is), never risked his life for his fellow citizens? Charlatans!

Me too.. but thats still no reason to oversimplify a complex word.

Look I understand yall want your particular heros to be thought of patriots. Well you just can't have everything, sorry.

You understand nothing, but you can certainly pretend that you do.

What sets me off about you and set me off on this subject is how you make pronouncements about what the rest of us believe. I don't like that kind of conversaiton and thats why I went on the prod. I went on the prod and when Terri asked you a simple question, you belittled her. So maybe Norton is right. You are just a simple minded troll.

Now you can say in your imperious tone.. "I told you so" since I "won't let it go".

Meh.. thought you were bigger then this. Your definition is the cowards way out. You don't want to have to stand in judgment of someone so you come up with a simple definition so that you don't have to, then you declare your definition to be the brave one. Too funny..

Good luck with that Dingus.. I appreciate a lot of what you do, but not when you get on your imperial throne.



John M

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:20am PT
One last thought.

Your proclamation is no different then the Christians who say you just have to declare Jesus as your lord and savior and you are saved. They don't change a thing about their behavior or attitude, but just declare themselves saved. Its the easy way out and it doesn't cut it.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:20am PT
What sets me off about you

Someone is always setting you off about something.

Maybe... just maybe... its YOU setting you off.

Who's that man in the mirror?

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:24am PT
So maybe Norton is right. You are just a simple minded troll.

no, what I said was the Dingus IS trolling, because he is NOT as stupid as he playfully comes across as

my god man, he is a high school graduate!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:30am PT


Dingus should probably consider joining the "Big Headed Fuker" club...

That is if he can fit through the door to the signup sheet...

;-)

John M

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Yes Dingus.. that explains why you insulted Terri when she did nothing to you.

You can look in that same mirror dude. I have looked in the mirror. I know my sh#t stinks.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:41am PT
All this bickering with zero chance for clarity or resolution. A well meaning thread has gone down the drain. You must all be Stupid Americans and likely are commie terrorist bast*@!s. Personally, I prefer the expression Stupid Humans. I regularly come across stupid people from a variety of countries. My inner Braun let's me make this determination on a case by case basis.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:43am PT



"You can look in that same mirror dude"...

It's too small for the size of his head...

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:46am PT
My work is done here.

DMT

ps. Who's terri and why is he insulted?

pps.
I know my sh#t stinks.
Yes I'm sure it does. Enjoy.
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:50am PT
Wow..you really are just too cool..
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:50am PT
My work is done here.

Don't go away. This has been a really fun thread, and without you it will die.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:52am PT
"My work is done here."...


WORK???...

Right!!!...

That's what it was...





Hell, your REAL work is carrying that fuking big head around on your pencil neck...

LOL!!!...



Now go fuking SIGN UP dude!!!...

We NEED more members!!!...

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:56am PT
Mel Gibson ?

Credit: Hollywood Liberals
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Credit: Hollywood Liberals

Does that include the Hollywood Jews?
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Leave if you must DMT, but first you need to admit, you LOVE America, don't you?
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Jim, could you take out Gibson from this thread?

Just can't stand this idiot!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Gibson's a hater

gays and jews

but he saw combat in The Patriot
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:10pm PT

GUD BUDDY to Dingus Milkbreath and a true PATRIOT...

Mel Fukwad is one of the Founding Fathers of the "Big Headed Fuker" club...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#284718
...

moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
I need a BIG infusion of the boob antidote!
John M

climber
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
ps. Who's terri and why is he insulted?

Too funny.. you complain about my reading comprehension. You don't even know who you attack. Just blind attacks. Try rereading my posts. You might learn something.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
What about Patriettes?

Credit: The Larry
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
I love most of America too. Did the Baja for Texas trade go through?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
I loves me some patriots!


Credit: survival
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Larry, you found them! See, DMT there true patriots exist!

Donini, are you saying that Texas is one of the 50 states? My love for America just shrunk...
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Happy 49th birthday, Michelle Obama!


we all know that you secretly hate America, just like your only half white husband


signed:

Honey Boo Boo
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Larry, you found them!

My work is done here.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
PATRIOTS!!!!


Credit: survival
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 17, 2013 - 01:22pm PT


Couldn't figure out why Dingus MilkHead never respondeed to my request...

NOW I get it!!!...
























































photo not found
Missing photo ID#284732
...

Dude's ALREADY a member...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
PATRIOT!!!!






Credit: survival



moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
A hero?

photo not found
Missing photo ID#284739
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 17, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
PATRIOT!!!!




Credit: survival
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jan 17, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Bluering is the quintessential non-patriot.

DMT


Explain why you think that is so?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 18, 2013 - 06:54am PT
patriot = http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/civil-war-hero-robert-smalls-seized-the-opportunity-to-be-free/2012/02/23/gIQAcGBtmR_story.html


dave goodwin

climber
carson city, nv
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:18am PT
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.

And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all the rights unto the leader and gladly so.

How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Cesar."
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:35am PT
I love America but let's improve it geographically.

Trade Texas to Mexico for Baja California.

Allow Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, and West Virginia to secede and and form a Southern Theocracy.....we tried folks but they don't want to join the 21st century. Come to think of it they rejected the 20th too.

Make a grand National Park out of Utah, Wyoming and Idaho. Deport most of the inhabitants of those States to the Southern Theocracy (they'll love it) and keep some of the more enlightened ones to administer the Park.

Annex British Columbia.....sure there will be some whining but it will settle down over time.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:44am PT
Annex British Columbia.....

What about Alberta and the Yukon?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:47am PT
Thanks....you're on to something. The Yukon is a natural treasure and Alberta has a bit of the Rockies and a lot of oil shale. A number of Alberta residents, however, will be required to move to the Southern Theocracy.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:52am PT
What about Alberta and the Yukon?

Nah, leave them be - it's nice to go to a ferrin country once in a while.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 18, 2013 - 07:55am PT
Donini for President! :)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:01am PT
You'll always be stuck with Celine Dion, Jim... Canada's most successful Trojan Horse:





Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:34am PT
JD,, waht the heck are you gonna do with Nevada?


Personally, i think NV should TAKE the east side all the way to lone pine- and give VEGAS to Cali since it is anyway. We will take alpine, mono, inyo counites and cali gets clark..
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 18, 2013 - 08:35am PT
I'll have to talk to Harry Reid first.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2013 - 01:38am PT
still love ya
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 7, 2013 - 02:43am PT
exploited by fellow citizens all the time too. If you ain't served your nation in combat you ain't no patriot.

Late to the game maybe but please define "patriot". Only one who has served? Patriots exist out of warfare. Patriots speak truth to power.

Please define "patriot".
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2013 - 03:37am PT
Please define "patriot".

Who, me?

I am just saying "I love America" that's all.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
May 7, 2013 - 03:58am PT
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Dr Samuel Johnson

Of course he also said...

when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life

But then in 1777, there wasn't much else in England but London.

However, Dr Sam, seven years there and I would never ever live in London again.

Now, where we were, oh yes patriotism.

In 1974, a 17-year-old going on 18, looking to avoid the draft (veterinary school at University of Saskatoon, as I had studied two summer schools as a vet aide and worked for vets), but my family have been Americans since 1640, I couldn't do it.

So a long-haired anti-war teenager approaches the Marine recruiting sergeant in Concord (CA), looking to become a medic. They said that if you volunteer you had a better chance of choosing a specialty, than if you were drafted.

"We don't have medics, we use Navy corpsmen".

Oh, the Navy did not appeal to me. No offense to those that served in the Navy.

Also the comment about devaluing medals. One of my nephews received a Gulf War medal and the only thing he did was sit on a ship in the Gulf. A medal for sitting on a ship out of harm's way? He left the Navy as they were downsizing and he had a 'past' with crack.

Whereas my godson/nephew, who left the Marines a short while ago, two (seven-month) tours of duty in Afghanistan, a point man on patrol in 'regular' firefights...


So, though I believe Dingus is winding us up, is my nephew a patriot? And which nephew? The one sitting on his can in a can, or the one under fire?

Am I a patriot, since I never served?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Dr Samuel Johnson
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 10, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Just cause a person served or didn't serve doesn't make you a patriot or a USA lover. Plenty of instances of immigrants from all kinds of places seem to love it more than a lot of native born folks. I knew a guy that went in to avoid jail (Train Robbery was the charge, but they were jacking stereos out of new cars being transported on trains back before they had them locked up well). The guys name was...wait for it, ....



....Jesse...heheh (AKA Jesse who was an actual relative of the outlaw Jesse James).


Preempting Piton Ron: Me below with incorrect fingering. (haha, I said it first!) It was only recently I learned that you shouldn't keep yer finger wrapped on the trigger all the time. I always figured you'd want it ready to spray and pray. Y else load all dem bullets in there.



People giving kids guns...sheese.....
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 10, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
LIKE:-)

mooser

Trad climber
seattle
May 10, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
I like Al Franken's quip: "I love America, but not like a 6 year old loves his mother."
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