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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 6, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
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I have always wondered at the ramifications of flipping a cop the bird?
The Middle Finger and the Law.
Man Arrested for Flipping Off Cop Wins Day in Court
A federal appeals court is reinstating a civil rights lawsuit brought by a New York man arrested for disorderly conduct after flipping off a police officer in traffic.
There’s no law against directing to police what might be the world’s oldest insulting gesture. Flipping the bird, or sticking out the middle finger, dates to ancient Greece and was adopted by the Romans as digitus impudicus – the impudent finger.
But it’s not advised, as it may lead to a confrontation. And that’s exactly what happened in upstate New York.
After the police stop in 2006, words were exchanged between the local police officer and middle-finger-saluter John Swartz, a 62-year-old Vietnam veteran. He flipped the bird at officer Richard Insogna who was employing a radar device to ticket speeders — and Insogna stopped the vehicle.
In reinstating the lawsuit, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals didn’t buy Insogna’s explanation for the traffic stop. Insogna testified in a deposition that he stopped the vehicle Swartz was traveling in because the raised middle finger suggested Swartz “was trying to get my attention for some reason” and that he “was concerned for the female driver.”
A federal judge sided with police and tossed the lawsuit. But the New York-based appeals court on Thursday reinstated the case, which was also brought by the driver, Swartz’s wife, Judy Mayton-Swartz.
According to the three-judge panel: (.pdf)
Perhaps there is a police officer somewhere who would interpret an automobile passenger’s giving him the finger as a signal of distress, creating a suspicion that something occurring in the automobile warranted investigation. And perhaps that interpretation is what prompted Insogna to act, as he claims. But the nearly universal recognition that this gesture is an insult deprives such an interpretation of reasonableness. This ancient gesture of insult is not the basis for a reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation or impending criminal activity. Surely no passenger planning some wrongful conduct toward another occupant of an automobile would call attention to himself by giving the finger to a police officer.
No trial date has been set in the unlawful-arrest case. The disorderly conduct charges were later dropped after Swartz’s arrest.
In its Thursday opinion, the appeals court cited American University legal scholar Ira Robbins, who has written a definitive paper on flipping the bird: “Digitus Impudicus: The Middle Finger and the Law.” http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/03/middlefinger.pdf
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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I almost got the crap beat out of me as a twelve year old kid for flipping off a rude Italian skier on a glacier in France.
The guy was a dick and deserved it. Luckily my awesome Grandpa (RIP) intervened and told the fag bag loser to take his bitching and shove it, all in passable Italian. Good times.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Yeah u gotta watch where u point that thing. Pretty awesome story lol.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dick Long has turned the Fickle Finger of Fate into his own personal credo! LOL
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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HEY GUIDO!!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Pluck yew dude...! RJ
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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I flipped a cop off on 395. He pulled me over, I explained I thought he was another one of those as#@&%es from LA riding my ass. He laughed, told me to keep my finger to myself and my loved ones, and sent me on my way.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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There's flipping a cop off and then there's ...
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My money is on her walking.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Really depends on the face.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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A Very Dry Fist, too.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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in 1971 or 1972 (?) (I think it was the year that Robbins' attempted a solo FA on El Capitan from which he retreated) I was driving our merry band to Yosemite, driving west on "The 10" coming out of Claremont CA. Somewhere in Covina my friend Mike, riding shot gun, flips off a Covina cop, who promptly pulls up behind us punks, trails us a bit and then lights us up...
"what the ?"
"Oh, Mike flipped off the cop" says friend 2 in the back seat... so we pull over onto the right shoulder. The cop calls in backup, and then takes us to task.
"why did you pull me over?" I ask, again and again... fully knowing my rights (what a wiseazz at such a tender year)... eventually he comes up with a catchall: "you were weaving" bullsh#t...
the other cop arrives, asks sotto voce "what's going on" and the first cop says "I want to scare them" but, of course, this was overheard by us all...
eventually he lets us go with a warning...
...we were seniors in high school, on spring break, and of course we knew everything and thought ourselves fully adult.
Cost us a good hour or so of travel time... but we had so much time back then we didn't understand its value...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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HEY GUIDO!!!
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