help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 821 - 840 of total 1105 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jan 13, 2013 - 12:59am PT
My only rush to judgment perhaps concerned your intelligence Slayton. By saying that you were not intelligent I was wrong. Your understanding of the difference between triage and more complex decisions was actually elegant...very true..Hadn't understood you meant that...
I ask you to read the entire essay I wrote though - it goes on to discuss what occurs when I am not sure or I am sometimes never sure.

But you make good points that I will consider - although there is some snap judgement to gut instinct I often put 100s of hours of thought into my arguments.
Honest to god - we have had many of these arguments on ST - and I don't think I have ever been wrong.
Obviously I am far, far, far from perfect in many ways - but if I start doubting my instincts I got nothing...lol
However I could start much smaller and better communicate it all...
I think though that another one of my issues is that I probably love a fight along with an intellectual argument - i can't fight with patients, or my wife, or my kids...ever But I love a battle - and if I can't battle with the rock perhaps i get out of wack...lol

anyway - thanks for communicating..

And thanks John for understanding...
Although I must state - i wasn't drinking at all though and I did communicate with that Tool for a long time before I told him to perform an anatomically impossible act..The unreasonableness was not mine but his..well, right up to the point where i tried to fight 20 tools..


stephenbmx1@yahoo.com montoya

Sport climber
texas
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
lol Riley is such a bitch lol
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
wow seriously dude it was a joke, and how is calling you a nigger pussy the same as calling black people niggers? your black?

This site needs to have a disclaimer somewhere saying if you say anything racist or culturally offensive in anyway ONCE you will be banned...

anybody who gets butthurt over a joke like that online has some others serious issues (boredom for sure) and what i called you doesn't even make sense dude, its from that stupid ludacis 'pussy popping' song, its a joke dude, jeez

and dont start a thread about me dude, go climb or something, get a life!

but than again you hear what you want to hear

Another genuis takes his seat at the Algonquin round table..

Perhaps you are right Tony..
stephenbmx1@yahoo.com montoya

Sport climber
texas
Jan 13, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
???... ok lol
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
I got angry when tradmanclimbs suggested on my (OT) Who has room for a Dog? thread that we cared more about dogs than humans attacked in Peru...

First of all no one is asking for money on my thread. The dog even has all it's vet bills covered. It is homeless and need of a home that will give it a whole lot of patience and love. If it doesn't get off the streets soon it will wind up dead or even worse, at a kill shelter that in his present condition the dog will be on the un-adoptable list so he'll gets fast tracked to Death.

These folks want their stolen stuff replaced, their car repaired, compensation for lost wages, some teeth fixed and flights home... First of all, they saved enough for a fancy off road camper, had it "shipped" and took months off for this trip. If they can do that, they can save up to get this done on their own. So correct me if I am wrong, they took a trip, understood that bad stuff can happen and wham... Bad stuff did happen and they didn't have a backup plan? Seriously... If someone wants to help them great... But they are safe and just want an easier ride so they won't be economically impacted. Fine... Not essential, but if someone want to give them a hand, heck... Let them.


I do not care less for people than dogs... If they were facing death, needed money to bribe someone to get out of trouble. Yeah, I would pitch in. For lost stuff and teeth work... Yeah, you can figure it out, you don't need my money when your own will work. This might slow your spending down for a few years but heck... I had to for my stuff, we all get a negative shake once in a while.

As for the dog, it's not on the same playing field. Not even close so don't compare what is happening on that thread to this.

crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
It's the damn chemtrails that are causing this.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:01pm PT

"I do not care less for people than dogs..."...


There are some pretty sh!tty people out there...

and a lot of cool dogs...

I could go either way, depending...


Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
I've met some horrible crazy dogs and I've met some really horrible crazy people.

Both types need to get off this planet.


As for really great people and dogs, yeah... I'll do tons to keep them around. They are the jewels that make their friends and family wealthy.
coz

Boulder climber
Belmont
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
I care more about my dogs than those Dumb asses in Peru.

I love ya A, don't let the a holes get ya down.

Using the N word is not cool, I doubt the man using the word, would ever do so in the face of an African American.

Anyway, this thread is just weird...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
So correct me if I am wrong, they took a trip, understood that bad stuff can happen and wham... Bad stuff did happen and they didn't have a backup plan? Seriously...

Anastasia, have you forgotten that when "bad stuff" happened to you and people dear to you on a road trip and there were medical expenses, you "gave the go-ahead" for a fundraiser, one that ended up being as controversial as the one for the three in Peru? Do I really need to remind you of that?

If someone had asked snarky questions at the time about why the people in your group didn't have a better "backup plan" I think you would have agreed that it was over-the-top rude. So why you don't think that now, I don't know.

I am surprised you posted that.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Oh sweet Christ Granite.....

AF, Bachar and Steve weren't on a "road trip" They were driving back to Mammoth from a trade show in SLC and got into a horrific one car accident that left Steve dead, Bachar seriously injured and Anastasia has documented her physical and emotional injuries from it.

Are you honestly comparing what happened to Bachar/AF/Steve to what happened to these three bandit camping in a small town in a a third world country during a 9 month road trip and being hostile to locals when questioned to the degree they crashed their rig in a getaway attempt (after pepper spraying said locals) and ended up with some missing teeth, cameras, laptops and great outerwear?

Did Af or Bachar ask for money to replace laptops, cameras, puffy jackets, fix the car, etc? No. It was all monies to help John - one of the most beloved and prominent members of the climbing family - with his extensive recovery.

Not even close bro....
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 13, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
...and it was for John Bachar someone everyone KNOWS here who had a broken neck in more than one vertebral. A life threatening and very scary condition. Not for his car that was totaled, not for the computers, our broken glasses or cell phones, or even our flights home. It was not for taking care of Steve's body or my own medical cost or the loss of income. It was for John life threatening, end of the world scary position.

In fact when they released him from Utah, he was in such a fragile condition that a fall could have paralyzed or ended him right there. Only at the specialist over at Cedar Sinai did we realize just how close we were to a super bad deal.

Yeah, I remember it. I remember it well. No, this does not compare. Not even close...

Plus Bachar and I did not ask for help. We simply appreciated and heck yeah I approved since it was needed and it did help him greatly.

Yeah, you just really pissed me off.


P.S. I am now going to go hug my dog and... Locker has a point. Sometimes dogs are better than some folks.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:00am PT
I think it's really stupid to try to compare accidents, attacks or whatever and try to maximize one while minimizing another. But much of what you suggest about the necessity of the funds raised were discussed here.http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=269833&tn=0&mr=0 and http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=269556&msg=271841#msg271841 So if you are going to start making comparisons you might want to read that first.

I followed those threads at the time, but you didn't see me on those threads begrudging the funds that were raised or how some of them were ultimately used.

Also if you think that they asked for money to replace their puffy jackets, you haven't been paying attention. A friend in the U.S. started the fundraiser without asking them.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Another thing GC about the Wolfroms vs. AF/Bachar/Steve

No one in their party died, no one in their party was left with life threatening injuries that would need constant and vigilant medical attention and rehabilitation.

Just some dental work and stitch repair. Which if they had any sense they'd have used the $25K to get back to the US to get worked on. Instead, they're staying in Cuzco so they can get their rig back and continue their trip and poor Jed had an alleged 6 root canals before they could replace 4 teeth according to his wife. What The Fu...!!!! It's on their posts. Who is willing to undergo 6 root canals in a medium sized city in a third world country to replace 4 teeth then sit around and wait for said teeth?

That makes NO SENSE. They could be home by now under the care of Jackson dentists and local docs for their alleged stitch removals (again, we've yet to see a single picture of any of the injuries).

Don't even think about comparing AF's situation and the plight of the Palcca three. Not even close in any sense.

And sorry GC, Jenny posted her list and gave permission for it to go out on the worldwide web to friends on their website. And the Wolfroms have been taking solicitations for their entire journey and are thanking everyone for continuing to giving more $$ to them during this trying time for them. They solicited money for what happened to them in their nightmare in Peru post, I can go back and dig it up for you if you don't remember it.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:20am PT
You are mischaracterizing both what happened in the John Bachar fundraiser and also the Wolfrom fundraiser. Please read the threads, so you don't repeat misrepresentations that were made in the course of the John Bachar fundraiser (not by John but by people supporting the fundraiser). Some people felt defrauded afterwards, and I understand why.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:26am PT
Don't argue with him Fluoride... I think what needed to be said has been written. We now can simply stand by our words and let him spew.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:28am PT
Really? How? Explain it to me in detail GC. Cause there's not even a close correlation between the two incidents.

Was John down in a third world country camped and drinking on private property when locals came and asked him for ID, he refused, was combative, got into a heated argument in a native language he couldn't have understood, then tried to drive his rig away while AF pepper sprayed those trying to stop them? Then as they tried to plow through those stopping them they wrecked their rig as a result and got some cuts and dental problems? Then begged for money online to the tune of receiving $25K to help him replace material belongings, the first one being buying a new laptop after said incident? And continue on his trip throughout SA?

No....that does not sound in any way like the Bachar crash to me.

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:37am PT
Fluoride you spoke up very well. Those are some awesome points I could not figure out to say myself.

He is just indirectly attacking me because I don't agree with him. Yes, using the Bachar incident to get a rise from us is in bad form. Yet it sadly is working.

Don't feed his need for drama. No matter what we say he is right. No matter how much proof you give him that the world is round, he will insist it is flat. He is that type.



Thank You for speaking so beautifully.

Anastasia

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 12:40am PT
Fluoride, I think that we're being delusional if we don't agree that big mistakes were made in BOTH cases. If you think that in one case all of the victims deserved everything that happened to them in one case but were all completely blameless in the other case, then you need to do some more research or rethink your logic. You can start with the Supertaco threads I linked to.

Also, in each case there three people and only one driver, and I don't think you should assume that a vote was taken and that everyone was in agreement.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 01:14am PT
"Fluoride, I think that we're being delusional if we don't agree that big mistakes were made in BOTH cases."

John fell asleep at the wheel of a car en route home from working a trade show in the US with 2 people close to him. Someone died, he was seriously injured, AFS has said her peace on the incident here.

And then there's the Wolfrom's.....

Same thing? Not even close.

"I don't think you should assume that a vote was taken and that everyone was in agreement."

Good God, do you not have an ounce of common sense? Are you high??? That makes no sense in comparison AT ALL.
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