help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 761 - 780 of total 966 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Jan 31, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
The surfboards on top are a nice touch. Cowabunga kiddies.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 31, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
Yeah, atchafalaya, so you will gladly take their side, but only if they throw a few bucks at you, or there's otherwise a dollar reward waiting for you at the end. So would it be safe to say that, at least when it comes to you, that their biggest mistake is not paying you first?

Edit: Wasn't that you asking about release-dismissal agreements? Since you're a defense lawyer, isn't this something you should have already have heard about?
John M

climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
So help me understand something. Some of you are suggesting that the injuries they received happened during the accident in the ditch. If you look at the photo of the truck, then it does look like two people hit their heads on the windshield.

so answer me this.. If he got his injuries from hitting the windshield, and two of them must have hit the windshield, at least according to you if thats how the damage to the windshield occurred.

Then why do neither of the women have head injuries similar to the man?


photo not found
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Missing photo ID#287385

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Just curious what your explanation is for his injuries and how that relates to what happened to the truck windshield and the womens lack of similar injuries.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:01am PT
I suspect that if the windshield had been cracked like that by their heads hitting it, they would have been injured worse than they are and would have at least gotten concussions. Also, I suspect that the upper forehead would impact the windshield, and that this wouldn't affect the lower face or teeth much. But I don't know this for sure.

Riley, what injuries would be typical for someone smashing a windshield with his head?
Ryan Tetz

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Feb 2, 2013 - 07:31am PT
You all need to watch the video to see the additonal photos that aren't on this thread:

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/2013/01/25/16695902-tourists-scary-tale-bloodied-by-rocks-robbed-in-peru?lite
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 2, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Clueless gringos. The Caretas article says all this happened right on the main route to Machu Pichu, and they are concerned the incident will scare away tourists. It sounds like Nepal. Their main industry is tourism. Even the Maoists trying to overthrown the Nepal govt know better than to mess with the tourists. That would make everyone hate them.

This is probably the first time in history that gringos have driven all the way down there and camped on their land. This kind of gorilla camping is really a gringo phenomenon (and a western one at that) and would normally be considered strange or suspicious to be camping outside instead of staying in hotels. The Caretas article decribes the town as a high crime area and says the people had been repeatedly robbed of their cattle in recent times. It seems the whole town was already mobilized to defend itself against the cattle thieves, in a kind of neighborhood watch, when these dumb gringos who can't speak spanish veered off the main tourist highway thinking they could just pull over and camp.

Hopefully they've learned something about what the world is really like, rather than just begging money off strangers to continue their wild and crazy adventures in the third world.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2013 - 10:22am PT
The locals assume the gringos are cattle-rustlers, but the gringos are clueless?
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Feb 2, 2013 - 10:37am PT
I hope those of you who think you've got the whole scene figured out from your lofty arm chairs are never in the position of these three folks. What a truly crappy feeling it must be to be tried and judged in such a way.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 2, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
I'm not saying the locals didn't attack. I'm saying I don't see the rock barricades the locals built... or any rocks laying around with which they could have built said barricades.

I'm also saying, if they did attack, I don't think they were necessarily out of line. Some cocky foreigners roll up and set up camp on your land, whatchu gonna do? If they refuse to show ID, whatchu gonna do? If they are doing drugs (alcohol), whatchu gonna do?

If you are visiting a foreign area, be respectful and bend over backwards, sideways, or whatever ways the locals want you to bend. If you aren't willing to accommodate the locals wishes, stay the fuk home. Them's simple country folk. They don't give a fuk about your vacation... they care about their daily lives... the lives you are interrupting... their families... what little property they have.

Oh, and if you piss them off and they retaliate, don't ask others to replace your iPhun.
John M

climber
Feb 2, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Sorry this is so long. Its just some of my thoughts.

The pics were taken the next day. There are rocks in the ditch which you can see in some of the pics.

This was in my opinion a failure on both sides. You say that they should bend over backwards. They say they asked two people if they could camp there. I believe that the people they asked did say yes, but only because they didn't really understand them. There appears to have been a communication barrier.

They did refuse to show their passports. They could have had copies of other Id to try and use if they were worried about their id being taken. So that is one mistake. This was a high crime area.. They didn't seem to be aware of that. Another mistake.

They did ask to leave. They drove the wrong way. Another mistake. But in their defense they did ask to leave.

I believe that women and children were involved in beating them. I believe that they were beat. Villages can be very unfriendly places very quickly. If they aren't afraid of you, then you can be welcomed openly, but if they are afraid then they can join in very fast to fight. Its the nature of things and I am not saying it is wrong. It is just the way it is.

Some here seem to think these people deserved to get the sh#t beat out of them. As though they were being disrespectful. I don't see that. I just seem some mistakes and some misunderstandings. I'm not interested in persecuting the villages. But I'm also not interested in persecuting these people, which some people here seem to be wanting.

I didn't see their website as some terrible begging thing. I see it as I see Fish's buy him a beer thing. Its just something people do now and people like to have an easy way to be nice. If I bought something from Fish and he went out of his way to get it to me on time when I was in a push, I would want an easy way to say thank you. To me that is no different then if you read their blog and enjoy it, and want to support their journey by buying them a pizza, then why not.

The asking for money was a different and separate issue and was started by a friend. Much like people here start funds when their friends are sick. Its just what people do. But some people seem to be so terribly offended by this. I don't see why. They didn't have to contribute if they didn't want to. It was a request. Nothing more. If people want to give, then that is their business. I can see where some people are concerned because if this was a scam, then that might stop some people from giving in the future. So if it was a scam, then that should be determined. But from what I can see, it wasn't a scam. It was just a series of mistakes. On both sides. Which happens.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 2, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
There appears to have been a communication barrier.

No sh#t. And who is to blame for that?

I don't see how a rural village defending their people and property from perceived delinquents who refuse to show ID is a fault.

I don't see nearly enough rocks anywhere around there to build any kind of barricade... especially one that truck couldn't get over.

If you run into trouble traveling, it is your fault. If you aren't willing/able to deal with sh#t, stay home. If your adventure doesn't turn out the way you planned, ain't nobody to blame buy yourself.
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Feb 4, 2013 - 04:03am PT
Jenny Wolfrom has returned and there's an update to the story.

Jacksonite recounts assault by Peruvians
Wolfrom tells of her nightmarish experience in a small South American village:
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=9499
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 4, 2013 - 05:29am PT
Whatever the truth of this story, the people who will suffer in the long run are the Peruvians and their tourist economy. Not a smart move on their part.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2013 - 08:13am PT
The Peruvian tourist board can hire Mechrist and the rest of the 'toughen the fuk up' crowd to help with the their PR campaign.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 4, 2013 - 09:19am PT
From what I can tell the only 'Climbing' they did was with Paul Lyin' Ryan.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Philo, from the pictures on their blog, they are getting in more climbing then you are these days.
John M

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
they didnt ask anything -

You presume too much Riley. Here in california I have worked with migrant workers and asked them questions and gotten a yes, when in fact they didn't understand a word that I said and had to ask one of their friends who did speak english. I learned quickly that just because they said yes didn't mean that they understood you.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say Riley. I'm just not certain that you can be so certain in this case.

But whatever. I don't really have a dog in this race. Its just interesting to me. It would be cool to go down there and talk to the villagers over a beer. One newspaper down there quoted the village mayor as eluding to that they got a beating for being robbers. Are you saying the newspaper lied?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Interesting. The story has changed a bit...

While they were passing around the beers, two men in their 30s pulled up on motorbikes. They talked about the village, telling the travelers quirky facts about the area and its history.

“They seemed excited,” Wolfrom said.

After chatting with the two men, the group started to see small lights descending a nearby hillside. About 25 villagers were headed toward the group with flashlights.

I thought they asked these guys if it was ok and then after they said yes, the guys started calling everyone on their cell phones and yelling and screaming?? Weird....
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
From the linked article upthread:

Though Jed and Meghan made it safely out of Peru, they still are traveling in South America and have had limited Internet access.

Knott so traumatized to prevent them from continuing their "adventure". I'm sure they very much appreciate your generous donations!

Some villagers smelled of alcohol, Wolfrom said.

This is almost certainly bullshít. Aside from their supposedly only purchasing 2 beers for a birthday celebration for 3 people, assuming they did indeed split those 2 beers equally (8 oz each), that's enough to give a woman of average build a nice buzz, and would put her BAC at approx. .015 to .020.

When you've been drinking you can't detect the smell of alcohol on others; anyone who consumes alcohol knows this.
John M

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Stories often change after a stressful event. The memory is a strange thing. A friend of mine works with rape victims. She describes how different the story becomes over time. It doesn't always mean the person was lying.
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