help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 03:28am PT
Really? How? Explain it to me in detail GC. Cause there's not even a close correlation between the two incidents.

Was John down in a third world country camped and drinking on private property when locals came and asked him for ID, he refused, was combative, got into a heated argument in a native language he couldn't have understood, then tried to drive his rig away while AF pepper sprayed those trying to stop them? Then as they tried to plow through those stopping them they wrecked their rig as a result and got some cuts and dental problems? Then begged for money online to the tune of receiving $25K to help him replace material belongings, the first one being buying a new laptop after said incident? And continue on his trip throughout SA?

No....that does not sound in any way like the Bachar crash to me.

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 14, 2013 - 03:37am PT
Fluoride you spoke up very well. Those are some awesome points I could not figure out to say myself.

He is just indirectly attacking me because I don't agree with him. Yes, using the Bachar incident to get a rise from us is in bad form. Yet it sadly is working.

Don't feed his need for drama. No matter what we say he is right. No matter how much proof you give him that the world is round, he will insist it is flat. He is that type.



Thank You for speaking so beautifully.

Anastasia

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 03:40am PT
Fluoride, I think that we're being delusional if we don't agree that big mistakes were made in BOTH cases. If you think that in one case all of the victims deserved everything that happened to them in one case but were all completely blameless in the other case, then you need to do some more research or rethink your logic. You can start with the Supertaco threads I linked to.

Also, in each case there three people and only one driver, and I don't think you should assume that a vote was taken and that everyone was in agreement.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 04:14am PT
"Fluoride, I think that we're being delusional if we don't agree that big mistakes were made in BOTH cases."

John fell asleep at the wheel of a car en route home from working a trade show in the US with 2 people close to him. Someone died, he was seriously injured, AFS has said her peace on the incident here.

And then there's the Wolfrom's.....

Same thing? Not even close.

"I don't think you should assume that a vote was taken and that everyone was in agreement."

Good God, do you not have an ounce of common sense? Are you high??? That makes no sense in comparison AT ALL.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 14, 2013 - 04:44am PT
It never ceases to amaze me the truely thoughtless things people will say. Wasting time on them is futile. Take a breath, step back, and allow them to lynch themselves.

I care more about my dogs than those Dumb asses in Peru.

Same here about my cats!

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
they wrecked their rig as a result and got some cuts and dental problems

You left out the part where they were chased down, stoned, kidnapped, beat and whipped and threatened with death. Not just the driver, but also the two women who happened to be in the truck?

Where did you work as a reporter again? Fox News? You didn't think that was important?

Didn't your own run-in with authorities end with you in injured and in a drunk tank? Didn't the authorities state that you were intoxicated and uncooperative, and whatever injuries you suffered you caused yourself? I would have thought you would be more understanding, or at least a little less judgmental.

one of my best friends

That's what this is about isn't it? We won't stand for criticism of ourselves, our good friends or our personal heroes, especially if they are climbers. If they are world-class athletes, that's even better. Any mistakes should be overlooked and forgiven. Because they're awesome!

But people we don't know who aren't climbers, or who we ignorantly dismiss as not being climbers--if they make mistakes or we think we made mistakes, they suck, and while we're at it we'll just call them liars, without needing any real evidence. We'll just fabricate and twist the facts in the worst possible light. The driver--he sucks! His wife and sister? They're in the same car with him so they suck also. The people who believe them and supported them--they all suck! They need help? LOL - should have had a back up plan! While we're at it, let's post up that they suck so bad that helping a dog should be a higher priority then helping them. Because they suck.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
GC treads harshly but there are a few grains of truth to his blasphemy, and I for one am guilty.

Like I said somewhere back at the start of this thread, there are lessons to be learned, a teachable moment.
John M

climber
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
The difference is.. they might actually suck. We know John and Anastasia don't suck. We don't know if these people do.

It appears to me that both made mistakes. Lots of us have driven when exhausted. Thankfully few of us have paid as heavy a price. I would wager that fewer of us would have made the same mistakes these folks appear to have. I say appear to because I also am not willing to immediately jump to their crucifixion.

I'm also believe that if that list that was made for the police of their stolen items and their value had not been posted on the
world wide web, then more people would be more forgiving of these peoples mistakes.

Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes. I know this much. I am much more likely to pull over now and get a few hours shuteye when driving and I get tired. But then I am also older.. :-)

Edit:

GC treads harshly but there are a few grains of truth to his blasphemy, and I for one am guilty.

Agreed.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
I've made lots of bad mistakes myself, I've just been lucky that they have not had serious consequences.

I am much better about driving when sleep deprived because of what happened to John and several others who posted about it. Years ago, that could have been me.

If I am in a similar situation to what happened in Peru and and it has a better ending, it will be because I learned from their experience.
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
This tread is dead.
TY
John M

climber
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
I traveled to an area and did the best I could to positively interact with the locals. Being as respectful as I could and attempting to mind all of their local customs.

I still got a beat down.

My mistake?

I showed up.


what culture?

Southern california surf.

:-)
Ian Westmoreland

climber
Jackson
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/gallery_browse.php?dir=1&lim=0
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 14, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
GC, your case would be laugh at in any court or jury of peers.

You're just trying to stir the pot, and using peoples' close friends and people who have suffered direct experience with the tragedy and said events.

Joining in your debate would lower the persons involved to the same level of stupidity.

I'm sure you're a smart man, or women, I have no idea... but your rant is borderline vindictive and ur clearly bored, when many times your perspective is spot on and can be quite clever and entertaining.

No, I am serious. If you think what I'm saying is stupid, maybe you can explain that to me.

I think that we judge other people's actions, we should give strangers the same consideration we give to close friends and family. If you'd give a close friend of your's a "free pass" for something, then don't be so judgmental when a stranger does the same thing.

As it is, two of the people most vocally calling out the Wolfroms for making mistakes in their confrontations with the villagers/authorities each have a history that includes a violent confrontation with uniformed police after they mishandled their confrontation with authorities. To them I have to say, if you can't properly handle confrontation with a uniformed cop in the U.S., maybe you wouldn't handle a confrontation with shadowy non-uniformed "authorities" or a large angry mob any better then the Wolfroms did.

I think that many of the posts in this thread are not just borderline vindictive, they are over-the-top vindictive, and I'm calling bullshit on that.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
I would like to reiterate that I have absolutely no connection to the Wolframs, lime-green nano puffs, or the cookie monster.

Yes, this is my first post, and it is looking that it may hit 1000. As my grandfather used to say: even a broken clock is right twice a day.
WBraun

climber
Jan 14, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
IF .....

Their story is completely true.

As >>> (No one here seems to know any absolute truth to this beyond any shadow of doubt)

Why would they even want to help the very same people who had just tried to kill them?

:-)

And yes this thread is stupid, and I'm stupid for even posting in it .......
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 14, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
How can you be stupid? Are you even American?






And one thing seems glaringly obvious in this whole conversation;

Coz needs to do a TR about this Mexico City strip club, no "ifs", "ands", or "butts".











edit: nice post-reposting Werner. Truck empire ain't no fluke!
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Jan 14, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. We've ALL seen this before...stupid upper middle class white kid goes into the wrong'hood to score and gets his dad's Audi jacked and his ass kicked...but he gets lucky and lives, but of course omits the bit about the drug deal. He was robbed for no damn reason by mean black men...or Mexicans. I strongly suspect that this never happened at all, that it's merely a twist on the Nigerian scam..."this is your brother Bob, and I need money to get home from London". If it DID happen, it was a drug deal gone sideways...sharing a beer with the locals..."hey can we score some....." and there you go. Their story doesn't pass my sniff test.

On a more serious note...on Christmas Eve some idiot pulled out in front of me at an intersection and I t-boned him, totaling my vehicle. Now, I know how you all love dogs, and it would be a shame, if not borderline in humane for my girlfriends idiot Maltese to ride to the beach in Pacifica in the back of an old truck. So, I urge you to visit www.pleasebuyBlackiesowneranewAudiAllroad.com. I assure you, it's just as valid a cause as the Peruvian scammers, except that I really will buy a new Allroad if enough of you are gullible enough to send me $60K.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 19, 2013 - 01:33am PT
This is the way kickstarter is suppose to work. "My name is Bar..."

http://www.kickstarter.com.funnyordie.com/projects/83719047/sex-tape#



pvalchev

Social climber
Mountain View, CA / Calgary, AB
Jan 27, 2013 - 03:20am PT
I heard they were on the today show and just found it (3-4min):
hulu link
QITNL

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 03:32am PT
Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed,
A poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed.
Then one day he was trekking through Peru,
Came back with a thread about a bunch of boobs.

Ourselves, that is. White gold, Texas tacos.

Well the next thing you know, Jed's an Internet star,
Kinfolk said "Jed, here's a brand new car!"
"The Today Show is the place that you ought to be!"
So they loaded up their jet and flew to NYC.

K-E-Y, that is. M-O-U-S-E.

Well now it's time to say goodbye to Jed and all his kin.
And we would like to thank these folks for kindly posting in.
If they should ever stray back into our locality,
They'll get another heaping helping of our insecurity.

Off-season, this is. Set a spell, take your boots off.

Y'all come back now, y'hear?
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