help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 401 - 420 of total 1105 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
No worries. Like Blahblah said - none of us know what happened there. And really, it doesn't matter in some ways. They got whooped up on and that is a drag. Did they start it? Who knows. Were they purely innocent? Who knows. Were they purely guilty? Who knows.

I don't have a dog in the race, but as I noted above, the asking for money for luxury items turns me off. Maybe the fund was started without their knowledge. If so, that is uncool (and unethical imo) of someone to do that! If someone did that on my behalf, I would state that publicly and return that money ASAP.

That has not happened however. But they are not me and that's okay. That is the only part that turns me off about their behavior. They are not *victims* of un-asked-for-money falling into their lap (!!Someone else set up the fund, it's not our fault!!!). They cannot honestly say "we didn't ask for it so it's not our fault" "but hey let's finish our trip maybe because of it" at the same time imo.

Keep in mind, this is only my opinion which is worth nothing in the scheme of things.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
i think i mentioned this a few pages back: i wouldn't have minded contributing to a fund for medical/dental/mental health assistance but i wouldn't want to pay to replace the latest smartphone. i won't even pay for a smartphone for myself.

furthermore, i understand not wanting to turn back at this point in time but man... i sure wouldn't feel right about continuing on someone else's dime, possibly donated without knowing i planned on using it to travel more instead of returning home for health care.

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
And really, it doesn't matter in some ways.

Yeah, but in some ways it does. If someone is unfairly brutalized, then isn't it fair to ask for donatations?

And, if someone wasn't, then isn't it abominable to ask for them?

slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
^^^^^ Yup, Crimpie. In total agreement as far as the funds. They can certainly turn it down even if they didn't set up fundraising in the first place. Pretty lame if they're taking money to buy replacement luxuries, if that is happening. Not so lame if they use that money for medical or travel expenses back home, not to continue the trip. All my opinion, of course.

The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Agreed T*R.

And ZBrown, I also think it matters in this way: IF the three were in the wrong, then it's inappropriate to demonize the people in that village, or the people of Peru. Going public could have terrible consequences for those there both personally and economically.

edit:
If someone is unfairly brutalized, then isn't it fair to ask for donations?

I think it's fine if someone asks for help for healthcare issues. Everyone can then contribute as they see fit. I think that is the case whether it was an unfair brutalization or not. People can choose what to do based on the case. But asking for help for equipment and things like that...that is not appropriate imo even if they were brutalized unfairly. Some people may still step up and help. Others not. Others mileage may vary.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Maybe the fund was started without their knowledge. If so, that is uncool (and unethical imo) of someone to do that! If someone did that on my behalf, I would state that publicly and return that money ASAP.

-unless that someone had the money go straight into their own PayPal account instead of yours. ;-)
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Pretty lame if they're taking money to buy replacement luxuries, if that is happening.

Slayton - they noted that they replaced their laptop with 5k already.

edit:

The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.

Agreed. And I'll add this change:

The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals and the Peruvians, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.
chichalimona

Social climber
baltimore
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
crimpergirl, i agree with you. what's at stake here is not really who's right or who's wrong. who asked for money for what. i'm not interested in judging people's personal decisions during or after a trauma. what the bigger issue is--as you say--is that going public with only one side of the story has created a slew of negative, and prejudiced responses not only to the people in that specific town, pallca, but also in small andean villages in general, and even peru. i have seen some forum comments saying things like "oh man, i will never go to a third world country!" i would hate for the ultimate outcome of all of this to be to reinforce stereotypes and impede future cross-cultural exchanges...

i don't think there is a "right" side of the story here. to me, it seems like there are victims on all sides of this horrific cultural misunderstanding. it is unfortunate that the way power dynamics work, that only the wolfroms' story is being heard!!

http://chichalimona.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-really-happened-in-ocongate.html
WBraun

climber
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
When those people eventually come back from Peru they will probably start throwing rocks at the SuperTopo people for talking sh!t about them .....

:-)
Guernica

climber
right there, right then
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
Chichalimona- without a doubt, the coolest and most alliterative username on here. My compliments!

Carry on.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
chichalimona-

Good editorial at several levels.



Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Slayton - they noted that they replaced their laptop with 5k already.

They spent 5K on a laptop?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
I can't find now where I read that. Thought it was in their blog, but don't see it now. Maybe it was upthread.

I could be wrong, but I am certain I read it somewhere.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
I appreciate your post and attempt at starting a dialogue Chicha. What other Spanish Language sources apart from the one I found earlier are there that deal with this incident? Peruvian blogs/newspapers with a non-racist slant? Can you point us in any direction?

-Pat
chichalimona

Social climber
baltimore
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
hey pat,

most of the stuff coming out of peru is objective, not taking sides. most articles claim that the people of pallca thought they tourists were cattle rustlers, which seems unlikely, but most likely implies that they were at least perceived as a threat. headlines are pretty much the same across the board: tourists attacked by comuneros. here are a few links:

http://www.radiosicuani.org.pe/nacional/item/168-turistas-norteamericanos-fueron-agredidos-por-comuneros-de-pallca-en-quispicanchi.html

http://www.meganoticias.net/cusco-turistas-estadounidenses-fueron-golpeados-por-campesinos-de-ocongate/

http://www.aatccusco.com/boletin.php

i haven't had any luck finding blogs.

in general, this is not making news in cusco the way it is here. the story of a lost brasilian tourist is currently making more headlines in peru.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Just got time to read the blog post.

Something funny about this. Seems bogus. Very similar to weak phishing attempts I have seen.


Why not just get money from relatives?

If the were real, it would be a major front page news item in the media. Good Morning America could fly them back and pay all their bills to scoop this story.


Pictures of the mayhem would be worth a fortune.



Bogus!
sullly

Trad climber
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Wbraun with another classic. If they do throw rocks at us, we can fend them off with bear spray (whatever the hell that is).

What gets me are too many calls for funds at once on ST. Now a member - for two days - plants this story. Has anyone from ST contibuted? It comes on the heels of Ms. Goodsit's fund for Largo. As Russ pointed out, a fest in J Tree for Largo is far less suspicious as a money raiser than a new member soliciting donations.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
i really, really, don't need or want to see photos of people who have been bruised and battered. i hope they DON'T post photos.
John M

climber
Jan 6, 2013 - 06:08pm PT

most of the stuff coming out of peru is objective, not taking sides. most articles claim that the people of pallca thought they tourists were cattle rustlers, which seems unlikely, but most likely implies that they were at least perceived as a threat. headlines are pretty much the same across the board: tourists attacked by comuneros. here are a few links:
:

Thank you. I appreciate hearing the the people of Peru don't appear to be buying the notion that the villagers thought that they were cattle rustlers.

slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 6, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
Crimps, I like the change and wholeheartedly agree.

Haven't seen that info on the laptop but, again, if true, totally lame.

Cheers.
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