help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 02:36am PT
Drew, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and well worded intentions. However I think you're off base.

There's enough info out there now to make their claims VERY suspect.

"Entitlement is an entrenched problem in our society that I doubt we can solve here and now."

Umm...parking on indigenous folks' land, refusing to give them documentation, pepper spraying locals and trying to bulldoze over locals building roadblocks...you're not going to have a positive result from this. They handled this situation in the worst ways possible. Entitlement was a core problem of this incident as it was reported.

mechrist, agreed and you're right
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 7, 2013 - 04:00am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?dcid=Ozk-NDc3JSUi

Are you related to Krista Goodsitt by any chance?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 7, 2013 - 06:53am PT
just tends to confirm that the villagers are sticking to their story,

Blahblah, don't you mean travelers?


and also a quick fading of the 15 minutes fame

Happiegrrrl, amen to that
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 7, 2013 - 07:24am PT
Riley,

What's the point of scouring the Internet for stupid opinions and troll posts and collecting them here?
Bargainhunter

climber
Jan 7, 2013 - 08:25am PT
What Derrell Licht said.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2013 - 08:26am PT
where is the OP. Patrick Compton these days?

Lurking my own post.

Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone on here has one.

Fun to watch. Fascinating how many like to criticize the travelers for their belongings and how they acted. Most people reading this would have taken patagucci sh#t, iPhones and pads and reacted to aggression with fear and responded with aggression, just like they did.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 7, 2013 - 08:27am PT
Slayton and others. Perhaps I myself am guilty of being subjective concerning this issue, and even judgmental. It’s not like I despise these three people. But what gets my goat is the crassness in the way they have been trying to raise funds, and not only for their troubles in Peru.

It seems to me, 'seems' I repeat, that they have been wanting people to pay for their holiday, ie a free camper van, is that true? If there was sponsorship involved, okay, but I wonder…

As for their story, something doesn’t sit right with me.

As I mentioned before, I’d like to hear the other side of the story, if possible.

I posted earlier that if I had the resources that a) I could get someone to look after Jennie to b) travel to Peru to c) find an interpreter/local to d) interview the villagers to e) see what their side of the story is… there just about always are two sides (if not more) to a story.

Not blowing my own horn but I have interviewed presidents and prime ministers, captains of industry, union leaders, celebrities, and just ‘regular’ people. I have always strived to be objective in my interviews. That said I have had (dickhead) editors change my copy to their taste/liking/slant. I am never happy with that. I am an experienced interviewer.

There must be some journalist in Peru who could go to the village and interview the villagers. Perhaps there has been such an interview, but I have yet to find it.

The links by chichalimona explains some

http://chichalimona.blogspot.ie/2013/01/what-really-happened-in-ocongate.html

http://www.radiosicuani.org.pe/nacional/item/168-turistas-norteamericanos-fueron-agredidos-por-comuneros-de-pallca-en-quispicanchi.html

http://www.meganoticias.net/cusco-turistas-estadounidenses-fueron-golpeados-por-campesinos-de-ocongate/

http://www.aatccusco.com/boletin.php


Though my Spanish is very rusty.

My gut feeling tells me that there is more to this story than the three travelers are telling.

Cheers, and safe climbing, wherever you are.

Patrick
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 7, 2013 - 08:45am PT
Riley,

Those first quotes brought to light some interesting original material, particularly Jed's alleged intercepted Facebook messages.

The second ones do in fact illustrate that there are stupid people and trolls on the Internet, but if someone doesn't already know that I don't think there's much point in devoting part of this thread to convincing them.

Just my opinion, though, thanks for explaining!
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 7, 2013 - 08:59am PT
There is an element about the three travelers and their story that reminds me of the inexperienced people who can afford to buy a ticket to climb Everest. They crave the adventure but have no idea what they are really getting into.
.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 7, 2013 - 09:19am PT
Credit: Don Paul
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 7, 2013 - 09:35am PT
Port-a-John
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 7, 2013 - 09:53am PT
ROTFLOL Don Paul, great post.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:30am PT
Well when comments like wanting to go into the village with AK-47s or nukes are posted it certainly is an insight into a twisted thinking that is a bit too common.
Gimp

Trad climber
Grand Junction
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:42am PT
Just got back 36 hours ago from my 11th trip to south america. Fun place but unless you are in a park situation like Los Glaciers or Torres del Paine I think it is always best to assume someone will want to be paid to camp anywhere below the snow line (particularly in Bolivia or Peru in my experience). Best to be proactive and seek permission and usually offer to not only pay but to also hire a local as a guard as a token of good will if nothing else.
Steve
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:46am PT
yes philo, because clearly internet comments are insight into the most reasonable sect of society...especially on news articles.

That is not what I am saying.
Why are you making that assessment?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:51am PT
So the F what? Why does it matter to you?

Maybe because people want to know something about the guys that are asking them for money. It's not as though people haven't gotten a little thick skinned about plays for money that they haven't got.....
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Question for Patrick Compton.

The three have maintained that they didn't set up the donation sites and they did not ask for any funds. So is it correct to assume they didn't ask you to post this thread asking for funds (the link to donating) to help the climbers?

If so, do you worry they'll throw you under the bus for doing this like they did the others who asked for funds?

I ask with genuine curiosity and no animosity toward you or your having posted this.

edit: corrected OP's name from Pat to Patrick. Sorry about that!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:59am PT
OP (Patrick Compton) wrote:

Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone on here has one.

Fun to watch. Fascinating how many like to criticize the travelers for their belongings and how they acted. Most people reading this would have taken patagucci sh#t, iPhones and pads and reacted to aggression with fear and responded with aggression, just like they did.

Yes, everyone has an opinion, and you have been around the internet long enough to know that posting a thread in the manner you did would bring them out. You posted no connective information, such as "These guys are cousins of my friend" or "I climbed with this guy last year" or "I've been following the blog..."

You posted an incendiary threat title with a link, one that didn't actually click through, if I recall, and nothing more.


***

As for you own opinion(hmmm....) that most here would have behaved in the same way, it's likely not true.

MOST people here are pretty aware that when traveling in remote regions, one should educate themselves appropriately and act in accordance with local customs. I can't for the life of me imagine snapping pictures of a travel partner in markets where we are getting the stinkeye and thinking that makes for an appropriate blog photo.


I haven't traveled much, and never for adventure. But a few years ago my friends suggested we drive down into Mexico (we were in the southwest for winter) and I totally balked at the idea. There was no way I was about to jump in my van and tourist around. And my van was a rolling metal leper(rusty as hell).

If even someone who hasn't even considered travel in Central/South America knows they need keep a respectful, low profile and even with taking care knows they are at risk - oughtn't a group who has planned such a trip for years(as their blog mentioned) have known how to manage themselves?

Looking at the several posts with images I saw from the blog, it appeared to me that these people were very sheltered from being immersed in the cultures and locales they vacationed through.


I think these people will likely have the Aron Ralston experience, wherein after some time spent processing the events which led to their epic, they see that in fact they were completely responsible for it's making.
gimmeslack

Trad climber
VA
Jan 7, 2013 - 11:03am PT
I'd like to offer a little cultural/language clarification:
Small (rural) communities in Latin America often have their own local 'government' in the form of an 'Asociacion' and it typically has elected officers who are prominent members of the community. It would actually be unusual for a rural community to have any constabulary, and it would be very appropriate for the 'Presidente' (of the Asociacion) to be summoned in the night, to investigate potential crime or other issue (trespassing etc.).

While I find it very sad that things went bad so quickly, I also think that there is an underlying thread of cultural arrogance and naivete, which likely contributed to the unfortunate outcome.

Most of all, I find it sad to read the ensuing spray-fest here and elsewhere... I've backpacked and traveled using 'local' transpo in very remote Peruvian areas(and elsewhere in SA and CA), and have only found it to be one of my most memorable (in every positive sense of the word) travel experiences. Interestingly, although I am fully bilingual, I don't speak a word of Quechua, and many of those places I've visited were Quechua-only. But if approached by a legit looking group of people (who probably did speak some Spanish), I would certainly have started by agreeing to identify myself in some way (always carry photocopy of passport).

There is crime everywhere, but I think this was a cultural impasse which quickly escalated into a mini-war - with both sides to blame.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 7, 2013 - 11:07am PT
Crimpie, I remember reading that too about the laptop.

John M., perhaps you missed this post from chichalimona

I should clarify that the objective info is coming from the news articles. There are certainly horrific racist comments in response to those news articles! There are also tempered responses. There are also responses leaning in the opposite direction, applauding the people in Pallca and condemning the tourists. It's across the board on opinions no matter where you are!!


Spider Savage, my exact thoughts

t*r, whether you'd like it or not, some photos of physical injuries would go a long way to dispelling the disbelief that some people have.
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