help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 381 - 400 of total 964 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
t*r, if there were any gruesome photos of this and the injuries they sustained, it would be all over the internet by now. Every major media source is checking on this story. The UK Daily Mail alone has been looking into pictures to go along with this incident. Hospitals would have the photos and those that work there would easily sell them to a Western media outlet for great money.

They are reporting on an international incident and want proof of what went down. Which is why this story has not gained legs in the world media. Initial reports from what they claimed yes, follow up with proof of it, no.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
"And one more thing: If this terrible life and death experience would happen to me and my wife and my sister - it would be so traumatic that at first possible chance we all run back home, next day.
So if they remained there, collecting money, posting on blogs - it implies for me that their traumatic experience was not so dramatic as they try to make it to be."

Bingo Alexey! I said the same thing just upthread.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
So, these ugly Americans, at worst, defraud some money fat idiots and enrage a bunch of myopic online wankers while continuing to live the dream. Respect.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:12am PT
4 days later and STILL knott all over the international media.

I think it's official.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:12am PT
Has anyone here an opinion on the massive die-off of dolphins and penguins in Peru? Could there be a tie-in?

http://www.sott.net/article/245836-Dolphin-Deaths-in-Peru-The-Mystery-Deepens

BTW Crimpie. I would agree that donations would be appropriate for medical needs and not for gadgets. For those they should contact their homeowners insurance company.







The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:19am PT
stzzo, they said they bought a new laptop. They weren't sitting in an internet cafe posting on an hourly rate basis.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I know this.

My point was that a new laptop at Cuzco prices was likely not necessary to get the story out. To get the story out, an Internet cafe would likely have sufficed.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:20am PT
The single most obvious feature of this story is that nothing has been verified. At least as told here on this thread. I havn't bothered exploring further elsewhere. Even the event itself seems at least a little doubtful in spots. Certainly the soliciting of funds and for what purpose they are intended has not been explained at all or verified as legitimate.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out eventually that it is all legitimate but at this point it would be equally likely to find out that it is not or at least misrepresented in purpose. I honestly don't see the point of even paying attention until the proponents begin to explain themselves a bit better.

Its worth noting that others have gone down this sort of road, most likely with perfectly good and honorable intentions but have totally dropped the ball mostly with other peoples money.

Greg Mortenson comes to mind. Lance Armstrong too.

I would never put a cent into anything like this without a high degree of verification, transparency and accountability.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:25am PT
Where is the OP Patrick Compton these days?
T H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:38am PT
At an ATM somewhere in South America, laughing his ass off.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:43am PT
Good one!
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:44am PT
if there were any gruesome photos of this and the injuries they sustained, it would be all over the internet by now.


El Presidente is the one with the mustache.
El Presidente is the one with the mustache.
Credit: crunch

pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:48am PT
Thanks for the kind words Crimper!

Here is one last wild conjecture and thoughts about what happened and then I have to move on.

Some here and on other sites completely reject that this happened. Based on what I have read, and my own experiences living in Mexico I believe it did. Here is one way it could have easily gone down:

The three gringos drive up to camp for the night at what looks like a deserted spot. Tired they sit down and break out some beer. Half mile a way, up the hill, some villagers, also having a beer after a long day see an odd flashy truck pull on to their land. Having had some recent problems with thieves (maybe horse?) two of them elect to go down and see what is going on. Despite their simmering anger over recent events they try to stay friendly and greet the gringos not knowing who they are or where they came from. They only notice they are foreign which just makes them more suspicious. The gringos start saying something like this, "campo aqui?" to which the villagers quizically reply "Si, este es un campo, claro." All seems good to the gringos, but of course it is not at all.

Back at the village the villagers spread the word the thieves are back, and El Presidente (the Mexicans love nicknames, is it the same in Peru?) gets involved because he is responsible for this village given the police never drop by. Fuming they walk down to the gringos who, being foreign, probably only makes them more deserving of some sort of questioning. The mood is changing and the gringos can feel it. Someone logically demands papers and the gringos think, partly because of the devolving mood, that this is an extortion attempt. They refuse. The villagers see them as more and more suspicious by the minute because of this and get angrier. Scared and getting into flight mode the gringos push their way back to the car which only angers the villagers more who now absolutely must see them detained (they are after all acting guilty). The rest is history with a 10 minute chase seeming like 30 because they are terrified. The gringos experience frontier apprehension and justice, El Presidente realizes his mistake but is unable to convince some of the rest,and the most cultural of cultural experiences results.

On a side note, 20-30 people does not usually a village make (think 100). The romantic in me likes to think a few of the locals did indeed wait this one out, or maybe it got lost in translation that some pleaded their innocence but maybe I am wrong. It doesn't really take an ugly American to have this happen, although granted the three fit the bill to a certain degree and it did not help them.

I really feel for these three despite the bad decisions they may have made. If the story checks out they were, and continue to be innocent of what happened to them. America seems to have taken a turn for the worse lately, and it hit really close to home for me recently. Three months ago I would be joining in the chorus of naysayers. It sucks imagining the horror of the last moments on earth of someone you know, I know I am not alone here. I visited Fero's bar and Grill in Denver two weeks after my friends murder. Staring inside the window I got a strong wiff of a sickly sweet smell, burnt flesh, and I can't get it out of my mind. Did these three almost travel a similar path?

I wish these three the best with what they have to endure. I hope they make the right decision with their money when their lives are stabilized. Give them time. Given the supposed wealth of empathy we have gained in our travels, are we not still being the same old impatient judgmental Americans at heart when dealing with our own?

-Pat
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:51am PT
Only 471 posts...
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:55am PT
no kidding. This is the part that resonates for me


If the story checks out


Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:01am PT
Then don't post t*r.

I did the opposite. I stayed out of this until I've seen enough information from both sides to want to post.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:06am PT
Me too, interested to see how this pans out, sorry to keep stirring the pot.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Its a little more logical and isn't quite as obviously biased towards evil Americans as the expatperu thing was. That was obvious conjecture too, and you know it.

Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:22am PT
My name is Jennifer Lynne Wolfrom. I am a US citizen, a resident of the state of Wyoming, ... my brother (Joseph Palmer Wolfrom III), and my sister in law (Meghan Moore Doherty).


Okay,

#1. Americans DON'T use their middle names. We keep them secret and usually don't like them.


#2. We don't bother telling our citizenship. We just assume anyone reading with think we are Americans.


I could go on and on.



As far as these hoaxes go, this one is very well prepared and very well written. They have probably made out pretty well for their effort. I expect this whole thing was put up by some clever Nigerians.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:26am PT
But, Spidey, many Nigerians are educated in England and can be excused such
excesses in the pursuit of gravitas.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 7, 2013 - 02:01am PT
Not a hoax.

Nice work, pat. Your version of events is probably very, very close.

Now in a local Peruvian newspaper, though not exactly front-page news:

http://elcomercio.pe/actualidad/1518317/noticia-cusco-turistas-estadounidenses-fueron-agredidos-campesinos-ocongate

Google's translation:

A group of American tourists was attacked by several residents of the rural community of Pallca, in the district of Ocongate Quispicanchi province, Cusco, the night of December 29.

The correspondent of The Trade Area, Ralph Zapata, reported that the Department of Foreign Trade and Tourism of Cusco confirmed the beating from information from Ocongate police station, but said that did not enter any formal complaint at the above address .

Apparently, tourists entered the community, were not identified and there were problems with the language. Farmers have mistaken the rustlers.

One side of the story is told by Jennifer Lynne Wolfrom, one of the assaulted, in a blog. She noticed that other people are brutally beaten Palmer Joseph Doherty Wolfrom and Meghan Moore.

According to chronicles, were also stripped of their documents and belongings valued at thousands of dollars. The publication says it all happened after they tried to park your vehicle.

He claims that, without further explanation, the unit was locked and suddenly began to rain stones. Subsequently, although the occupants abandoned the truck, the persecution continued.

"There were at least 30 people and chased us throwing stones [...] We whipped and beaten for several hours between interrogation sessions," he says. It is not known if people arrested.
Messages 381 - 400 of total 964 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews