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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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very sad story; and I'm within weeks of starting a bike ride across South America. Wake up notice. (by the way, I've been climbing in that exact region some decades ago)
But as to the why, I'm no Peruvian expert, but for 30 years the Shinning Path and the (US supported) central government have been at war in those parts. If the shinning path comes into a village and you don't feed them, they shoot all the men in the village. If you do feed them the gov forces come into town and shoot all the men. Neutrals can't win.
In addition, many villages were instructed by government forces to create "self defense" leagues, to keep the Shinning Path out of their towns. Clearly the victims are neither in this case, but I can sort of understand the paranoia infecting the villagers. In retrospect, accepting the absolute authority of the gang and the presidente may have led to less horrible outcome. Yes they are ignorant villagers, they've been harassed by outsiders for decades, there no doubt was a touch of mob madness involved. But these people have to dig in the mud for 1" diameter potatoes to feed their children. I wouldn't demonize them.
again, very sad.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Good luck on the bike trip mike. Can't wait to see/hear about it.
I was under the impression that the Shining Path hadn't been much of an issue for the last 10 years or so.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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It was getting dark and we knew that driving in the dark was dangerous ...
Dumbasses
Some truth in this. If driving is "dangerous", surely stopping is worse?
And, once the locals began behaving suspiciously, why did they decide to drive farther UP the side road they were on, instead of hightailing it back to the main road?
But, they could hardly have expected what was in store, sounds horrific, Deliverance done for real. Hope the victims recover okay from their injuries.
Have to wonder what the villagers' story would be. Sounds awful organized for a simple car-jacking robbery. Maybe the village had experienced violence and crime from out-of-towners, were expecting more trouble, and were alert and ready to fight back? Their response sounds like some kind of third-world Neighborhood Watch scenario.
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John M
climber
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A village just doesn't attack you and go crazy like that for no reason..
Yes and no.. I could believe that these people didn't do anything to warrant this attack. There are plenty of stories of crazy people becoming the bully leaders of communities. Bullies don't need a reason, other then you happened by. The leader of this community sounds like a bully.
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John M
climber
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Some truth in this. If driving is "dangerous", surely stopping is worse?
Climbing is dangerous, stopping is worse. heh heh..
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John M
climber
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They had already been physically attacked when the pepper spray was sprayed.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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these people have to dig in the mud for 1" diameter potatoes to feed their children. This might be true, but I do like how they get to run around with our cell phones.
I wonder who got the nano-puffs?
This whole incident really comes down to that fancy truck, their cloths and the villagers wanting a piece of it.
Latin America = giant sh#t hole.
In the best case, always having to think about how the next person is going to try to get your money and how you're going to try to prevent it - non-fuking stop 24/7 game until you're on a plane out of the country - it gets old.
No thanks - did some trips, saw everything I wanted to see, never going back.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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They made several mistakes in my reading of their story. However, my guess is my Peruvian friends are not proud of their countrymen. TY
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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The people were trying to f*#k with them. Why else would they say it's OK to park, and then start blowing the whistles etc.? Clearly it was a case of mass robbery.
I guess their radar wasn't quite sharp enough for that situation.
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John M
climber
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I would like to hear what you think their mistakes were.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Maybe the village had experienced violence and crime from out-of-towners, were expecting more trouble, and were alert and ready to fight back? Their response sounds like some kind of third-world Neighborhood Watch scenario. Yeah, that sounds plausible--you really have to watch it when you see a group consisting of 1 guy and two girls masquerading as being on a long camping trip roll into your town--who knows what havoc they could wreak? Sending in the two girls would be a good "advance scouting team" for the invaders waiting in the wings.
Always interesting (if fairly predictable) to see people's reactions to these types of things. Everything from the "the ugly Americans started it" (seemingly implausible if you believe the account, and if you don't believe it, how could you have any opinion at all?) to the "this is from centuries of gringo oppression."
I'm of the I'm-surprised-this-doesn't-happen-more-often school, but I freely admit that is pure conjecture.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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I think the proper protocol is to hire a local guide, to take you through the rough areas. Not all Peruvian guides are women, but these are.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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I think the proper protocol is to hire a local guide, to take you through the rough areas. Have fun negotiating costs on that one, and see what path you take and who you meet along the way and what the police think when they find out your "tour guide" from two villages away isn't officially registered locally in some weird way.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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"I think the proper protocol is to hire a local guide, to take you through the rough areas."
Yeah, that's a tough one when you're driving. Walking, maybe.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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It's interesting that the majority (by far) of anthropologists never get attacked and/or robbed. An acquaintance of mine lived with modern day (automatic weapons equipped) headhunters in the Phillipines, never got held up once.
See for example
Cultural Anthropology: An Applied Perspective
Gary Ferraro
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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When I was in Argentina two years ago we met a bunch of people who had driven
all the way down there with no problems other than bad roads, etc. The
people in this story had too much Kumbaya in the gas tank and, at that,
were running on fumes.
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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I would have zero fears of visiting this village.
Me neither. In a gun truck.
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dave729
Sport climber
Placer
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our government is good at gifting attitude adjustment to places like that
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Gary
Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
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So why the Village of the Pitchfork People?
Who knows what the history of that village is.
A fellow worker of mine grew up in a small village in Yugoslavia. The Germans had not exactly been the most behaved guests during their stay in that village. He told me that shortly after the war some poor schmuck drove into the village in a Mercedes. He was pulled from his German car by a mob and beaten to death. His crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time in a German car.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Latin America = giant sh#t hole. In the best case, always having to think about how the next person is going to try to get your money and how you're going to try to prevent it - non-fuking stop 24/7 game until you're on a plane out of the country - it gets old. No thanks - did some trips, saw everything I wanted to see, never going back
exactly.
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