Interesting Topics on Evolution

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 321 - 340 of total 347 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
Mar 18, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
Did you say Cameroon? Your up Grug.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
That's an interesting abstract and discussion, cowpoke. I can't access the paper via google....any chance you could post the methods and possibly the results sections? Pretty please...DNA regulation and differential gene expression have always fascinated me.



-JR
cowpoke

climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
JR,
I have access to the pdf via my university, but for some reason it is not a version that can be saved (and it is a pain to cut and paste because the text is in narrow columns in the pub). I'd bet the first author would gladly email a reprint of the pdf, however. From the author note: Marilyn J. Essex, Department of Psychiatry, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, 6001 Research Park Boulevard, Madison, WI 53719. Electronic mail may be sent to mjessex@wisc.edu
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 18, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Hmm, the bottom of the US socioeconomic level is far more affluent than the middle class in most parts of the world. I wonder what you'd see in places that have refugee camps and starving people?
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Mar 18, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
Thanks, Cowpoke. I understand it's a pain in the ass to copy/paste. I'll email the author.



-JR
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 8, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
re: "sneaky f*#ker" strategy
re: how "wising up" in evolutionary theory might benefit you

http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2007/02/sneaky_f*#ker_t.html

http://www.newstatesman.com/society/2011/05/males-social-sex-idea-alpha

"The late John Maynard Smith took red deer as an example of where things go wrong. While the powerful males are busy rutting, many of the females slope off to have sex with the less macho males of the herd (Maynard Smith labelled them the "**sneaky f*#kers**").

Not to be missed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1SX4KYpelQ

Do you know any sneaky f*#kers?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 8, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
Candyman...

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 1, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Student Questioner: "I wanted to know if (1) you thought the society we are creating slows (undermines) the process of natural selection and (2) if you think that is a good or bad thing for our species."

Richard Dawkins: "To the extent that people are born who would not have been born under natural wild conditions, to the extent that medical science enables people to grow up and reproduce, to that extent genes are being put into the gene pool which would have been removed by natural selection in a wild state. I think that's pretty much inevitable. I don't think it's a bad thing. I like doctors, I like hospitals. I like the fact that, for children, it's quite difficult to die young nowadays and therefore if you want to reproduce you probably can. There was a time in the 1920s and 1930s when everybody was very worried about the dysgenic effects of modern medicine. I think it's something that we live with, and I am, on balance, happy to live with it. I would not like to live in a world in which children were dying of diseases which could be cured, so I'm not in favor of worrying about the dysgenic effects of modern medicine."

Michael Shermer Richard Dawkins Interview
An Appetite for Wonder, Cal Tech 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0cRIrOOiA

..

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 3, 2013 - 11:10am PT
re: dysgenic effects on gene pool resulting from use of technology

Is there now something of a race between ever increasing dysgenic effects and ever improving technology?

Audience Question: This is on the interplay between technology and evolution. Do you think our adaptability or survivability are at risk from our use of technology? What do you think of technology that may some day entrap us? like by permitting bad genes in increasing numbers of people. How do we reverse that or deal with that? Is there any alternative?

Richard Dawkins: Medical science is allowing bad genes to propagate in the population. Yes it is. But on balance, I don't deplore it. I think it's worth it. In the case of eyesight and eyeglasses, as long as we have the technology to go on making glasses, it will probably be okay. It's true that if that were wiped out then that would be serious. Imagine getting rid of spectacles. Anybody over the age of about 45 would no longer be able to read. They wouldn't be able to play a part in civilized life. So we do indeed depend on technology. But it's getting better. I was talking only yesterday to an eye surgeon who was telling me about the wonderful techniques of using laser surgery to reshape the cornea so you don't need eyeglasses at all. We are getting better at those sorts of things. So technology is at present keeping up with the dysgenic effects of modern medicine.

..

In my view this is going to be one of the gravest problems future generations are going to face.

Damn you Second Law of Thermodynamics.

..

Cruel Scenario: Fossil fuels crash. Energy-dependent high technologies collapse. Finely-tuned complex societies collapse. Natural Selection hits gene pool with vengeance.
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
Nov 3, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
The thing about evolution and natural selection is that you don't know ahead of time, which genes will be most beneficial in the future. Some dimwit with bad eyesight might have the only gene that allows human survival of some future virus or germ.

Was there not a link earlier in this thread to studies indicating that increased population was accelerating human evolution/human variation? More population survival means more potential for genetic variation.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Nov 3, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
I wish I had wings

and gills

and a tail











and money!

:)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 4, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
On the evolution of tenacity in mice...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM6MNw7i6Ng

.....

Paul,

yeah, as you know, evolution of extremely large populations esp with a lot of variation to begin with (e.g., our anthropic one) would present with countless aspects, many being adaptive.



Still, the plight of dysgenic effects, due to rising of technology and the undermining of natural selection in ever softening climates, is real.
WBraun

climber
Nov 4, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
God is the original gene ......
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
Nov 5, 2013 - 03:35am PT
Hey Fructos,
That is a very persistent mouse in that video.

Which dysgenic effects do you think are real? I have not studied this at all, but a quick search seems to show mostly speculation. I see that Richard Lynn documents that childbirth rates are lower for highly intelligent people as compared to criminals and low intelligent populations.

This may be, and it may have social repercussions, but my question is, what genetic issues does this raise? How is this genetically harmful? Myself, I don't see the problem from a long term genetic aspect. Perhaps you can elaborate your thoughts on this.

Your cartoon points out that many people are becoming fatter as our TVs get skinnier, but you don't think this is a genetic issue do you? In a sense, it is a genetic issue with the TVs, since they are fundamentally changed from the older TVs, but the fat guy is just eating too much.

Are there any multigenerational studies of some animal, or plant population where providing a too easy environment leads to genetic changes that endangers the long term survival of that population?
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Nov 5, 2013 - 09:09am PT
but the fat guy is just eating too much.

That fat guy is programmed to eat too much. I haven't waded through this entire thread but an interesting topic on evolution will be the future ability to turn off specific genetic behaviors such that overeating becomes a thing of the past....and all the guys in the future will look like Matthew McConahey, all the womens will look like Farrah Fawcett, and live to 400 years. It's either that or a future of Idiocracy.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 5, 2013 - 09:22am PT
Farah Fawcet?



No, hermano. The future will not be so... monochrome. The future will be darker.



DMT

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:04am PT
Hey, I loved Logan's Run. A couple years ago, last time I watched, I googled the brunette, was happy to see she's aged well. If you have the dvd, York gives an excellent commentary of the film, btw.

...

Paul, interspersing that cartoon in the text was probably confusing, sorry. Cartoon was just funny. Regarding dysgenic effects, I used the term because Dawkins used it - so i'm not sure how google-worthy or precise it is or how often it's used by evolutionary scholars in e theory. There might be a better term, or terms, out there to describe the process or phenom. I think it's also used to counterpoint "eugenic." I think it's interesting what is deemed eugenic or dysgenic depends on pov. If it could talk, the ancestor of the eyeless cave salamander might say its progeny suffered "dysgenic effects" when they lost their eyes eking out existence in darkness. However, on the other hand, the progeny might not agree as the eyes in darkness weren't needed; they might counter with the argument, "We're not dysgenic at all, just more streamlined and efficient now!" lol.

Same with dodo bird. Its gene pool got soft in the flight department in the absence of selection pressure for flight (predators). (Same with the extinct solitaire, too, apparently.)



In our case, the human case, poor eyesight to hernias, eg, to perhaps autism associated disorders, might be examples.

In any case, I liked Dawkins' reply - it was certainly thought-provoking - that the interplay between easy softer environment, natural selection and technology was inevitable, is inevitable, in addition to unpredictable, something we have to live with, on balance a good thing (at least for us), and not really something to worry about on those grounds. A day at a time, or a generation at a time, and do your best and hope for the best. Much like our situation with global warming, I guess.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:10am PT
It's definitely something to worry about...

Humans HAVE stopped evolving.

However, they haven't stopped mutating. Technology seems to be prolonging the time spent mutating, with no added benefit to the species. This poses obvious problems, particularly if scarce (cultural) resources are to be used to stamp out an ever growing number of brush fires.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:13am PT
What I gathered from Dawkins, at least - Why worry about those things you can't change.

Everything's alright.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc

Till it isn't. ;)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 6, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
For the benefit of fellow evolutionary secular progressives, here's one more totally awesome Joe Rogan Sam Harris interview...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHBfB7usIcU

Joe Rogan,
"I've watched a lot of your videos on line, I've enjoyed every one of them, and I liken some of those debates you get into with those old Gracie in Action videos... For martial arts it's really brilliant stuff to watch cause until the Gracies came along nobody really knew that there was one guy out there that could just sort of manhandle people like that - strangle them and choke them - that there was one martial art that was so superior when it came to grappling situations, you'd almost feel bad for the guy getting strangled but not really. That's how I feel when I watch a lot of your debates."
"Well that's very high praise but I can tell you it's not as satisfying in the debate format as it is on the mat. Because no one ever taps. It's like you're fighting an army of zombies - they've lost but they can't be forced to admit that they've lost." (-Sam Harris)

lol


Gracie Jiu-Jitsu In Action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8jvy8XBsQk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kurwgdIcVIQ
Messages 321 - 340 of total 347 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews