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Trad climber
Dec 29, 2012 - 11:56am PT
Glad to hear some critical thinking going on. The man was good at what he did. But what was that? After days of 24 hour TV showing Star Wars missiles taking out scuds mid-flight it ends up it was all fake. There is doubt whether there was a single missle brought down. It's called propaganda. I call that unamerican. We the citizens have a right to know the truth. They work for us after all. At least they used to. I don't know what Normans role was in all this but - while he may have been shooting up bad guys - he sure as hell wasn't working for the good guys. Then there is viet nam; he saved his men while killing gooks. That's not a hero.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
ohw really...

Well hes ten thousand times more a man for doing what he did that our current president.

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
I didin't know Norman personally so no opinions happening there...People with bad tempers seem to have excessive self-importance issues which usually leads to mental abuse for others in contact with the ill-tempered person...How many innocent Americans have been sacrificed for Exxon-Mobils special interest...? RJ

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
You realize, Ron, that your comment doesn't make any sense, right?
The Warbler

the edge of America
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
Can a man who engineered so much death, suffering and destruction Rest In Peace?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
Why do some of you wish to portray him as an EXXON rep.. He wasnt.

Misplaced blame here from what i see. Are you going to dis on all the returning Vets from Afghanistan too? Or just any officer?

Personally, if i got stuck in a war,, i would want someone just like him in charge.

Yes weve been involved in actions, not wars, that are illegal, noneffective and a waste of lives all the way around. Yet NONE of that is the fault of Generals, Sergeants, or privates.

we now fly drones- and if your on the receiving end, they are the most dastardly and cowardly ways to offend those we fight and is just more fodder for hate. Much like installing the brotherhood in the ME against the wills of peoples there.

If you look back on all of this ,, Kuwait was the bright spot.

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
Can a man who engineered so much death, suffering and destruction Rest In Peace?

You know, I am not into the whole "war is good thing", but you have to consider, he was only doing his job
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Dec 29, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
Riley Wyna and Tony, thanks for those articles.

I never saw the general as anything but a service man. He was no hero to me, at least not in his later years. Devoted to his country and his men, but also a willing pawn of administrations and corporations, and if he didnít know that, he is no genius.

But he will be lionized, just like Reagan was (I try, but I still canít understand why Reagan was lionized upon his death, when looking at the overall picture, but then, I never liked him as governor of California either).

Oleí Norm was a soldier, nothing more, nothing less. And nothing wrong with that. But he usually toed the line, from what I can see.

My heroes?

My Uncle Bill Casey (Army), captured in North Africa, escaped from Nazi camp in Italy with two Canadian commandoes and made their way back to Allied (British) lines.

My Uncle Joe Sawyer (Marines), medals for the south Pacific but captured and suffered (along with so many other brave men) in Japanese POW camps.

Having just watched both a documentary on D-Day and the film The Longest Day, the men who landed on those beaches in Normandy are heroes.

The men of the Allied nations, in both the European and Pacific theaters, fighting fascism, they are heroes, especially those that gave their lives. Fascism that still exists in a number of guises.

And while not a hero, I am proud of his commitment. That is, my godson/nephew, Benjamin, who just did two tours in Afghanistan, a placed perhaps we should no longer be. He was in regular firefights, he didnít want to be there but it was his duty.

As well as men like USMC Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, who dared to speak up and challenge the establishment.

There are other military heroes in my eyes, but Schwarzkopf is not one of them.


Ron, you have some good things to say.

Cragman, you should have stated from the start that this thread was a memorial. I highly doubt any Taco Standers would protest at the grave of a soldier, so get off your high horse. If you think that Schwarzkopf was such a great man, okay, that is your opinion, to each their own.

Perhaps you should have titled the thread differently. And also, because your mentor was his cousin, is there some bias there? Just asking.

Some of you here are as bad as those whackjobs that picket soldiers funerals.

I find that quote highly offensive, I am not a whackjob (and I doubt the other Supertopians who question your hero's actions are whack jobs), just giving my opinion, or don't you like the First Amendment? So like I said, get off your high horse.

And Schwarzkopf was not "just some soldier", he had his hand deeply in both military and political dealings/decisions (some of which may have cost needless US and civilian deaths/maimings). And as US citizens we have a right to question somebody in such high authority and his actions (collusions?) in involving our country in questionable wars.

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Dec 29, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
Patrick Sawyer, please explain to me how a thread title that begins with Rest In Peace, could be construed as anything but a memorial thread.

Obviously, haters here never stop....even when a good man dies.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 29, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
Well hes ten thousand times more a man for doing what he did that our current president.

Ron, while I was going to be chiming in, basically on your side, with one sentence you stopped me cold.

Yep, there is absolutely no value to society to anyone who devotes his life to helping the poor, when he has the education and training to make the big bucks,eh? You want to spend your life beating the poor, and sullying the name of those who try to help them.

You total f*ck.
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