Discussion Topic |
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 27, 2012 - 07:25pm PT
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After 5 months , I have not recieved payment for photos.. anybody else ?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 27, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
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Are they answering the phone?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 27, 2012 - 07:27pm PT
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Are they still in print?
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
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Dec 27, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
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They've always paid me in a reasonable amount of time for an editorial magazine. Usually around the 2 to 3 month mark. I'm assuming you've followed up with the current editor via email and phone. Sending another invoice along with a w-9 seems to help as well.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 27, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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If it is any solace, I'm still waiting to get paid from Alpinist for a pic they ran of mine like 3 years ago. Hell, maybe even longer.
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Dougald
climber
CO
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Dec 27, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
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As the former editor of Climbing, now working part-time, I have already responded to Slabbo by email and at Mountain Project, where he originally posted on this topic. I fully understand that Climbing's slow payments are very frustrating, but the magazine always pays. As I explained to Slabbo, the accounting office is closed this week for the holidays. They will hear from me on Monday morning about his old invoice. In light of this fact, which he acknowledged in a grateful email, it's disappointing to see him continue this campaign.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 27, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
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Thanks for looking in on this thread, Dougald. And I sure understand your points just above, thanks. I am sure that Climbing Magazine is having a hard enough time as it is without a public pillory for slow payment. Best of luck on the magazine's much larger issue of merely surviving. Slabbo you might want to consider deleting your entire thread here.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 27, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
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They pay...every time they run the photo. The 2nd one is always a surprise:-)
Have you signed the release? Contacted them?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 27, 2012 - 11:15pm PT
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Couldn't be a lot of money for some pictures. I would be embarrassed to be playing the drama queen over it. Maybe he thinks it is good publicity. Hell yeah, all the climbing mags are going to want to do business with him.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Dec 27, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
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To me, it doesn't seem like Slabbo is the bad guy in this situation. Climbing didn't meet the payment terms to which they agreed. As I said on MP, IMHO Climbing / Dougald is way out of line. Pay the guy what you owe him and stop signing agreements that you know will not be honored.
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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Dec 27, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
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This mag has been dead to me for years. I could go on and on, but f-ckem.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 28, 2012 - 01:12am PT
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As near as I can tell most aspiring photographers will practically pay the mags to put their stuff in print. Dude should be grateful. In any event he just sh#t in his own nest.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2012 - 09:40am PT
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It is sort of funny following this thread as well as the same thread on MP.com It is sort of like watching Fox and CNN. Same story completely different drift.
Having to beg for money, of any amount, that is owed to you sucks.
Being broke and unable to pay all of your bills, sucks.
I've been there and I've been there, communication is the key, I hope it was tried prior to burning bridges. Although sometimes that is necessary too...
Prod.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Dec 28, 2012 - 10:18am PT
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Unlikely you will ever get published again.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2012 - 10:22am PT
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Unlikely you will ever get published again.
Because he stood up for himself the best way he knew how? BFD, and I disagree. If he has content that is deemed worthy than a reputable editor would be nuts to 1 not publish it, and 2 not pay for it.
Prod.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 28, 2012 - 10:33am PT
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Prod, there's a saying I like to tell myself sometimes in situations similar to these where it seems there is a rift and two sides can't agree on something.
Just because you CAN be offensive, doesn't mean you GET to. This is dishonest. Look, I'd love another climbing mag slag thread - those get fun, too, or I should say WOULD be fun if it was just a meaningless corporation that didn't hire a bunch of our friends. But Climbing magazine, for ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL its faults, employs a lot of amazing and awesome people who are trying with all their might to accomplish their dreams and make life happen. Yes, it is small and shitty and most of it is advertisements, but dammmit if James Lucas doesn't hit an article out of the park every once in a while.
I hope they pay you, I hope this gets resolved, and I hope people can find more civil, human ways to deal with their issues. It sounds like you've been in communication - be honest with yourself about how much of this is something that needs fixing, and how much of it is a personal vendetta.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 28, 2012 - 11:02am PT
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Good, Davis.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 28, 2012 - 11:17am PT
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If it is any solace, I'm still waiting to get paid from Alpinist for a pic they ran of mine like 3 years ago. Hell, maybe even longer.
Russ, wasn't that before they went out of business?
Might have got lost when the new owners took over
Jus sayin'
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2012 - 11:57am PT
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GDavis. This is not my fight, and I would also rather it was solved via good communication between the 2 parties as well. But to tell a guy he is wrong for standing up for what he is owed is wrong in my book. Granted there may well be circumstances that we are unaware of.
Cheers
Prod.
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Katie_I
Mountain climber
Wyoming
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:17pm PT
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I tried emailing Russ Walling through Supertopo, but I don't know whether the message worked or not--and I'm not sure how to pick up a Supertopo message if he did email me back (I'm not used to using the message system on the forum).
Perhaps he'll see this post and email me at my work address: katie@alpinist.com.
If Russ can let me know what issue of Alpinist his photo was in, I can look into it and follow up with him. In general, if you're an Alpinist contributor and you don't get paid within two months after publication, it's always best to email or call us directly--and it's fine to ask about payment sooner than that, too, if you're worried. (Last year, two contributors' checks got lost in the mail, and if they hadn't emailed me, we wouldn't have known that something had gone wrong.)
Our contributors work incredibly hard, and it's very important to us that they get paid.
Take care,
Katie Ives, editor
Alpinist Magazine
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
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Wow Katie it always amazes me how on top of this stuff you are.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Hi Katie,
Nothing yet in email but I'm out of the office for a while....
I do not know the issue # but if I recall it was a pic of Walt Shipley at a Bivy on Bad Sign. Something like this:
It was attributed to Troy Johnson and had the route wrong too. I'm not even sure how you guys got the pic, but it was not through me. I emailed at the time and was told it would be taken care of... It's not like I'm going hungry or anything, but it is a loose end.
Thanks
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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I'll tell you what doesn't pay...crime. Even just stealing a loaf of bread. See Les Miserables for a good example of this one.
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Katie_I
Mountain climber
Wyoming
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:40pm PT
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Thanks Russ,
I just found the photo. It was on Page 42 of Alpinist 25, Autumn 2008. Unfortunately the reason you didn't get paid is that the old owners of Alpinist went bankrupt in October 2008, soon after publishing that issue.
The new owners (who bought the magazine in December 2008 and who relaunched it in January 2009) can't pay off the old owners' debts (which were part of the bankruptcy process). I'm really sorry about that. I was hoping the photo was in one of the post-Alpinist 25 issues, which were published by the new owners.
Maybe I could send you something else in lieu of payment? A couple of free subscriptions? Send me an email to my katie@alpinist.com address?
Take care,
Katie
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
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Katie, you are top shelf!
I'll send you an email in a bit.
Thanks!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 28, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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Wow. Very prompt and responsible.
Reaffirms my belief that Alpinist, and it's employees, hold themselves to the highest standards.
Now if they would start printing letters again...I liked reading them.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Dec 28, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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It just shows you that there are two ways to do things; the Alpinist way or the other way... Talk about stepping up and taking care of business in a profession and kind way.
Glad I've been subscribing since issue "0" ...
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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Well that's interesting !!!!
drama Queen ? hardly. i asked if anyone else has had issues with late payments ? I guess the answer is Yes
Climbing solicited me for photos and interview for an article , I didn't just send stuff in.
Peter- why would i delete this thread ??
Maybe when I get paid
john
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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Tami i don't have a publishing career and yes I have contacted them several times. So the issue wasn't settled privately.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 28, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
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Katie seems like a gud person.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Dec 28, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
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I want some money too...
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 28, 2012 - 05:27pm PT
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I run a business, we pay within 30 days. How in the hell is slabbo to blame.
Feel sorry for the corporation but not the person. Funny as hell all of you defending the mag.
The owners must really be hurting...http://www.aimmedia.com/
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Dec 28, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
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So Russ, you should contact former Alpinist editor Christian Beckwith about your pay. He married his gynecologist and lives in Jackson so I’m sure the money’s there. It that fails go to Marc Iweing (sp?), the former publisher and on Forbs magazine’s 40 richest people under 40 list (f*#king 1%ers!). Katie’s ok but just a worker bee…
Salabo, keep pushing Climbing, it’s a sad, shabby little pamphlet but a deal’s a deal.
Mountain Gazette ripped me off once, printed something I sent in without telling me, after sending me a rejection. A friend told me how much he liked the piece a year later… So lame. I had my lawyer contact them and it worked like a charm.
Good luck,
Steve
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 28, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
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"He married his gynecologist"
I don't want this explained, do I?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 28, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
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Yeah, I'm confused.
Gender rearrangement?
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Dec 28, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
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Well, he married -a- gynecologist, the mags staff and all the locals just figured since ever time he went climbing he just cried about his sore vag that, that must be how they met. Go figure…
Guy had a sore vag every time I climbed with him.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 28, 2012 - 07:31pm PT
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Talk about stepping up and taking care of business in a profession and kind way.
Very true - well handled, Katie!
One thing I learned about business, when I was still on the receiving end, was that is is VERY poor business to screw with the money of those who your business depends on. I worked for a company in Hong Kong who had a US guy running the NYC office, and the guy was never able even to keep funds in the payroll account for our checks to clear regularly.
From that I fully understood just how wrong it is to abuse that relationship and I vowed never - EVER - to not pay monies as I had agreed to.
Lots of businesses operate in the "make them come asking" mode. I can't say whether the one in the topic of this thread is such an enterprise or not, but of those who do....it has nothing to do with managing cash flow; it is an unethical practice and it is as simple as that.
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SicMic
climber
two miles from Eldorado
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Dec 28, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
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This is pretty shocking because I'd alway heard that it was Crime that didn't pay.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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Dec 28, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
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i have some sick TR butt shots can i get them published?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 29, 2012 - 03:52am PT
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GDavis. This is not my fight, and I would also rather it was solved via good communication between the 2 parties as well. But to tell a guy he is wrong for standing up for what he is owed is wrong in my book. Granted there may well be circumstances that we are unaware of.
Cheers
Prod.
Prod, the issue that sticks out at me, is that AFTER posting on another forum, and AFTER getting a response from a person that will intervene when the office opens after the holiday vacation on his behalf, he THEN sets up THIS thread.
I mean, he has already gotten a promise to look into it, what does he expect to have happen in response to this thread?
That is not standing up for yourself, that is kicking the guy in the teeth who has offered to help you.
I'm not sure how that enhances one's standing. It doesn't with me.
Now if he posted if nothing happened as a result....ok.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Dec 29, 2012 - 03:56am PT
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Yay alpinist! The photos are ridiculous!!!! Good work Katie!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 29, 2012 - 10:06am PT
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Prod, the issue that sticks out at me, is that AFTER posting on another forum, and AFTER getting a response from a person that will intervene when the office opens after the holiday vacation on his behalf, he THEN sets up THIS thread.
I mean, he has already gotten a promise to look into it, what does he expect to have happen in response to this thread?
That is not standing up for yourself, that is kicking the guy in the teeth who has offered to help you.
I'm not sure how that enhances one's standing. It doesn't with me.
Now if he posted if nothing happened as a result....ok.
I understand your point, but a response from a x-editor and part time employee saying I'll look into it would not make me feel very warm fuzzy. I also look at this as a bit of a public service to other potential contributors.
Not that I'd have a piece to put in, but from this thread I know for sure I'd try to get my stuff in Alpinist over Climbing any day of the week.
The fact that no one from Climbing came in and did what Katie did, is a little surprising to me as well? Katie didn't say I'll look into it, she offered results. Classy.
Prod.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 29, 2012 - 10:55am PT
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As a professional photographer who has been stiffed many times and had images used without permission.. I can completly relate to the frustration. Not a good idea however to go public when you are still in contact with the editor..
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 29, 2012 - 10:58am PT
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I have had some luck in the past by re billing and tacking on a $35.00 late fee for ammount past due. Invoice every month and keep adding up the late fees and they usually pay. you never get the late fee but it gets their attention.
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Dec 29, 2012 - 11:01am PT
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DMT Wrote:
Ken M why do you fault the victim?
Same question here. He didn't get paid and got the run around for 5 months. Now, all a lot of posters on this site seem more than willing to give Climbing a free pass for their incredibly unprofessional behavior while faulting Slabbo for... not being nicer? Seriously, I don't understand how some of you people think.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 29, 2012 - 11:11am PT
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5 months is enough to piss you off pretty good.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 29, 2012 - 11:35am PT
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As a professional photographer who has been stiffed many times and had images used without permission
Do you put a watermark on your pics?
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Dec 29, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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The North Face took a photo of mine and stayed in contact for a bit then just stopped writing back.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 29, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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10b Duh.. click on my profile and check my photos. I had a lady @ a horse show try to sell me a book a few years ago and one of my shots was on the front cover with no credit. I looked through the book and the same shot was in the book as a chapter headline with my (C) on it. they actually photoshopped my (C) out of the shot on the front cover...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 29, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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Not that I'd have a piece to put in, but from this thread I know for sure I'd try to get my stuff in Alpinist over Climbing any day of the week.
The fact that no one from Climbing came in and did what Katie did, is a little surprising to me as well? Katie didn't say I'll look into it, she offered results. Classy.
Prod.
Prod, you seem to be a little stupid, today (not that today is different).
Someone from Climbing came in BEFORE this thread happened, but didn't make stuff happen as fast as Katie.
So let me give you a hypothetical. You work for a company. You see a complaint. You contact the person with a promise to help clear it up, in a time frame. The person thanks you for your help. They then proceed to trash your company on a new thread short of the timeframe agreed to.
Tell me how hard you are going to work to help that person?
Tell me how hard you are going to work to help them get further work?
Tell me how hard another similar company is going to be to enter into a relationship with that person?
Tell me what that person's word is worth?
"what goes around, comes around"
I think that first thread on the other site was fine. I think the second thread on this site, after accepting an offer of help, was an insult to the person who offered help, who was never responsible for the problem, and offered help in good faith. Instead, the intention was to cause harm to the magazine, which apparently the poster has accomplished.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 29, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
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Prod, you seem to be a little stupid, today (not that today is different).
Someone from Climbing came in BEFORE this thread happened, but didn't make stuff happen as fast as Katie.
So let me give you a hypothetical. You work for a company. You see a complaint. You contact the person with a promise to help clear it up, in a time frame. The person thanks you for your help. They then proceed to trash your company on a new thread short of the timeframe agreed to.
Tell me how hard you are going to work to help that person?
Tell me how hard you are going to work to help them get further work?
Tell me how hard another similar company is going to be to enter into a relationship with that person?
Tell me what that person's word is worth?
"what goes around, comes around"
I think that first thread on the other site was fine. I think the second thread on this site, after accepting an offer of help, was an insult to the person who offered help, who was never responsible for the problem, and offered help in good faith. Instead, the intention was to cause harm to the magazine, which apparently the poster has accomplished.
Ken,
I can assure you that I am not stupid.
Prod.
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